WHY do people want whiter diamonds?

[Circe]

And now my turn to cut and never-mind! Will take it on over to the thread about the company you were asking about, DS.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

And now my turn to cut and never-mind! Will take it on over to the thread about the company you were asking about, DS.

Thanks, I found her post and it was about a bad repair to a ring that was not that brand. I am still considering a setting from them for the reasons you mention, and I was thinking (hoping) it wasn't involving that brand of setting. But I remembered the thread once I found it.

 

[Rhino]

Thanks for bringing things full circle Garry.

I like really icy diamonds too, Pyramid, and possibly I'm "against" warmer diamonds for myself mainly because I've had a bad experience with my I coloured engagement ring (discussed earlier in the thread).

I have been very surprised to read in this thread and in a couple of others, recently, that icy diamonds are considered boring by some. My Ds and Es are very fiery and throw out the full colour spectrum of light, which dances against a pristine white background. So they are the embodiment of fire and ice, and they sparkle like the blazes. Imagine a fire burning on a frozen lake. Most people's reaction to them is something along the lines of, "Ohhhh, how lovely." I think if I called warm diamonds "boring" on here, I'd get eaten alive - not that I think they're boring. I could never think of any diamond as boring. But despite our "people vary" mantra, people feel very free to insult icy diamonds on here, which is why mine are currently so upset.

Smith, I'm sorry you're insulted ... could you maybe say more about why? I've seen warm diamonds associated with everything from dingy linen to dirty teeth to urine, and, that doesn't bother me, for whatever reason (possibly because so many of my choices are, ah, unorthodox that somebody disliking my diamonds is a drop in the big platinum bucket that is my life). And that's not to say my reaction is "right," just that I'd like to understand yours. You have the stones that ARE approved of by a huge majority, so why does little-league dissent - not even insults, as far as I recall, just a general "not my thing" - bother you? I hate to think of your poor diamonds dimming their shine in a strop!

Well, because they've been called boring and fake-looking - i.e. looking like CZ (in another recent thread.) I don't care, but they do. Their little eyes grew wider and wider, and they went a funny grey colour. One of them swallowed hard and whispered to me, "Mommy, I don't want to go to the GTG with all those people. They don't like us." And then they went and put themselves to bed, in the middle of the afternoon, and they haven't spoken since.

Hi Smith,

What I believe is getting lost in translation in the conversations about "boring" and "fake looking" is that there are those who have their personal opinions about these things which are fine and for clarification I didn't take Alj's response and opinion as anything but her own so no misunderstanding there. The difference is this. When I am giving a presentation or even talking among friends and they are wearing or purchasing a diamond that I don't have a personal preference for I will not look at that and tell them ... Your diamond is boring and fake looking, nor would I have the audacity, after showing a client a series of diamonds and they personally select the AGS 10 that what they picked is utter crap. Alj's "boring" and my "utter crap" are to others "exciting" and "have a lot of character" just as my "N" color to some may remind them of bodily fluids. There are folks coming here who are expressing their personal opinions about certain degrees of cut or color that they do not personally prefer and it's easy for anyone on the other end of the spectrum to feel offended by that description or designation when the original party really had no intention of doing so. It's why I get Alj's response. She was merely expressing her opinion and meant no offense to those who disagreed just as I was expressing mine and meant no offense as well. I believe the intention is the same with those who express distaste for colorless diamonds (your scenario) as it is with those who have a distaste for warmer colored diamonds etc.

Hope that helps.

Kind regards,
Rhino

 

[bgray]

Circe et al--I never made any negative remarks about non white and/or lower colored stones. I was merely commenting on the question posed. I also didnt think anyone was saying that people who liked warmer colored stones were posers and wannabees--or whatever that comment was. My own preferences ----I love super white diamonds in step cuts. They seem to demand to be super white because they are so angular and crisp. I don't like modern rounds. They look like CZ's to me especially when very white. I love OEC and mine cuts and I find that they look more antique and "right" in softer colors.

BG, you don't have to explain - I get that. And I'm sorry, in turn, if you felt like I was passive aggressively calling you out (I really wasn't: if anything, my flaw is generally being aggressive-aggressive). But I'm aware warm stones aren't everybody's cuppa, which is, I suppose, why I wanted to query Smith (hopefully politely and not intrusively) - white stones ARE supposed to be the general standard, so I wondered what had stung in this thread. I figure we're all only talking about our own tastes/experiences, right?

P.S. - I so find it fascinating that on the board where I saw the comment about people with lower color diamonds being ... aspirational, shall we say, there is a RIDICULOUS amount of double-talk about all stones to keep from hurting anybody's feelings. Yikes! It's like it goes to BOTH extremes on there. Do not want!

Thanks Circe--I really value your (and everyone here) perspective and insight so I didn't want there to be any misunderstanding.

 

[WinkHPD]

What a lovely word. I pride myself on my usable vocabulary, and I admit this one sent me running to my dictionary to look up. (Well, actually I googled it, it is quicker!) Thank you for broadening my vocabulary today!

Wink

Wink, that made my day - I love finding new words, too (the other day I discovered "otiose," and it was like finding a little gift from the universe). So thanks, in turn, to you!

LOL! And did you find it useful? I have not heard it in years, and the one time I tried to use it, well, that did not go so well.

(For those who do not know, otiose is a word to describe something that is redundant or useless.)

Wink

 

[Polished]

And now my turn to cut and never-mind! Will take it on over to the thread about the company you were asking about, DS.

Thanks, I found her post and it was about a bad repair to a ring that was not that brand. I am still considering a setting from them for the reasons you mention, and I was thinking (hoping) it wasn't involving that brand of setting. But I remembered the thread once I found it.

I wouldn't put you off but I would urge caution. If private contact was possible I'd give you my consumer report about them.

 

[Polished]

Carpe diem D coloured diamonds! No lounging in bed for you, there's work to be done! Set in platinum you finish off a navy or indigo outfit to perfection. When I wanted a colourless diamond it meant I didn't want to see even a ghost of a tint, including from the side. Also if you even imagined you saw a tint it could easily be dismissed with, "don't be daft, it's a D". I happily went down in carat size and clarity (a rare one) in order to achieve this and it didn't disappoint. Sometimes you might want quirky, sometimes you might enjoy a chameleon and there are other times when you want a really sure thing.

 

[Tourmaline]

I'll play. I like icy diamonds because I'm really a winter person. I detest summer - all hot and sweaty and constantly feeling as if you're about to faint. I like winter landscapes, with frozen ice and twinkling frost.

I love this! It really hits on something. I think those of us who tried to explain our love for lower colored diamonds did so because it seems to be assumed that people only settle for them for financial reasons, and we (or certainly, I) wanted to try to explain that that isn't necessarily so, which is why I talked about my lighting preferences and shades of ivory over white preferences. I love the seasonal analogy you've given. I am neither winter nor summer. I love Spring, the beginning of color returning.

 

[Rhino]

I'll play. I like icy diamonds because I'm really a winter person. I detest summer - all hot and sweaty and constantly feeling as if you're about to faint. I like winter landscapes, with frozen ice and twinkling frost.

I love this! It really hits on something. I think those of us who tried to explain our love for lower colored diamonds did so because it seems to be assumed that people only settle for them for financial reasons, and we (or certainly, I) wanted to try to explain that that isn't necessarily so, which is why I talked about my lighting preferences and shades of ivory over white preferences. I love the seasonal analogy you've given. I am neither winter nor summer. I love Spring, the beginning of color returning.

Me too Tourmaline. I'm up here in the Northeast and love the changes of seasons. What's interesting too is over time how our tastes and appeals appear to change too. Have an awesome day everyone.

Regards,
Rhino

 

[Tourmaline]

Me too Tourmaline. I'm up here in the Northeast and love the changes of seasons. What's interesting too is over time how our tastes and appeals appear to change too. Have an awesome day everyone.

Yes! I am in the Northeast, too. I want to mention that I LOVED your video that showed the different color tones possible in a given letter color grade (yellowish, brownish, grayish). That stuff fascinates me!

 

[yssie]

Smith, tell your darling Ds to get out of bed and draw the curtains!! The sun is shining and they should be making merry

Truly, Circe said it more eloquently than I will, but I hope you know that the dissenting commentary wasn't meant to abuse I think there's a lot of truth to your post a couple of pages back about why it often seems more "acceptable" to disparage white diamonds than their lower-coloured counterparts - goodness knows, in any other thread the explicit comparisons to dirty dishwater, soiled snow, and bodily fluids would have earned some vicious rebuttals! But calling higher colours "fake-looking" is pretty much par for the course. It's a lot like diamond size, actually - how often do we see larger stones blithely termed "gaudy", "tacky", and "ostentatious"? Larger stones, higher-coloured stones, and higher-clarity stones are higher on society's status ladder, and since we as a society have decreed that it's A-okay to mock displays of status - whether or not that was the intent - I guess it's not all that surprising... which doesn't make it *right*, of course!

My reasons for liking the J-M range are rather unimaginative, all said and done. I loved the winter comparison - my favourite season is autumn and I'm trying to use that to justify my colour preference but I'm failing! Smith, you said that you've noticed that the lower colours just look darker to you, and I've noticed that too, and I love that effect - to my eyes the darkness adds a depth that I miss when I look at whiter stones. The J-M range is perfectly indeterminate in that way - not quite white enough to look "white", not quite tinted enough to look "yellow" or "brown", just... an in-between that refuses to be neatly categorised and filed. Another reason is that my absolute favourite metal colour is creamy/very pale yellow gold, and I love when stone and setting 'match' - so I lean toward creamy/very pale yellow stones.

Circe, I take your point - people usually are pretty consistent in their preferences! Me, yeah... I conform to the modern middle-class status quo - suite of red KitchenAid appliances and all I'd love a stainless kitchen. I'd also love a living room with dark studded floors and cathedral ceilings, but then they wouldn't wouldn't match, and given those options I'd pick the kitchen. In reality we have neither so it's easy to imagine! My Ering isn't what most would want for an Ering but doesn't exactly fly in the face of conformity either... it's sorta like the silver food processor because we went with a different brand and they didn't offer red - a teeny tiny rebellion

 

[diamondseeker2006]

And now my turn to cut and never-mind! Will take it on over to the thread about the company you were asking about, DS.

Thanks, I found her post and it was about a bad repair to a ring that was not that brand. I am still considering a setting from them for the reasons you mention, and I was thinking (hoping) it wasn't involving that brand of setting. But I remembered the thread once I found it.

I wouldn't put you off but I would urge caution. If private contact was possible I'd give you my consumer report about them.

Go to loupetroop.com. Look under rings. Go to the bottom and my listing says 1.58 G VS1 diamond and you can reach me. I'd appreciate it!

 

[Tekate]

Andelain:


your ring is to die for! very very lovely. thanks!

 

[Andelain]

Andelain:


your ring is to die for! very very lovely. thanks!

Thank you!

 

[Tekate]

Hello Tourmalaine, I had a D/E VVS2 Oval once.. it's color was pure white, EXCEPT the bowtie was just toooo annoying for me.. so I can understand the love of a DEF, but I then traded up to a G/H round VS2 that popped more.... so I think color is just one of several things.. the ring that Kim Karsashian has now is to die for.. I would love a stone like that but at the 1.5 2.0 carat (okay 3) size.. it's like ICE! I just love diamonds I guess.

 

[beaujolais]

The stone in my avitar is a P. Richness, warmth, many color personalities - buttery light yellow, ivory or sometimes white, so much fun. I can link it to fall, my favorite season, which to me is a season with the same (emotional) warmth & depth.

 

[yssie]

Sonoma, I've always admired your av

Do you have a thread on that stone? I'm not finding one in your thread history but... I sorta suck at searching PS.

//Sorry to threadjack!

 

[Tourmaline]

I thought of an analogy for the way high-color-lovers are feeling put down, whereas lower-color-lovers have been putting up with that for a long time...it's like body weight. Fat-bashing is really common, but when people say they wouldn't want to look skinny (or "like a skeleton" or similar), thin people feel attacked. It is my belief that we aren't all supposed to be the same, that people look and feel better at various weights, but I think it's human nature to come up with defenses for our own preferences or situations.

And yes, we have totally gone on with this topic (and I am really enjoying it!). I think some of it comes down to personal aesthetic (people have explained themselves very well here about that), but the masses want higher colors simply because they are more expensive ("so they must be better").

 

[yssie]

Sonoma, I've always admired your av

Do you have a thread on that stone? I'm not finding one in your thread history but... I sorta suck at searching PS.

//Sorry to threadjack!

Ohhh I found it!! 1.37ct from mlopros on ebay for anyone else who is wondering:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-new-vintage-stone-omc.98874/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-new-vintage-stone-omc.98874/[/URL]

 

[Niel]

Kim's ring is a good example of why I don't like high color diamonds. I thought I was suppose to which is I believe why it took me so long to find my ring...

Diamonds have personality to me. Stark white ones have a sort of cold lab coat feel. Not all, but most in my eyes. I don't want mine to feel that buttoned up and fancy. I want my diamonds to have distinct and noticeable moods. I feel like, if my diamonds were a person, I'd hang out with them

I wouldn't want to hang out with Kim k's ring.

 

[Demon]

The stone in my avitar is a P. Richness, warmth, many color personalities - buttery light yellow, ivory or sometimes white, so much fun. I can link it to fall, my favorite season, which to me is a season with the same (emotional) warmth & depth.

This.

I never used to like diamonds because they all seemed they same - round & white. I'd see an occasional princess or something, but on the whole - round and white. When I came here, I discovered that really isn't the case. My 1st purchase was a champagne, my second a P, my third a J. And while I appreciate the J for it's (to me) whiteness (and it's very strong blue fluorescence), I don't want anything whiter. My next purchase was a W-X. Then an M with a slight brownish tint for my daughter, which I had set in rose gold with white diamonds on the shank. I still lust for that diamond. In certain lights it looks kind of caramel-y and it's just gorgeous. I then went on to full yellow.

 

[Rhino]

Sonoma, I've always admired your av

Do you have a thread on that stone? I'm not finding one in your thread history but... I sorta suck at searching PS.

//Sorry to threadjack!

Ohhh I found it!! 1.37ct from mlopros on ebay for anyone else who is wondering:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-new-vintage-stone-omc.98874/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-new-vintage-stone-omc.98874/[/URL]

I remember this one! Didn't I shoot a clip of this too!

And thank you Tourmaline. I really enjoyed putting that one together.

Kindest regards,
Jonathan

 

[beaujolais]

Aww, thanks Yssie.

Thanks Jon. Yes, you did a video of it after you sent it out to have it repolished and the girdle cleaned up. You realize this stone/ring is hanging out at your shop right now, yes?

My ideal diamond would be one with the color of this old vintage (maybe even a bit more color), cut as a AVC (they truly have superior performance), with very strong florescence.

Demon: The collection of yours that you just described - wow.

 

[Smith1942]

Thanks everyone! I'm dashing around packing for a loong flight back to my home country tomorrow, but just wanted to say hi and thanks to everyone who has replied! My D diamonds are feeling much better. Just a tiny little hiccup when one had a nightmare that he went to sleep a D Si2 and woke up as a piece of CZ, but he's finally stopped shaking and is twinkling at himself in front of the mirror.

Why is there so much to do just before you go away, whyyyy? Without fail, the universe decides that this is an excellent time to dump extra chores in your lap.

 

[Rhino]

Hello Tourmalaine, I had a D/E VVS2 Oval once.. it's color was pure white, EXCEPT the bowtie was just toooo annoying for me.. so I can understand the love of a DEF, but I then traded up to a G/H round VS2 that popped more.... so I think color is just one of several things.. the ring that Kim Karsashian has now is to die for.. I would love a stone like that but at the 1.5 2.0 carat (okay 3) size.. it's like ICE! I just love diamonds I guess.

Hi Andelain!

Tekate, when it comes to fancies like pear, marquise & ovals that graphic that Garry posted earlier really comes to play on these regardless of bowties simply because of the nature of how much light leakage exists in these shapes. If a person is the slightest bit color sensitive I generally recommend D-G with H's in some circumstances if it is exceptionally cut. Garry or Karl if you're reading could you post up a DiamCalc image to show this if you can to demonstrate? I'm on my laptop at home.

All the best,
Rhino

 

[Rhino]

Aww, thanks Yssie.

Thanks Jon. Yes, you did a video of it after you sent it out to have it repolished and the girdle cleaned up. You realize this stone/ring is hanging out at your shop right now, yes?

My ideal diamond would be one with the color of this old vintage (maybe even a bit more color), cut as a AVC (they truly have superior performance), with very strong florescence.

Demon: The collection of yours that you just described - wow.

GET OUT Sonoma!!! Call me tomorrow! I must see the ring!

 

[msop04]

Kim's ring is a good example of why I don't like high color diamonds. I thought I was suppose to which is I believe why it took me so long to find my ring...

Diamonds have personality to me. Stark white ones have a sort of cold lab coat feel. Not all, but most in my eyes. I don't want mine to feel that buttoned up and fancy. I want my diamonds to have distinct and noticeable moods. I feel like, if my diamonds were a person, I'd hang out with them

I wouldn't want to hang out with Kim k's ring.

This cracked me up! I wouldn't wanna hang with KK's ring either -- it seems kinda "Look at me, look at me!!" -- when in reality, no one really cares.

...just proceed with caution if you ask them what they do for a living.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Hello Tourmalaine, I had a D/E VVS2 Oval once.. it's color was pure white, EXCEPT the bowtie was just toooo annoying for me.. so I can understand the love of a DEF, but I then traded up to a G/H round VS2 that popped more.... so I think color is just one of several things.. the ring that Kim Karsashian has now is to die for.. I would love a stone like that but at the 1.5 2.0 carat (okay 3) size.. it's like ICE! I just love diamonds I guess.

Hi Andelain!

Tekate, when it comes to fancies like pear, marquise & ovals that graphic that Garry posted earlier really comes to play on these regardless of bowties simply because of the nature of how much light leakage exists in these shapes. If a person is the slightest bit color sensitive I generally recommend D-G with H's in some circumstances if it is exceptionally cut. Garry or Karl if you're reading could you post up a DiamCalc image to show this if you can to demonstrate? I'm on my laptop at home.

All the best,
Rhino

Hi Rhino,
Not sure what you want me to show?
For the record, Bow Ties are the nail head effect where your head and body is obscuring the light sources causing the dark zones. They are never caused by leakage.
And the leakage is not simply the cause of more color face up - its the length of the ray trace in various parts of the diamond.
The example of the emerald cut with strong yellow zones that Karl posted a page or two back has good straight in straight our brightness in the center, but yellow near the ends.
If you want to see more color then you can also mess up the symmetry in a round cut.

 

[Smith1942]

Kim's ring is a good example of why I don't like high color diamonds. I thought I was suppose to which is I believe why it took me so long to find my ring...

Diamonds have personality to me. Stark white ones have a sort of cold lab coat feel. Not all, but most in my eyes. I don't want mine to feel that buttoned up and fancy. I want my diamonds to have distinct and noticeable moods. I feel like, if my diamonds were a person, I'd hang out with them

I wouldn't want to hang out with Kim k's ring.

This cracked me up! I wouldn't wanna hang with KK's ring either -- it seems kinda "Look at me, look at me!!" -- when in reality, no one really cares.

...just proceed with caution if you ask them what they do for a living.

Indeed. Because they might be met with the answer, "Mind your own business, you nosy cow."

 

[Rhino]

Hello Tourmalaine, I had a D/E VVS2 Oval once.. it's color was pure white, EXCEPT the bowtie was just toooo annoying for me.. so I can understand the love of a DEF, but I then traded up to a G/H round VS2 that popped more.... so I think color is just one of several things.. the ring that Kim Karsashian has now is to die for.. I would love a stone like that but at the 1.5 2.0 carat (okay 3) size.. it's like ICE! I just love diamonds I guess.

Hi Andelain!

Tekate, when it comes to fancies like pear, marquise & ovals that graphic that Garry posted earlier really comes to play on these regardless of bowties simply because of the nature of how much light leakage exists in these shapes. If a person is the slightest bit color sensitive I generally recommend D-G with H's in some circumstances if it is exceptionally cut. Garry or Karl if you're reading could you post up a DiamCalc image to show this if you can to demonstrate? I'm on my laptop at home.

All the best,
Rhino

Hi Rhino,
Not sure what you want me to show?
For the record, Bow Ties are the nail head effect where your head and body is obscuring the light sources causing the dark zones. They are never caused by leakage.
And the leakage is not simply the cause of more color face up - its the length of the ray trace in various parts of the diamond.
The example of the emerald cut with strong yellow zones that Karl posted a page or two back has good straight in straight our brightness in the center, but yellow near the ends.
If you want to see more color then you can also mess up the symmetry in a round cut.

Hi Garry,

LOL... I know the bow tie is not due to leakage. We had that conversation back in 2000 on another forum.

To me there appears to be a correlation between leakage and color entrapment. It may be directly related to the length of the rays as you state and would make for an interesting study. One thing I do know for sure is that those fancy shapes do retain more color than other shapes with ideal optics. If you can, show us a ray trace of say ... a pear or oval. Thanks Garry.

Regards,
Jonathan