OEC lovers: define 'beautiful'

[dianabarbara]

Madelise, I also prefer not too big culets. It freaks me out a bit to see stones with huge bottoms.. pff

Pandabee, wonky is a problem for me too. If the stone has to be bezeled, maybe not so much, as I think there might be ways to cover it, but since this is not the plan..

Dreamer, very well said. You saw it better than me in many ways. I do love symmetry, and my best bets here are also on pic 96.png and pic3. I really like the design of the second setting, although I had in mind something simpler. My fingers are not ultra-long, and I got a similar silver ring with a topaz to try out that style of band. I am not sure how flattering it looks on my hand. In the original posts referring to that ring, although, the overall impression is amazing. And I in principle like warmer stones, so I am still considering..

I will try to post other pics of the 96.png, to have some advice on whether it could be a nicely performing stone. In the meantime, I see some sort of line going diagonally in the stone from top left to bottom right. It could be a hair or something.. or could it be a creek???

Mayk, I hear you on this! I always drool on JBEG’s pictures!! and thank you so much for the encouragement. I really appreciate your words.

Chrono, too small tables/steep stones is something I’d like to steer away from too. I have seen a 2.5 carats stone on eBay with a spread under 8mm. Not so nice..

 

[dianabarbara]

My goodness, Dreamer, this is exactly what I am looking for!!

how did you manage to find such a beauty? I think I will need a lot of extra help and advice along the road..

 

[dianabarbara]

Dreamer, also thank you for showing the kozibe effect with so much detail. I did not know it could show up from a side view only.

Look what I have noticed here, in the other views of 96.png I was seeking for!!!

 

[dianabarbara]

in these pictures I do not see the 'creek' anymore.

The crown looks nicely high to me. How would you expect this stone to look and perform in real life? Could this be a keeper?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

pic3 doesn't look like a real antique cut to me. Facets are super crisp and perfect like a newly cut stone. Can anyone verify if it is really old?

 

[dianabarbara]

diamondseeker, I also noticed the stone looks very well polished. Maybe it was not worn frequently?

The source states it is an antique cut from the beginning of the last century, but it's hard to tell how accurate this information is.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Dreamer, also thank you for showing the kozibe effect with so much detail. I did not know it could show up from a side view only.

Look what I have noticed here, in the other views of 96.png I was seeking for!!!

To me, this stone has great potential. These extreme angle shots are really useful too b/c they can reveal poor cut as hazy half moons under the "far" end of the table. This stone looks like a great example of its type.

Diamondseeker that stone was owned by a PSer. We cannot ever know for sure if a stone is newly cut or old. Many older stones are repolished, and actually most of these 2ct+ stones were rarely worn back in the day, I have been told. They were special occassion rings! My diamond also looks, and could be I suppose, new. But no one is cutting stones like this now except Jon to my knowledge There is no market for it and I don't think these cut styles retain weight like many cutters aim for today.

 

[Dreamer_D]

My goodness, Dreamer, this is exactly what I am looking for!!

how did you manage to find such a beauty? I think I will need a lot of extra help and advice along the road..

Thanks. I spent a year trolling ebay every day for an hour to snatch it up! So nothing special But I am obsessed with it.

 

[dianabarbara]

Dreamer, if it was owned by another PSer, did you have the chance to see other pics of it?

Also given your advice, I am considering sending an offer to the vendor, so all the information and opinions I can get are greatly appreciated

 

[dianabarbara]

My goodness, Dreamer, this is exactly what I am looking for!!

how did you manage to find such a beauty? I think I will need a lot of extra help and advice along the road..

Thanks. I spent a year trolling ebay every day for an hour to snatch it up! So nothing special But I am obsessed with it.

I can believe you are obsessed with it, who wouldn't?
It is really unbelivable.. you did a great job!!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Does thaty 96.png have an appraisal? Measurements and color clarity estimates? Is it local to you?

Unless I am mistaken, this is the pic3 ring:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/vintage-art-deco-ring-from-single-stone.150717/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/vintage-art-deco-ring-from-single-stone.150717/[/URL]
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-would-you-call-this-diamond-oec-transitional-other.167335/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-would-you-call-this-diamond-oec-transitional-other.167335/[/URL]

I admire this diamond a lot, it was one of the ones I loves that motivated me to look for my own version.

 

[dianabarbara]

Does thaty 96.png have an appraisal? Measurements and color clarity estimates? Is it local to you?

Unless I am mistaken, this is the pic3 ring:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/vintage-art-deco-ring-from-single-stone.150717/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/vintage-art-deco-ring-from-single-stone.150717/[/URL]
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-would-you-call-this-diamond-oec-transitional-other.167335/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-would-you-call-this-diamond-oec-transitional-other.167335/[/URL]

I admire this diamond a lot, it was one of the ones I loves that motivated me to look for my own version.

96.png has an appraisal, but from a rather unknown lab.. and it is by no means local to me
the price looks quite good to me, though..

Regarding pic 3, it is exactly that ring. I like the pattern.. what worries me a bit is that sometimes it does not look like it faces up very sparkly. It could be just the picture, but for instance in the second link you posted one of the hand shots on the mid-low first page does not look great, in my opinion. I'm just afraid it would not look too nice with my hands, and as I am always pale (Dutch weather..) I don't know how well I'd pull off a dark yellow tint

the other stone is suggested to be a J-K.

 

[dianabarbara]

ouch...

I just got an email from the seller.

the ring was sold

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Dreamer, also thank you for showing the kozibe effect with so much detail. I did not know it could show up from a side view only.

Look what I have noticed here, in the other views of 96.png I was seeking for!!!

To me, this stone has great potential. These extreme angle shots are really useful too b/c they can reveal poor cut as hazy half moons under the "far" end of the table. This stone looks like a great example of its type.

Diamondseeker that stone was owned by a PSer. We cannot ever know for sure if a stone is newly cut or old. Many older stones are repolished, and actually most of these 2ct+ stones were rarely worn back in the day, I have been told. They were special occassion rings! My diamond also looks, and could be I suppose, new. But no one is cutting stones like this now except Jon to my knowledge There is no market for it and I don't think these cut styles retain weight like many cutters aim for today.

Ah, yes, I now recognize it! I think I will always question certain diamonds now that I know Singlestone has done at least one pavilion recut to a modern rb.

But I love that yours is so beautifully cut with crisp facet junctions!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

ouch...

I just got an email from the seller.

the ring was sold

Awww, sorry!! But that means that there is probably a better one out there for you!

 

[dianabarbara]

Thank you diamondseeker.

I really hope it will turn out well and on the other hand I did expect it to be a rather time consuming quest. Ladies, I'll need your help too, so please do let me know when you bump into a gorgeous stone!!

 

[CharmyPoo]

For me, there are two types of OECs / old stones that I absolutely love.

One type is the diamond that Dreamer has - it is one of my favorites and drove me to buy a diamond from the same seller that is very similar (although not nearly as nice as Dreamer's). The perfection in symmetry of her stone is next to impossible to find. I have never seen another close to her stone.

Second type is one with a nice flower pattern but I prefer very small flowers in the middle with a small table and high crown. I am not a fan of OECs with a huge flower in the center even though it is very symmetrical. I have seen a number in real life and I just don't like them as much. I am also not a fan of fat "petals" that look more like circles - I know in some ways this is necessary for full light return but I can give that up.

The truth is ... we can sit here and talk about what we think is beautiful or what we want ... but finding one that meets our requirements is a completely different story. These well cut true old stones are so hard to find in larger sizes (and if you are selective on color even harder). No two stones are perfectly alike although sometimes they share characteristics.

What you think is beautiful on paper may not turn out that way in real life. I hate using people's stones as examples but if you look at Fortekitty's honker - the pattern isn't perfectly symmetrical but it is one of the most beautiful OECs I have seen. That thing dazzles like crazy and never takes a bad photo even if it is in a garbage can with no light ... that thing will be blinding you.

I guess my advice is that if you find one you love and within your price point ... snatch it up. It doesn't matter too much what other people think. Each one has its own personality. If you want perfect facets and symmetry (and can't wait around for years or spend hours crawling the internet), the AVR is the easy way to go and you are pretty much guaranteed a well cut stone with a flower pattern.

 

[madelise]

Haha, okay see, like Dreamer's diamond? L VE. But I've seen some that are MORE recently cut than hers, where it seriously looks like a MRB with a hole in it.

And I also agree with Chrono re: the depth. I love that high crown, ring pop look, but I don't like it enough to warrant having a super deep depth, where it faces up much much smaller than a MRB of the same ctwt would.


You know who has my DREAM patterning? PS's very own CoatiMundi's. *Blingasm.

 

[Dreamer_D]

OK, well as much as I obviously take any chance I can to post pics of my diamond and brag all about her, I am a little embarassed that I seem to have turned this thread about my stone Thank you for all the compliments and love for my baby. I adore my ring and get immense pleasure from her every single day. She is my soul mate.

I agree with everything Charmy said about how you have to find your own preferences, and there is no right or wrong. I think finding an old cut is a little like finding a husband. Its nice to have some preferences on paper, but in the end you have to evaluate each diamond on its own and fall in love. Maybe you have some basic rules: employed, clean, no farting in bed. But you can't specify height and weight and hair color or you might miss out on some really great guys! Unless you are Charmy who had a very specific list and somehow filled it

So, I like all of the cut styles that have great optics. I am open minded about the specific "look"! I like the old bubbly types, I like the early MRBs, I like all of them in between.

As long as they are well cut

 

[dianabarbara]

Charmy, I agree that it is possible to have splitted preferences and that at the end of the day abstact ideas on what you might like or not do not necessarily transalte in reality. All the points that have been brought up in this conversation are very valid and still they reflect subjective inclinations.
I thought about the possibility of an AVR, but I am not entirely satisfied with it, at least not at the moment. I can’t wait for years for this specific ring, but I can give it a couple of months, and if I really strech my boyfriend’s nevers I can make it until June

So please please please let me know if you see anything!

Madelise, yes, some late OEC with huge culets are not exactly too appealing to my taste either. On the other hand, there are relatively shallow stones that face up suriprisingly well. I will post a picture soon. In all honesty, though, I still like to see a high crown with a small table from the profile.

Dreamer, no embarassment! Through your choice, you have been a teacher on here. I like your comparison. I have neve had a list of ideal boyfriend’s characteristics, and I still fell in love with a great one. Eventually, those traits that really matter to us implicitly guide our picks anyways

 

[justginger]

I think I am an easy to please old cut lover. I love so, so many different things. It's easier to name what I don't like - and that's an overly large culet, too little symmetry (I don't like the large facets under the table and then smaller facets around the stone's periphery), or too strong of a kozibe effect. I do like what Charmy describes as something she doesn't like - really prevalent, rounded 'petals' under the table. Crispness of faceting, a tilted kozibe, a fairly regular outline, symmetry resulting in faceting looking 'even', these are what I like. I also like when you can sort of see fat 'arrows' in them - I know I've seen that effect in at least one of Dreamer's stones.

I can't even name one absolute favorite on here - my heart jumps when I see both FK's and Mara's stones. Really incredible patterning on those two, perfect to me.

You'll find something that sings to you. It's just like a treasure hunt!

 

[dianabarbara]

Hi justginger! it is so so much easier to define what we don't like

If I recall well you sourced your stone with OWD, right? Did they send you a video or a youtube link before you had to go for the purchase?
I am realizing more and more how difficult it is to pick from a picture.

And I agree, both FK and Mara's are stunning

 

[justginger]

Yes, I got two or three still photos, and two youtube videos. You can see them here: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/i-found-it.175686/

 

[chrono]

I would not get Pic 3 because it looks too modern. Oh, I'm sorry the first one is sold. A better one will come your way soon.

I thought about getting an AVR many times but something kept bugging me and Charmy nailed it. It's the fat petals that look like circles. It bugs me enough that I am willing to sacrifice full light return.

 

[dianabarbara]

Justginger, I just can't tired of your stone. She's incredible. And thank you for taking the time to write down your story and post it.
It is very helpful

Chrono, I am debating about the stone in pic3 too..
the right one will come around, at a certain point. And then I'll be ready to take the plunge

 

[missy]

What a good question. And a difficult one to explain. I know I like a stone with personality. A lively stone with crisp and clean faceting. I find many old cuts beautiful for different reasons. They either speak to me or they don't. I cannot always explain why but I know it when I love it. When searching for the one that speaks to you Diana just be open to what you look at because on paper it might not make your heart go pitter patter but IRL it might just! Good luck and happy hunting!!

 

[dianabarbara]

missy, you have an excellent point here.

needing to see the stone in real life creates a bit of a dilemma. Here in Europe *nobody* measures the performance of antique stones, to my knowledge. No Sarin report, no ASET pictures, no nothing. On the other hand, importing a documented stone from the US means paying custom duties and VAT, so shipping back in case paper does not translate to reality would be quite uncomfy.

So either I just search locally and trust my eyes, or I search also on the US market and trust paper

Do some of you find the IdealScope handy and helpful in the selection of OECs? Or should I just look at the stones in different lights?

My boyfriend has just booked a weekend to London, hopefully we'll see some more there

 

[missy]

Diana, IMO the most important tools for evaluating true old cuts are your eyes and a loupe. As you said evaluating under different lighting conditions is very helpful as well and use your eyes to tell you if it is a beautiful diamond.
Your trip to London sounds exciting and I hope you get to see some amazing diamonds!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I adore Dreamer's stone, and if I could find it's sister with the right size and color/clarity and equal cut, that would be the diamond for me!!! So since that is next to impossible, I choose another difficult to find prospect, a perfectly cut AVR in the right size, color/clarity! All AVR's do not look the same, but they are well cut. The problem now is that higher color rough is expensive and not plentiful at the moment. So I am still waiting!

I am with Dreamer, though, I can like any of the old cuts when the stone was at the top of it's class at that time with excellent cutting. Certainly there were master cutters who cut for Tiffany and other luxury jewelers, and there were differences in cut quality then just as there is now. I won't settle on cut for an old or new stone. We see a lot of stones turn over on pre-loved, and the ones being kept are the very best ones!

 

[maccers]

I'm a bit late to this thread but wanted to chime in as I think it's a great question. There's a lot of mystery behind antique cuts because we don't have tools like the HCA or 'heart and arrows' to guide us. I think there's a bit more intuition involved and of course people's personal preferences!

I'm waiting for my SO to set this OEC from JbEG (at least the diamond is at the jewellers now, can't be long, right?). To me, this stone is very flowery but I'm not sure if I have the same definition as others about flowery-ness. When I first started learning about OECs (only 3-4 months ago, I feel like I've come a long way), I liked very traditional OECs. Not OMCs and not trannies. I wasn't sure about kozibe effect either. However, as I continued learning, I started seeing OMCs and trannies that were fantastic! So never say never. The kozibe effect has really grown on me. My stone has it but because it's only 6.5mm spread, I don't really see it unless I have my loupe.