WHY do people want whiter diamonds?

[chappy]

is there a reason other than color preference?

I mean, if all the other 3 C's were equal, would a warmer diamond perform worse than a colorless diamond? very curious and can't find any information on this topic. thanks!

 

[smilligan]

Afaik, color has no bearing on performance. Cut and clarity do. It's a preference. Just like people usually prefer a deeper blue in sapphires or green in emeralds.

 

[chappy]

according to this site:
http://www.brilliance.com/diamond-color

A diamond's color has a significant impact on its appearance. With its many prismatic facets, a colorless diamond reflects light into a spectrum of hues, a characteristic often referred to as "fire". The presence of noticeable color in a diamond may reduce its ability to reflect light. Consequently, diamonds with lower color grades will not show the same luminosity and fire as those with higher grades. The most valuable diamonds have little to no detectable color.

but then according to tihs site...
http://www.goodheartsjewelry.com/diamonds/diamond-education/

For some reason, diamonds with a tinge of color seem to have more fire, a warmer beauty, than icy white stones.

 

[LLJsmom]

I like whiter diamonds (MRB and step cuts), all else being equal, because it's just my preference. Like purple is my favorite color. Yours might be blue. With old cuts, I prefer I-K. Just what my eye likes. I don't have any other reason. Others may...

 

[Laila619]

Color does have a tiny effect on a diamond's ability to reflect light, but it's probably so minimal.

I personally love I/J/K color and don't like to overpay for anything higher.

 

[Dreamer_D]

according to this site:
http://www.brilliance.com/diamond-color

A diamond's color has a significant impact on its appearance. With its many prismatic facets, a colorless diamond reflects light into a spectrum of hues, a characteristic often referred to as "fire". The presence of noticeable color in a diamond may reduce its ability to reflect light. Consequently, diamonds with lower color grades will not show the same luminosity and fire as those with higher grades. The most valuable diamonds have little to no detectable color.

but then according to tihs site...
http://www.goodheartsjewelry.com/diamonds/diamond-education/

For some reason, diamonds with a tinge of color seem to have more fire, a warmer beauty, than icy white stones.

Neither of those statements is true.

Cut quality influences the light play in a stone. A more tinted stone can appear softer to some people in terms of brightness... like a soft white light bulb compared to a blight white bulb. But that is IMO different than those quotes.

Why do people prefer colorless? Rarity, maybe a brighter white look, marketing, cultural values (e.g., a preference for "purity")... the list goes on.

 

[GreenBling]

I am always drawn to the whiter diamond so I know that's my preference. Can't explain why.

 

[chappy]

hmm. I was also told lower color diamonds would look more glassy. could there be any explanation for this?

 

[smilligan]

hmm. I was also told lower color diamonds would look more glassy. could there be any explanation for this?

If anything, it would be the other way around, IMO. I think that certain cuts (shallow?) cause a glassy, reflective appearance.

 

[Laila619]

A diamond's color does affect light return:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/light-performance-vs-color.127329/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/light-performance-vs-color.127329/[/URL]

 

[smilligan]

A diamond's color does affect light return:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/light-performance-vs-color.127329/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/light-performance-vs-color.127329/[/URL]

Quoted from that thread per "Oldminer": "Dr. Aggarwal, the principal of ImaGem, Inc., www.imageminc.com has advised me as follows: The light return from a D color identical in all respects to a G color would vary so little due to the color difference that it would be less than any machine error of the tool used to measure such a difference. So, in spite of what makes sense about absorption, there is no measure of less light return based on such minor color differences."

 

[leoshraeder]

From a scientific point of view, i think color does affect performance, however little. Let's use an extreme example. Even if a BLACK or DEEP BLUE round diamond was cut to ideal proportions. Put it beside a d colored diamond and I am sure you will see a massive difference.

 

[smilligan]

From a scientific point of view, i think color does affect performance, however little. Let's use an extreme example. Even if a BLACK or DEEP BLUE round diamond was cut to ideal proportions. Put it beside a d colored diamond and I am sure you will see a massive difference.

That's an entirely different subject, IMO. On the D-Z scale, I believe that the difference in light performance would be imperceptible to the human eye. Black diamonds have a different carbon structure and absorb light instead of reflecting/refracting it.

 

[arkieb1]

is there a reason other than color preference?

I mean, if all the other 3 C's were equal, would a warmer diamond perform worse than a colorless diamond? very curious and can't find any information on this topic. thanks!

I think it is two things one COST and then colour preference.

It depends how you define "performing worse." It is a scientific fact that the darker the diamond the more light it will absorb with a black diamond at one end of the spectrum and a pure ice white one at the other. What this means in layman's terms is a top cut D will return more white light to the human eye than a top cut M.

I am one of the people that rattles on about underlying tints, tones and body hues in diamonds - because I see them and they fascinate me. I have also observed this interesting debate that goes on here about the colour preference for most people and where their tolerance lies for colour. Another member (who I consider a friend) made the observation recently that her "colour boundary" if you like was at an "I" she said she thought stones appeared to have less fire to her at a "J" colour and I remarked at the time J and mid coloured stones don't have less fire as such they just have marginally less white light return.

So in answer to your question do warmer diamonds perform worse overall than a colourless diamond? I don't think there is a simple answer because the overall performance is greatly defined but the quality or lack thereof of the cut, the type of cut the diamond is, the clarity of it and so on. ALL of these things work in conjunction to produce the best looking diamonds.

I will give you a real world example. I own a transitional diamond that is a GIA graded J it has big chunky flashes of fire. If we are talking about pure sparkle and bling factor alone (which is what the average person notices) when I walk into a store and compare it side by side to a GIA graded triple Ex stone with an outstanding HCA it keeps up with it, in most cases it pumps out bigger more attention getting flashes of fire. People that work in the shops usually comment on it. Does it have a noticeable body colour that you can see - YES, does it have heaps of scintillation, fire and sparkle which is how the average person's eyes measure performance in a diamond - YES a ton of it, as much as any perfectly cut D and then some.

And now returning to your original question why do people want whiter diamonds? Not everyone does. Some want old cuts that frequently are difficult to find in higher colours and can have more character and charm not to mention pumping out huge rainbow flashes of light regardless of being mid to lower coloured. Some people want fancy colour diamonds, yellows, pinks, reds, blues, greens. Does having colour make them ugly? No, in fact it makes the better ones highly sort after.

Are modern cut diamonds nicer to look at in higher colours? Again the answer is subjective at best. A perfectly cut lower coloured modern cut can still be a stunning stone. I have different preferences/tolerances for colour in different diamond cuts. So do most people, they just don't realise it.

If everyone had a zillion buck or if D,E colour diamonds were cheaper would everyone own one? Probably, but there would still be a heap of people that preferred all the colours between a D and a Z and into the fancies as well. Having said that I have observed that many Asian countries, China for example do prefer to consume whiter colour diamonds. Marketing, prestige, the assumption of better quality all could be explanations for this.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I am in the G-H camp.

 

[sparkle45]

I don't know about the whole "light return" debate, but I think everyone has different sensitivities to the color. The same as how young, sharp eyes can see an inclusion at 10 inches away, while older eyes, or fuzzier eyes will need to be MUCH closer to see the same inclusion. So clarity is somewhat an individual thing, too, being somewhat dependent on sharpness of eyesight (to a point.)

I REALLY want to like lower color diamonds, because it's so much easier to find old cuts in those colors, and because the price point is more manageable. And, really, I DO like those colors... until I put them on my fingers. For some reason, I just really prefer the contrast of a really white diamond on my yellow-undertoned skin.

But photos of J-M OEC's and AC's are just TDF.

 

[Niel]

I have a K 5-stone and a marquise that's ungraded but I'd wager at LEAST a k.

I love them. I like the way they play with body color throughout the day.

They go from white to bone to who knows what amazing. Lol

Like others have said its aesthetic preference, marketing, and a rarity issue. You don't have to like them

 

[Polished]

I think there is a lot of conditioning that goes on with diamond colour. For instance, how often do we hear, Your G, H, I or J is going to face up white or a lot whiter once it is in it's setting" or the meant as a compliment, "I can't believe your diamond is a J, it looks so white". I'm not criticizing this, it's just that the goal of the exercise seems to be to satisfy the taken for granted desire for a "white" diamond but at a lower cost than actually buying a super white diamond. Or the popularity of getting diamonds of lower colour with fluorescence so they will face up whiter than a stone of the same colour grade without it. How often do you hear - "I think you're going to love the slight body colour you're going to see in your H coloured stone" (I have an H diamond and I love its colour, although I'm not free from loving the icy white diamonds too). Perhaps what people don't want is yellow diamonds more than they do want white ones.

 

[yssie]

From a scientific point of view, i think color does affect performance, however little. Let's use an extreme example. Even if a BLACK or DEEP BLUE round diamond was cut to ideal proportions. Put it beside a d colored diamond and I am sure you will see a massive difference.

That's an entirely different subject, IMO. On the D-Z scale, I believe that the difference in light performance would be imperceptible to the human eye. Black diamonds have a different carbon structure and absorb light instead of reflecting/refracting it.

I think I would have to disagree. Technically any visible colour means some wavelengths (and therefore some incident energy) is being absorbed - the longer the light path through the stone the more energy is absorbed, and the lower-energy the final output... texbooks aside though, I know that when comparing my well-cut J RB to a high-colour stone of similar size and proportions my J looked "dimmer" and "softer" - visibly less bright, and the higher colour also looked bigger thanks to looking brighter... That's only when the stones were loose side by side though - once set, or by itself, my J looks plenty big and bright and white to me!

 

[SB621]

I have GIA graded F, J, N/O and U/V plus a EGL graded O/P which I actually think would be GIA S/T. I actually perfer a touch of color. A white diamond just looks too stark to me. I tend to like diamonds in the J-P color. With mine (mix of MRB's to old cuts) I don't see less light performance in any of them due to color. If anything my U/V is one of the best performers.

However I understand that many people perfer white and when shopping for a diamond are also looking for best value. For that reason you do see a lot of "It looks so white, or once set this will be whiter" etc. I think there is a clear difference between those who like lower colors and then those who are trying to make mid range colors pass for higher. Obviously both are fine to do, it all comes down to personal preference.

 

[chappy]

I ask because I wanted lower color diamonds (KLM range) as sidestones to a pink centerstone, but was told that it may look 'glassy'. I just worry stark white diamonds might pop too much in a RG setting, and take away the focus from the pink centerstone. but these will be very small stones (four stones about 2mm in diameter each), so face-up it probably won't make any difference anyhow.

thanks for the very educational posts! I take it color has an effect, but very minimal, and lower-color diamonds do not necessarily have to be bad performers.

 

[gregchang35]

I think it has got to do with what ppl have been conditioned to wrt white diamonds. the glossy magazines always show WHITE diamonds, sometimes fancy coloured diamonds.

Ppl then see a few and the colour 'speaks' to them.

This is my experience with diamonds.

Firstly, i must say have not sat with a lot of diamonds in front of me so that i can say i prefer one over the other.

When i was looking for studs, i ended up with GIA E princess cut. the gemologist gave me the whitest looking ones and they were GIA E. and when i saw them, i said YEP they look great. so i didnt get to see any other colours to compare. i guess when you know something clicks, it clicks. When i got my asscher solitaire, cos i knew what the E princesses were like, i had to get the same colour... matchy kinda thing, i guess.

then i fell in love with OEC's. Now, I have an OEC which is IGI graded O but probably a GIA ST. I love it.

I have seen GIA I & P antique cushion and i love the warmth about them. I have not seen a whiter coloured antique cushion to compare the colours. Maybe its me- i think the antique cuts have a romaticism about them and the warm colours work for me- ivories, vanillas...But as i said i have not seen a whiter coloured antique cut to compare. I do love the AVRs and have seen the Gs and it is throwing out pastelly colours....Yummy...


Sooo... maybe i just like all colours.... hehehehee.

 

[SB621]

At 2mm I wouldn't bother. I have a 3 stone with 4mm-ish side stones. They are the same color as the center but appear much whiter (to my dismay) because larger diamonds hold more color.

 

[Niel]

I ask because I wanted lower color diamonds (KLM range) as sidestones to a pink centerstone, but was told that it may look 'glassy'. I just worry stark white diamonds might pop too much in a RG setting, and take away the focus from the pink centerstone. but these will be very small stones (four stones about 2mm in diameter each), so face-up it probably won't make any difference anyhow.

thanks for the very educational posts! I take it color has an effect, but very minimal, and lower-color diamonds do not necessarily have to be bad performers.

If you're only looking at 2mm each, you won't be noticing much color in the first place. I like your idea and if that's what you want you should do it. But if you want it to be noticeable I'd go larger. I'm trying to remembered if my side stones are 3mm or 3.5. I think 3..... the color seems to match my other larger K stones.

 

[TC1987]

is there a reason other than color preference?

I mean, if all the other 3 C's were equal, would a warmer diamond perform worse than a colorless diamond? very curious and can't find any information on this topic. thanks!

Here's an O IF that Good Old Gold had in stock for a long time, but never could sell as a modern H&A RB. They eventually recut it into an August Vintage RB and it was graded M after the recut and subsequently sold. As you can see, it certainly does not lack any fire. And it has great light return face-up. But it has unmistakable body tint, definitely yellow. If you look at the Gemex report, that stone looks "dark" in body tint / tone, doesn't it? http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/1702/ [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/who-bought-this-diamond.115517/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/who-bought-this-diamond.115517/[/URL]
Then compare it to this big G, which doesn't seem to be as "dark." http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5302/

It's my opinion that lots of people are drawn to the colorless and G range and maybe even H because subliminally the "whiter white" of them makes them appear larger to the eye at a glance. Maybe it provides more distinct contrast patterns to some eyes? I don't know. I have owned diamonds of varying colors down into the M/N range, and I think that all other things being equal, if two diamonds of say, E and J or K or lower are placed side by side, my eyes and brain will perceive the whiter white one as larger. If they are all exactly face-up and reflecting the max amount of brilliance, they might look pretty close. But the diamond doesn't always stay in that position when worn or viewed on the hand, and that's where the colorless and near colorless win out.

That's just my speculation. ymmv LOL

 

[yssie]

is there a reason other than color preference?

I mean, if all the other 3 C's were equal, would a warmer diamond perform worse than a colorless diamond? very curious and can't find any information on this topic. thanks!

Here's an O IF that Good Old Gold had in stock for a long time, but never could sell as a modern H&A RB. They eventually recut it into an August Vintage RB and it was graded M after the recut and subsequently sold. As you can see, it certainly does not lack any fire. And it has great light return face-up. But it has unmistakable body tint, definitely yellow. If you look at the Gemex report, that stone looks "dark" in body tint / tone, doesn't it? http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/1702/ [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/who-bought-this-diamond.115517/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/who-bought-this-diamond.115517/[/URL]
Then compare it to this big G, which doesn't seem to be as "dark." http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5302/

It's my opinion that lots of people are drawn to the colorless and G range and maybe even H because subliminally the "whiter white" of them makes them appear larger to the eye at a glance. Maybe it provides more distinct contrast patterns to some eyes? I don't know. I have owned diamonds of varying colors down into the M/N range, and I think that all other things being equal, if two diamonds of say, E and J or K or lower are placed side by side, my eyes and brain will perceive the whiter white one as larger. If they are all exactly face-up and reflecting the max amount of brilliance, they might look pretty close. But the diamond doesn't always stay in that position when worn or viewed on the hand, and that's where the colorless and near colorless win out.

That's just my speculation. ymmv LOL

Yup, I would agree with this because I've seen exactly the same thing comparing my J to higher coloured stones of similar size and with similar proportions. The brighter stones do look bigger to my eyes in this sort of side by side comparison.

ETA
TC - d'you have a link to the recut M? Face-up 'apparent' colour that can be manipulated by cut isn't supposed to play any part in grading diamonds in the D-Z range but it's interesting that the same lab can alter a stone's grade from O/P "Very Light" to an M "Faint" designation on re-submission - that's a two-grade difference and it crosses into a different range! OTOH maybe this far down the scale the two-grade difference has little effect on pricing either way... I'm not sure where prices start to rise again - S/Tish?

 

[AprilBaby]

My sweet spot is F because it's white without looking fake. Color lower than H I have seen is too dark for me , however I have never seen an ideal cut of that color. Maybe some people perceive high color as perfect or more expensive ( not me), therefore more desireable .

 

[Niel]

My sweet spot is F because it's white without looking fake. Color lower than H I have seen is too dark for me , however I have never seen an ideal cut of that color. Maybe some people perceive high color as perfect or more expensive ( not me), therefore more desireable .

That's funny because after looking at a lot of fancies recently. I do not like an f at all. I have no idea why. But when I see a color and I am a little turned off, usually an F. Maybe because its not stark or warm?

 

[Andelain]

I like my super whites because I prefer yellow gold. I think the whiter the stome, the more it pops agains a YG mount.

 

[Dreamer_D]

A diamond's color does affect light return:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/light-performance-vs-color.127329/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/light-performance-vs-color.127329/[/URL]

It may have a statistically significant effect, but the effect SIZE -- the magnitude and perhaps observability of the effect -- is very small as the people in that thread mentioned. Also, tint influences only one aspect of diamond performance, "light return", which is modified by so many other factors -- eye sight, preferences, expectations, cut type and quality... I think its misleading to say this (quote from the "sources" the OP is using): "The presence of noticeable color in a diamond may reduce its ability to reflect light. Consequently, diamonds with lower color grades will not show the same luminosity and fire as those with higher grades. The most valuable diamonds have little to no detectable color."

To quote Karl in that thread: "As to where the PS advise comes from it comes from this same topic reaching the same conclusions years ago.There is not a real world difference in the higher color grades H and up and very very little J and up. Not enough to matter much anyway."

So while it is true in an absolute sense that body tint will influence light return, from a practical diamond buying sense, any negative influence of tint is wildly over played in the media.