WhiteFlash VS Facets? HELP ME!

[MissAva]

April 27th
- I tell Lesley/WF I will be filing a report with the Better Business Bureau
- Lesley writes back saying she “welcomes my decision”
- I file the report
April 28th
- The BBB tells me that they have sent the matter on to Whiteflash
May 5th
- I post on PS that I have filed a report with the BBB
- Lesley posts that she knew ahead of time that I would be filing with the BBB
May 8th
- Lesley posts that she/WF has not received any notification from the BBB
- Lesley contradicts her earlier post and says she found out about my going forward with the BBB report here on PS

ETA: Email sent by Vera on May 1st, I reply saying that I have filed a BBB report.

 

[coda72]

Date: 5/8/2006 6:56:25 PM
Author: aljdewey

The point is this: either stop characterizing people for what they aren't, or back up your assertions.

Believe me....I know some will dismiss my points too (possibly present company included), but that doesn't make it a fruitless exercise.

And if the attitude is 'why bother', I'd suggest that perhaps that theme begin a bit earlier and just refrain from gross mischaracterizations in the first place.

Maybe you should take your own advice...

 

[pricescope]

For every body''s attention: We seriously insist that all members must refrain from personal attacks in this or any other thread. Any personal attack or insinuation will be deleted without further notice.

We reserve the right to ban any member without discussion. Please also report abuses and breaching of the policies without arguing in the threads.

 

[LesleyH]

Matatora:

As of yesterday''s mail we have not received any written notification from the BBB re: your complaint. Yes, I knew that you were going to contact the BBB, but did not know that you had proceeded to do so until I read about it right here on Pricescope. No contradictions.....

LesleyH
www.whiteflash.com

 

[MissAva]

Oh I missed that when I exchanged emails with Vera on the first of May that I mentioned the BBB report to her. I am sorry if she did not mention that to you. Also the BBB report was sent to ya''ll via email I think, but they say it was presented to you on the 28th.

 

[Gonzodogg]

Wow, I somehow missed this thread until today. Part of me wishes that I had missed it entirely, but now that I have taken the time to read everything, I feel compelled to jump in.

As someone who has worked with Whiteflash (and Lesley) very recently, I have a lot of great things to say about Whiteflash, the ring I purchased, and the people who work there. I also had a few problems with Whiteflash and for a while was very irratated with them. In the end Lesley and Leon took over and did whatever they could to make me confident in my purchase.

I understand why Matatora did not post all of her issues with Whiteflash as the occured - I too was hesitant to say anything when problems first occured becuase I know that John Q and all of Whiteflash read all of the forums and I did not want to complain, fearing that they would be angry that I said anything, making working with them far more difficult.
So on that issue, I totally understand where you are coming from Matatora.

For that same reason, I understand why some of the posters on this thread are seeing holes in your story and I understand their skepticism.

I will say that just from reading these and other threads, it seems that Matatora might be expecting a bit much from Whiteflash.

However, I do feel that Matatora is being unfairly judged here and there is a little bit of a "WF can do no wrong" attitude to some of the posts.

Please do not missunderstand, I am not trying to start up another argument, I simply want to throw in my .02 as someone who has worked with Whiteflash, has had pretty serious problems with Whiteflash, but in the end I look forward to working with Whiteflash in the future.

I will conclude by saying that I hope the BBB can resolve this issue fairly, and MORE IMPORTANTLY I hope Pricescope can remain an OPEN forum where everyone is free to post ALL opinions, good an bad.

 

[MissAva]

I stand corrected, I checked with the BBB and they mailed out on the 28th. Sorry!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/9/2006 6:47:06 PM
Author: Gonzodogg


However, I do feel that Matatora is being unfairly judged here and there is a little bit of a ''WF can do no wrong'' attitude to some of the posts.

I will conclude by saying that I hope the BBB can resolve this issue fairly, and MORE IMPORTANTLY I hope Pricescope can remain an OPEN forum where everyone is free to post ALL opinions, good an bad.

i think there are members that would be too afraid to post anything negative about WF b/c there''re so many WF supporters here on PS. i think we should hear the good and the bad about every vendor.

for the record....i''am a happy customer of WF and would buy from them again

infact i pick out a beautiful 1ct ES stone for my friend''s e-ring and would recommend WF along with GOG and Wink.

 

[SquareCut]

I don''t know if Mat is expecting too much from White Flash or not, but having her fingers bleed from the prongs, having a lose head on the ring, and then having her original engagement stone chipped would have upset anyone. If I were the vendor, I''d give her back her $2000 or whatever it was, and be done with it.

 

[pricescope]

Date: 5/9/2006 6:47:06 PM
Author: Gonzodogg

I will conclude by saying that I hope the BBB can resolve this issue fairly, and MORE IMPORTANTLY I hope Pricescope can remain an OPEN forum where everyone is free to post ALL opinions, good an bad.

Absolutely. It is unfortunate that some consumers don''t feel comfortable to post when they''re disappointed with their experience. As long as it is factual, first-hand experience, we encourage everybody to share it.

At the same time, we ask members to stay calm and constructive and not to turn against each other.

 

[Mara]

Date: 5/10/2006 7:25:57 PM
Author: SquareCut
I don't know if Mat is expecting too much from White Flash or not, but having her fingers bleed from the prongs, having a lose head on the ring, and then having her original engagement stone chipped would have upset anyone. If I were the vendor, I'd give her back her $2000 or whatever it was, and be done with it.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record....Whiteflash earlier said that they advanced Mata a credit of a few thousand dollars to use towards a larger, upgraded stone as was her wish after the stone was chipped. So they MORE than made good on the chipped stone issue. If they really were the devil, they just would have said OH SORRY and given her a 'like stone' and sent her on her merry way. But they wanted her to be happy, obviously.

They also are seemingly not on the same page with her as to why her fingers were bleeding and why the stone came loose in the head not once, but twice. So if they believe that the setting is NOT faulty, and she does...is it still appropriate to just refund her the money just to make the pain go away?

Some might say the answer is a resounding YES in the name of customer service. And WF does often do that, we hear those stories on here as well too. But I find it interesting that they are choosing to stand their ground on this one and not just capitulate. WF lover or not...isn't that just a little interesting to anyone else??? Just from a 'wonder why this time?' perspective. Anyone? Beuller?

Again, just my two cents, not like anyone really listens to me.

 

[SquareCut]

Mara,

I didn''t notice anyone calling White Flash the Devil. I think everyone respects them.

Do you mean they gave her a credit from the setting to put toward the new diamond? That would be appropriate.

Obviously it''s not Mat''s fault that the stone was loose in the head not once but twice. Think of how hard you are on your rings without the stone coming loose. As for her fingers bleeding, sounds like uneven prongs to me.

 

[Mara]

"Do you mean they gave her a credit from the setting to put toward the new diamond? That would be appropriate."

I don't know if it was as credit for the setting or what. But I would assume not or else she wouldn't be taking her case to the BBB because they didn't give her a refund on the setting. The vibe I got was that because they chipped her stone, they gave her a few thousand bucks towards another stone as a 'make good' for what happened. Which seems like they went that extra mile there to make her happy.

"Obviously it's not Mat's fault that the stone was loose in the head not once but twice. "

I'm curious how you know that obviously it's not her fault? I mean *I* don't know it's OBVIOUSLY not her fault. I don't think any consumer here knows, because we aren't jewelers, we didn't see the ring or the stone, plain and simple, we just don't know the whole story like the people involved can.

And actually since you mentioned it, my stone DOES come loose in my head typically about once a year. I *am* hard on my ring. As a result I have to get the prongs checked and tightened on the stone and I know this. It's part of wear and tear. When I got my ring at my old jeweler, he told me the same thing...stones can come loose, get the prongs checked. No biggie.

But, if you have read the previous posts here, you may realize that there seems to be some confusion between the two parties on how the stone became loose in the head. In terms of fault or blame or whatever, we can all speculate...and we all have been, but the reality is that neither you nor I really know what happened. That is kind of my whole point to my point of view where I hesitate to just say Oh WF should just give Mata her money back. Because we don't know the whole story. I personally think it's disappointing that this whole relationship has deteriorated thus so, but what can you do? WF is doing what they feel is right...as is Matatora.

I think it will be interesting to find out what the final BBB ruling is...either way. Esp as I don't know that any member has taken a PS vendor to BBB before? Ground breaking really.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 5/10/2006 07:25:57 PM
Author: SquareCut

I don't know if Mat is expecting too much from White Flash or not, but having her fingers bleed from the prongs, having a lose head on the ring, and then having her original engagement stone chipped would have upset anyone. If I were the vendor, I'd give her back her $2000 or whatever it was, and be done with it.

Many in this thread have voiced opinions that it appears WF hasn't done anything (or hasn't done enough) to make Matatora happy. Comments have ranged from "they are likely making money off this with insurance" to "they should just refund the $2k and be done with it".

Date: 5/10/2006 08:31:22 PM
Author: Mara

At the risk of sounding like a broken record....Whiteflash earlier said that they advanced Mata a credit of a few thousand dollars to use towards a larger, upgraded stone as was her wish after the stone was chipped. So they MORE than made good on the chipped stone issue.

As Mara mentions above, WF noted that they allowed a few thousand dollars credit to make things right. I think that may have been overlooked, though, considering Matatora's earlier assertion in the thread that she had 'paid for the upgrade'.

Date: 5/5/2006 6:02:51 PM
Author: Matatora

(Oh and Miss Belle I did after all pay for the upgrade)

I can see where such opposing statements would be confusing, but the answer really can be found in other threads. https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/irony-of-never-wanting-to-change-new-stone.42577/page-4



Here is Mat's original stone - Price $11,931 - (that is full price; with the typical PS discount of roughly 3%, it would come down to about $11,600)
http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-2045481.htm

Here is the stone that she asked them to send to her as a possible replacement - Price $14,859
http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=AGS-5949904#

Here is the stone Matatora finally chose as her replacement - Price $16,565
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-1732621.htm#

Date: 3/29/2006 11:30:04 AM
Author: Matatora

Okay I am sending the 2.225 back to WF. I am going to pay the 1621$ difference between that and the 2.162

So, by her statement, what Mat actually paid for was the $1621 difference between the stone she ultimately selected as the replacement and the one that was offered by WF as a replacement. $16,565 minus $1,621 leaves $14,944.....which can only mean the amount credited was roughly $3300 more than her original purchase price.

For those who find significance in the math, that amounts to a credit allowance of more than 25% over the original purchase price. It's hard to see where WF hasn't tried to make her more than whole based on these figures. It's also tough for me to imagine they are "making money" on the deal considering the already low mark-ups on online stones.

Whether or not these gestures were 'enough' can only really be determined by the two parties involved. Having said that, I can see where some opinions may have been formed by readers in this thread based on conflicting and seemingly contradictory information.

 

[diamondlove]

I really haven''t been a part of this forum very long and have continued to follow this thread bc some of you guys are fascinatingly onesided despite your disclaimers to the contrary. Chipping the stone is obviously WF''s fault (I don''t think there''s been a question here) so the money that was credited towards Mat was addressing the chipped stone issue (or at least it appears that way to me but I of course am far from being an expert on this thread). If I am not mistaken, chipping a stone is a pretty big deal and, fine, WF was great and did the right thing and made her happy. However, it sounds to me like the whole BBB issue concerns the setting and is unrelated to the chipped stone issue.

Like most people have said on this thread numerous times already -- we do NOT know who is at fault and it does not sound like a solution has been found by the two parties so therefore we should all wait and see what happens with the BBB route. Even the BBB is not the end all and will not be the absolute solution but I hope that a somewhat happy compromise can be reached and everyone can be at peace because this thread has shown some pretty ugly sides of people out here. I started out thinking pretty highly of the people on this forum for being so helpful and generous with their time but it''s pretty absurd when people get so defensive on behalf of a business when they are perfectly able and willing to fend for themselves.

I do not think any less or any better than WF or MATATORA bc they have had their issues and I think it''s educational for us to hear experiences (as mentioned before) BUT it''s the almost fanatical representation on here by some of the posters that are very disturbing and almost cult like that is scarying me off of this forum. You say a negative thing and BOOM you are accused of having timed it exactly this way or that and making this thing up or that. Listen to yourselves please and see how rational u sound.

I appreciate all of the help and education I have obtained on here but I will go back to being an occasional lurker now.

 

[Mara]

if attempting to see both sides of the story rather than just jumping on the 'you got screwed' bandwagon is called 'fanatical representation'...then color me a fanatic baby.

i'm now off to burn my nightly token sacrifice in worship of WF.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 5/11/2006 12:41:50 AM
Author: diamondlove
BUT it''s the almost fanatical representation on here by some of the posters that are very disturbing and almost cult like that is scarying me off of this forum. You say a negative thing and BOOM you are accused of having timed it exactly this way or that and making this thing up or that. Listen to yourselves please and see how rational u sound.

I appreciate all of the help and education I have obtained on here but I will go back to being an occasional lurker now.

Please don''t be "scared" off this forum Diamondlove. I think the WF supporters, while very vocal in their support (and these posters are affectionately known to be vocal about LOTS of things, not just WF) have reasons for this.

I am totally up in the air about this debate, and would prefer to see how it all pans out. I can only say from my experience from Whiteflash that it was excellent. They are in no way perfect, and I think past customers of Whiteflash would agree. They have a lot of business coming their way and are probably suffering growing pains. I can''t even say honestly if they are fair or not, since I have not come across any big issues with them.

However, I can honestly say that the customer service they have shown me has been FANTASTIC. From Bob to Lesley to Leon to Vera...they are so pleasant and overly cautious to make sure their customers are happy. I even posted today about Leon, and how cautious he was about making sure I was OK on how he was setting my diamond. Check out this link to see what a great job he did, and what the issue was. I will see the ring soon, so I will reserve final judgment until I see it, but so far I am very happy.

I have realistic expectations. Sometimes I had to follow up with Bob and not vice versa. But he always responded, and FAST. I also have purchased a diamond for my mother...but I chose not to go to WF for this diamond. Not because I thought anything was wrong with them, but because Mark Turnowski at ERD had found a diamond for me (but I went with the one I found on WF''s site) and Mark is also wonderful. Hey, I believe in spreading the wealth! I''ll also post a "comparison" of WF and ERD in the next few days...they were totally different experiences, with respect to logistics.

My point is I do not believe that the WF supporters are some brainwashed cult. They are supporters because they have been wonderfully supported. Being in the business world with a big company, I realize more and more that simple things like reciprocating communication is NOT a given. WF has been really superior in this regard.

I would like to think that I am a fan, but that I am not going to be found covered in a purple shroud and black Nike''s anytime soon.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 5/11/2006 12:58:39 AM
Author: TravelingGal

I think the WF supporters, while very vocal in their support (and these posters are affectionately known to be vocal about LOTS of things, not just WF) have reasons for this.

TravelingGal.....you really restore my faith. Thanks for seeing the "forest" and not just the "trees".

Date: 5/11/2006 12:58:39 AM
Author: TravelingGalI would like to think that I am a fan, but that I am not going to be found covered in a purple shroud and black Nike's anytime soon.

Ok, you had me up until this....heheheeeee. You must don the shroud....not for a vendor, but to be part of the diamond-worshippers club!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 5/11/2006 1:07:56 AM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 5/11/2006 12:58:39 AM
Author: TravelingGalI would like to think that I am a fan, but that I am not going to be found covered in a purple shroud and black Nike''s anytime soon.

Ok, you had me up until this....heheheeeee. You must don the shroud....not for a vendor, but to be part of the diamond-worshippers club!

Oh, no way....I can''t. I hate purple. Make it green and throw in your halo necklace and maybe we''ll have a deal.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 5/11/2006 1:11:56 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Oh, no way....I can't. I hate purple. Make it green and throw in your halo necklace and maybe we'll have a deal.

*GASP*.....my HALO?????

Uh.....SORRY.....no go.

I'll concede on the green, but you'll have to pry the halo off my cold, dead body (once I get it back - lol)

Do I get points if I can convince Kaleigh to loan you HER halo on time-share when it's done????

 

[Mara]

TG my dear...do you want some lemon-flavored kool-aid? C'mon you know you wanna.

Teasing aside, that was a fabulous post....honestly it's not surprising that I am continuously labeled something I'm really not. It's nothing I haven't heard before. Now honestly, with my kind of personality, do you really think I could be a follower of ANYONE? Not likely. I'm sure Greg wishes I was more pliant. HEE. But I have long since learned that people will choose to believe whatever they want to and I can't change that, so it's cool.

However, people's misconceptions will NEVER stop me from calling it like I see it. No one has to agree with me, I don't really care. Ask my darling husband, I am like a dog with a bone when I feel I'm right. I speak from many actual experiences here with them. I know they aren't perfect, I think I said that FIVE times by now? But I like to think I am also intelligent enough to question things that don't make sense to me.

Damn...I'm all distracted now! My ritual sacrifice burnt the house down!!! See what ya'll made me do?!?!?!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 5/11/2006 1:20:15 AM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 5/11/2006 1:11:56 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Oh, no way....I can't. I hate purple. Make it green and throw in your halo necklace and maybe we'll have a deal.

*GASP*.....my HALO?????

Uh.....SORRY.....no go.

I'll concede on the green, but you'll have to pry the halo off my cold, dead body (once I get it back - lol)

Do I get points if I can convince Kaleigh to loan you HER halo on time-share when it's done????

OK, I can deal with green (as long as it's sage green)...and uh...how about a martini?

ETA...yes, you get points if you can do that....I love everyone's diamonds here! But I'll be happy to have one given to me by my loved one.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 5/11/2006 1:20:41 AM
Author: Mara
TG my dear...do you want some lemon-flavored kool-aid? C''mon you know you wanna.

As long as I can snort the powder straight up and not have to drink it. Why not go all out?

As for a dog to a bone...my boyfriend always says that about me. I think he''s "arfed" at me a few times. He''s been absolutely fascinated by me with this whole diamond research/we can''t ripped off thing...

Speaking of which, it''s late and I''m still posting. Can you tell I''m super excited to get my own little rock tomorrow?

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 5/11/2006 1:22:54 AM
Author: TravelingGal

OK, I can deal with green (as long as it''s sage green)...and uh...how about a martini?

Deal. I just met this girl, Appletini, and she can hook you up with a GREEN martini! PERFECT!

OOOOoooo - tomorrow is the day??!! You must be TANKED!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 5/11/2006 1:26:04 AM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 5/11/2006 1:22:54 AM
Author: TravelingGal

OK, I can deal with green (as long as it''s sage green)...and uh...how about a martini?

Deal. I just met this girl, Appletini, and she can hook you up with a GREEN martini! PERFECT!

OOOOoooo - tomorrow is the day??!! You must be TANKED!

Yes, I am excited...but more to finally have this "engagement" official and get on with the marriage already. I wasn''t like this until we decided to get married...I''m kind of a go getter that way.

But diamonds are pretty, no doubt. No matter how big or small, it just makes you feel so glamorous, and every girl could use a little glamour in her life!

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 5/11/2006 1:28:30 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Yes, I am excited...but more to finally have this ''engagement'' official and get on with the marriage already. I wasn''t like this until we decided to get married...I''m kind of a go getter that way.

I can relate.....believe me! LOL

Can''t wait to see PICS! Don''t forget we need pics....or we''ll have to repo the shroud!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 5/11/2006 1:30:07 AM
Author: aljdewey


I can relate.....believe me! LOL

Can''t wait to see PICS! Don''t forget we need pics....or we''ll have to repo the shroud!

I will, I promise! I am a big believer in giving back, and I have gotten so much from searches on this forum. I want to leave something for the archives for that next person who does a search...

And ajdewey, I have been reading this forum on and off for two years...I KNOW how you gals need pics! Between hand shots and oxygen, most would go hand shots!!!!

 

[Mara]

TG I can''t wait to see your fab new ring girl....don''t forget that post-its make fabulous photo accessories.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/11/2006 1:20:41 AM
Author: Mara
However, people''s misconceptions will NEVER stop me from calling it like I see it. No one has to agree with me, I don''t really care. Ask my darling husband, I am like a dog with a bone when I feel I''m right. I speak from many actual experiences here with them. I know they aren''t perfect, I think I said that FIVE times by now? But I like to think I am also intelligent enough to question things that don''t make sense to me.

Damn...I''m all distracted now! My ritual sacrifice burnt the house down!!! See what ya''ll made me do?!?!?!

i disagree with Mara and Alj many times on different topics

i''m the only one that have enough guts to post our difference of opinions.

but i also acknowledge when i agree with them.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I''m not taking sides either because I''m not even sure of the facts anymore. I was thinking that extending credit means that they allowed her to pay in installments the difference in the cost of the diamonds. Honestly, if a vendor accidentally chips a diamond, I only see the responsible for replacing the diamond with one of equal value. I can see giving a small allowance for the inconvenience.

But if this happened to me, and WF indeed allowed me have a diamond that was worth close to $5000 more and only made me pay $1600, they would be my very best friend FOREVER!!!!!

That''s the best customer service I''ve ever heard of in my life. I''d like this to be clarified, because it sounds too good to be true.