Lab grown diamonds will make good natural diamonds way more expensive

[vintageloves]

Some one bought a fake Rolex watch on street then the price of that fake watch drops 70% . Is that a good or a bad thing?

If that one bought a genuine Rolex , then the price drops 70%, is that a good thing that he/she will buy more ? Who knows!

How much did each watch cost? If my $100 watch devalues 70% to $30– no biggie. If my $10000 watch devalues to $3000 that’s a significant loss and a huge opportunity cost in regards to other investments.

I‘ll trade potential resale value for a lower initial investment 10/10 times.

 

[Ella]

Folks let’s remember not to yuck someone’s yum. We can talk about preferences without being nasty to others about their own rings or preferences.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Am i allowed to steel that ....
Don't yuck someone's yum

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

This is some thread. Thirty years ago my (late) husband proposed to me with something other than a diamond, at my request. I'd told him, diamonds are like currency, I don't want a dollar amount placed on how you feel about me. Something tells me time and lab-grown diamonds have done nothing to change this, to allay this insecurity.

He bought me a green tourmaline, I loved it but had a helluva time getting rid of it after he passed.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I added a line at the bottom afterwards.

This thread has gone a bit off topic (hahaha a bit??).
Regarding peoples choices and family values:

We get some pretty sad diamond engagement rings in for remodelling upgrades.
And or some inherited much loved Granny's rings.
In both cases the sentiment attached to the diamond is 10 to 100 times the dollar value of the diamond.

I can see the time coming when a couple come in for their 20th anniversary upgrade to the Ering they bought as students with a LGD.
They will (like most) say we want to make this into a 3 stone ring. Put this diamond on the side and sell us another to match and a bigger new centre diamond.

If I am still around I will bet anyone $5 the new diamonds will be natural mined diamonds.

 

[SallyBrown]

If the technology to grow diamonds had existed BEFORE the very first diamonds were found in the ground would we still have mined for them?

IMO no. Definitely not.

 

[VDK1]

If the technology to grow diamonds had existed BEFORE the very first diamonds were found in the ground would we still have mined for them?

IMO no. Definitely not.

Moissanite which sparkles more than diamond and has Mohs hardness scale of 9.5 ( harder than ruby 9 ). Moissanite is regarded as diamond alternative with some optical properties exceeding those of diamond . Nature moissanite was found in 1958 but UNFORTUNATELY, right later on synthetic aka "lab grown" Moissanites flooded the market.

Would we still have mined for them?

IMO no. Definitely not.

Are they desirable ? Do we need to have a forum for them?

IMO no. Definitely not.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Moissanite which sparkles more than diamond and has Mohs hardness scale of 9.5 ( harder than ruby 9 ). Moissanite is regarded as diamond alternative with some optical properties exceeding those of diamond . Nature moissanite was found in 1958 but UNFORTUNATELY, right later on synthetic aka "lab grown" Moissanites flooded the market.

Would we still have mined for them?

IMO no. Definitely not.

Are they desirable ? Do we need to have a forum for them?

IMO no. Definitely not.

Excellent analysis and example VK.
It doesn't look good in nature and has never really got any traction as a gem with almost no one knowing it exists. Yet it is a very attractive man made gem material.
If it was available in nature as good as it looks when man made it would be hugely popular both as a natural and a man made gem.

Interestingly CZ does not occur in nature but became very popular

 

[ForteKitty]

Moissanite which sparkles more than diamond and has Mohs hardness scale of 9.5 ( harder than ruby 9 ). Moissanite is regarded as diamond alternative with some optical properties exceeding those of diamond . Nature moissanite was found in 1958 but UNFORTUNATELY, right later on synthetic aka "lab grown" Moissanites flooded the market.

Excellent analysis and example VK.
It doesn't look good in nature and has never really got any traction as a gem with almost no one knowing it exists. Yet it is a very attractive man made gem material.
If it was available in nature as good as it looks when man made it would be hugely popular both as a natural and a man made gem.

Interestingly CZ does not occur in nature but became very popular

You guys remember how moissanite used to look when they first started selling them, right? Yucky brown green tint and the double refraction was so obvious you knew something was off. Even the 6mm ones were blurry. They've made huge improvements over the decades, but in old cuts (which I prefer), they can still look blurry and appear dirty much faster than a diamond. I have some and they just don't look the same as my diamonds of the same cut/size, especially after a few hand washes. The bigger the stone the more obvious, and my diamonds def sparkle more. This is why I cannot wait for lab diamonds to get wayyyy cheaper and bigger.

 

[Lessics]

I added a line at the bottom afterwards.

This thread has gone a bit off topic (hahaha a bit??).
Regarding peoples choices and family values:

We get some pretty sad diamond engagement rings in for remodelling upgrades.
And or some inherited much loved Granny's rings.
In both cases the sentiment attached to the diamond is 10 to 100 times the dollar value of the diamond.

I can see the time coming when a couple come in for their 20th anniversary upgrade to the Ering they bought as students with a LGD.
They will (like most) say we want to make this into a 3 stone ring. Put this diamond on the side and sell us another to match and a bigger new centre diamond.

If I am still around I will bet anyone $5 the new diamonds will be natural mined diamonds.

So you are saying that you bet that when couples get wealthier they will probably want to change their lab diamond into a mined diamond? Are you telling us that a lab diamond will be less desirable than a mined diamond when we get older and richer?
I bet that there will be those who will switch to a mined diamond, but just as many who won’t buy anymore diamonds or another lab diamond

Even ancient Pricescope members are dipping there toes into lab diamond territory. One pricescoper sold her mined 4ct OEC and bought a 2ct Octavia MMD from Yoram.

Somebody made this great analogy between IVF Babies and “normally” conceived babies and mmd and mined diamonds. In the end both are human and both are a diamond. The biggest difference is in the way they were produced. But you would never dare to say that an IVF baby is less valuable or desirable than a normally conceived baby?

The only difference for me between mmd and mined diamonds at the end of the day is intrinsic and emotional. And yes I know mmd have different kind of inclusions than mined diamonds. But also mined diamonds don’t have all the same inclusions. And argyle rough is harder to cut then other mined rough. There are very very ugly lab diamonds but there are also a fee ugly mined diamonds. It’s all a spectrum.
I’m a total diamond noob in comparison to you @Garry H (Cut Nut) . So maybe you could enlighten me what the big difference is between mmd and mined diamonds? What makes mined diamonds more desirable at this point for the average consumer (not talking about the 10mio< collector pieces).

 

[VDK1]

Louis Vuitton made a T-shirt, named "LV T-shirt".

Later on, Mr.Labgrown uses exact the same materials, exact same design of the " LV T-shirt" to make a new T shirt. But he names it "Labgrown T-shirt". This was 30% cheaper than the LV one.

Which one you want to and/ or have enough $ to buy is up to you!

The same story of synthetic ( aka lab grown) ruby and other synthetic gem stones. This story of man made gem stone is not new. Synthetic ruby was made in 1837. Nowaday, you want to buy a nature ruby or a man made one is your choice!

 

[Eeveepenny]

Somebody made this great analogy between IVF Babies and “normally” conceived babies and mmd and mined diamonds. In the end both are human and both are a diamond. The biggest difference is in the way they were produced. But you would never dare to say that an IVF baby is less valuable or desirable than a normally conceived baby?

Much like flowers grown in a greenhouse, they are as real as diamonds pulled from the earth.

I saw this statement about lab diamonds the other day and I really liked it

 

[missy]

Somebody made this great analogy between IVF Babies and “normally” conceived babies and mmd and mined diamonds. In the end both are human and both are a diamond. The biggest difference is in the way they were produced. But you would never dare to say that an IVF baby is less valuable or desirable than a normally conceived baby?

This is true.

Even ancient Pricescope members are dipping there toes into lab diamond territory. One pricescoper sold her mined 4ct OEC and bought a 2ct Octavia MMD from Yoram.

Haha this might be stretching it a bit...I wouldn't call her ancient at all
And she said her OEC was too large for her lifestyle and unless she comes here to say differently I would take her at her word. Her OEC was gorgeous indeed and her Octavia MMD from Yoram is also stunning. IMO she couldn't go wrong with either option.

I don't want to call any names out but it would be amazing if that PSer wanted to start a thread with her Yoram Octavia. So gorgeous.

But of course it comes down to personal preference always. And as always, IMO, there is no right or wrong when it comes to beautiful jewelry. It is what makes one's heart beat a bit faster and certainly there is no one size fits all. Mined diamonds vs MMDs vs fill in the blank.

I am excited about all the possibilities that come with MMD. I am watching this space and looking forward to seeing what develops and how it progresses. Like FK I am waiting to see how cutting "old cut" MMDs improve over time

Just want to add one thing. Anything by Yoram, is, IMO, a masterpiece and I would be thrilled to own anything he creates. Seriously.

 

[Buttercookies]

I think if we look at the purchasing behavior of each generation, we can predict future consumer behavior.

I am a millennial myself (30s) and my engagement diamond is a mined diamond before I knew there were such thing as lab diamond. However ever since I discovere lab, I have not purchase another natural diamond again and wouldn’t even consider it because why should I pay more to get the same thing? Additionally, none of my millennial friend care enough about diamond to buy any. My Generation X colleague are more likely to buy jewelry but I have ever nosily ask them if their blings are lab or not.

I don’t know anything about Generation Y. But they’re prob still too young to spend their hard earned money on bling. But I think they are likely into the experience as well and not material goods.

 

[ForteKitty]

The same story of synthetic ( aka lab grown) ruby and other synthetic gem stones. This story of man made gem stone is not new. Synthetic ruby was made in 1837. Nowaday, you want to buy a nature ruby or a man made one is your choice!

Problem with synthetic gems is they just don't look the same as natural ones. I'd love a huge and cheap velvety lab blue sapphire and ruby, but even the best rough don't have that velvety appearance and richness (not monetary, but color depth). I only own one small pink lightbox pair so I haven't compared the bigger white lab ones, but newer lab diamond are looking pretty good from what I've seen online. . As production ramps up and technology improves, it will get cheaper. I would honestly sell my natural 4ct asscher to get a 7ct lab if it's like $5k, haha. Asschers face up so small I have DSS.

 

[VDK1]

@ForteKitty : I don't think so. It depends on where you buy the synthetic stones and which one you choose. To me the color of the synthetic gems are normally " too good to be real".
If there is such "big demand" of MMD, 7 ct should be 4.2 k USD according to Light Box standard?

 

[Lessics]

This is true.





Haha this might be stretching it a bit...I wouldn't call her ancient at all
And she said her OEC was too large for her lifestyle and unless she comes here to say differently I would take her at her word. Her OEC was gorgeous indeed and her Octavia MMD from Yoram is also stunning. IMO she couldn't go wrong with either option.

I don't want to call any names out but it would be amazing if that PSer wanted to start a thread with her Yoram Octavia. So gorgeous.

But of course it comes down to personal preference always. And as always, IMO, there is no right or wrong when it comes to beautiful jewelry. It is what makes one's heart beat a bit faster and certainly there is no one size fits all. Mined diamonds vs MMDs vs fill in the blank.

I am excited about all the possibilities that come with MMD. I am watching this space and looking forward to seeing what develops and how it progresses. Like FK I am waiting to see how cutting "old cut" MMDs improve over time

Just want to add one thing. Anything by Yoram, is, IMO, a masterpiece and I would be thrilled to own anything he creates. Seriously.

I meant ancient in a very respectful way, like everybody who’s been around for more than 5 years and has been helping this community

And I also didn’t mean she didn’t like her mined diamond. I just was happy to think of an real life pricescope example , of actually trading in a mined diamond for a mmd - and I think she is just as happy with the mmd as with the mined diamond? Actually It would be really great to hear from her how she feels about that trade between mined and mmd. And if it was mindclean for her?


I totally agree owning a stone cut by Yoram is such a privilege!

Here a two year old OEC example from parksfinegroup
http://instagr.am/p/Boe2XLhhKmK/

 

[missy]

@ForteKitty : I don't think so. It depends on where you buy the synthetic stones and which one you choose. To me the color of the synthetic gems are normally " too good to be real".
If there is such "big demand" of MMD, 7 ct should be 4.2 k USD according to Light Box standard?

So I’m at the preliminary investigation of MMDs in general. But what I’ve seen so far is very different for MRB MMDs vs Old cut MMDs with the latter being much more costly.

I meant ancient in a very respectful way, like everybody who’s been around for more than 5 years and has been helping this community

And I also didn’t mean she didn’t like her mined diamond. I just was happy to think of an real life pricescope example , of actually trading in a mined diamond for a mmd - and I think she is just as happy with the mmd as with the mined diamond? Actually It would be really great to hear from her how she feels about that trade between mined and mmd. And if it was mindclean for her?


I totally agree owning a stone cut by Yoram is such a privilege!

Here a two year old OEC example from parksfinegroup
http://instagr.am/p/Boe2XLhhKmK/

Yes. Agree on all points. Would love to hear her perspective. She has amazing taste and I’d enjoy hearing her viewpoint having owned both.

If anyone purchased an old cut MMD after owning a mined old cut I’d also love hearing their thoughts. Since that would be a more direct comparison vs different cuts.

 

[missy]

And all I can say is I’m quite behind. MMDs just came onto my radar in the past couple of months lol. I see their are threads on PS regarding them from 2018 and of course IG vendors posting them years ago. I need to catch up.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

So you are saying that you bet that when couples get wealthier they will probably want to change their lab diamond into a mined diamond? Are you telling us that a lab diamond will be less desirable than a mined diamond when we get older and richer?
I bet that there will be those who will switch to a mined diamond, but just as many who won’t buy anymore diamonds or another lab diamond

Even ancient Pricescope members are dipping there toes into lab diamond territory. One pricescoper sold her mined 4ct OEC and bought a 2ct Octavia MMD from Yoram.

Somebody made this great analogy between IVF Babies and “normally” conceived babies and mmd and mined diamonds. In the end both are human and both are a diamond. The biggest difference is in the way they were produced. But you would never dare to say that an IVF baby is less valuable or desirable than a normally conceived baby?

The only difference for me between mmd and mined diamonds at the end of the day is intrinsic and emotional. And yes I know mmd have different kind of inclusions than mined diamonds. But also mined diamonds don’t have all the same inclusions. And argyle rough is harder to cut then other mined rough. There are very very ugly lab diamonds but there are also a fee ugly mined diamonds. It’s all a spectrum.
I’m a total diamond noob in comparison to you @Garry H (Cut Nut) . So maybe you could enlighten me what the big difference is between mmd and mined diamonds? What makes mined diamonds more desirable at this point for the average consumer (not talking about the 10mio< collector pieces).

I have no desire to convert you or anyone from your choices Lessic.
I started this thread after a discussion with my dearly beloved. I have given her real, treated and man made gems. We think they are all beautiful.
The point is that natural diamond mine investments will likely fall as a result of LGDs and there will be less mined diamonds. There fore the prices of higher PS quality diamonds is likely to rise.
You are all welcome to politely argue and discuss your PoVs.
I have no religion in this game. Don't like cheats and false promises. Don't like the negative arguments used by newcomers with investors marketing money. But love the fact that CVD diamonds have a depth constraint and by and large are cut shallower and better proportions than natural diamonds.

 

[ForteKitty]

@ForteKitty : I don't think so. It depends on where you buy the synthetic stones and which one you choose. To me the color of the synthetic gems are normally " too good to be real".
If there is such "big demand" of MMD, 7 ct should be 4.2 k USD according to Light Box standard?

I dunno, I haven't followed pricing because it'll get lower in the next few years, just like computers. I jumped on the lightbox bandwagon when everyone was getting the pink 1ctw studs, lol, bad influences here. Their 10k martini setting sucked so I spent a bunch remounting them into beaded 14k yg bezels. Looking now and it seems ~4ct lab is still about $6500 on Diamond Foundry, so a 7ct for 4.2k USD would be fantastic. Even better if they're 3k each. I'll take 5 for a giant bangle!

Re: synthetic gems, synthetic sapphire color may be "too good to be real", but it still lacks the depth and richness. Is it from the microscopic silk? Whatever causes the richness, it needs it. I've looked at the high quality hydrothermal ones and while the color is fantastic, they're crystal clear and don't have the velvety look. But that's only sapphires, I haven't looked at other synthetic gems. Synthetic rubies still have a long ways to go, they all look super fake right now. Or maybe they've gotten much better over the last year and I need a refresher course.

This sounds so morbid, but the older I get the more I want to sell everything and get lab copies. This way i don't have all that money tied up and can still have pretty sparklies to play with, and upon my demise it wont all end up on ebay. Not like I wear anything out anyway, they just sit on my table and keep me company when I work so who cares if they're natural.

 

[ForteKitty]

So I’m at the preliminary investigation of MMDs in general. But what I’ve seen so far is very different for MRB MMDs vs Old cut MMDs with the latter being much more costly.

Are they really? that's a bummer. It's not like they use up that much more rough.

 

[missy]

Are they really? that's a bummer. It's not like they use up that much more rough.

Yeah. Like you I hope with time prices will go down and cutting perfected for old cuts. Right now I’m not sure old cut MMDs are there yet in terms of comparable to mined old cuts.

Sadly my eyes are always larger than my budget in terms of what my heart longs for.

And thanks to PS I now want a 25 ct Emerald cut diamond. Antique of course.

 

[Skyjems]

Problem with synthetic gems is they just don't look the same as natural ones. I'd love a huge and cheap velvety lab blue sapphire and ruby, but even the best rough don't have that velvety appearance and richness (not monetary, but color depth). I only own one small pink lightbox pair so I haven't compared the bigger white lab ones, but newer lab diamond are looking pretty good from what I've seen online. . As production ramps up and technology improves, it will get cheaper. I would honestly sell my natural 4ct asscher to get a 7ct lab if it's like $5k, haha. Asschers face up so small I have DSS.

There are synthetic sapphire/ruby/emerald that fool the best of the best, this idea that all synthetics 'look synthetic' is a misconception.

 

[pearaffair]

I dunno, I haven't followed pricing because it'll get lower in the next few years, just like computers. I jumped on the lightbox bandwagon when everyone was getting the pink 1ctw studs, lol, bad influences here. Their 10k martini setting sucked so I spent a bunch remounting them into beaded 14k yg bezels. Looking now and it seems ~4ct lab is still about $6500 on Diamond Foundry, so a 7ct for 4.2k USD would be fantastic. Even better if they're 3k each. I'll take 5 for a giant bangle!

Re: synthetic gems, synthetic sapphire color may be "too good to be real", but it still lacks the depth and richness. Is it from the microscopic silk? Whatever causes the richness, it needs it. I've looked at the high quality hydrothermal ones and while the color is fantastic, they're crystal clear and don't have the velvety look. But that's only sapphires, I haven't looked at other synthetic gems. Synthetic rubies still have a long ways to go, they all look super fake right now. Or maybe they've gotten much better over the last year and I need a refresher course.

This sounds so morbid, but the older I get the more I want to sell everything and get lab copies. This way i don't have all that money tied up and can still have pretty sparklies to play with, and upon my demise it wont all end up on ebay. Not like I wear anything out anyway, they just sit on my table and keep me company when I work so who cares if they're natural.

Give me some time and I’ll help you with this goal by buying up your collection lol
Actually I have to say I’m surprised to learn this! Your collection is one of my absolute favourites.

 

[pearaffair]

I like antiques in part because of the history. Lab made can’t do that for me.

Right now I like earth-mined because you can get top quality cut. Until that becomes more widespread I won’t be hugely interested in lab made. A lot of cutters and designers refuse to work with MMD.

 

[VDK1]

@Garry H (Cut Nut) Do you think the price of small nature diamonds like 1 ct + 2 ct , D-F, EX cut, VVS will rise or drop please?

 

[Skyjems]

A lot of cutters and designers refuse to work with MMD.

This includes me!

I think that in Canada there has been more resistance to lab than in the USA, my standard answer is 'I don't work with anything fake'

Of course, if someone wanted to pay me $15k for a simple 18k solitaire with the SJ logo in it using their fake stone, I might be willing to make an exception... But I might refuse to hallmark it...

 

[VDK1]

This includes me!

I think that in Canada there has been more resistance to lab than in the USA, my standard answer is 'I don't work with anything fake'

Of course, if someone wanted to pay me $15k for a simple 18k solitaire with the SJ logo in it using their fake stone, I might be willing to make an exception... But I might refuse to hallmark it...

Just split your brand into 2 different brands like Forevermark ( De Beers) and Light Box. One brand is for the high end jewellery and the other is for "costume jewellery". They are 2 different market segments!

 

[Buttercookies]

I dunno, I haven't followed pricing because it'll get lower in the next few years, just like computers. I jumped on the lightbox bandwagon when everyone was getting the pink 1ctw studs, lol, bad influences here. Their 10k martini setting sucked so I spent a bunch remounting them into beaded 14k yg bezels. Looking now and it seems ~4ct lab is still about $6500 on Diamond Foundry, so a 7ct for 4.2k USD would be fantastic. Even better if they're 3k each. I'll take 5 for a giant bangle!

Re: synthetic gems, synthetic sapphire color may be "too good to be real", but it still lacks the depth and richness. Is it from the microscopic silk? Whatever causes the richness, it needs it. I've looked at the high quality hydrothermal ones and while the color is fantastic, they're crystal clear and don't have the velvety look. But that's only sapphires, I haven't looked at other synthetic gems. Synthetic rubies still have a long ways to go, they all look super fake right now. Or maybe they've gotten much better over the last year and I need a refresher course.

This sounds so morbid, but the older I get the more I want to sell everything and get lab copies. This way i don't have all that money tied up and can still have pretty sparklies to play with, and upon my demise it wont all end up on ebay. Not like I wear anything out anyway, they just sit on my table and keep me company when I work so who cares if they're natural.

Haha. I’m glad to hear that I’m not the only one working on my laptop with a pair of earring next to it and not on my ears.