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Lab grown diamonds will make good natural diamonds way more expensive

Buttercookies

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 13, 2020
Messages
234
This includes me!

I think that in Canada there has been more resistance to lab than in the USA, my standard answer is 'I don't work with anything fake'

Of course, if someone wanted to pay me $15k for a simple 18k solitaire with the SJ logo in it using their fake stone, I might be willing to make an exception... But I might refuse to hallmark it...
That’s too bad because I think there is a huge untap market for this. But sooner or later, it will be filled with bench from India or China like everything else.
 

nala

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Messages
4,914
Louis Vuitton made a T-shirt, named "LV T-shirt".

Later on, Mr.Labgrown uses exact the same materials, exact same design of the " LV T-shirt" to make a new T shirt. But he names it "Labgrown T-shirt". This was 30% cheaper than the LV one.

Which one you want to and/ or have enough $ to buy is up to you!

The same story of synthetic ( aka lab grown) ruby and other synthetic gem stones. This story of man made gem stone is not new. Synthetic ruby was made in 1837. Nowaday, you want to buy a nature ruby or a man made one is your choice!
There are plenty of LV replica handbags out there that are made of the same materials— the only difference is the origin And price.
art work, comic books, first edition novels—lots of replicas Made of the same materials—only difference is origin and price.
Some appreciate that difference bc it is part of the intrinsic value—just like natural mined diamonds. And that is a fundamental difference—which many continually deny and for which I keep being attacked bc I like to remind posters who keep asking what the difference is. why does GIA emphasize the distinction? Why does it treat their grading differently? Are they unsure that their composition or qualities may shift over time, and therefore only provide a range?
 
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nala

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Messages
4,914
Give me some time and I’ll help you with this goal by buying up your collection ;-) lol
Actually I have to say I’m surprised to learn this! Your collection is one of my absolute favourites.
Add me to this list!!!
 

nala

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Messages
4,914
This includes me!

I think that in Canada there has been more resistance to lab than in the USA, my standard answer is 'I don't work with anything fake'

Of course, if someone wanted to pay me $15k for a simple 18k solitaire with the SJ logo in it using their fake stone, I might be willing to make an exception... But I might refuse to hallmark it...
So you just implied man mades are fake— yet none of the “lovely” lgd wearing ladies are calling you unhappy and negative for doing so—the double standard in this thread is unreal. I can’t state my preference without being mom-shamed, psychoanalyzed, attacked, etc.. but you can state that MMD’s are fake and not one of them dares to contradict you. Maybe that’s a sign of acceptance in their part.
 

Lessics

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
586
So you just implied man mades are fake— yet none of the “lovely” lgd wearing ladies are calling you unhappy and negative for doing so—the double standard in this thread is unreal. I can’t state my preference without being mom-shamed, psychoanalyzed, attacked, etc.. but you can state that MMD’s are fake and not one of them dares to contradict you. Maybe that’s a sign of acceptance in their part.
I think he was joking! The way he talkes about a potential customer seemed so unprofessional that it could only be a bad joke.
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
8,192
why does GIA emphasize the distinction? Why does it treat their grading differently? Are they unsure that their composition or qualities may shift over time, and therefore only provide a range?
I am certain that the answer to the last sentence is that the properties will not change :)

I am also certain that I read (on here?) that GIA grading has changed from 'a range' to now mirror the Mined grading reports, but I'm not sure where it is!


EDIT: Here we go:


GIA site said:
LGDR by GIA | All New Laboratory-Grown Diamond Report

In October of 2020, we introduced our redesigned Laboratory-Grown Diamond Report in a new digital-only format that reports 4Cs color and clarity specifications, replacing the previously-used descriptive terms and ranges. All LGDR reports include a QR code and a link to an educational page so you can learn more about laboratory-grown diamonds, including how GIA differentiates them from natural diamonds.

Laboratory-grown diamonds will be laser-inscribed with the GIA report number and the words "LABORATORY-GROWN" to ensure that consumers can clearly differentiate the product and fully understand their purchase. The new LGDR reports state that the stone was created by either the chemical vapor deposition (CVD) or high pressure, high temperature (HPHT) method and whether it may include post-growth treatments to change the color.

What if my diamond is already inscribed?

ALL NEW LABORATORY-GROWN DIAMOND REPORT DOSSIER
The new LGDR by GIA also includes a new Dossier format, available for D-to-Z laboratory-grown diamonds 0.15 to 1.99 carats and includes a full 4Cs assessment, a proportions diagram and inscriptions for the GIA report number and “Laboratory-Grown.” This new report is offered at the lowest cost among the LGDR by GIA reports.



Fees for the new reports are the same as for natural diamonds, with the addition of inscription services fees when applicable. View full fee schedules.
 

nala

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Messages
4,914
I am certain that the answer to the last sentence is that the properties will not change :)

I am also certain that I read (on here?) that GIA grading has changed from 'a range' to now mirror the Mined grading reports, but I'm not sure where it is!


EDIT: Here we go:

Ty! But they still distinguish between the two with the two different names—which is what many here argue is no one’s business. Like it’s no one’s business to know if I’m wearing a mmd or mined—why so secretive about the origin and source which leads to the name! Why the need to create this equivocation when GIA is still clearly distinguishing the two and identifying them by their origin and source.
 

jjdear

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 28, 2013
Messages
42
I think if we look at the purchasing behavior of each generation, we can predict future consumer behavior.

I am a millennial myself (30s) and my engagement diamond is a mined diamond before I knew there were such thing as lab diamond. However ever since I discovere lab, I have not purchase another natural diamond again and wouldn’t even consider it because why should I pay more to get the same thing? Additionally, none of my millennial friend care enough about diamond to buy any. My Generation X colleague are more likely to buy jewelry but I have ever nosily ask them if their blings are lab or not.

I don’t know anything about Generation Y. But they’re prob still too young to spend their hard earned money on bling. But I think they are likely into the experience as well and not material goods.
I totally agree! Purchasing patterns and mentalities of different generations is a huge thing to consider when opining on future pricing.

I am a relatively successful millennial as is the majority of my friends, and those of us who are engaged do have a mined diamond since lab diamonds weren't as well known when we got engaged. However, none of my friends would purchase a new mined diamond after learning more about lab diamonds and are excited about the prospect of potentially having more jewelry we would otherwise not purchase. Even now, one of my good friends is upgrading and only considering lab diamonds.

None of the people I know in my generation would consider a lab diamond a "fake" diamond. Rather, more likely we would proudly show it off and mention how we put the extra funds to either 1) pay off more of those student loans if we haven't already, 2) put it towards a down payment for a house, or 3) get that bigger diamond the heart wants!
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
8,192
To whom it may concern:
Interesting site.

I note that: "**Figures for 2019 are estimated and presented as ranges: the retail price of lab-grown diamonds was 45-50 percent the price of natural diamonds. The wholesale price was 15-20 percent of the price of natural diamonds."
 

vintageloves

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
450
I have no religion in this game.
You don’t sell diamonds? Anyone who makes a living off selling mined diamonds has a vested interest in convincing people that mined diamonds are the gold standard to which all couples will continue to aspire to and that prices/value will increase. Which incidentally is the exact argument you’re making.
 

vintageloves

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
450
I totally agree! Purchasing patterns and mentalities of different generations is a huge thing to consider when opining on future pricing.

I am a relatively successful millennial as is the majority of my friends, and those of us who are engaged do have a mined diamond since lab diamonds weren't as well known when we got engaged. However, none of my friends would purchase a new mined diamond after learning more about lab diamonds and are excited about the prospect of potentially having more jewelry we would otherwise not purchase. Even now, one of my good friends is upgrading and only considering lab diamonds.

None of the people I know in my generation would consider a lab diamond a "fake" diamond. Rather, more likely we would proudly show it off and mention how we put the extra funds to either 1) pay off more of those student loans if we haven't already, 2) put it towards a down payment for a house, or 3) get that bigger diamond the heart wants!
Your anecdotal experience jives with surveys that have found that 70% of millennials will consider a lab-grown diamond engagement ring:



These “fake” diamonds are not going anywhere.
 

vintageloves

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
450
I think he was joking! The way he talkes about a potential customer seemed so unprofessional that it could only be a bad joke.
It didn’t seem like a joke at all, especially since he went on to call them fake a second time in that post. Nala kind of has a point. Although it’s not a “sign of acceptance” (now who is psycho analyzing?) but the deference trade posters receive here. Someone says mmd engagement rings are fake and that’s not cool... unless they have a trade banner under their name?
 

123ducklings

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
539
So you just implied man mades are fake— yet none of the “lovely” lgd wearing ladies are calling you unhappy and negative for doing so—the double standard in this thread is unreal. I can’t state my preference without being mom-shamed, psychoanalyzed, attacked, etc.. but you can state that MMD’s are fake and not one of them dares to contradict you. Maybe that’s a sign of acceptance in their part.
It didn’t go unnoticed, but if someone wants to sink their own business on a consumer forum who would bother to debate them?

Sharing opinions between consumers? That warrants further discussion.
 

FL_runner

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 23, 2020
Messages
202
It didn’t seem like a joke at all, especially since he went on to call them fake a second time in that post. Nala kind of has a point. Although it’s not a “sign of acceptance” (now who is psycho analyzing?) but the deference trade posters receive here. Someone says mmd engagement rings are fake and that’s not cool... unless they have a trade banner under their name?
Personally, I did not respond because I don't think there's a point in getting into an online argument over calling MMD "fake". The original point of the thread about anticipating the diamond market was interesting and I was sorry to see it derail.

In the MMD forum the prevailing attitude is that MMD are chemically the same as mined diamonds with the same optical properties. Some can be cut well and look great. But the origin is different than mined and none of the PSers would advocate for hiding the origin.

I'm not offended by people saying they are "fake" because I am secure in my own knowledge and happy with the purchases I have made (man-made and mined). I have bought for personal enjoyment without a plan for resale. MMD have allowed me to splurge on a few items I would otherwise not have purchased as I have a budget.

My impression is that mined will maintain or increase in cost, while MMD will continue to fall for a few more years. I think that small MMD will become competition for Moissanite/CZ. It's definitely meeting a demand in the market and I do think that younger consumers want insta-worthy bling available at a lower price point.
 

Skyjems

Shiny_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 9, 2020
Messages
154
I think he was joking! The way he talkes about a potential customer seemed so unprofessional that it could only be a bad joke.
Not a joke at all, I don't do any fakes/imitations/synthetics and when people call asking for fake anything I say 'sorry, I don't deal with fakes'

You can like what you want to like, buy what you want to buy and sell what you want to sell; I have zero judgement, everyone has 'their thing', natural coloured gems are 'my thing'.

It's not about pride, it's not about a moral judgement, it's just my choice.

I just delivered a kunzite engagement ring, kunzite colour fades in sunlight, the client knew this and picked kunzite because SHE WANTED IT TO FADE OVER TIME!!! Was her choice 'wrong'? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

You do you, I'll do me.
 

FL_runner

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 23, 2020
Messages
202
Not a joke at all, I don't do any fakes/imitations/synthetics and when people call asking for fake anything I say 'sorry, I don't deal with fakes'

You can like what you want to like, buy what you want to buy and sell what you want to sell; I have zero judgement, everyone has 'their thing', natural coloured gems are 'my thing'.

It's not about pride, it's not about a moral judgement, it's just my choice.

I just delivered a kunzite engagement ring, kunzite colour fades in sunlight, the client knew this and picked kunzite because SHE WANTED IT TO FADE OVER TIME!!! Was her choice 'wrong'? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

You do you, I'll do me.
It's diamond material, although man made, so "fake" or "imitation" is not accurate. It's not trying to imitate diamond because it literally is diamond, just from a different origin with different characteristics (i.e. different inclusion types and factors from what lab process was used). But agree that it is totally fine to say "i only work with naturally occurring, mined gems" - as you said, everyone chooses to work with or purchase what they like. I think there's value in being precise when we talk about materials.
 
Last edited:

vintageloves

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
450
Personally, I did not respond because I don't think there's a point in getting into an online argument over calling MMD "fake". The original point of the thread about anticipating the diamond market was interesting and I was sorry to see it derail.

In the MMD forum the prevailing attitude is that MMD are chemically the same as mined diamonds with the same optical properties. Some can be cut well and look great. But the origin is different than mined and none of the PSers would advocate for hiding the origin.

I'm not offended by people saying they are "fake" because I am secure in my own knowledge and happy with the purchases I have made (man-made and mined). I have bought for personal enjoyment without a plan for resale. MMD have allowed me to splurge on a few items I would otherwise not have purchased as I have a budget.

My impression is that mined will maintain or increase in cost, while MMD will continue to fall for a few more years. I think that small MMD will become competition for Moissanite/CZ. It's definitely meeting a demand in the market and I do think that younger consumers want insta-worthy bling available at a lower price point.
Fair enough. My feeling, though, is that trade is often regarded to be of an “expert opinion” and I think when trade calls mmd fake and it’s not about offense but to manipulate consumers into selecting their product instead. At least I certainly think that’s the goal.

I think the demand for mined diamonds is going to crater. Not right away, but in the neighborhood of a decade. The evidence is consistent that people under 35 don’t see any difference between mmd and mined. Thus there is no broad consumer motivation to pay more for mined. The only way to keep prices up would be to severely restrict supply. But a niche market relying on the small group of wealthy Boomer and Gen X consumers who value mined diamonds over lab can not sustain the current number of tradesmen. And that group continues to shrink while the market for mmd grows. Many people in the jewelry business swearing up and down they will never deal in mmd are going to have to swallow their pride.

How many times has cratering demand resulted in higher prices? When has it not negatively effected resale? I could be wrong, but I can’t logically get to a future where mined diamond prices have risen long term.
 

jjdear

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 28, 2013
Messages
42
"Fake" or no, I think as lab diamonds become more and more accessible, it's hard for me not to believe there will be a big growing population who opt for lab over mined, and it's hard not to think that will affect demand for mined diamonds in the long run.

I don't think it much different from your classic 6-prong Tiffany setting. There is still a place for Tiffany and there are people who want a genuine Tiffany setting, but more often than not, I see people getting Tiffany-style settings not from Tiffany. At the end of the day, a Tiffany-style setting and a genuine Tiffany setting aren't intrinsically different except for the box they came in.

Moreover, I think why the word "fake" doesn't feel quite right is because if someone has a Tiffany style setting, they might say they have a Tiffany style setting, but they're not going to say they have a fake Tiffany setting, and they're not usually passing off a Tiffany style setting as actual Tiffany. In terms of material, lab and mined diamonds are the same, and a Tiffany and Tiffany style setting are both gold/platinum.
 

ForteKitty

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
4,731
There are synthetic sapphire/ruby/emerald that fool the best of the best, this idea that all synthetics 'look synthetic' is a misconception.
You can usually tell under a microscope. I'm familiar with corundum inclusions and how to identify them.
 

ForteKitty

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
4,731
So you just implied man mades are fake— yet none of the “lovely” lgd wearing ladies are calling you unhappy and negative for doing so—the double standard in this thread is unreal. I can’t state my preference without being mom-shamed, psychoanalyzed, attacked, etc.. but you can state that MMD’s are fake and not one of them dares to contradict you. Maybe that’s a sign of acceptance in their part.
Or maybe they just ignored him? I personally tend to skip over most trade posts because I feel they can't be objective, especially about something that is a direct competition to their livelihood. Trade or not, most people in the jewelry business are not gemologists. They're business people and their goal is getting sales. I only responded to his above comment because he responded directly to me.

Add me to this list!!!
You guys are so funny. My stash has become overwhelming and it's obvious I never wear 99.999% of it. I often think about what happens if something happens to me unexpectedly. While we have a living trust and I keep a detailed spreadsheet, someone still has to deal with the actual jewelry and selling. What if they mix up the items? There's no way I can trust someone else to do it, I'd probably crawl out of the urn if they f*k up.:lol-2:
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,843
@Garry H (Cut Nut) Do you think the price of small nature diamonds like 1 ct + 2 ct , D-F, EX cut, VVS will rise or drop please?
These are the diamonds that will suffer - they will be replaced by nice looking LGDs.
That will take away half their profits or more and result in many mine closures.
1603405861368.png
 

123ducklings

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
539
These are the diamonds that will suffer - they will be replaced by nice looking LGDs.
That will take away half their profits or more and result in many mine closures.
1603405861368.png
Perhaps in the interim, then after a few generations of women grow up surrounded by huge, sparkling, white, mined and MMD diamonds, those “champagne” and “salt and pepper” stones will have their moment again. Never underestimate good marketing :lol:
 

nala

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Messages
4,914
Or maybe they just ignored him? I personally tend to skip over most trade posts because I feel they can't be objective, especially about something that is a direct competition to their livelihood. Trade or not, most people in the jewelry business are not gemologists. They're business people and their goal is getting sales. I only responded to his above comment because he responded directly to me.



You guys are so funny. My stash has become overwhelming and it's obvious I never wear 99.999% of it. I often think about what happens if something happens to me unexpectedly. While we have a living trust and I keep a detailed spreadsheet, someone still has to deal with the actual jewelry and selling. What if they mix up the items? There's no way I can trust someone else to do it, I'd probably crawl out of the urn if they f*k up.:lol-2:
Color me confused. This thread was posted by a trade member yet many took the time to respond and not ignore him. So there’s that.
 

nala

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Messages
4,914
It didn’t go unnoticed, but if someone wants to sink their own business on a consumer forum who would bother to debate them?

Sharing opinions between consumers? That warrants further discussion.
This entire thread was posted by a trade member but seems to have warranted responses nonetheless.
 

Yelena

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 7, 2019
Messages
408
These are the diamonds that will suffer - they will be replaced by nice looking LGDs.
That will take away half their profits or more and result in many mine closures.
1603405861368.png
Are they not profitable enough to be used for industrial purposes? Or can an inventive group of people think of another use for them I wonder? Just pondering.
 

ForteKitty

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
4,731
Color me confused. This thread was posted by a trade member yet many took the time to respond and not ignore him. So there’s that.
Garry developed the HCA and was a gemologist, and he's been with PS from the beginning. The other person owns a shop and is trying to increase traffic. I'm sure I'm not the only one who is suspicious of motives.
 

ForteKitty

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
4,731
Perhaps in the interim, then after a few generations of women grow up surrounded by huge, sparkling, white, mined and MMD diamonds, those “champagne” and “salt and pepper” stones will have their moment again. Never underestimate good marketing :lol:
I will never stop loving a good champagne! The most stunning set at the Smithsonian was this giant brown-yellow pear, the Victoria-Transvaal. I went back multiple times to drool, and thought the Hope was meh. it was so grey and they didn't bother cleaning the smudges right on the table.

None of their photos captured the Victoria-Transvaal's real color, it looked almost peachy in person. So beautiful. That one diamond started my obsession in browns and I've been hunting for the perfect peachy brown pear ever since.

 

123ducklings

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
539
I will never stop loving a good champagne! The most stunning set at the Smithsonian was this giant brown-yellow pear, the Victoria-Transvaal. I went back multiple times to drool, and thought the Hope was meh. it was so grey and they didn't bother cleaning the smudges right on the table.

None of their photos captured the Victoria-Transvaal's real color, it looked almost peachy in person. So beautiful. That one diamond started my obsession in browns and I've been hunting for the perfect peachy brown pear ever since.

Gorgeous! And I didn’t mean to cast shade on any flavor of diamonds — I think they can all be fun and beautiful! It’s interesting to me how tastes change in response to environment and influential marketing.
 

Daisys and Diamonds

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
7,024
I totally agree! Purchasing patterns and mentalities of different generations is a huge thing to consider when opining on future pricing.

I am a relatively successful millennial as is the majority of my friends, and those of us who are engaged do have a mined diamond since lab diamonds weren't as well known when we got engaged. However, none of my friends would purchase a new mined diamond after learning more about lab diamonds and are excited about the prospect of potentially having more jewelry we would otherwise not purchase. Even now, one of my good friends is upgrading and only considering lab diamonds.

None of the people I know in my generation would consider a lab diamond a "fake" diamond. Rather, more likely we would proudly show it off and mention how we put the extra funds to either 1) pay off more of those student loans if we haven't already, 2) put it towards a down payment for a house, or 3) get that bigger diamond the heart wants!
Im generation X and i also do not consider lab grown a fake
Nor for that matter do i consider custume jewlery
There is too much snobbery in jewlwey sometimes
 
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