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Lab grown diamonds will make good natural diamonds way more expensive

VDK1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
182
These are the diamonds that will suffer - they will be replaced by nice looking LGDs.
That will take away half their profits or more and result in many mine closures.
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Thanks. Do you mean the retail price of 1ct -2 ct nature diamonds also will drop?
 

Cerulean

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 13, 2019
Messages
863
Man made diamonds and mined diamonds each have their merits. I thought the original post was an interesting one. This thread really derailed for me, especially as people started projecting their own opinions on entire swaths if the marketplace. (E.g. generalizations about purchasers 35 and under not being motivated to buy mined). Unless there is data to substantiate this, I consider this opinion that is not bolstered by anecdotes.

PS is a place where everyone can enjoy their jewelry. I like both mined and lab for different reasons, and I expect others do or don’t for their own reasons. The fact that there is such argument about this topic across dozens of posts, suggests that both markets will persist.

I find the comparison to IVF a bit off and a bit cruel. It also turns this into a moral debate..no one is going to argue that an IVF baby is less human, it’s just not an analogy that makes sense her. I’d compare MMD/ mined maybe to meat that is harvested from an animal, or grown in a lab. There will be purist “meat eaters” who are revolted by the idea of eating lab grown meat. Lab grown will probably have different fat marbling, texture, etc...but it will be edible, possess nutrients and delicious to someone. Lab grown meat might even convert some vegetarians who stopped eating meat for ethical reasons.

So...if someone likes mined and considers labs “fake”, who cares, and why feel a need to convert them? They are not naturally occurring, point blank. And for someone, that’s enough to consider them “fake” even if the diamonds are chemically the same. Having a tit for tat over fakeness or authenticity doesn’t change anything. It also doesn’t detract from how you experience your own treasures. If you think labs are a “smarter” purchase or that if you like mined only you’re a “snob”...no need to preach and try to convert.

I love my antique mined diamonds. I find the knowledge of the slow and natural processes that created them to be a beautiful thing. Can’t I marvel at what the earth created? But I am also excited for the MMD market to mature and for more highly skilled cutters to add them to their inventory. I also won’t judge vendors who stick to mined. I especially find the dichotomy of an “antique style” cut for a MMD made possible by modern science very intriguing on principle! I hope to snag a ~2 carat, high color “antique cut” MMD Asscher one day. Yum.

I also imagine as @Garry H (Cut Nut) stated that there is a limit to how inexpensive they will be, as the labor in cutting them is a big factor I imagine? Also just managing supply chain?
 
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pearaffair

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
3,259
Or maybe they just ignored him? I personally tend to skip over most trade posts because I feel they can't be objective, especially about something that is a direct competition to their livelihood. Trade or not, most people in the jewelry business are not gemologists. They're business people and their goal is getting sales. I only responded to his above comment because he responded directly to me.



You guys are so funny. My stash has become overwhelming and it's obvious I never wear 99.999% of it. I often think about what happens if something happens to me unexpectedly. While we have a living trust and I keep a detailed spreadsheet, someone still has to deal with the actual jewelry and selling. What if they mix up the items? There's no way I can trust someone else to do it, I'd probably crawl out of the urn if they f*k up.:lol-2:
Ok major tangent but... would they have to sell? Or could they just be given to family members? And close friends? Shrug.

but I feel you. Omg if anyone had to sell my collection they would have NO IDEA. Maybe I’ll put a note in my jewellery box that says: ask PS for help or you’ll be screwed over, trust me lol.
 

AprilBaby

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
11,459
My boomer friends and I have plenty of mined natural diamonds. We now love MMD to get extra pieces we want without the big price tag. I would rather save my retirement money.
 

ForteKitty

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
4,733
Ok major tangent but... would they have to sell? Or could they just be given to family members? And close friends? Shrug.

but I feel you. Omg if anyone had to sell my collection they would have NO IDEA. Maybe I’ll put a note in my jewellery box that says: ask PS for help or you’ll be screwed over, trust me lol.
I have a note: "please let Jocelyn take care of everything, i don't trust any of you" :lol-2:

My siblings aren't having kids, I have one son. My siblings already picked out what they wanted and they don't want much. My son's getting a few things and I'm selling the rest. My friends with kids have been receiving jewelry since the kids were born, and they will eventually inherit more when they get older. But last I counted I had a several hundred items sitting in bank safes. (lots of loose and small but quality gems, and smaller diamond and gem jewelry) I've been hoarding for 20 years and it's out of control at this point. It's just so time consuming to post things for sale and I'm SO lazy.
 

pearaffair

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
3,259
I have a note: "please let Jocelyn take care of everything, i don't trust any of you" :lol-2:

My siblings aren't having kids, I have one son. My siblings already picked out what they wanted and they don't want much. My son's getting a few things and I'm selling the rest. My friends with kids have been receiving jewelry since the kids were born, and they will eventually inherit more when they get older. But last I counted I had a several hundred items sitting in bank safes. I've been hoarding for 20 years and it's out of control at this point. It's just so time consuming to post things for sale and I'm SO lazy.
Good plan! Jocelyn will take care of things <3

I hear you. Properly posting things is certainly time consuming.
 

nala

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Messages
4,918
I have a note: "please let Jocelyn take care of everything, i don't trust any of you" :lol-2:

My siblings aren't having kids, I have one son. My siblings already picked out what they wanted and they don't want much. My son's getting a few things and I'm selling the rest. My friends with kids have been receiving jewelry since the kids were born, and they will eventually inherit more when they get older. But last I counted I had a several hundred items sitting in bank safes. (lots of loose and small but quality gems, and smaller diamond and gem jewelry) I've been hoarding for 20 years and it's out of control at this point. It's just so time consuming to post things for sale and I'm SO lazy.
To Further digress. Do you foresee that lgd will devalue all your loose mined diamonds? This thread is about speculation, after all. And since you did say (I’m quoting the old fashioned way) “I often think about what happens if something happens to me unexpectedly. While we have a living trust and I keep a detailed spreadsheet, someone still has to deal with the actual jewelry and selling. What if they mix up the items? There's no way I can trust someone else to do it, I'd probably crawl out of the urn if they f*k up.:lol-2:
I infer that recouping some of your money is of importance to you and I’m curious to know your outlook.
 
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123ducklings

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
554
So...if someone likes mined and considers labs “fake”, who cares, and why feel a need to convert them? They are not naturally occurring, point blank. And for someone, that’s enough to consider them “fake” even if the diamonds are chemically the same. Having a tit for tat over fakeness or authenticity doesn’t change anything. It also doesn’t detract from how you experience your own treasures. If you think labs are a “smarter” purchase or that if you like mined only you’re a “snob”...no need to preach and try to convert.
Commenting as someone who’s been lurking and reading this forum and PS in general for many years, I’d say the majority of PS-ers do take the “live and let live” approach. Unfortunately these types of threads usually devolve into petty arguing from the most aggressive “pro-mined” and “pro-MMD” posters, and I think you’ve hit on the reason why: Other people’s opinions are inextricably connected to how those posters experience and enjoy their diamonds.

For the pro-mined diamond posters who only pop on this forum to say snide things and look down their noses, the luxury, expense, and exclusivity of diamonds are important components to their enjoyment (or they are trade members who have a financial interest in making the distinction). For the pro-MMD posters who shout in all caps that their diamonds ARE REAL, there’s an insecurity and a need for validation connected to their jewelry.

As the MMD market has expanded the conversations have evolved and it seems like a lot of PS-ers have started to process and unpack those emotions that can get folded in (often subconsciously) with jewelry. I’ve noticed recent discussion has become more nuanced and substantive, and I hope we can keep moving in that direction.
 

ForteKitty

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
4,733
To Further digress. Do you foresee that lgd will devalue all your loose mined diamonds? This thread is about speculation, after all. And since you did say (I’m quoting the old fashioned way) “I often think about what happens if something happens to me unexpectedly. While we have a living trust and I keep a detailed spreadsheet, someone still has to deal with the actual jewelry and selling. What if they mix up the items? There's no way I can trust someone else to do it, I'd probably crawl out of the urn if they f*k up.:lol-2:
I infer that recouping some of your money is of importance to you.
I think for some of the specs, yes, because smaller sizes labs are easier/cheaper to produce so they will be more abundant, leading to much cheaper pricing, which will end up affecting pricing of natural diamonds in the secondary market. Below 1ct I color would be my guess, and I do have a lot of loose natural oecs in that range. Being realistic, I know that budget plays a large part of a purchase. Judging by the current secondary market, I'd expect to lower my price if I really wanted to sell. Because who would pay 2k for something if they see a similar looking item for $700? Luckily I haven't paid full retail for any of my stuff, so hopefully I won't lose as much. I do think labs will continue to get cheaper because technology is getting better and the market will be similar to computers and tvs. Not because demand will be less, but because production costs will go way down. My first computer which is a piece of shit by today's standard was like 3k, haha. Look how cheap they are now because the cost to produce them is so much less.

But really that quoted comment was geared towards them mixing up the rings. I'm more concerned they'd sell my 2ct emerald navette ring with 2ctw oecs for $500 because my spreadsheet has a different "emerald oec ring" on the list. Or they'd sell my spess ring for $500 because "it looks like orange glass"... that'd make me come back for sure.
 

nala

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Messages
4,918
Commenting as someone who’s been lurking and reading this forum and PS in general for many years, I’d say the majority of PS-ers do take the “live and let live” approach. Unfortunately these types of threads usually devolve into petty arguing from the most aggressive “pro-mined” and “pro-MMD” posters, and I think you’ve hit on the reason why: Other people’s opinions are inextricably connected to how those posters experience and enjoy their diamonds.

For the pro-mined diamond posters who only pop on this forum to say snide things and look down their noses, the luxury, expense, and exclusivity of diamonds are important components to their enjoyment (or they are trade members who have a financial interest in making the distinction). For the pro-MMD posters who shout in all caps that their diamonds ARE REAL, there’s an insecurity and a need for validation connected to their jewelry.

As the MMD market has expanded the conversations have evolved and it seems like a lot of PS-ers have started to process and unpack those emotions that can get folded in (often subconsciously) with jewelry. I’ve noticed recent discussion has become more nuanced and substantive, and I hope we can keep moving in that direction.
I’m pretty sure you are referring to me at some point as you further derail this thread.. I had no idea that my participation in this forum was being heavily scrutinized by the “regulars” and that I would need a special invitation to participate in this forum. I mean. You made that abundantly clear in your other thread by excluding non-lab owners. I guess you were expecting a biased result from a selective audience. I read it and didn’t really find it all that Illuminating and refrained from commenting “duh.” Believe it or not, as a long-time member of PS, I found this forum by accident when one of my threads about lab diamonds was moved to this forum. I was attacked back then and nothing has changed. I’m still curious about lab diamonds for a number of reasons—none of which you actually characterized on my behalf. But it’s futile for me to defend myself bc any actual points that I make are viewed defensively and suspiciously. But rest assured that I will continue to pop in whenever I feel like it. Bc I’m curious and I love to research. And because you all can continue to Misinterpret my intentions and that’s ok! No worries! If you go back and stalk my threads, like you did with another poster recently, you will be able to analyze that the only point I have ever made is that people should use proper names to identify diamonds—the way GIA does when they engrave them. That is it. That is all. Why the need to create confusion or deception or secrecy? What can you infer from those people by their proclamation that they are proud lab owner but at the same time don’t want to call their diamonds by their proper term? Why not say that you love your “lab” diamond? I know some posters here do advocate for that so I won’t generalize. But I suspect that is why you called the others “insecure” and yet none will take you task for that insult bc you are one of the regulars. So why is it important to me that you all make this distinction? Because it’s the truth. And if We PSer’s—some of us who are collectors, Or hobbyists—can’t make that distinction, how credible are we?
 
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AllAboardTheBlingTrain

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Messages
835
Ok major tangent but... would they have to sell? Or could they just be given to family members? And close friends? Shrug.

but I feel you. Omg if anyone had to sell my collection they would have NO IDEA. Maybe I’ll put a note in my jewellery box that says: ask PS for help or you’ll be screwed over, trust me lol.
Tagging @ForteKitty so I reply to you both - you should do what I did for my mom’s collection. We photographed each piece individually, and wrote a short description including a serial number and any other identifying info like GIA number for a stone, or invoice number since my mom never throws away ANY invoices, they’re all neatly filed (we just did serial numbers 1 to x, but you could make it more complicated by making the number according to year, or type of piece). This description is visible and readable in the picture, btw. Then we made a spreadsheet and arranged the pieces by serial number, with the description typed out as well, and a corresponding photograph, and a write up explaining what we are to do with the piece once she passes on. Also, the description was printed on a little piece of paper and placed along with the piece in its box. It works really well!
 

123ducklings

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
554
I’m pretty sure you are referring to me at some point as you further derail this thread.. I had no idea that my participation in this forum was being heavily scrutinized by the “regulars” and that I would need a special invitation to participate in this forum. I mean. You made that abundantly clear in your other thread by excluding non-lab owners. I guess you were expecting a biased result from a selective audience. I read it and didn’t really find it all that Illuminating and refrained from commenting—duh. Believed it or not, as a long-time member of PS, I found this forum by accident when one of my threads about lab diamonds was moved to this forum. I was attacked back then and nothing has changed. I’m still curious about lab diamonds for a number of reasons—none of which you actually characterized in my behalf. But it’a futile for me to defend myself bc any actual points that I make are viewed defensively and suspiciously. But rest assured that I will continue to pop in whenever I feel like it. Bc I’m curious and I love to research. And because you all can continue to Misinterpret my intentions and that’s ok! No worries! If you go back and stalk my threads, like you did for another poster recently, you will be able to analyze that the only point I have ever made is that people use proper names to identify diamonds—the way GIA does when they engrave them. That is it. That is all. Why the need to create confusion? Why not say that you love your lab diamond? I know some posters here do advocate for that. And why is that important to distinguish? Because it’s the truth.
I didn’t refer to you or attack you at all, and I never have. In fact, I said the majority of PS-ers “live and let live.” If you don’t recognize yourself in that description, that’s your issue to work out.
 

nala

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Messages
4,918
I didn’t refer to you or attack you at all, and I never have. In fact, I said the majority of PS-ers “live and let live.” If you don’t recognize yourself in that description, that’s your issue to work out.
Sure thing! Either way, I’m glad I put it out there. I invite you to reread my post bc I edited it after you quoted me.
 

ForteKitty

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
4,733
Tagging @ForteKitty so I reply to you both - you should do what I did for my mom’s collection. We photographed each piece individually, and wrote a short description including a serial number and any other identifying info like GIA number for a stone, or invoice number since my mom never throws away ANY invoices, they’re all neatly filed (we just did serial numbers 1 to x, but you could make it more complicated by making the number according to year, or type of piece). This description is visible and readable in the picture, btw. Then we made a spreadsheet and arranged the pieces by serial number, with the description typed out as well, and a corresponding photograph, and a write up explaining what we are to do with the piece once she passes on. Also, the description was printed on a little piece of paper and placed along with the piece in its box. It works really well!
That's a really good idea, and so much effort! I'll probably do something similar once I've sold some stuff. It's too overwhelming to think about right now.
 

mrsthirdcharms

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Messages
182
Wowee... so much emotion!

I love my MMD & I don’t give a darn who knows it!

Now that I have my big (for me) beautiful ideal MMD diamond, I’m dipping into the world of custom cut colored gemstones. Lab sapphire, because it’s economical- I’m here for the artistry of the lapidary, and the custom goldsmith. For now. Lab stones allow me to stretch my budget, and expand my collection.

Eventually, I would love to get some natural gemstones in my collection too. They’ve got such character and colors that don’t exist in lab stones.

Either way, I’m perfectly content in my personal journey, and appreciate the entire spectrum of both MMD gems, and natural ones. Their value is unique and specific, to me, for different and entirely personal reasons. I think all jewelry has those emotional elements for the individual collector, and they’re going to be unique, and entirely subjective for every individual. Joy is joy.

Kumbaya. 2020 is a rough year! Let’s all be kind. The markets will do what they do.
 

Cerulean

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 13, 2019
Messages
863
That's a really good idea, and so much effort! I'll probably do something similar once I've sold some stuff. It's too overwhelming to think about right now.



I find this kind of tagging and organizing extremely soothing. I wish I items to do anything like this with.

I did something similar with my coveted CD collection back in the day...

If you live in chicago...let me know and I’d be happy to let me OCD out on your collection! Haha
 

Skyjems

Shiny_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 9, 2020
Messages
154
Just split your brand into 2 different brands like Forevermark ( De Beers) and Light Box. One brand is for the high end jewellery and the other is for "costume jewellery". They are 2 different market segments!
Maybe one day, right now I'm too small for this and my real goal is to emulate people like Laurence Graff and Robert Procop who do only the biggest and best, I just need more billionaire clients! :kiss2::kiss2::kiss2:
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
42,005
They're all rocks folks.

Just rocks.
One could say that about all material possessions. All are just “things”. Not to be compared to people/animals/good health.

Of course some “things” go a long way in adding joy and pleasure to one’s life.
 

VDK1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
182
Maybe one day, right now I'm too small for this and my real goal is to emulate people like Laurence Graff and Robert Procop who do only the biggest and best, I just need more billionaire clients! :kiss2::kiss2::kiss2:
If Laurence Graff is the King of Diamond, you can be the Emperor of Diamond! How? I will introduce you many billionare customers here

 

icy_jade

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
3,615
That's a really good idea, and so much effort! I'll probably do something similar once I've sold some stuff. It's too overwhelming to think about right now.
Happy to help you take some off your hands. Like your dreamy blue spinel... or spess... mmm. You really have such a fabulous collection!

Anyway to keep on the original topic it’s an interesting space to watch to see how mainstream MMDs will be. Will they go the way of mined/synthetic colored stones or natural/cultivated pearls?
 

AprilBaby

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
11,459
I listened to a podcast on gemology last night and learned about cultivated pearls. It’s kind of the same thing isn’t it? ( I’m not a pearl person). Do people have the same argument about whether pearls are real?
 

Skyjems

Shiny_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 9, 2020
Messages
154
I listened to a podcast on gemology last night and learned about cultivated pearls. It’s kind of the same thing isn’t it? ( I’m not a pearl person). Do people have the same argument about whether pearls are real?
The difference is that nobody is trying to say that cultured pearls are exactly the same as natural/wild pearls.
 

Lessics

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
594
I listened to a podcast on gemology last night and learned about cultivated pearls. It’s kind of the same thing isn’t it? ( I’m not a pearl person). Do people have the same argument about whether pearls are real?
This is such an interesting angle! I’m going to read all about cultured pearls now.
 

VDK1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
182
Actually, the difference is that nobody is trying to say that cultures Pearls are fake and refusing to work with them.


.
Actually, that not everybody know that "THEY ARE" all calcium carbonat.

Just calcium carbonat.
 
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