shape
carat
color
clarity

New user with indecision problem

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by Dreamearth, Apr 3, 2018.

  1. motownmama
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    7,001
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    by motownmama » Apr 4, 2018
    I appreciate what everyone is saying, and I may be in minority here, but, I can see getting the genuine Tiffany ER - especially at the price point you're looking at vs tens of thousands.
     
    Miki Moto likes this.
  2. skypie
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    503
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    by skypie » Apr 4, 2018
    There are some HUGE Tiffany fans on this forum. Perhaps they could weigh in to provide the other side of the coin. Some absolutely love being able to say "it's a Tiffany" (or at least think it) on a daily basis and for them it is the #1 priority.
     
    Lorelei likes this.
  3. SimoneDi
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    3,460
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2014
  4. skypie
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    503
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    SimoneDi likes this.
    


    


  5. Miki Moto
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    577
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    by Miki Moto » Apr 4, 2018
    Hello! Defender-Of-Tiffany here to the rescue! =)2

    I am one of the PSers that loves Tiffany, especially for an engagement ring.
    I have a Tiffany engagement ring along with the plain knife edge wedding band. I absolutely love my diamond and it sparkles like crazy and has so much fire. I compared Tiffany to other super ideals and the Tiffany won. A few maybe have read my story, but for the OP... long story short... I looked for a diamond for nearly a year. I flew to various shops such as Good Old Gold (Jonathan), Hearts of Fire, etc. I had actually dismissed Tiffany as while I loved the brand, I thought it was not worth it, too expensive, so I went to Tiffany to actually prove that point. Well... I was proven wrong and I bought a Tiffany. I actually asked Tiffany to bring in a similar diamond spec to my HOF earrings (which was purchased as loose 1ct stones, AGS certified) and the Tiffany diamond won in that comparison. That comparison test changed my mind on Tiffany so then I asked the SA to bring in some rings. To me, yes, Tiffany is absolutely worth the inflated price to get the brand name along with a gorgeous diamond.

    I worked with a Tiffany SA and told her the specs I wanted. She faxed me several GIA reports so I could pick. I narrowed it down to three rings and she brought them in. I choose one of them.
    If you love Tiffany, I would suggest going to a SA and asking her to bring in other diamonds. All diamonds are not the same, branded or non-branded so I would suggest you look several. For the diamond you saw, I would not purchase given the data you shared. I looked at Tiffany diamonds that were cut better than the one you described, so I am certain you can find a Tiffany with sparkle.

    For me, for an engagement ring, I vote Tiffany. Diamonds are an emotional purchase, so you have to ask yourself what you want. If you truly love Tiffany but you are having to convince yourself Tiffany is not worth it and you could get bigger elsewhere, I would sacrifice size to get a Tiffany. Sometimes it's not about size nor about the math. It's about the total package.

    I can honestly say I love my ring, no regrets. Yes, I know I could have gotten a much bigger stone, but I wanted a Tiffany, especially I did the comparison test. I get compliments on how sparkly my diamond is. But what is most important to me is I stare at my ring all the time, and it puts an ear-to-ear grin on my face.

    Tiffany is iconic. Tiffany created the Tiffany setting which is often copied, but never exactly replicated. The simplicity of the setting itself is gorgeous, from the graduated knife-edge band which makes the diamond the star, to the open-work at the base of the head, to the beautiful prong-work (have you noticed the prong-work, the tip of every prong is perfection).

    I hope I made a convincing case for you to help in your decision.
    Congratulations to you on whatever you decide! I am sure this is such a happy time for you! Go with your hearts wants and what makes you smile.

    Signed,
    Defender-Of-Tiffany =)2
     
    Lorelei likes this.
  6. SimoneDi
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    3,460
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2014
    by SimoneDi » Apr 4, 2018
    Tiffany doesn’t use GIA, but their in-house grading.
     
    Maggiemeans likes this.
  7. Miki Moto
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    577
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    by Miki Moto » Apr 4, 2018
    I received both a GIA report and the Tiffany grading report when I purchased my ring. And before I purchased it, I asked them to fax me the reports so I could decide which to bring in.
     
  8. Dreamearth
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    9
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2018
    by Dreamearth » Apr 4, 2018
    Hahaha That was actually a compromise my boyfriend suggested. You can get just 1 share and have the stock certificate framed at some stores online! That's too bad the company is doing worse. I can imagine it. It's good to realize they are not the same company since the sale in the 70s. But the design is mostly the same. I just skimmed the last few posts but I'm curious to read the defenders of Tiffany. One thing that makes me lean away from the WF or other ideals is they don't have fluorescence. I called Tiffany's 800 number today and asked about more .27 carat with fluorescence. At first they said they could only find the one I have the deposit on. Then after going through some other options I asked for the details on the one with faint fluorescence, and she described a completely different diamond that has a much better HCA score of 1.9. I got her to confirm it was still a .27 w/faint fluorescence, and the price was only $40 more than the one on hold. She said she'd send these details to my SA. I found it strange that ring is also located in Florida... They really need to fix their inventory searchability...
    I'd like to write more later, but I have to go for now!
     
  9. skypie
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    503
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    by skypie » Apr 4, 2018
    This is not true. Many (or maybe even all) superideal vendors carry diamonds with fluorescence. Fluorescence is not exclusive to Tiffany. In fact "Brian Gavin Blue" is a line of diamonds that ALL have strong blue fluorescence.

    Also, may I ask why you desire fluorescence?

     
    the_mother_thing likes this.
  10. the_mother_thing
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    5,343
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2013
    by the_mother_thing » Apr 4, 2018
    Ditto; the only issue re: fluoro @ WF is that it excludes a diamond from being branded ‘super ideal’ but they definitely have them. The WF ES that I just bought (w/MB fluoro) is just one example.
     
    


    


  11. mk206
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    76
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    by mk206 » Apr 4, 2018
    Hi Miki, how long ago was this? Every sales professional I have interacted with in the past year or two has told me they no longer use GIA, and now it is just the Tiffany (Laurelton Diamonds) in-house grading lab. Just wanted to clarify! Thanks :)

    ETA: the last time I asked about it, the SP told me that it was because Tiffany was finding inconsistencies in GIA standards, and the only way to guarantee consistency was to bring the grading in-house. I was under the impression it had been years since Tiffany used GIA.

    I'm sure your diamond is gorgeous, Miki, and it is wonderful that you were able to compare side-by-side! I'm glad the OP has your review as well. But yes, important to look for the "right" Tiffany diamond, since not all are cut to the same proportions. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
    Miki Moto and SimoneDi like this.
  12. Miki Moto
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    577
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    by Miki Moto » Apr 4, 2018
    Hi! I think like 5 years ago or so. But my stone was on the larger side so maybe they do it for bigger stones of a certain size? All the three stones I looked at had the reports. I got the GIA report in the GIA envelope and then the Tiffany report in the leather bound book they normally give out.

    And my diamond has the number inscribed.
     
    mk206 likes this.
  13. Dancing Fire
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    30,000
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    by Dancing Fire » Apr 4, 2018
    :think:. IIRC, Maybe more like 10 yrs ago?
     
    Lorelei likes this.
  14. Miki Moto
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    577
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    by Miki Moto » Apr 4, 2018
    @mk206 On your ETA comment about GIA... hmm... I wonder if AGS is the same with inconsistencies. As in honestly, my HOF earrings were 1ct each, they were loose stones, AGS 000 certified, blah blah blah and they were less sparkly than the Tiffany ones. So now I wonder if AGS pumps up their reports whereas Tiffany is more truthful? Who knows. Nothing is perfect, and it's really important to see multiple stones to find "the one". As I said, I went to Tiffany to get it out of my system and prove to myself their diamonds were inferior and overpriced (I was actually going to purchase a HOF). But I was mistaken and now am a big fan!

    Interesting about the GIA reports for Tiffany... maybe I got one of the last ones.. an antique report! =)2

    I wonder if anyone has sent a GIA stone to AGS for certification or vice versa and see who is more accurate. My HOF earrings say 000 but they may be really 00s!
     
  15. mk206
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    76
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    by mk206 » Apr 4, 2018
    @ Miki, I don't have the experience to comment on this other than just relaying what the guy told me. Not totally sure that I believe it. I can say for my own sake I would absolutely trust AGS (and GIA as well for that matter). For me, buying a super-ideal diamond from HPD or WF ticks all my boxes. The combination of vetting, AGS000 grading, along with all of the imaging (ASET, IS, etc) and ability to compare loose diamonds side-by-side is amazing to me. Add all that to superior customer service and amazing trade-in policies, and I'm thrilled! But everyone is different in what appeals most to them. Some diamonds Tiffany sells are great, some Tiffany sales professionals are great! My hope is just that everyone can learn about the options before pulling the trigger. That way they can feel fully informed and satisfied with such a big and important purchase. :)
     
    Miki Moto and SimoneDi like this.
    


    


  16. foxinsox
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,699
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2015
    by foxinsox » Apr 4, 2018
    AGS is an independent lab that grades stones using objective technology. They don’t sell diamonds. Tiffany sells diamonds which they grade themselves and their brand.
    I think I know who I would trust more.
     
  17. Dreamearth
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    9
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2018
    by Dreamearth » Apr 5, 2018
    I have looked at some antique rings, (and they really are cool!) but most of them are more expensive than new that I saw and were pretty well worn. I'm more interested in the historical setting than diamonds. Also because of below:
    Though a lot of people still associate diamonds with "blood diamonds" I can be more sure the modern ones are following the Kimberly process.
    I've heard the Old European Cuts perform differently and it'd be neat to see in person, though.

    They've been in touch by email and seem very accommodating!

    I didn't really get into why the store visit was odd! The SA who contacted us about the appointment request was very polite, but I snooped his name on LinkedIn and if that was accurate he just finished work at a jeweler in NY at the beginning of this year. So he would have moved to PA and been at Tiffany for only a couple months. Maybe that's why he wasn't able to easily check out a computer to look at inventory and had to keep going to the manager? Also it looked like he had just been in a car accident, or was attacked by a large dog. The healing scars on his face just looked so painful and I didn't want to be a bother to him. Maybe it was also too busy on a Saturday, because other customers I assume he talked to before were coming in and saying hi.

    Re: Tiffany being a not too overpriced:
    That's something I've seen on other threads here too! They do offer their setting at pretty low prices if you go with a small diamond. I'm also not against buying used for even better value.
    Re: Being happy with the authentic setting:
    Yes, I don't anticipate going around bragging about it, but it'd make me feel better knowing it's not a replica.
    I really do like the style of this setting, but if I couldn't have the original I'd rather get something completely different and that'd mean I have to get used to the idea of a different setting.

    I did read your story! I wish I had a better trained eye to tell the difference like that. And I agree the HCA scale and perhaps the AGS rating don't take into account everything. If Tiffany was using some alternate secret criteria to sell super sparkly diamonds I wish they'd explain exactly what it was! haha

    In response to the people saying they don't use GIA: A few years ago I was hoping my BF would think about proposing soon and checked out some rings at the store. They said they include GIA reports with all diamonds over 1ct, and I think I asked about that on Saturday and they said that was still correct.

    I know it's not exclusive to Tiffany, in fact I think they try not to have fluors in their inventory. But the one I was looking at had it, and the ones on WF that are "A Cut Above" don't include fluors. I suppose I could look at other WF diamonds but I haven't had time! haha I looked at the Brian Gavin Blue a while ago but I thought they were all much more expensive. I might be mistaken, I should probably look at some more!
    Well, mostly I think it's a cool novelty. I have a UV light for gel nails and think it's cool to see the hidden properties of my jewelry. Plus there is some hype about it "whitening up" a stone less than D color, but some people say it's unnoticeable in sunlight.

    What do you mean by "ES"? I'm too tired, I'm sure it'll come to me later:confused2:

    I'm overwhelmed by all the responses here! But I really appreciate all the advice from all sides. I guess I'm considering still finding an ideal small stone from Tiffany, buying a used setting and putting a WF diamond in it, or buying a WF diamond with a setting that would be replaced later, though it would be nice to have a finalized ring for the engagement. Also.. just saw an amazing price for one on Craigslist listed last month, but it's either sold or is a scam. I should narrow down my choices already, but this is exciting!
     
  18. the_mother_thing
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    5,343
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
    Dreamearth and foxinsox like this.
  19. SimoneDi
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    3,460
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2014
    by SimoneDi » Apr 5, 2018
    OP I wouldn’t purchase a Tiffany Ring and take it apart. You will lose the value associated with the brand. You will also need to change the head of the setting and Tiffany won’t do that for you, so it would have to be done by a different jeweler and it the ring will no longer be an original T&Co. It is not the way to go IMHO.

    Your options are the following
    1) Buy a new Tiffany ring with a smaller diamond (.25ct or so)
    2) Buy a pre-loved Tiffany ring where you might be able to get a larger carat stone for the same price
    3) Buy an excellent/ideal stone from one of the preferred vendors and set it in a Tiffany inspired solitaire.

    I can tell you that I have my eye on one Tiffany band and as much as I know that I might be able to purchase a similar one elsewhere, I will probably eventually just buy it from T&Co. However, I definitely don’t feel the same way about their diamonds. I don’t see anything special and/or propriety about them, they are, though, super well cleaned and the lightning in the stores is magic.

    Best of luck in your decision!
     
  20. rockysalamander
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    4,723
    Joined:
    May 20, 2016
    by rockysalamander » Apr 5, 2018
    If you want to be able to see the flour, you should be looking at strong and very strong. You will barely if at all see faint and even medium. BG Blue line is specially selected and screened for strong flour with no impact on transparency. If you go with Tiffany, they will need to have their gemologist clear the diamond from any impact from the flour.

    I'd also like to suggest one more thing. Why don't you buy an inexpensive CZ ring of this side in a simple soli (there are tons on Amazon). Wear it around at home and on weekends. Really think about if that is what you want in terms of size and setting.

    I would recommend you go see antique diamonds in person. There are many good vendors. If you are comfortable telling us the nearest larges cities to you, we may be able to recommend a store worth visiting before you make a decision.

    I completely agree with @SimoneDi that seperating the Tiffany diamond from the setting is unusual. I would tend to keep that diamond in a safe if you go with another diamond, so that you can have it re-set if you end up wanting to upgrade or sell the setting. Hard to imagine, but it is a real thing. Also, knife edge settings are beloved by some, but I and others find them very uncomfortable. So, its good to give it a try in your normal life it you can.
     
    SimoneDi likes this.
  21. Dreamearth
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    9
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2018
    by Dreamearth » Apr 5, 2018
    Yes, it seems really strange to me too! I asked Whiteflash about it, and they seem like they would do it. It kinda makes me think about Frankenstein. It's ALIVE! I would be happy with a Frankenring though! I wouldn't be going with a much bigger diamond, so hopefully they wouldn't have to change the prongs completely. That's a good idea to be able to put the old stone back should something drastic happen.

    I got a call from the Tiffany SA a few minutes ago and he said something about getting the 2nd ring to look at. What should I do about this guilt I have for making him do all this work if I end up going with the Frankenring? Would a ring with these specs be a better choice?
    upload_2018-4-5_12-33-58.png
    It would certainly be a simpler choice my BF would be happier with! He (lovingly) says talking with you diamond nerds has warped my brain and I should just go with Tiffany. No offenses meant!! Everyone is a diamond nerd compared to him...
     
  22. skypie
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    503
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    by skypie » Apr 5, 2018
    What's your ring size, OP?
     
  23. Miki Moto
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    577
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    by Miki Moto » Apr 5, 2018
    I agree with your boyfriend. It seems your heart wants a Tiffany. It is easy to be swayed with math and numbers but in the end, if you want a Tiffany, there is no substitute. You can convince yourself you got a bigger diamond but it’s still not a Tiffany.

    I would not reuse a Tiffany setting. It’s like making a fake “Tiffany ring” only to say you have a Tiffany setting.

    For many people who love Tiffany, price is an issue because they want bigger. For you, you have no issue as you see happy with the size of the diamond.

    Something else to think about... you can take your ring to Tiffany anytime to get it serviced or cleaned. There is not a Tiffany where I live but I travel often and it’s easy to pop into a Tiffany and have them check your prongs and clean your ring, no charge of course.

    On the math... as I mentioned, I think my ring sparkles like crazy. Angle-wise I recall it being like 1% off to get to a super ideal or something. It was so long ago I did all this. But I did not care. It sparkles like mad, and it was better than the HOF comparison.

    My recommendation is to not rely solely on math and angles. Diamonds each have their own life. The “one” will sparkle and speak to you. I hope it’s the Tiffany!

    But in all seriousness, look at the stone. In the end, it is what you think is beautiful, not some numbers or any PSer like me.

    Good luck to you and congrats to you and your boyfriend on your pending wedding!

    Signed,
    Defender-of-Tiffany
     
    Dreamearth, fenestrate and farrahlyn like this.
  24. skypie
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    503
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    by skypie » Apr 5, 2018
    I think the bolded is the most important part in all of this. More important than the Tiffany name or numbers. Pick the diamond that looks best to you, period.

     
  25. TreeScientist
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,230
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    by TreeScientist » Apr 5, 2018
    That's what I was thinking when I read that post. Who would I trust more: An independent lab that has no monetary incentive for giving a diamond a higher/lower grade, or one who sells the stones that they assign the grade to...:think:

    Also agree with @rockysalamander regarding the fluor. It's great that you're a fluor lover, but if you really want a stone that will give you the cool effects associated with fluor, you're going to want a stone with at least medium blue fluor. Faint will do absolutely nothing to the stone's appearance. In fact, AGS did away with the faint grade for this reason, and has merged both "none" and "faint" fluorescence into a single category called "negligible."

    If you really want a stone that will exhibit all of the cool fluorescent effects and is vetted to not have any downsides (like milkiness) then the Brian Gavin Blue line is probably your best bet. They have medium and strong blue stones that are very beautiful and come at a discount to the Black line. :)
     
    OoohShiny and rockysalamander like this.
  26. SimoneDi
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    3,460
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2014
    by SimoneDi » Apr 5, 2018
    OP, they are sales people, that is their job so please don’t “feel bad” about it. The diamond has great proportions! I think it will be a much better option.

    Honestly, you seem to want Tiffany and don’t necessarily care about the size of the diamond. If I were you, I would get the Tiffany ring and call it a day.
     
  27. rockysalamander
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    4,723
    Joined:
    May 20, 2016
    by rockysalamander » Apr 5, 2018
    Tiffany Option 1: 62990937, I VS2 Fait, 57% table, 62.4% depth, 35.2 CA, 41.1 PA, 4.14-4.19 mm
    Tiffany Option 2: I VVS2, Faint, 56% table, 62% depth, CA 34.9, PA 40.9

    Tiffany Option 2 is far better than #1 by the numbers. This should have better fire and light return than your first selection. This has proportions that would be worth pursing even if not a Tiffany stone. If you want to be sure of light return, and assuming they don't have the tool, you can take your own ASET picture.

    https://datlas.com/ideal-scope-store/new-aset-kit/

    My mom and dad had fun at Tiffany when they brought their own and showed the Sales Associates how to use it.
     
    Miki Moto and SimoneDi like this.
  28. Miki Moto
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    577
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    by Miki Moto » Apr 5, 2018
    @TreeScientist @foxinsox

    Please read her post again.
    @mk206 said she heard Tiffany say they did not use GIA due to inconsistent grading. I commented maybe that could also be with AGS because my AGS 000 HOF is less sparkly than my Tiffany that has a GIA.

    This is not about a Tiffany grading. It is GIA vs. AGS.
     
  29. Brandon Mccoy
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    36
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2018
    by Brandon Mccoy » Apr 5, 2018
    I personally believe you can get a false report from any lab because it happens! And I also don't buy into a lot of labs high priced money scams. Don't get me wrong not all labs are lagit but the way I look at it is if you can find the lab on Google and track your certification then it's probably a lagit cert. I mean no laboratory would want to worry about false advertisement or misleading people on account of the laws and lawsuits that could possibly incur would they.
     
  30. skypie
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    503
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    by skypie » Apr 5, 2018
    For @Dreamearth : You probably have done IRL comparisons like this, but this is a size comparison of a 0.27 carat RB vs a 0.8 carat RB

    ring size.jpg
     
    OoohShiny likes this.

Share This Page