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New user with indecision problem

mk206

Rough_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 21, 2018
Messages
76
@TreeScientist @foxinsox

Please read her post again.
@mk206 said she heard Tiffany say they did not use GIA due to inconsistent grading. I commented maybe that could also be with AGS because my AGS 000 HOF is less sparkly than my Tiffany that has a GIA.

This is not about a Tiffany grading. It is GIA vs. AGS.
I was merely repeating what I had been told... I myself would tend to trust GIA and AGS over Tiffany's lab any day due to the conflict of interest described earlier in this thread. I'm also not trying to start any GIA/AGS wars here.

At this point I don't know if Tiffany rings do or don't come with a GIA certificate... A few months ago when I was looking at their diamonds (around 1.5 ct) I was told by the store manager that they stopped using GIA years ago for the reason above, but OP says she just confirmed on Saturday that diamonds over 1 ct come with the GIA report.

OP- back to YOU! Only you can decide what is most important to you. And it is sounding like the Tiffany name and original setting is where your heart is. Other PSers (with much more experience than me!) and myself have let you know our thoughts on stones and size and budget, etc. but it is really up to you to decide what you would feel happiest and most satisfied with over the long term. Looking forward to seeing what you choose!
 

foxinsox

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
3,012
@TreeScientist @foxinsox

Please read her post again.
@mk206 said she heard Tiffany say they did not use GIA due to inconsistent grading. I commented maybe that could also be with AGS because my AGS 000 HOF is less sparkly than my Tiffany that has a GIA.

This is not about a Tiffany grading. It is GIA vs. AGS.
No @Miki Moto I'm not misreading @mk206's post nor is it about GIA vs AGS. I was replying only to your statement that I quoted where you're trying to suggest that an industry respected lab which uses objective light technology to evaluate stones that they do not sell would be inflating their reports and that Tiffany, a vendor with a vested interest because they sell their own diamonds, would be more truthful "So now I wonder if AGS pumps up their reports whereas Tiffany is more truthful? Who knows."
You said "who knows" and I was replying directly to that to say that actually that the objective lab who stands to make zero profit is probably more trustworthy in my opinion than a vendor who doesn't use an independent grading lab to vet their own inventory, so you can know and pretty easily.

OP - sorry for the aside. I think whatever you choose should make your heart sing every time you look at it. My ering makes me smile every single day whenever I look at it and it's not the biggest and bestest ever but it's the one that spoke to me. I don't get the cultural love of Tiffany myself but if knowing you've got a Tiffany will make your heart sing that little bit more every time you look at its sparkliness, get the Tiffany.
But get the Tiffany being fully informed on the reality of the industry, not being swayed by marketing hype and having made the Tiffany SA work to find you the best stone for your money. You're the customer and this is a significant purchase so you deserve for it to be the best.
 
Last edited:

ringo865

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
Messages
2,353
Is there a reason you are looking only at 0.27 stones? What if Tiffany had a 0.31 or 0.28? Or 0.26? Seems more limiting than probably needed, unless it's a lucky number or something ...:confused:
 

Miki Moto

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 6, 2018
Messages
577
@foxinsox Let me clear so as not to confuse you any further... my ring... Tiffany appraisal = GIA appraisal. The stats are identical on the Tiffany report and the GIA report, so it is the same.

My HOF 1.0ct AGS 000 diamond earring sparkled LESS than the Tiffany GIA certified equivalent 1.0ct diamond in my comparison test (similar specs).
My Tiffany 3.15ct GIA almost-super-ideal (but not a 000) diamond ring sparkled MORE than my HOF.

That said, when it was posted that Tiffany said they stopped using GIA due to inconsistencies in grading, I wondered the same about AGS because if my HOF earrings were really AGS 000, I would have expected them to sparkle more than a non 000 stone. (Keep in mind, I was going to purchase a HOF diamond ring and went to Tiffany to prove my point). I don't know if AGS is looser in grading than GIA grading. That is what prompted my statement, based on the earlier comment about GIA inconsistencies. It could be the exact diamond specs that made the difference regardless of 000 or not.

OP... big big apologies here for this petty side thread which really does not make a difference to you in your decision. It was rude of us to hijack.

My best wishes to you in your final selection!
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,045
I personally believe you can get a false report from any lab because it happens! And I also don't buy into a lot of labs high priced money scams. Don't get me wrong not all labs are lagit but the way I look at it is if you can find the lab on Google and track your certification then it's probably a lagit cert. I mean no laboratory would want to worry about false advertisement or misleading people on account of the laws and lawsuits that could possibly incur would they.
Please may I ask if you can clarify what you mean by "a lot of labs [sic] high prices money scams"?


@foxinsox Let me clear so as not to confuse you any further... my ring... Tiffany appraisal = GIA appraisal. The stats are identical on the Tiffany report and the GIA report, so it is the same.

My HOF 1.0ct AGS 000 diamond earring sparkled LESS than the Tiffany GIA certified equivalent 1.0ct diamond in my comparison test (similar specs).
My Tiffany 3.15ct GIA almost-super-ideal (but not a 000) diamond ring sparkled MORE than my HOF.

That said, when it was posted that Tiffany said they stopped using GIA due to inconsistencies in grading, I wondered the same about AGS because if my HOF earrings were really AGS 000, I would have expected them to sparkle more than a non 000 stone. (Keep in mind, I was going to purchase a HOF diamond ring and went to Tiffany to prove my point). I don't know if AGS is looser in grading than GIA grading. That is what prompted my statement, based on the earlier comment about GIA inconsistencies. It could be the exact diamond specs that made the difference regardless of 000 or not.

OP... big big apologies here for this petty side thread which really does not make a difference to you in your decision. It was rude of us to hijack.

My best wishes to you in your final selection!
I think that you would need to post all the angles of each of the stones you are referring to - it may be that the LGFs of the stones that 'sparkle' more are longer, therefore creating more pin-fire sparkle instead of the broad (and slower) flashes you'd get from shorter LGFs, for example.

GIAXXX and AGS000 both permit a range of angles and measurements within them (GIA wider than AGS) so as you mention, I think it would be the exact diamond specs that made the difference, rather than an AGS000 inherently having less 'sparkle' than a Tiffany GIA because of 'looseness' in grading.

Neither lab grades 'sparkle', AFAIK - they grade physical measurements against predetermined criteria, and in AGS's case, also measure the level of light return these measurements have produced and the angles the light is captured from.

'Sparkle', 'scintillation', 'fire'... all of these are very difficult to quantify, especially with monocular grading equipment (rather than our binocular eyes) hence aren't graded at this moment in time. They have been the subject of past discussion on the forum, though, which I have found very interesting, so I would highly recommend searching out previous threads :))
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,045
But get the Tiffany being fully informed on the reality of the industry, not being swayed by marketing hype and having made the Tiffany SA work to find you the best stone for your money. You're the customer and this is a significant purchase so you deserve for it to be the best.
These are wise words!
 

Dreamearth

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 1, 2018
Messages
9
Hello, anyone who's still following this thread!!
Sorry for not posting for a while. I gave Whiteflash some dimensions and photos of a ring I was eyeing on eBay to see if they'd be able to put the new diamond in it, but they said they'd have to change the head/prongs. That's cool they have that service, but the prongs are the best part of the Tiffany setting!
So I'm not doing that. I was suddenly burned out from looking at rings, and I think I was overtired. I couldn't sleep well with all the excitement lately.

Anyway, I had to go to a big mall nearby for other reasons where they also have a Tiffany store (and a Cartier and Hermes and LV on the same intersection - mall doesn't necessarily mean common!) and tried on a few different sizes just to double check. Did you know the Tiffany setting comes in a few widths? You guys are probably used to seeing the 2mm+ wide band because it's used for the bigger stones, but there's also a dainty 1.5ish mm wide one. I still like the size and I love the ring design.

upload_2018-4-7_19-2-14.png upload_2018-4-7_19-6-56.png

Is there a reason you are looking only at 0.27 stones? What if Tiffany had a 0.31 or 0.28? Or 0.26? Seems more limiting than probably needed, unless it's a lucky number or something
Yes! Just the 7 actually, but I also met my BF 5 years ago at age 27. I find significance in all sorts of numbers. I might be developing some odd mental disorder...

Faint will do absolutely nothing to the stone's appearance. In fact, AGS did away with the faint grade for this reason, and has merged both "none" and "faint" fluorescence into a single category called "negligible." If you really want a stone that will exhibit all of the cool fluorescent effects and is vetted to not have any downsides (like milkiness) then the Brian Gavin Blue line is probably your best bet.
Interesting! I didn't know that. That's too bad it wont do anything for the stone. I was considering a .30 ish carat BG Blue diamond (I think the only one that small!) for a bit, but the settings there were all pretty thick.

Tiffany Option 2: I VVS2, Faint, 56% table, 62% depth, CA 34.9, PA 40.9

Tiffany Option 2 is far better than #1 by the numbers. This should have better fire and light return than your first selection. This has proportions that would be worth pursing even if not a Tiffany stone. If you want to be sure of light return, and assuming they don't have the tool, you can take your own ASET picture.
So anyway, this 2nd option was able to be shipped to the store in time for my Friday appt with Tiffany. I didn't know until I got there, because even though the SA called me and left a message about it, my phone didn't list ANY notification about the missed call or voicemail. Ugh. I wish I had known, because all I was prepared for at the appt was taking a look at the stone I had a deposit on (the one with 3.5 HCA score) and just getting the deposit refunded. My BF suddenly had an online meeting (We both work online) but was able to do it in a cafe nearby in case he needed to come with the credit card or something.

They offered me a drink, but I declined since I was not expecting to buy anything and also if the meeting ended, my BF would join me later. The SA told me how he had the second ring to compare, and I suddenly got nervous and was confused why my phone kept this secret from me. (I found the message later, so the SA didn't call the wrong number or something.)
He kept offering me a drink so I just accepted water.
Both of the rings, for being pretty much the exact same thing were very different! Not so much in the diamond, but in the setting.
upload_2018-4-7_18-13-59.png
The 1st ring had really thin and longer prongs than the other. It looked really elegant! One prong was a hair off place on the diamond, but I wondered if that'd be easy to fix.
The 2nd ring had shorter and more knobby prongs and the metal on the head was much thicker than the other. Some of the prongs were slightly larger on the ends than the others. Note: this is on a super picky scale.
The diamond was hard to tell the difference.
I also brought in my UV light to check the fluorescence. The 1st diamond seemed slightly brighter than the 2nd. It was more "evenly glowy" and the 2nd one was kinda hard to gauge the level. It might have had more bright sparkles under the UV light, so maybe that's why. Is that what it'd be like in the sunlight? They were kind enough to bring out a no fluor diamond to compare and I could see the difference.
My BF came in sooner than I thought and he wasn't expecting to be spending much time there :???: His hair was really messy in a knit hat and he was wearing some sloppy clothes. He also declined getting a drink and just drank out of my glass. We share everything so I wouldn't have cared, but in a store like that I was pretty embarrassed. This led to the SA calling the guy who offered the drinks back over and to get another water asap. The grey hairs on my head just multiplied...

My recommendation is to not rely solely on math and angles. Diamonds each have their own life. The “one” will sparkle and speak to you. I hope it’s the Tiffany!
Pick the diamond that looks best to you, period.
I really should have followed this advice more closely! Unfortunately I was caught between two difficult choices and I realized I'm just not in my right mind in stores like that. For instance, it didn't occur to me to take close up pictures of the rings. Now that both rings were there my BF wanted to buy one quickly since talking with salespeople makes him even more nervous than me!

The SA brought out a jeweler's loupe for me (I forgot to ask the magnification) and I was able to see the symmetry of the 1st diamond was really nice! The 2nd diamond was harder to get a clear picture of the arrows. It looked like one pavilion facet was different or darker than the others. But I couldn't be sure. Both of them had graded Excellent in symmetry, cut, and polish.
Judging from sparkliness, the 2nd diamond may have had larger sparkles every now and then while moving it. It was really hard to tell. The 1st looked pretty consistently sparkly but didn't have as big of a random sparkle as the 2nd. When looking at the sparkles with the UV light it did seem like the 2nd was flashier or harder to focus on.
I tried to look at them in daylight, but there was only one shaded window and it was cloudy outside. Still, I could tell then that the 1st diamond was slightly rotated in its setting.
So I was going over the differences:
#1 Ideal prongs, yet possibly less safe tall thin prongs, apparent symmetry yet rotated diamond, with the downside being it's in the "discard" range of the HCA scale.
#2 Bulkier prongs with a lower set diamond, but with a difficult to see symmetry and being within the "consider" range of HCA.

I calculated I'd regret it more if I got the 1st ring because I'd always know the diamond had non-ideal angles, so I nervously decided on the 2nd. We had been planning to use Tiffany gift cards online from a gift card resale website to save an extra 4-6%, but my BF didn't want to bother with that now. It took a long time for them to ring up the purchase and I considered asking for some champagne like I was looking forward to do if we did buy there, but to be honest I don't even know if my ring's price warrants champagne. There was another couple the Saturday before who got champagne, but I have no idea what they bought. We took a few pictures together but it was too bad my BF looked so messy.

upload_2018-4-7_22-0-19.png
Only pic I took of it when they were wrapping it up zoomed in

When we left I was a bit sad we didn't get to celebrate with champagne and it wasn't an easy decision. Since yesterday I've been boomeranging back and forth between being sure and not sure I made the right decision. The ring is still all wrapped up because he plans to officially propose sometime later. Once he proposes and we announce it there will be so much associated sentimentality I wouldn't be able to change it. Now he will be gone for a week on a business trip starting tomorrow (another reason he was in a rush to buy after that meeting) and I'll probably inspect it again at my own glacial pace and try to post pictures with the loupe I'm ordering.

I didn't anticipate feeling this unusual about it! Also, my cousin who I grew up with had her first baby on Thursday - Congratulations! That was really surreal and might be affecting me too.

For anyone who read this far, I hope you were amused by this unfiltered neuroticism! It helped me to write it all out.
No matter the outcome, in the future I hope I'll look back on it fondly as a whirlwind ring tour guided by the fairy godmothers on Pricescope.:D
 

Attachments

motownmama

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 9, 2008
Messages
7,278
Congratulations!! When might he propose? Come back and post a ton of pics! You have beautiful hands btw.
 

Golden_bird

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
411
Hello, anyone who's still following this thread!!
Sorry for not posting for a while. I gave Whiteflash some dimensions and photos of a ring I was eyeing on eBay to see if they'd be able to put the new diamond in it, but they said they'd have to change the head/prongs. That's cool they have that service, but the prongs are the best part of the Tiffany setting!
So I'm not doing that. I was suddenly burned out from looking at rings, and I think I was overtired. I couldn't sleep well with all the excitement lately.

Anyway, I had to go to a big mall nearby for other reasons where they also have a Tiffany store (and a Cartier and Hermes and LV on the same intersection - mall doesn't necessarily mean common!) and tried on a few different sizes just to double check. Did you know the Tiffany setting comes in a few widths? You guys are probably used to seeing the 2mm+ wide band because it's used for the bigger stones, but there's also a dainty 1.5ish mm wide one. I still like the size and I love the ring design.

upload_2018-4-7_19-2-14.png upload_2018-4-7_19-6-56.png


Yes! Just the 7 actually, but I also met my BF 5 years ago at age 27. I find significance in all sorts of numbers. I might be developing some odd mental disorder...


Interesting! I didn't know that. That's too bad it wont do anything for the stone. I was considering a .30 ish carat BG Blue diamond (I think the only one that small!) for a bit, but the settings there were all pretty thick.


So anyway, this 2nd option was able to be shipped to the store in time for my Friday appt with Tiffany. I didn't know until I got there, because even though the SA called me and left a message about it, my phone didn't list ANY notification about the missed call or voicemail. Ugh. I wish I had known, because all I was prepared for at the appt was taking a look at the stone I had a deposit on (the one with 3.5 HCA score) and just getting the deposit refunded. My BF suddenly had an online meeting (We both work online) but was able to do it in a cafe nearby in case he needed to come with the credit card or something.

They offered me a drink, but I declined since I was not expecting to buy anything and also if the meeting ended, my BF would join me later. The SA told me how he had the second ring to compare, and I suddenly got nervous and was confused why my phone kept this secret from me. (I found the message later, so the SA didn't call the wrong number or something.)
He kept offering me a drink so I just accepted water.
Both of the rings, for being pretty much the exact same thing were very different! Not so much in the diamond, but in the setting.
upload_2018-4-7_18-13-59.png
The 1st ring had really thin and longer prongs than the other. It looked really elegant! One prong was a hair off place on the diamond, but I wondered if that'd be easy to fix.
The 2nd ring had shorter and more knobby prongs and the metal on the head was much thicker than the other. Some of the prongs were slightly larger on the ends than the others. Note: this is on a super picky scale.
The diamond was hard to tell the difference.
I also brought in my UV light to check the fluorescence. The 1st diamond seemed slightly brighter than the 2nd. It was more "evenly glowy" and the 2nd one was kinda hard to gauge the level. It might have had more bright sparkles under the UV light, so maybe that's why. Is that what it'd be like in the sunlight? They were kind enough to bring out a no fluor diamond to compare and I could see the difference.
My BF came in sooner than I thought and he wasn't expecting to be spending much time there :???: His hair was really messy in a knit hat and he was wearing some sloppy clothes. He also declined getting a drink and just drank out of my glass. We share everything so I wouldn't have cared, but in a store like that I was pretty embarrassed. This led to the SA calling the guy who offered the drinks back over and to get another water asap. The grey hairs on my head just multiplied...





I really should have followed this advice more closely! Unfortunately I was caught between two difficult choices and I realized I'm just not in my right mind in stores like that. For instance, it didn't occur to me to take close up pictures of the rings. Now that both rings were there my BF wanted to buy one quickly since talking with salespeople makes him even more nervous than me!

The SA brought out a jeweler's loupe for me (I forgot to ask the magnification) and I was able to see the symmetry of the 1st diamond was really nice! The 2nd diamond was harder to get a clear picture of the arrows. It looked like one pavilion facet was different or darker than the others. But I couldn't be sure. Both of them had graded Excellent in symmetry, cut, and polish.
Judging from sparkliness, the 2nd diamond may have had larger sparkles every now and then while moving it. It was really hard to tell. The 1st looked pretty consistently sparkly but didn't have as big of a random sparkle as the 2nd. When looking at the sparkles with the UV light it did seem like the 2nd was flashier or harder to focus on.
I tried to look at them in daylight, but there was only one shaded window and it was cloudy outside. Still, I could tell then that the 1st diamond was slightly rotated in its setting.
So I was going over the differences:
#1 Ideal prongs, yet possibly less safe tall thin prongs, apparent symmetry yet rotated diamond, with the downside being it's in the "discard" range of the HCA scale.
#2 Bulkier prongs with a lower set diamond, but with a difficult to see symmetry and being within the "consider" range of HCA.

I calculated I'd regret it more if I got the 1st ring because I'd always know the diamond had non-ideal angles, so I nervously decided on the 2nd. We had been planning to use Tiffany gift cards online from a gift card resale website to save an extra 4-6%, but my BF didn't want to bother with that now. It took a long time for them to ring up the purchase and I considered asking for some champagne like I was looking forward to do if we did buy there, but to be honest I don't even know if my ring's price warrants champagne. There was another couple the Saturday before who got champagne, but I have no idea what they bought. We took a few pictures together but it was too bad my BF looked so messy.

upload_2018-4-7_22-0-19.png
Only pic I took of it when they were wrapping it up zoomed in

When we left I was a bit sad we didn't get to celebrate with champagne and it wasn't an easy decision. Since yesterday I've been boomeranging back and forth between being sure and not sure I made the right decision. The ring is still all wrapped up because he plans to officially propose sometime later. Once he proposes and we announce it there will be so much associated sentimentality I wouldn't be able to change it. Now he will be gone for a week on a business trip starting tomorrow (another reason he was in a rush to buy after that meeting) and I'll probably inspect it again at my own glacial pace and try to post pictures with the loupe I'm ordering.

I didn't anticipate feeling this unusual about it! Also, my cousin who I grew up with had her first baby on Thursday - Congratulations! That was really surreal and might be affecting me too.

For anyone who read this far, I hope you were amused by this unfiltered neuroticism! It helped me to write it all out.
No matter the outcome, in the future I hope I'll look back on it fondly as a whirlwind ring tour guided by the fairy godmothers on Pricescope.:D
Congratulations!!! Sometimes we invision something , but in real life it can happen in different way , but it doesn’t mean it a bad way ! You got your dream ring and stone !! Forget about all the hassle ! It’s exciting that you will start a new page in your life with a person you love ! You will have so many invents to celebrate if you wish with Tiffany :))
 

motownmama

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 9, 2008
Messages
7,278
I have an idea that may or may not appeal to you. Get your wedding band at Tiffany. Call ahead to say you got your ER and it wasn't as special an experience as you'd hoped. TELL them you are coming to try on wedding bands and want the champagne. Wear your pretty engagement ring on your lovely hand and ask your BF to dress in such a manner that you'd be happy to be photographed together.
 

skypie

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Messages
503
I agree with motownmama. Sounds like a big part of paying the Tiffany premium is for the experience. You paid for it so you should get that magical Tiffany experience you expected.

I'm sure Defender-of-Tiffany can help weigh in on what that should feel like!
 

Miki Moto

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 6, 2018
Messages
577
Hi! Defender-of-Tiffany here!
Sadly though, I am more a shy, low profile person and did not want any of attention or the Tiffany experience.

They asked me in advance who was coming, to set up a private room, offer you champagne, chocolates and other stuff, but I told them no, and asked them please do not make a big deal out of it. I'm just a simple person (who happens to love jewelry). So unfortunately, I cannot comment but it sounds wonderful if you like that kind of stuff.

So sorry, I cannot tell you how it was... my transaction was simple... very boring, no excitement.
 
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