shape
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Lab grown diamonds will make good natural diamonds way more expensive

VDK1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
198
So i personally as a consumer would not take that into account when comparing MM to lab grown

What do you mean " comparing MM to lab grown" please? MM stands for man made?
 

maryjane04

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 21, 2013
Messages
1,517
What do you mean " comparing MM to lab grown" please? MM stands for man made?

I think she was referring to the carbon footprint. That the environmental impacts is not a deciding factor in choosing man made.
 

Daisys and Diamonds

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
22,395
What do you mean " comparing MM to lab grown" please? MM stands for man made?

Sorry my mistake
I was watching something big and important on tv and it had my attention
i ment natural from the ground
 

Daisys and Diamonds

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
22,395
Well yes i realise its not perfect
To be perfectly honest i don't care about being carbon natural
Ive done plenty of other things throught out my life to compensate like not have children and take clean energy public transport or walk to work
So i personally as a consumer would not take that into account when comparing MM to lab grown

Fare wages and safe working conditions are another matter

Gee they dont give you long to edit a post around here
i ment to say MM vs natural earth
 

Daisys and Diamonds

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
22,395
Yea! The live broadcasts on tv right now is much much more important and meaningful to the world than those "echo friendly" mmd marketing gimmicks!

Out here in the wider world at least with MM or otherwise we get a choice unlike who becomes the leader of the free world
 

AprilBaby

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
13,232
I thought most mined diamonds were being polished in India now.
 

VDK1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
198
Figures of rough MMD 2019::rolleyes:

mmd2019.png


The estimated total production of MMD was about 7.5 million carats in their rough form in 2019. Total 66% of which was produced in China due to cheap production cost. Did those “MMD factories of the world” follow the environment protection recommendations or did they use green energy to made diamonds? No carbon food print? Make MMD from the air? Who knows?:-o

India produced about more than 20% of rough MMD in 2009. How about MMD “made in the USA” including Light Box and the Diamond Foundry? It shared about 8%.

The total production of MMD in 2020 is projected around 10 million carats in rough form in which “made in China” will certainly increase the shares and drop the price!
 

nojs

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 22, 2014
Messages
338
1. Potentially yes I could see that as an issue, which is why the recent increase of consumer interest and thus new companies in the lab diamond market is actually a bit of a deterrent for me. Just a few years ago, it seemed that most lab diamonds sold in the American jewelry market were nearly by default made in the USA. It was certainly so when I got engaged with a lab diamond in 2007. That’s obviously no longer the case.

2. While true, shopping pre-owned has less impact than shopping for a new diamond on incentivizing bad actors.

Re Devils advocate— My husband and I met while collaborating on combatting African arms trafficking, he was born and raised in Africa, and we got engaged shortly after the Di Caprio movie. 15 years later we still have careers in international relations and each spend much of our time living and working in places where humans are often not treated as such. I might take the severity of conflict diamonds a little more personally than some in the “20%” to which you refer. However I know I’m not alone.

This is why I loved when James Allen used to carry out Canadian diamonds. I’m sad they no longer do.
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
8,228
Figures of rough MMD 2019::rolleyes:

mmd2019.png


The estimated total production of MMD was about 7.5 million carats in their rough form in 2019. Total 66% of which was produced in China due to cheap production cost. Did those “MMD factories of the world” follow the environment protection recommendations or did they use green energy to made diamonds? No carbon food print? Make MMD from the air? Who knows?:-o

India produced about more than 20% of rough MMD in 2009. How about MMD “made in the USA” including Light Box and the Diamond Foundry? It shared about 8%.

The total production of MMD in 2020 is projected around 10 million carats in rough form in which “made in China” will certainly increase the shares and drop the price!

Do you have a link to that table?
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
18,416
The NYT's have caught up with me - maybe the journalist learned about this story here on PS:
1605736662035.png

 

Klaus

Rough_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 10, 2018
Messages
82
I've read Pricescope (mostly lurked) for years and have long-regarded it as a rare internet forum where civility reigns. I think the uncharacteristically emotional exchanges here exemplify how much diamonds tap into our values, and generational, cultural, and socio-economic differences. And honestly, I observe a level of intellectual dishonesty/cognitive dissonance on both sides that I think is triggering to those on the other side.

Which, why are there even two sides? That is a false dichotomy. I own natural diamonds and lab diamonds. There is clearly a market for both of these items, often times with the same individuals. Currently the market values natural diamonds more, hence the higher price point. In some situations, having a natural diamond was worth the higher price for me (e.g. my engagement ring). In other situations, it wasn't (e.g. earrings I bought for my wedding).

There is also a semantics issue - the word "fake" is super triggering, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily inaccurate when referring to MMD. MMD wouldn't be popular unless natural diamonds were popular first. Clearly, there is some contingent of MMD owners hoping to pass them off as natural. And even though chemically they are the same as natural diamonds (right?) their history is part of what they are or 1) GIA wouldn't grade them differently, 2) the market wouldn't price them differently. Maybe this distinction will change over time, but I think that the widespread presumption is that when you say 'diamond' people assume natural diamond. I think it's intellectually dishonest to say that you calling your MMD a "diamond" is 100% about accuracy without acknowledging that most people will assume it is natural, and maybe, deep down, for some people, that is what they want.

I also think there is some cognitive dissonance with claiming that you PREFER MMD. Full stop. Your preferences are contextual. Would you really PREFER MMD if the price was the same, or even more than a natural diamond? That's fine if your answer is the same. But I think it's this dissonance that sticks in my craw a little when people rage about MMD, and I think it may be what bugs others. And listen, I own MMD! For me, in certain contexts, they are worth owning. And I could not care less about what works for other people or what is worth it to them.

That said, obviously there is snobbery around any status symbol and diamonds are no different. Some people that own natural diamonds are judgmental snobs who would find me tacky for buying MMD for my wedding earrings. Some people would call them "fakes." Maybe semantically they are, maybe they're not. Oh well. Who cares. Paying one third the price for them was worth it for me and that's all I care about. (As others have pointed out, even those with limited resources wear costume jewelry, eat at McDonald's occasionally, haha.) There's cognitive dissonance on this side too, btw. Some people would insist that MMD owners identify them as such for superficial reasons, because they feel that MMD passing for natural diamonds waters down the value of the latter, not for pure accuracy as they claim. (Nala not picking on you at all, I agree with a lot of what you've said and I don't think this applies to you.)

So, yeah. I like both, but I would pay more for natural. If that applies to you, then you like both too, just for different situations. My two unsolicited cents!
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
18,416
I've read Pricescope (mostly lurked) for years and have long-regarded it as a rare internet forum where civility reigns. I think the uncharacteristically emotional exchanges here exemplify how much diamonds tap into our values, and generational, cultural, and socio-economic differences. And honestly, I observe a level of intellectual dishonesty/cognitive dissonance on both sides that I think is triggering to those on the other side.

Which, why are there even two sides? That is a false dichotomy. I own natural diamonds and lab diamonds. There is clearly a market for both of these items, often times with the same individuals. Currently the market values natural diamonds more, hence the higher price point. In some situations, having a natural diamond was worth the higher price for me (e.g. my engagement ring). In other situations, it wasn't (e.g. earrings I bought for my wedding).

There is also a semantics issue - the word "fake" is super triggering, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily inaccurate when referring to MMD. MMD wouldn't be popular unless natural diamonds were popular first. Clearly, there is some contingent of MMD owners hoping to pass them off as natural. And even though chemically they are the same as natural diamonds (right?) their history is part of what they are or 1) GIA wouldn't grade them differently, 2) the market wouldn't price them differently. Maybe this distinction will change over time, but I think that the widespread presumption is that when you say 'diamond' people assume natural diamond. I think it's intellectually dishonest to say that you calling your MMD a "diamond" is 100% about accuracy without acknowledging that most people will assume it is natural, and maybe, deep down, for some people, that is what they want.

I also think there is some cognitive dissonance with claiming that you PREFER MMD. Full stop. Your preferences are contextual. Would you really PREFER MMD if the price was the same, or even more than a natural diamond? That's fine if your answer is the same. But I think it's this dissonance that sticks in my craw a little when people rage about MMD, and I think it may be what bugs others. And listen, I own MMD! For me, in certain contexts, they are worth owning. And I could not care less about what works for other people or what is worth it to them.

That said, obviously there is snobbery around any status symbol and diamonds are no different. Some people that own natural diamonds are judgmental snobs who would find me tacky for buying MMD for my wedding earrings. Some people would call them "fakes." Maybe semantically they are, maybe they're not. Oh well. Who cares. Paying one third the price for them was worth it for me and that's all I care about. (As others have pointed out, even those with limited resources wear costume jewelry, eat at McDonald's occasionally, haha.) There's cognitive dissonance on this side too, btw. Some people would insist that MMD owners identify them as such for superficial reasons, because they feel that MMD passing for natural diamonds waters down the value of the latter, not for pure accuracy as they claim. (Nala not picking on you at all, I agree with a lot of what you've said and I don't think this applies to you.)

So, yeah. I like both, but I would pay more for natural. If that applies to you, then you like both too, just for different situations. My two unsolicited cents!

Thank you Klaus for all your very fine words.
Me Culpa:
I ate in MacDonalds on Sunday and just got back from a posh French restaurant lunch with Ewen Tyler (who found all three of Australia's commercial diamond mines).
Vera wears two rings and a pendant almost all the time.
The first has a treated blue diamond (she wanted and aquamarine and I said no).
I do not consider it a fake but many would.
The second piece has a ancient coin from Carthage, two thousand 400 years old and as far as I know it is original and not a fake.
The most recent piece has 6 HPHT pinks and a 3ct oval natural diamond.

I do not sell MMD's in my retail business. It is a brand choice.
But I agree with you on all fronts :)
 

Klaus

Rough_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 10, 2018
Messages
82
Thanks Gary. 100% valid brand choice, IMO. This is a forum where we do not judge people for wanting "mind clean" stones, aka stones that have expensive attributes not even visible to the naked eye. Wanting to pay more for a stone that is millions of years old just purely because you think it's cool and romantic is also totally valid. So is wanting to pay less for the same look. The only thing that bothers me (if you even want to say "bother" because I really don't care much either way) is when people are intellectually dishonest about their or others' motivations. You kinda like lab diamonds because they look like natural diamonds but for cheaper. I kinda like natural diamonds because they feel more rare and I like the feeling I get wearing them. All of it is subjective and totally fine.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
18,416
Yup.
Forgot to mention, the MM pinks I bought at Tucson as samples for staff training and because they were the best I had ever seen. I bought them from the son of one of the first scientists to make hi tech 'fake' gems (synthetics) that sold for premium prices. Tom Chatham told me they were some that his Dad had grown in Russia in the early 1990's. I love a story.
Vera saw them one day and said if no one was doing anything with them she would have them :)
 

LilAlex

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Messages
3,567
I think it's like a Picasso vs. an identical "Picasso" painted by someone else. Would I be a snob or poser for placing a premium on one vs. the other?

When it comes to gems, some of us like natural, unadulterated things. It is so amazing that these things just came out of the ground. It is less amazing that someone manufactured them.

I love petrified wood -- I think it's incredible the detail that can be seen; often, you can even identify the species of tree! If someone invented man-made petrified wood that was every bit as beautiful, I would have zero interest.

The fact that nature made something this way is so compelling to me. It's not just the need to own something sparkly.
 
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