New user with indecision problem

[motownmama]

I appreciate what everyone is saying, and I may be in minority here, but, I can see getting the genuine Tiffany ER - especially at the price point you're looking at vs tens of thousands.

 

[skypie]

There are some HUGE Tiffany fans on this forum. Perhaps they could weigh in to provide the other side of the coin. Some absolutely love being able to say "it's a Tiffany" (or at least think it) on a daily basis and for them it is the #1 priority.

 

[SimoneDi]

OP, perhaps take a look at this thread: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-3-10-carat-whiteflash-aca.238014/
In my view, that is a great representation of setting that is a very close T&Co replica.

 

[skypie]

OP - here is a thread where another PSer was deciding whether to keep or sell a Tiffany ring.

You will find some strong viewpoints on both sides regarding Tiffany rings.

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...-with-my-tiffany-ring-opinions-please.238068/

 

[SimoneDi]

Tiffany doesn’t use GIA, but their in-house grading.

 

[GolfingGreen]

Tiffany doesn’t use GIA, but their in-house grading.

I received both a GIA report and the Tiffany grading report when I purchased my ring. And before I purchased it, I asked them to fax me the reports so I could decide which to bring in.

 

[Dreamearth]

I wanted to buy stock in their company

Hahaha That was actually a compromise my boyfriend suggested. You can get just 1 share and have the stock certificate framed at some stores online! That's too bad the company is doing worse. I can imagine it. It's good to realize they are not the same company since the sale in the 70s. But the design is mostly the same. I just skimmed the last few posts but I'm curious to read the defenders of Tiffany. One thing that makes me lean away from the WF or other ideals is they don't have fluorescence. I called Tiffany's 800 number today and asked about more .27 carat with fluorescence. At first they said they could only find the one I have the deposit on. Then after going through some other options I asked for the details on the one with faint fluorescence, and she described a completely different diamond that has a much better HCA score of 1.9. I got her to confirm it was still a .27 w/faint fluorescence, and the price was only $40 more than the one on hold. She said she'd send these details to my SA. I found it strange that ring is also located in Florida... They really need to fix their inventory searchability...
I'd like to write more later, but I have to go for now!

 

[skypie]

This is not true. Many (or maybe even all) superideal vendors carry diamonds with fluorescence. Fluorescence is not exclusive to Tiffany. In fact "Brian Gavin Blue" is a line of diamonds that ALL have strong blue fluorescence.

Also, may I ask why you desire fluorescence?

Hahaha That was actually a compromise my boyfriend suggested. You can get just 1 share and have the stock certificate framed at some stores online! That's too bad the company is doing worse. I can imagine it. It's good to realize they are not the same company since the sale in the 70s. But the design is mostly the same. I just skimmed the last few posts but I'm curious to read the defenders of Tiffany. One thing that makes me lean away from the WF or other ideals is they don't have fluorescence. I called Tiffany's 800 number today and asked about more .27 carat with fluorescence. At first they said they could only find the one I have the deposit on. Then after going through some other options I asked for the details on the one with faint fluorescence, and she described a completely different diamond that has a much better HCA score of 1.9. I got her to confirm it was still a .27 w/faint fluorescence, and the price was only $40 more than the one on hold. She said she'd send these details to my SA. I found it strange that ring is also located in Florida... They really need to fix their inventory searchability...
I'd like to write more later, but I have to go for now!

 

[the_mother_thing]

This is not true. Many (or maybe even all) superideal vendors carry diamonds with fluorescence. Fluorescence is not exclusive to Tiffany.

Ditto; the only issue re: fluoro @ WF is that it excludes a diamond from being branded ‘super ideal’ but they definitely have them. The WF ES that I just bought (w/MB fluoro) is just one example.

 

[mk206]

I received both a GIA report and the Tiffany grading report when I purchased my ring. And before I purchased it, I asked them to fax me the reports so I could decide which to bring in.

Hi Miki, how long ago was this? Every sales professional I have interacted with in the past year or two has told me they no longer use GIA, and now it is just the Tiffany (Laurelton Diamonds) in-house grading lab. Just wanted to clarify! Thanks

ETA: the last time I asked about it, the SP told me that it was because Tiffany was finding inconsistencies in GIA standards, and the only way to guarantee consistency was to bring the grading in-house. I was under the impression it had been years since Tiffany used GIA.

I'm sure your diamond is gorgeous, Miki, and it is wonderful that you were able to compare side-by-side! I'm glad the OP has your review as well. But yes, important to look for the "right" Tiffany diamond, since not all are cut to the same proportions.

 

[GolfingGreen]

Hi Miki, how long ago was this? Every sales professional I have interacted with in the past year or two has told me they no longer use GIA, and now it is just the Tiffany (Laurelton Diamonds) in-house grading lab. Just wanted to clarify! Thanks

Hi! I think like 5 years ago or so. But my stone was on the larger side so maybe they do it for bigger stones of a certain size? All the three stones I looked at had the reports. I got the GIA report in the GIA envelope and then the Tiffany report in the leather bound book they normally give out.

And my diamond has the number inscribed.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Hi! I think like 5 years ago or so. But my stone was on the larger side so maybe they do it for bigger stones of a certain size? All the three stones I looked at had the reports. I got the GIA report in the GIA envelope and then the Tiffany report in the leather bound book they normally give out.

And my diamond has the number inscribed.

. IIRC, Maybe more like 10 yrs ago?

 

[GolfingGreen]

@mk206 On your ETA comment about GIA... hmm... I wonder if AGS is the same with inconsistencies. As in honestly, my HOF earrings were 1ct each, they were loose stones, AGS 000 certified, blah blah blah and they were less sparkly than the Tiffany ones. So now I wonder if AGS pumps up their reports whereas Tiffany is more truthful? Who knows. Nothing is perfect, and it's really important to see multiple stones to find "the one". As I said, I went to Tiffany to get it out of my system and prove to myself their diamonds were inferior and overpriced (I was actually going to purchase a HOF). But I was mistaken and now am a big fan!

Interesting about the GIA reports for Tiffany... maybe I got one of the last ones.. an antique report!

I wonder if anyone has sent a GIA stone to AGS for certification or vice versa and see who is more accurate. My HOF earrings say 000 but they may be really 00s!

 

[mk206]

@ Miki, I don't have the experience to comment on this other than just relaying what the guy told me. Not totally sure that I believe it. I can say for my own sake I would absolutely trust AGS (and GIA as well for that matter). For me, buying a super-ideal diamond from HPD or WF ticks all my boxes. The combination of vetting, AGS000 grading, along with all of the imaging (ASET, IS, etc) and ability to compare loose diamonds side-by-side is amazing to me. Add all that to superior customer service and amazing trade-in policies, and I'm thrilled! But everyone is different in what appeals most to them. Some diamonds Tiffany sells are great, some Tiffany sales professionals are great! My hope is just that everyone can learn about the options before pulling the trigger. That way they can feel fully informed and satisfied with such a big and important purchase.

 

[foxinsox]

@mk206 On your ETA comment about GIA... hmm... I wonder if AGS is the same with inconsistencies. As in honestly, my HOF earrings were 1ct each, they were loose stones, AGS 000 certified, blah blah blah and they were less sparkly than the Tiffany ones. So now I wonder if AGS pumps up their reports whereas Tiffany is more truthful? Who knows.

AGS is an independent lab that grades stones using objective technology. They don’t sell diamonds. Tiffany sells diamonds which they grade themselves and their brand.
I think I know who I would trust more.

 

[Dreamearth]

If history is important to you...why not buy an antique diamond? At the time of that history you so admire, the diamonds would have been old european cut,

I have looked at some antique rings, (and they really are cool!) but most of them are more expensive than new that I saw and were pretty well worn. I'm more interested in the historical setting than diamonds. Also because of below:

There is lots of dirt on diamond sellers from this time period.

Though a lot of people still associate diamonds with "blood diamonds" I can be more sure the modern ones are following the Kimberly process.
I've heard the Old European Cuts perform differently and it'd be neat to see in person, though.

Ask WF if they can buff the carat weigh engraving off the inside of the ring.

They've been in touch by email and seem very accommodating!

You already said you went in and "had the Tiffany experience" and that it was meh.

I didn't really get into why the store visit was odd! The SA who contacted us about the appointment request was very polite, but I snooped his name on LinkedIn and if that was accurate he just finished work at a jeweler in NY at the beginning of this year. So he would have moved to PA and been at Tiffany for only a couple months. Maybe that's why he wasn't able to easily check out a computer to look at inventory and had to keep going to the manager? Also it looked like he had just been in a car accident, or was attacked by a large dog. The healing scars on his face just looked so painful and I didn't want to be a bother to him. Maybe it was also too busy on a Saturday, because other customers I assume he talked to before were coming in and saying hi.

Re: Tiffany being a not too overpriced:

especially at the price point you're looking at

That's something I've seen on other threads here too! They do offer their setting at pretty low prices if you go with a small diamond. I'm also not against buying used for even better value.
Re: Being happy with the authentic setting:

at least think it) on a daily basis

Yes, I don't anticipate going around bragging about it, but it'd make me feel better knowing it's not a replica.

Tiffany created the Tiffany setting which is often copied, but never exactly replicated.

I really do like the style of this setting, but if I couldn't have the original I'd rather get something completely different and that'd mean I have to get used to the idea of a different setting.

maybe have read my story, but for the OP...

I did read your story! I wish I had a better trained eye to tell the difference like that. And I agree the HCA scale and perhaps the AGS rating don't take into account everything. If Tiffany was using some alternate secret criteria to sell super sparkly diamonds I wish they'd explain exactly what it was! haha

I received both a GIA report and the Tiffany grading report when I purchased my ring.

In response to the people saying they don't use GIA: A few years ago I was hoping my BF would think about proposing soon and checked out some rings at the store. They said they include GIA reports with all diamonds over 1ct, and I think I asked about that on Saturday and they said that was still correct.

Fluorescence is not exclusive to Tiffany. In fact "Brian Gavin Blue" is a line of diamonds that ALL have strong blue fluorescence.

I know it's not exclusive to Tiffany, in fact I think they try not to have fluors in their inventory. But the one I was looking at had it, and the ones on WF that are "A Cut Above" don't include fluors. I suppose I could look at other WF diamonds but I haven't had time! haha I looked at the Brian Gavin Blue a while ago but I thought they were all much more expensive. I might be mistaken, I should probably look at some more!

Also, may I ask why you desire fluorescence?

Well, mostly I think it's a cool novelty. I have a UV light for gel nails and think it's cool to see the hidden properties of my jewelry. Plus there is some hype about it "whitening up" a stone less than D color, but some people say it's unnoticeable in sunlight.

The WF ES that I just bought (w/MB fluoro)

What do you mean by "ES"? I'm too tired, I'm sure it'll come to me later

I'm overwhelmed by all the responses here! But I really appreciate all the advice from all sides. I guess I'm considering still finding an ideal small stone from Tiffany, buying a used setting and putting a WF diamond in it, or buying a WF diamond with a setting that would be replaced later, though it would be nice to have a finalized ring for the engagement. Also.. just saw an amazing price for one on Craigslist listed last month, but it's either sold or is a scam. I should narrow down my choices already, but this is exciting!

 

[the_mother_thing]

@Dreamearth Whiteflash (WF) has a couple categories of diamonds: https://www.whiteflash.com/whiteflash-diamonds-categories/ I recently bought one from their ES or Expert Selection line that - as it’s only ACA-disqualifying characteristic - had medium blue fluoro. My point being, if you want flourescence, it IS available in ideal cut diamonds aside from Tiffany.

 

[SimoneDi]

I'm overwhelmed by all the responses here! But I really appreciate all the advice from all sides. I guess I'm considering still finding an ideal small stone from Tiffany, buying a used setting and putting a WF diamond in it, or buying a WF diamond with a setting that would be replaced later, though it would be nice to have a finalized ring for the engagement. Also.. just saw an amazing price for one on Craigslist listed last month, but it's either sold or is a scam. I should narrow down my choices already, but this is exciting!

OP I wouldn’t purchase a Tiffany Ring and take it apart. You will lose the value associated with the brand. You will also need to change the head of the setting and Tiffany won’t do that for you, so it would have to be done by a different jeweler and it the ring will no longer be an original T&Co. It is not the way to go IMHO.

Your options are the following
1) Buy a new Tiffany ring with a smaller diamond (.25ct or so)
2) Buy a pre-loved Tiffany ring where you might be able to get a larger carat stone for the same price
3) Buy an excellent/ideal stone from one of the preferred vendors and set it in a Tiffany inspired solitaire.

I can tell you that I have my eye on one Tiffany band and as much as I know that I might be able to purchase a similar one elsewhere, I will probably eventually just buy it from T&Co. However, I definitely don’t feel the same way about their diamonds. I don’t see anything special and/or propriety about them, they are, though, super well cleaned and the lightning in the stores is magic.

Best of luck in your decision!

 

[rockysalamander]

If you want to be able to see the flour, you should be looking at strong and very strong. You will barely if at all see faint and even medium. BG Blue line is specially selected and screened for strong flour with no impact on transparency. If you go with Tiffany, they will need to have their gemologist clear the diamond from any impact from the flour.

I'd also like to suggest one more thing. Why don't you buy an inexpensive CZ ring of this side in a simple soli (there are tons on Amazon). Wear it around at home and on weekends. Really think about if that is what you want in terms of size and setting.

I would recommend you go see antique diamonds in person. There are many good vendors. If you are comfortable telling us the nearest larges cities to you, we may be able to recommend a store worth visiting before you make a decision.

I completely agree with @SimoneDi that seperating the Tiffany diamond from the setting is unusual. I would tend to keep that diamond in a safe if you go with another diamond, so that you can have it re-set if you end up wanting to upgrade or sell the setting. Hard to imagine, but it is a real thing. Also, knife edge settings are beloved by some, but I and others find them very uncomfortable. So, its good to give it a try in your normal life it you can.

 

[Dreamearth]

I completely agree with @SimoneDi that seperating the Tiffany diamond from the setting is unusual. I would tend to keep that diamond in a safe if you go with another diamond, so that you can have it re-set if you end up wanting to upgrade or sell the setting.

Yes, it seems really strange to me too! I asked Whiteflash about it, and they seem like they would do it. It kinda makes me think about Frankenstein. It's ALIVE! I would be happy with a Frankenring though! I wouldn't be going with a much bigger diamond, so hopefully they wouldn't have to change the prongs completely. That's a good idea to be able to put the old stone back should something drastic happen.

I got a call from the Tiffany SA a few minutes ago and he said something about getting the 2nd ring to look at. What should I do about this guilt I have for making him do all this work if I end up going with the Frankenring? Would a ring with these specs be a better choice?

It would certainly be a simpler choice my BF would be happier with! He (lovingly) says talking with you diamond nerds has warped my brain and I should just go with Tiffany. No offenses meant!! Everyone is a diamond nerd compared to him...

 

[skypie]

What's your ring size, OP?

 

[GolfingGreen]

I agree with your boyfriend. It seems your heart wants a Tiffany. It is easy to be swayed with math and numbers but in the end, if you want a Tiffany, there is no substitute. You can convince yourself you got a bigger diamond but it’s still not a Tiffany.

I would not reuse a Tiffany setting. It’s like making a fake “Tiffany ring” only to say you have a Tiffany setting.

For many people who love Tiffany, price is an issue because they want bigger. For you, you have no issue as you see happy with the size of the diamond.

Something else to think about... you can take your ring to Tiffany anytime to get it serviced or cleaned. There is not a Tiffany where I live but I travel often and it’s easy to pop into a Tiffany and have them check your prongs and clean your ring, no charge of course.

On the math... as I mentioned, I think my ring sparkles like crazy. Angle-wise I recall it being like 1% off to get to a super ideal or something. It was so long ago I did all this. But I did not care. It sparkles like mad, and it was better than the HOF comparison.

My recommendation is to not rely solely on math and angles. Diamonds each have their own life. The “one” will sparkle and speak to you. I hope it’s the Tiffany!

But in all seriousness, look at the stone. In the end, it is what you think is beautiful, not some numbers or any PSer like me.

Good luck to you and congrats to you and your boyfriend on your pending wedding!

Signed,
Defender-of-Tiffany

 

[skypie]

I think the bolded is the most important part in all of this. More important than the Tiffany name or numbers. Pick the diamond that looks best to you, period.

On the math... as I mentioned, I think my ring sparkles like crazy. Angle-wise I recall it being like 1% off to get to a super ideal or something. It was so long ago I did all this. But I did not care. It sparkles like mad, and it was better than the HOF comparison.

My recommendation is to not rely solely on math and angles. Diamonds each have their own life. The “one” will sparkle and speak to you. I hope it’s the Tiffany!

But in all seriousness, look at the stone. In the end, it is what you think is beautiful, not some numbers or any PSer like me.

Good luck to you and congrats to you and your boyfriend on your pending wedding!

Signed,
Defender-of-Tiffany

 

[TreeScientist]

AGS is an independent lab that grades stones using objective technology. They don’t sell diamonds. Tiffany sells diamonds which they grade themselves and their brand.
I think I know who I would trust more.

That's what I was thinking when I read that post. Who would I trust more: An independent lab that has no monetary incentive for giving a diamond a higher/lower grade, or one who sells the stones that they assign the grade to...

If you want to be able to see the flour, you should be looking at strong and very strong. You will barely if at all see faint and even medium. BG Blue line is specially selected and screened for strong flour with no impact on transparency. If you go with Tiffany, they will need to have their gemologist clear the diamond from any impact from the flour.

I'd also like to suggest one more thing. Why don't you buy an inexpensive CZ ring of this side in a simple soli (there are tons on Amazon). Wear it around at home and on weekends. Really think about if that is what you want in terms of size and setting.

I would recommend you go see antique diamonds in person. There are many good vendors. If you are comfortable telling us the nearest larges cities to you, we may be able to recommend a store worth visiting before you make a decision.

I completely agree with @SimoneDi that seperating the Tiffany diamond from the setting is unusual. I would tend to keep that diamond in a safe if you go with another diamond, so that you can have it re-set if you end up wanting to upgrade or sell the setting. Hard to imagine, but it is a real thing. Also, knife edge settings are beloved by some, but I and others find them very uncomfortable. So, its good to give it a try in your normal life it you can.

Also agree with @rockysalamander regarding the fluor. It's great that you're a fluor lover, but if you really want a stone that will give you the cool effects associated with fluor, you're going to want a stone with at least medium blue fluor. Faint will do absolutely nothing to the stone's appearance. In fact, AGS did away with the faint grade for this reason, and has merged both "none" and "faint" fluorescence into a single category called "negligible."

If you really want a stone that will exhibit all of the cool fluorescent effects and is vetted to not have any downsides (like milkiness) then the Brian Gavin Blue line is probably your best bet. They have medium and strong blue stones that are very beautiful and come at a discount to the Black line.

 

[SimoneDi]

Yes, it seems really strange to me too! I asked Whiteflash about it, and they seem like they would do it. It kinda makes me think about Frankenstein. It's ALIVE! I would be happy with a Frankenring though! I wouldn't be going with a much bigger diamond, so hopefully they wouldn't have to change the prongs completely. That's a good idea to be able to put the old stone back should something drastic happen.

I got a call from the Tiffany SA a few minutes ago and he said something about getting the 2nd ring to look at. What should I do about this guilt I have for making him do all this work if I end up going with the Frankenring? Would a ring with these specs be a better choice?

It would certainly be a simpler choice my BF would be happier with! He (lovingly) says talking with you diamond nerds has warped my brain and I should just go with Tiffany. No offenses meant!! Everyone is a diamond nerd compared to him...

OP, they are sales people, that is their job so please don’t “feel bad” about it. The diamond has great proportions! I think it will be a much better option.

Honestly, you seem to want Tiffany and don’t necessarily care about the size of the diamond. If I were you, I would get the Tiffany ring and call it a day.

 

[rockysalamander]

Tiffany Option 1: 62990937, I VS2 Fait, 57% table, 62.4% depth, 35.2 CA, 41.1 PA, 4.14-4.19 mm
Tiffany Option 2: I VVS2, Faint, 56% table, 62% depth, CA 34.9, PA 40.9

Tiffany Option 2 is far better than #1 by the numbers. This should have better fire and light return than your first selection. This has proportions that would be worth pursing even if not a Tiffany stone. If you want to be sure of light return, and assuming they don't have the tool, you can take your own ASET picture.

https://datlas.com/ideal-scope-store/new-aset-kit/

My mom and dad had fun at Tiffany when they brought their own and showed the Sales Associates how to use it.

 

[GolfingGreen]

@TreeScientist @foxinsox

Please read her post again.
@mk206 said she heard Tiffany say they did not use GIA due to inconsistent grading. I commented maybe that could also be with AGS because my AGS 000 HOF is less sparkly than my Tiffany that has a GIA.

This is not about a Tiffany grading. It is GIA vs. AGS.

 

[Brandon Mccoy]

I personally believe you can get a false report from any lab because it happens! And I also don't buy into a lot of labs high priced money scams. Don't get me wrong not all labs are lagit but the way I look at it is if you can find the lab on Google and track your certification then it's probably a lagit cert. I mean no laboratory would want to worry about false advertisement or misleading people on account of the laws and lawsuits that could possibly incur would they.

 

[skypie]

For @Dreamearth : You probably have done IRL comparisons like this, but this is a size comparison of a 0.27 carat RB vs a 0.8 carat RB

 

[mk206]

@TreeScientist @foxinsox

Please read her post again.
@mk206 said she heard Tiffany say they did not use GIA due to inconsistent grading. I commented maybe that could also be with AGS because my AGS 000 HOF is less sparkly than my Tiffany that has a GIA.

This is not about a Tiffany grading. It is GIA vs. AGS.

I was merely repeating what I had been told... I myself would tend to trust GIA and AGS over Tiffany's lab any day due to the conflict of interest described earlier in this thread. I'm also not trying to start any GIA/AGS wars here.

At this point I don't know if Tiffany rings do or don't come with a GIA certificate... A few months ago when I was looking at their diamonds (around 1.5 ct) I was told by the store manager that they stopped using GIA years ago for the reason above, but OP says she just confirmed on Saturday that diamonds over 1 ct come with the GIA report.

OP- back to YOU! Only you can decide what is most important to you. And it is sounding like the Tiffany name and original setting is where your heart is. Other PSers (with much more experience than me!) and myself have let you know our thoughts on stones and size and budget, etc. but it is really up to you to decide what you would feel happiest and most satisfied with over the long term. Looking forward to seeing what you choose!