OEC lovers: define 'beautiful'

[diamondseeker2006]

alright, another couple of pictures

I love these! Reminds me so much of Dreamer's gorgeous setting!

 

[dianabarbara]

here!!!

http://youtu.be/eRifZec1Oxk

 

[chrono]

I cannot make anything out. Can't see which facet lights up and which one doesn't.

 

[dianabarbara]

done!

by the way, your earrings are to die for!!!!

I am afraid you sent the file to the owner of the earrings! I was trying to warn you that that was not my listing! My listing is on the same page below that and says "1.58 G VS1 GIA XXX..."!

But it will be better if you can post it here for everyone!

LOL!!! what a mess
I now imagine the owner of the earrings getting this very weird email from me

apologies, apologies..

 

[dianabarbara]

I cannot make anything out. Can't see which facet lights up and which one doesn't.

chrono, I agree the quality of the video is not at par with JBEG's.. and it was taken with a phone.
my general impression is very positive, though. I will ask for further pics.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Assuming there is a solid return policy, I would probably be curious enough to order it if I were you! Except I think you said you are not in the US, which complicates it greatly! I think someone said to maybe send it to an appraiser. But I am not sure I could commit to buying something without seeing it first.

 

[Circe]

DB, I'm pretty sure I've seen that ring in person recently ... and it is a wonderful performer, and eye-clean. If there are two out there like it with that beautiful gallery, I will be very surprised!

 

[dianabarbara]

Circe, have you been in NY recently?
and in what type of light have you seen it?

I will need some consultation on how practical tall settings are, but I fing it so so gorgeous.

This forum is just great! Incredible support and first hand information. Thank you Circe

 

[Circe]

Yep, I'm a NYer! I stopped by there a little while ago and saw it in the case and under the regular store lighting. The setting doesn't wear too tall in person, actually - no higher than a traditional 6-prong, anyway. Plus, the box setting makes it look HUGE. It presents visually as being at least as big as my two and a half carat.

I'll also say ... gorgeous as the stone is, the setting is genuinely one-of-a-kind. I've almost never seen such great workmanship. If you want more details, or to be sure it's the same without tipping off lurkers, you can hit ME through my LoupeTroop listing, too (I think I'm the only one with a locket up right now, which should make me easy to find).

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Well, you simply cannot beat having someone here who has physically seen the ring!!! That is amazing!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Buy that pic8 pic9 stone, assuming you can work out a fair price and appropriate return period. That video is poor, but it is enough to show me that its worth pursuing in combination with the photos. The pictures show the faceting clearly enough for me to tell (to my satisfaction) that the stone will look amazing. The video shows me a few things that confirm my beliefs -- like no dead center, a uniform look of light return (although lame in the video). And the mount is amazing. I adore that style. A mount like that is impossible to find these days, people do not know how to make them anymore and if they can they will cost $4k+. So, as a wearer of an octagonal style prong set bezel, I can tell you its worth a hefty sum to get one! Oh, and Circe is not exaggerationg on the size boost. My diamond looks exactly like Demelzas in person (set in a solitaire), and my stone is half a carat smaller!

Proof of the power of a bezel style mount:



And yes I worked in another chance to post a photo of my ring

ETA: Regaring ASET, I do think it correlates very well with actual physical apprearance of stones, which is the only reason I use my eyes to inspect the actual appearance of stones instead But I will say that it took me a year or more of study to train my eyes to be able to see cut quality in an old cut the way an ASET might, so for people newer to old cuts an ASET is a wonderful tool.

 

[Dreamer_D]

For edumacational purposes, I wanted to add that these three images, below, are all I would require to judge the cut on this stone as superb.

The left image is a real test, zoomed in and straight on. This image would reveal any red flags like obstruction, lazy under-table facets, leakage or poor optical symmetry. But instead it reveals wonderful patterning and no signs of any of the baddies.

The middle image shoes a moderate crown height which is desired to me in this make of old cut, and a very small table, I wager mid-40%. These are ideal.

The right image shows that the stone has great edge to edge brightness and a pleasing bold pattern.

Depending on price and other practical factors, I would buy this diamond based on these images. In a heartbeat.

ETA: To be clear, by "practical considerations" I mean: trusted vendor and buyer protections, return period, comfort with possibility of returning the diamond, and any other protective factors you require to buy. My opinion is based only of the cut of the stone, no other considerations, and I am not liable for the outcome of this if you pursue it in any way

 

[dianabarbara]

I stopped by there a little while ago and saw it in the case and under the regular store lighting. [...] you can hit ME through my LoupeTroop listing, too (I think I'm the only one with a locket up right now, which should make me easy to find).

Circe, this is so awesome!
I will send you a message tomorrow for some more details so happy you found me!!

 

[dianabarbara]

Buy that pic8 pic9 stone, assuming you can work out a fair price and appropriate return period. That video is poor, but it is enough to show me that its worth pursuing in combination with the photos. The pictures show the faceting clearly enough for me to tell (to my satisfaction) that the stone will look amazing. The video shows me a few things that confirm my beliefs -- like no dead center, a uniform look of light return (although lame in the video). And the mount is amazing. I adore that style. A mount like that is impossible to find these days, people do not know how to make them anymore and if they can they will cost $4k+. So, as a wearer of an octagonal style prong set bezel, I can tell you its worth a hefty sum to get one! Oh, and Circe is not exaggerationg on the size boost. My diamond looks exactly like Demelzas in person (set in a solitaire), and my stone is half a carat smaller!

Proof of the power of a bezel style mount:



And yes I worked in another chance to post a photo of my ring

ETA: Regaring ASET, I do think it correlates very well with actual physical apprearance of stones, which is the only reason I use my eyes to inspect the actual appearance of stones instead But I will say that it took me a year or more of study to train my eyes to be able to see cut quality in an old cut the way an ASET might, so for people newer to old cuts an ASET is a wonderful tool.

Dreamer, thanks so much for taking the time to share this knowledge with me. I really love the delicate work in the setting too and I have not seen many like this (and yours!) at all The price really does not seem much negotiable. Most I can do I think is to bring it to 16K. If the setting is worth 4k, there are still 12 to allocate to the stone. Would this be an appropriate/good price?

 

[dianabarbara]

For edumacational purposes, I wanted to add that these three images, below, are all I would require to judge the cut on this stone as superb.

The left image is a real test, zoomed in and straight on. This image would reveal any red flags like obstruction, lazy under-table facets, leakage or poor optical symmetry. But instead it reveals wonderful patterning and no signs of any of the baddies.

The middle image shoes a moderate crown height which is desired to me in this make of old cut, and a very small table, I wager mid-40%. These are ideal.

The right image shows that the stone has great edge to edge brightness and a pleasing bold pattern.

Depending on price and other practical factors, I would buy this diamond based on these images. In a heartbeat.

ETA: To be clear, by "practical considerations" I mean: trusted vendor and buyer protections, return period, comfort with possibility of returning the diamond, and any other protective factors you require to buy. My opinion is based only of the cut of the stone, no other considerations, and I am not liable for the outcome of this if you pursue it in any way

and YES, keep the pics of your ring coming!!
The table does look very small, but in the GIA report it is stated at 50%. I would have guessed 40% too! maybe it's because of the impression the high crown creates.

I am considering three options: a) having it shipped to a US-based appraiser and pick it up in Summer (PAIN), b) booking a flight and getting to know it personally ASAP, c) having it shipped to a trusted appraiser in Belgium (I live one hour away from Antwerp) and picking it up there.

And I have the other video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k8hb6dSlE0&feature=youtu.be

 

[diamondseeker2006]

If you had more than one prospect in NYC, then I think it would be worth going there.

 

[GemFever]

It sparkles! But man, if someone is selling diamonds, can't they learn to take a nice video? It's so easy with modern technology, like iPhones.

This is exciting! It certainly looks like a gorgeous diamond and setting.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I am convinced enough by those vidoes. I would fly to NY and also visit GOG and Adam at OWD to really train your eyes.

The price seems fair to me. It is basically "retail" pricing, but there is a rarity factor to take into account for the mount and the stone (proportions seems an early american or ideal cut, or later european cut).

I would not unset the stone for an ASET personally.

 

[dianabarbara]

Yes, I think it is very good advice. I will try to see what would be the most cost-effective solution, and if I can, I will def fly over!
I would certainly not mind a little visit to OWD and GOG for exploring alternatives

 

[CharmyPoo]

Man ... I so want to see this diamond in real life (I promise I won't buy it - plus, I just got my awesome oec so I won't be buying anything else for a while). I can see if I can stop by and take more pics for you.

I think I still have one listing up on Loupe Troop ... palladium setting.

 

[dianabarbara]

charmy, if you promise!!

I'll send you the link via loupetroop. It would be so great to have your opinion on it.
Buying from abroad is like buying blind. Be my eyes

 

[dianabarbara]

I finally got an answer from the vendor. It sounds like the lowest they can do is 15.8k. I realize it is not super-gracious to talk about this details, but I also need to stay practical. It is quite a stretch from the original budget and I am considering whether it is a smart move or not. Would you jump on it for this price, or wait until another one comes around?

I ask because I have no clue of how often it happens to find stones with this quality of pattern and better priced..

BTW, here is the link to Jonathan's video on ASET and OECs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iJvva6kSW8

I hope it's okay to post it here for other PSers seeking for information on this topic

 

[diamondseeker2006]

What are the diamond specs again? I SI2 estimated? and weight?

 

[dianabarbara]

hi Diamondseeker! This is the GIA report

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Well, I just looked and a 1.86 I SI2 GIA XXX at B2C is listed at $12,251. So you'd pretty much be paying equal to new retail for both stone and setting. I think they are asking too much.

But nice antique stones in great settings are hard to find, so if you really love it, then I think it would be okay. It just wouldn't be one of those great deals.

 

[GemFever]

There is a 1.96 K VS2 OEC on OWD for $11,390. BUT, it doesn't have that cut or that setting. How much is the setting worth to you? Are you likely to keep it, or will you re-set?

Hopefully more experienced buyers will chime in. I'm guessing though that with lots of time and patience, you could find another stone like this for a better price. But considering your boyfriend doesn't want to wait too long, and you are in Europe so it's not as easy to search all around the US... maybe this is the ring to buy. Hmm... I have a feeling I'm not exactly being helpful with the pros and cons. Good luck with your decision!

 

[dianabarbara]

DS, I took a look at the prices of AVRs and I thought the same

the sale assistant told me that the space for negotiation is small because they have very tight margins, and that the discount they gave is more than they would normally do

Gemfever, it is helpful instead. thank you. I find it so hard to evaluate OWD stones, as they only come with one picture!
With this setting, I have no plans to change a thing (aside of re-sizing down one size or so). The market for OECs here is a bit more difficult. Of course, there are plenty of stones, but dispersed in smaller local shops, so it does take a lot of time, travelling, and uncertainty. No pictures, and almost always no lab report. Ouch ouch ouch...

 

[Dreamer_D]

Although its a good place to begin by using MRBs as a comparison, it does not tell the whole story.

If you kept looking for a better price you would most likely not get a GIA report. You would not get videos (such as they were). You would likely not get clear photos. You might have to negotiate a price adjustmet post-hoc to compensate for inflated color/clarity ratings like I did.

If you keep looking for a better price you will be very very very hard pressed to find a GIA I color OEC in that size through most secondary sources. They just don't exist. Large OECs are rare. Near colorless are rarer still. And by rare I mean, you might see one per year come up on ebay (the only way for a better price IMO, compared to estate pricing like you are looking at here).

Then there is cut. That type of cut -- if it is indeed as lovely as I think it is -- is super rare. So multiple the cut rarity by the color rarity... you get my point, right?

And if you love that setting, that's worth something too, above the base price, since you cannot replicate those and finding a true antique that fits your stone is very hard.

So, to me, the price is fair. If you want a screaming deal, though, you will have to invest the time and energy to find it, and have good luck too. I don't think that is possible from Europe. Shipping makes it all too complex.

Finding a deal is not eveyrthing. Finding what you want for a fair price, that is what really matters.

 

[dianabarbara]

Although its a good place to begin by using MRBs as a comparison, it does not tell the whole story.

If you kept looking for a better price you would most likely not get a GIA report. You would not get videos (such as they were). You would likely not get clear photos. You might have to negotiate a price adjustmet post-hoc to compensate for inflated color/clarity ratings like I did.

If you keep looking for a better price you will be very very very hard pressed to find a GIA I color OEC in that size through most secondary sources. They just don't exist. Large OECs are rare. Near colorless are rarer still. And by rare I mean, you might see one per year come up on ebay (the only way for a better price IMO, compared to estate pricing like you are looking at here).

Then there is cut. That type of cut -- if it is indeed as lovely as I think it is -- is super rare. So multiple the cut rarity by the color rarity... you get my point, right?

And if you love that setting, that's worth something too, above the base price, since you cannot replicate those and finding a true antique that fits your stone is very hard.

So, to me, the price is fair. If you want a screaming deal, though, you will have to invest the time and energy to find it, and have good luck too. I don't think that is possible from Europe. Shipping makes it all too complex.

Finding a deal is not eveyrthing. Finding what you want for a fair price, that is what really matters.

Thank you all for your advice

Dreamer, I hear you too on this. The indication above (maybe one near colorless OEC of this size per year on eBay, and who knows with this cut) is very helpful. I also understand that the market for OEC is even more wild than that of modern cuts and that the setting alone is very valuable.

So I am trying to convince myself that it is a once-in-a-lifetime experience and that it can be done.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I totally agree with Dreamer that it is worth it if you absolutely adore the ring. I am in a similar position since I am hoping to buy an AVR. They are rare, and I will pay more than a comparable round brilliant. But it is worth it to me to get exactly what I want. So it all boils down to whether you love it enough to not want to give it up! If you don't, then don't buy it at any price!