Sacrifice color for size?

[Rod]

Date: 3/23/2006 2:59:06 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 3/22/2006 5:42:03 PM
Author: Kaleidoscopic
The only people that are vain to me are people that have a large frozen spit as their e-ring.

What about those that have small but ''D'' frozen spit rings? Badly cut & full of inclusions? Just ''cause it''s rare doesn''t mean someone didn''t mess that sucker up badly -- just check out Ebay''s extensive collection of ''D''s.

"Frozen Spit Rings." What do you say to someone who proudly shows you their "Frozen Spit Ring?" For example, my doctor''s admin recently received an engagement ring. The diamond in that ring is the cloudiest frozen spit diamond I''ve ever seen. There''s nothing in that stone that even resembles a sparkle. But, she''s so very proud of the ring and I just couldn''t bring myself to say it was beautiful, so all I could say was "Wow!!! Look at that Diamond!!" And she just beamed.

 

[princessv]

GemKlctr, Lorelei and Deanna thank you guys for not letting me second guess myself like I was before

I think part of it maybe a huge part, is that she didn't get a say in picking out my ring whereas she was overly involved before!

I love well cut 'lower colored' diamonds besides at some point those diamonds get considered fancy! I'd have never believed lmurden's ring was an I color if she never told me before! Happy Birthday again Deanna

 

[Kay]

Date: 3/22/2006 1:53:28 PM
Author: Small
Wow...vain is such a strong word

I have a D color and that''s because I have a marquise and it NEEDS a D in order to look good IMO. But I just received my RB today (pictures to come

) and it''s a G. I looked at them both side by side...yes, you can see a bit of color difference but it''s very, very slight. My D is super white and my G is white. Maybe I''m cheap because I didn''t get the D color this time...well I consider myself lucky. I got an amazing stone with still great color for a great price! I''m not willing to pay thousands extra for the D color when it''ll sparkle and look just the same. I have to agree with Mara here...if it''s vain to need a bigger diamond then it''s vain to need a D color. I''d take a bigger lower colored stone over D color anyday. Being a D owner myself...I just don''t see that it''s such a big deal and I consider myself much more color sensitive than clarity. My 2c...it''s a bit judgemental to think someone didn''t do their homework or were being cheap because they didn''t for higher color. Maybe that''s just their preference...we all have them

Small, I''m in the same boat. I have a D marquise that I adore. I had both a D and an F sent to me to preview, and I could tell the color difference face up in the loose stones. Part of the difference might be that the D has medium blue fluorescence. My appraiser was blown away by the color -- he said it looks even whiter than a D. LOL

I am now thinking about buying an RB for a pendant. I think I can safely go a bit higher in color with a very well cut RB than with the marquise. G is probably my upper limit, though (preferably with some nice blue fluor). When we were looking for my e-ring, we saw an I color Eightstar. The fire of that stone blew me away, but I could see a slight yellow tint and it bothered me. I am cursed with a very color sensitive eye (for fabrics, paint, etc., too, not just diamonds).

 

[researcher]

I find this whole thread really funny. In my diamond search, I had started out thinking color was really important. But, every time I put a D-F on my finger, it always looked warm! Why? The undertones in my skin!!! So, I started thinking it was pointless for me to pay for something that wouldn''t look icy white on me anyway (at least when I''m not tan). Now, can I tell the difference in color in MOST stones? Yes. I do see the warmth. BUT, I get tripped up when comparing well cut stones with poorly cut stones face up. It really is amazing how much of a difference cut makes.

Anyway, once I found PS and found out how important cut is that''s all that mattered to me. I would have taken a smaller stone (around 2-2.5cts) if it had been the best princess I could find, but fortunately for me (someone who likes big diamonds) the 3.22 ct stone was the one with the best cut.

The funniest thing is that, once people have asked the size of my stone, they then ask if my stone is an F or G in color because they say they''ve never seen a stone as nice or bright. So, I get some of the same comments that those of you with D colored stones get. I honestly think people can tell when a stone is well cut but sometimes attribute it to the wrong thing (in my experience they think color and/or clarity is what makes my stone so bright and full of fire).

 

[squarediamondlove]

Date: 3/23/2006 2:59:06 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 3/22/2006 5:42:03 PM

Author: Kaleidoscopic

The only people that are vain to me are people that have a large frozen spit as their e-ring.

What about those that have small but ''D'' frozen spit rings? Badly cut & full of inclusions? Just ''cause it''s rare doesn''t mean someone didn''t mess that sucker up badly -- just check out Ebay''s extensive collection of ''D''s.

My applogies, I didn''t mean to be bias. Of course, small ''D'' frozen spit rings fall into this category as well

, yet somehow it seems more of a stupid decision rather than a vain one. I guess the one thing everyone agrees on is that cut can really make or break the diamond. Just to be clear, when I refer to sacrificing size for the color I assume that the cut quality would remain equal.

Researcher, out of curiosity, what is the color of your skin tone? Its interesting how tanning makes a difference. My diamond looks absolutely white and stunning with a tan. It even looks BIGGER because of the contrast.

When I visited GOG with a friend, I saw several ideal cut princesses, ranging between an E to I color and the one that grabbed my eye the most and the one that I favored over all others (including the E and F color stones) was actually an I color AGS0 princess. I could still see the difference in color however the cut was so beautiful that I was not as bothered by the color (plus it did look more like a H/G)

 

[Mara]

Researcher, I totally agree that people have no idea what they are looking at in a diamond in general on someone''s hand, and they typically think it must be a ''colorless'' stone or something if it looks bright and white and sparkly. I definitely don''t think that the average consumer goes ''oh you must have a really well cut stone''!

I also do think that the skin tones make a difference, I always have a ''tan'' and esp in the head of summer after going on a trip or something, my diamond looks like white as snow against my hand, so in a way I think the warmer skin tones do help out with making a diamond look whiter as well. Guess I lucked out there considering I like em big..hahaha.

 

[Lynn B]

Something else I think is interesting... some of the experts here have said several times that in totally low-tech, unscientific

"studies" that when shown an array of ideal-cut stones (but not told anything about color), many people will often pick the lower-color diamonds as their preference. I can see that - there is a richness and a depth of color in the fire of my J that I think is just beautiful.

 

[klavigne]

I''d be really interested to know that if the people who are very color sensitive have light colored eyes or not. I read somewhere a long time ago that the people with the lightest colored eyes (blues and greens) are more sensitive to color than people with darker colored eyes (brown and black).

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/24/2006 8:33:30 AM
Author: klavigne
I'd be really interested to know that if the people who are very color sensitive have light colored eyes or not. I read somewhere a long time ago that the people with the lightest colored eyes (blues and greens) are more sensitive to color than people with darker colored eyes (brown and black).

WE COULD DO A POLL!!!!!!

Interesting point actually Klavigne, I like warmer colours and have light colour eyes.

 

[f0rbidden]

I have brown eyes and am very color sensitive.
My husband is Dutch and has VERY icey blue eyes..says he couldn''t tell the difference in the color between the D and the F stones we saw, but he COULD tell the difference in the cut and the way the light was refracting.

 

[Lynn B]

That is interesting.

I have light green eyes and like warmer colored diamonds.

 

[coda72]

I have light colored eyes, and I am somewhat color sensitive. I haven''t seen a D and and F side by side, so I don''t know if I can tell the difference, but I can see the difference between an F and an H. I also prefer the whiter diamonds. If money were no object, I would always purchase D, E, or F diamonds.

 

[Rod]

I have hazel eyes and I''m afraid I can not discern minor differences in diamond colors. I can see the difference between a D and K. In well cut stones, I simply can''t see differences between an F and a G. My G colored stone looks completely white to me. I can not see any hint of color in the stone. I compared my stone to an E and an F and I still didn''t see any color difference. I do have good color perception and I do think I''m pretty sensitive to color. In the case of diamonds, I''m afraid my "X-Ray Color Detectors" obviously don''t work as well as others.

 

[belle]

Date: 3/24/2006 1:24:24 PM
Author: Rod
I have hazel eyes and I'm afraid I can not discern minor differences in diamond colors. I can see the difference between a D and K. In well cut stones, I simply can't see differences between an F and a G. My G colored stone looks completely white to me. I can not see any hint of color in the stone. I compared my stone to an E and an F and I still didn't see any color difference. I do have good color perception and I do think I'm pretty sensitive to color. In the case of diamonds, I'm afraid my 'X-Ray Color Detectors' obviously don't work as well as others.

nice post rod.
i really don't think anyone can differentiate minor differences in color, even though these 'grades' make us think we can. it's hard to remember sometimes that we are looking at ROCKS formed billions of years ago by organic elements. they are all unique and different. there is no one set group of colors, just millions of combinations of similarities that we try to group together in a uniform set.
no wonder labs don't always agree about which is which.

 

[Mara]

Date: 3/24/2006 6:53:43 AM
Author: Lynn B
Something else I think is interesting... some of the experts here have said several times that in totally low-tech, unscientific

''studies'' that when shown an array of ideal-cut stones (but not told anything about color), many people will often pick the lower-color diamonds as their preference. I can see that - there is a richness and a depth of color in the fire of my J that I think is just beautiful.

True Lynn, Brian told me once that when people come in to look at stones, he sometimes puts out 4-5 or similar of all ideal cut beautiful stones and asks people to choose which ones they like the best. He said that something like 4 out of 5 times, people choose the lower colored stones (aka an I or a J) as looking more appealing to them, rather than the D or E stones in the lot.

That is why sometimes I wonder if it''s just a mental thing, with perception, aka if you know you are looking at a D does your mind MAKE it look more colorless and same with something like a J, does your mind make it look more tinted than it possible MAY be. Your mind has alot of power over your mind, so I wouldn''t be surprised if this is something that does happen from time to time and that is why when possibly people DON''T know what color things are they are apt to think they are better colored than they are.

When we were there at WF I had the 6 or 7 ES and ACA stones out in front of me and I chose the 2.13 J as being most appealing to me, that''s now JCrow''s stone. I also could tell which one was the D with med blue fluor after staring at them for a long time.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/24/2006 1:39:54 PM
Author: Mara

Date: 3/24/2006 6:53:43 AM
Author: Lynn B
Something else I think is interesting... some of the experts here have said several times that in totally low-tech, unscientific

''studies'' that when shown an array of ideal-cut stones (but not told anything about color), many people will often pick the lower-color diamonds as their preference. I can see that - there is a richness and a depth of color in the fire of my J that I think is just beautiful.

True Lynn, Brian told me once that when people come in to look at stones, he sometimes puts out 4-5 or similar of all ideal cut beautiful stones and asks people to choose which ones they like the best. He said that something like 4 out of 5 times, people choose the lower colored stones (aka an I or a J) as looking more appealing to them, rather than the D or E stones in the lot.

That is why sometimes I wonder if it''s just a mental thing, with perception, aka if you know you are looking at a D does your mind MAKE it look more colorless and same with something like a J, does your mind make it look more tinted than it possible MAY be. Your mind has alot of power over your mind, so I wouldn''t be surprised if this is something that does happen from time to time and that is why when possibly people DON''T know what color things are they are apt to think they are better colored than they are.

When we were there at WF I had the 6 or 7 ES and ACA stones out in front of me and I chose the 2.13 J as being most appealing to me, that''s now JCrow''s stone. I also could tell which one was the D with med blue fluor after staring at them for a long time.

I think we have been conditioned for so long that icy white or colourless diamonds are best, that it can be hard to let go of that mindset, but it is so good to be able to appreciate all the colours available and be able to go warmer to get SIZE!

 

[Mara]

haha just noticed i said ''your mind has alot of power over your mind''...i meant to say your mind has alot of power (in how it shows you things, your eyes are just the vessel for viewing). der! not enough coffee!

 

[Lynn B]

Mara,
I so agree with you. With all due respect to my fellow PSers who love and "swear by" D/E/F, etc., diamonds

I, personally, have come to believe that in general, the differences between color grades is just sooooo miniscule... that to many people, it is simply a non-issue. I have said it before and I''ll say it again... well cut I/J and even K stones are super "white" and surely gorgeous. I honestly just do not think that people looking at those stones set in rings see anything but beauty and sparkle. And also, I''m just greedy enough

to be quite happy that some people do choose the higher color diamonds, because... that leaves more of the others for... ME!

 

[f0rbidden]

LOL Lynn

i feel the exact opposite! i''m glad a lot of people choose ''lower'' color stones, so there''s more D''s for me to choose from.
Of course, I also am not an RB diamond fan, so that makes me strange in and of itself. And, like many people have said many many times - RB''s handle light differently than fancy cuts, so a lot of the time H/I or even J colors in a RB will face up white, while in the ECs that I adore, they might look a little on the yellowy side.

different strokes for different folks, right? that''s what makes diamonds so much fun!

 

[squarediamondlove]

I completely agree with Forbidden,

I think a distinction should be made between RBs and fancies. Fancies look a lot better in colorless than rounds do, especially pear shapes, which shows color more than other cuts. ECs in my opinion look best in colorless, while I do think its a more subjective judgement call with RBs.

When shopping for my friend''s e-ring a couple next to us were selecting a three-stone emerald ring. The sales lady brought them 2 rings exactly same size, but one had E colored stones, while the other had H colored stones. The difference was apparent and I don''t think the preference for the E color was as subjective as lining up round stones of different colors. Most people would choose the E if money was no object b/c it looked more crystal like - it just has more of that look that you want to achive when getting an emerald.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 3/24/2006 8:03:33 PM
Author: f0rbidden
a little on the yellowy side.

Respectfully I''d just like to remind everyone that "tint" isn''t always or even most often "yellow" ... I''ve been lucky enough to see a lot of "greyish" I/J/K stones that look AMAZING in platinum.

 

[squarediamondlove]

To make another point...

Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate beautifully cut I/J/K stones, but even If color didn't bother me and the stone was stunning, I still wouldn't get it because I would feel that others wouldn't be able to look past the color to appreciate the beauty I see in it. Kind of like PrincessV's mother. I was in Fortuneoff admiring the beautifully cut 4ct assher (J color) and I asked to look at it. The sales lady, while pulling out the stone, said "you don't want that stone its bad, look how yellow it is." She didn't care how well cut it was, just that it looked yellow.

I wouldn't want to spend all that money to have a beautifully cut J stone and for others to simply disregard its value solely on its color. Some people won't go past the color to see the beauty of the cut. (But, again RBs are a bit different b/c the I/J/K color is not as apparent as in fancies.)

Just a curiouse question...for those that say that a colorless stone is no more beautiful than a lower color grade diamond and the difference is simply enforced in our minds by our society, would any of you then consider getting a M or a Q colored stone since this would really maximize size? If not, why not?

 

[Mara]

Date: 3/24/2006 8:57:21 PM
Author: Kaleidoscopic
To make another point...

Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate beautifully cut I/J/K stones, but even If color didn't bother me and the stone was stunning, I still wouldn't get it because I would feel that others wouldn't be able to look past the color to appreciate the beauty I see in it. Kind of like PrincessV's mother. I was in Fortuneoff admiring the beautifully cut 4ct assher (J color) and I asked to look at it. The sales lady, while pulling out the stone, said 'you don't want that stone its bad, look how yellow it is.' She didn't care how well cut it was, just that it looked yellow.

I wouldn't want to spend all that money to have a beautifully cut J stone and for others to simply disregard its value solely on its color. Some people won't go past the color to see the beauty of the cut. (But, again RBs are a bit different b/c the I/J/K color is not as apparent as in fancies.)

Just a curiouse question...for those that say that a colorless stone is no more beautiful than a lower color grade diamond and the difference is simply enforced in our minds by our society, would any of you then consider getting a M or a Q colored stone since this would really maximize size? If not, why not?

See I personally could care less what others think of the 'value' of my stone, I don't have to please anyone with it but myself and my husband. Everyone else can take a hike.

I would totally consider an ideal-cut M diamond, if I had had the $$ last year to do my upgrade I would have bought Stephan's 3c M round brilliant if I could have! That thing was a knockout. A Q I would probably not be interested in, because if I was going to go down that far on the color scale for a diamond, I'd actually just get a Y-Z light yellow.

The color scale is large, and I don't think anyone here is saying that a O is the same as a D....but when you are in the near colorless range like I and J, color is still VERY HARD to see for most people. An O may be a different story.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 3/24/2006 8:57:21 PM
Author: Kaleidoscopic
I would feel that others wouldn''t be able to look past the color to appreciate the beauty I see in it. I wouldn''t want to spend all that money to have a beautifully cut J stone and for others to simply disregard its value solely on its color.

Isn''t this exactly the "vanity" issue you claimed had NOTHING to do with picking a D/E/F.

As to the M, Q, Z whatever ... everyone picks a color they like. A "sweet spot" that works for their eye, their skin & their cut of choice. For me: it''s "H". I just like it.

 

[squarediamondlove]

Date: 3/24/2006 9:07:26 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 3/24/2006 8:57:21 PM

Author: Kaleidoscopic

I would feel that others wouldn''t be able to look past the color to appreciate the beauty I see in it. I wouldn''t want to spend all that money to have a beautifully cut J stone and for others to simply disregard its value solely on its color.

Isn''t this exactly the ''vanity'' issue you claimed had NOTHING to do with picking a D/E/F.

No I said the reason I prefer the D/E/F color is because the color bothers ME PERSONALY in an H/I/J color stone. This has nothing to do with what others think of it, but what I am comfortable with. My point was that even if those colors wouldn''t bother me, I may still not get it because I don''t want people to disregard it. Heck if it was only about what others though I would definately go for the G/H/I, (Si clarity) range since I would get a bigger stone and other poeple wouldn''t know the difference anyway.

 

[Gemklctr]

Date: 3/24/2006 8:57:21 PM
Author: Kaleidoscopic
To make another point...

Don''t get me wrong, I do appreciate beautifully cut I/J/K stones, but even If color didn''t bother me and the stone was stunning, I still wouldn''t get it because I would feel that others wouldn''t be able to look past the color to appreciate the beauty I see in it. Kind of like PrincessV''s mother. I was in Fortuneoff admiring the beautifully cut 4ct assher (J color) and I asked to look at it. The sales lady, while pulling out the stone, said ''you don''t want that stone its bad, look how yellow it is.'' She didn''t care how well cut it was, just that it looked yellow.

I wouldn''t want to spend all that money to have a beautifully cut J stone and for others to simply disregard its value solely on its color. Some people won''t go past the color to see the beauty of the cut. (But, again RBs are a bit different b/c the I/J/K color is not as apparent as in fancies.)

Just a curiouse question...for those that say that a colorless stone is no more beautiful than a lower color grade diamond and the difference is simply enforced in our minds by our society, would any of you then consider getting a M or a Q colored stone since this would really maximize size? If not, why not?

Absolutely. I was offered a tremendous (50+% below RAP) deal on a 4.81ct VS2 "M" colored round diamond by a vendor who knew I was looking for a reasonably priced large stone for my collection, and I snapped it up. It''s well cut, bright and brilliant, and very impressive in presentation (11mm). I set it in 2-tone gold with 2+cts of G-H princess and round diamonds. My mother wore it to a "bonko" party the other night and the person most impressed by it was the one with a 5 ctw (3-1-1) three stone ring that is all E and F colors (I helped her husband put it together so I know all the specs). Well cut diamonds have their own intrinsic beauty no matter what color they are. Frankly, I get extra satisfaction from knowing I got a good deal on a diamond that by any objective standard looks great (and size is a very legitimate part of that "look"), and would not pay any attention to someone who ignorantly tries to artificially limit the definition of a "quality diamond" to some narrower range than, for example, the RAP Report, which rates diamonds down to M color. People are entitled to their own personal preferences regarding diamond color, but they cannot independently legitimize an incorrect characterization of the colors they happen not to prefer.

Just to be clear K - I, and you above, are talking about other people like that saleslady, not you.

 

[decodelighted]

Kaleidescope -- I give up. I just don''t think we understand each other.

IMO ya either CARE what others think or DON''T. (about SIZE, COLOR whatever)

 

[marriahlyn]

If the specs were closer to the same, I'd go for the G hands down. There isn't enough color difference for you to notice. I am also not a fan of any depth that is 62+.........I seem to like the 60 range so in this case, I'd go for the F for specs.

I just went from a 1.48 J SI1 (AGS1) to a 1.02 E SI2 (AGS0) so I went for color over size but it was more about fitting into my original engagement ring. The 1.48 was in another setting and I was going back to my original ring (the 1.48 wouldn't fit). It's taking awhile to get used to the size difference but boy do I love the white white stone. YUMMY!!

Jaime

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 3/24/2006 9:35:09 PM
Author: Kaleidoscopic


No I said the reason I prefer the D/E/F color is because the color bothers ME PERSONALY in an H/I/J color stone. This has nothing to do with what others think of it, but what I am comfortable with. My point was that even if those colors wouldn''t bother me, I may still not get it because I don''t want people to disregard it.

ok, i''m trying to understand what you are saying. Here you say you preferr D/E/F b/c color bothers YOU, not what others think but you like it. But if YOU weren''t bothered by the color you still wouldn''t get it b/c you don''t want others to disregard it..

then you say

Date: 3/24/2006 9:35:09 PM
Author: Kaleidoscopic


Heck if it was only about what others though I would definately go for the G/H/I, (Si clarity) range since I would get a bigger stone and other poeple wouldn''t know the difference anyway.

if it was about others, you''d go with the G/H/I cause no one would notice..

Which is it, i''m a little confused

I think color is personal and there is no right or wrong. Everyone should get what they like and who the heck care''s what anyone else thinks.

 

[squarediamondlove]

Date: 3/24/2006 10:14:23 PM
Author: mrssalvo

Date: 3/24/2006 9:35:09 PM

Author: Kaleidoscopic



No I said the reason I prefer the D/E/F color is because the color bothers ME PERSONALY in an H/I/J color stone. This has nothing to do with what others think of it, but what I am comfortable with. My point was that even if those colors wouldn't bother me, I may still not get it because I don't want people to disregard it.

ok, i'm trying to understand what you are saying. Here you say you preferr D/E/F b/c color bothers YOU, not what others think but you like it. But if YOU weren't bothered by the color you still wouldn't get it b/c you don't want others to disregard it..


then you say

Date: 3/24/2006 9:35:09 PM

Author: Kaleidoscopic



Heck if it was only about what others though I would definately go for the G/H/I, (Si clarity) range since I would get a bigger stone and other poeple wouldn't know the difference anyway.

if it was about others, you'd go with the G/H/I cause no one would notice..


Which is it, i'm a little confused

I think color is personal and there is no right or wrong. Everyone should get what they like and who the heck care's what anyone else thinks.

I'm not sure why its confusing. I myself prefer the colorless range, regardless of what others think, but if I didn't care about color at all, I may limit myself to a G/H/I range anyway b/c of what others think (just because I don't want others to disregard my stone).

Now my later comment just enforces that I am NOT driven by what other people think, because if I was driven by what others think, I would want a larger G/H/I color Si clarity stone since the difference between this and say a D FL would be almost indistinguisable to an observer a couple of feet away and people will be more impressed with the larger size stone I have. So if my only driving force in selecting a stone was what others though of my ring, (which is not the case, but if it was the case) than I would choose the larger sized G/H/I Si.

I don't see how this contradicts with what I said before. To me when one makes a decision sometimes, depending on the issue, one considers what others think. I don't consider others opinions when deciding on my preference for a colorless stone, but WHEN I DON'T HAVE A PREFERENCE AT ALL for color, then I may consider how other people respond to certain colors. So I wouldn't choose say an M color stone, even if it didn't make a difference to me personally, because I would not want others to not appreciate its beauty. I wouldn't want to hear comments like "Yeh, but look how yellow it is." as PrincessV demonstrated, no matter how happy you are with it personally, it is hurtful when others say mean things about your diamond. I wouldn't want to deal with those comments. Call it vain (which I don't agree with) or not vain, I don't care. I don't think there is a right or wrong to this. I myself am not one to follow norms, not in the least. But it would be ignorant for people to deny that we don't care about what others think, at least on some small level.