How long does it take for GOG to find AVC?

[Matt B]

@Matt B with all due respect (because I’m sure there are some lovely folks at GOG who would be great to work with), Jon was “the face of GOG” for a very long time. Most of us are pretty social-media-savvy and Jon has always been very present in that world. And many of us have learned so much from his YouTube videos over the years, which gives us a feeling of loyalty to him for all the hard work he’s done to educate consumers and bring us the best products possible. For these reasons, I’m afraid that GOG should probably expect to lose some customers to AVI now that Jon is no longer with GOG.

BTW, no snark intended whatsoever. Just wanted to possibly give you an insight into your target consumers’ thought process.

(Trade member)

All very true and assumed at the time of his departure. We at GOG wish Jon the best of luck and continued success!!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

(Trade Member)
GOG just felt the need to chime in to this thread to make sure that the public was not in jeopardy of being unintentionally misinformed regarding the specific highlighted text. It sounded to us more like a factual statement than an opinion, so we just wanted to clear that up to avoid any misunderstandings.

I am glad we were able to clarify that! Certainly I speak only for myself when I say that I prefer buying directly from Jon, because in actuality, I have always bought from him via phone or internet, so his physical location is immaterial to me! His passion for his work, his expertise and genius in designing these AV diamonds, and care for his clients best interests is the reason I continue to be his customer after 13 years! We definitely agree that we wish Jon the greatest success!

(I should add that I realize the day may come where Jon sells 100% wholesale, so I am speaking of the present.)

 

[Maggiemeans]

Personally, going with GOG or August Vintage directly are both excellent options in my opinion. It's a consumer win win. Both offer great education, great product and great service..and yes I can speak from experience with both.

 

[Lorelei]

I am glad we were able to clarify that! Certainly I speak only for myself when I say that I prefer buying directly from Jon, because in actuality, I have always bought from him via phone or internet, so his physical location is immaterial to me! His passion for his work, his expertise and genius in designing these AV diamonds, and care for his clients best interests is the reason I continue to be his customer after 13 years! We definitely agree that we wish Jon the greatest success!

(I should add that I realize the day may come where Jon sells 100% wholesale, so I am speaking of the present.)

Absolutely agree DS, I also wish Jon every success, he deserves it! For me, I would prefer buying directly from the man who created the AV brand too and I'd want to know any stone I was buying was vetted by him personally. I have an AVR round in a pendant and it's gorgeous and I'd definitely buy again, but I'd personally want Jon's approval that it met his creation's strict standards.

 

[JDDN]

I just hopped on this thread. I hope MattB can clarify something for everyone.

@mattb, you said that GOG has access to the AV inventory for your clients because you are an AV retailer. Can you please clarify if that means that clients have the ability to upgrade to inventory that is NOT on your website and that is NOT an "in-house" stone? Specifically, within GOG's upgrade policy, does the policy allow clients to upgrade to any AV stone that Jonathan has in his wholesale inventory or must clients upgrade to an 'in-house' GOG AV stone?

I think it is really important to be crystal clear about policies. A lot of people do not know that Jonathan has parted ways with GOG and because he is the one who created the AV line they believe that buying from GOG vs Jonathan directly is the same. From a consumer stand point it is very important to have all the details upfront so that he/she can make the best decision.

Lastly, is the stone in the video that fige posted (the 2.45 ungraded cushion) an AV stone from Jonathan or is it a vintage style cushion from another source?

Thanks!

 

[arkieb1]

I was just about the ask the same thing, I've seen it suggested that GOG is no longer honouring previous upgrade policies with larger diamonds bought by members here, things like Octavias and AVCs and AVRs in 2+ carat sizes is that true, or, since you a clearly still selling these stones false?

 

[Starfacet]

There may be some reasons you’d want to purchase from GOG or another vendor, assuming the price is the same. The upgrade policy is potentially one of them.

Also if they have a setting you like!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

There may be some reasons you’d want to purchase from GOG or another vendor, assuming the price is the same. The upgrade policy is potentially one of them.

Well, in my personal experience when I wanted to upgrade in the past, they would only allow you to upgrade to a stone in house. They wouldn't call in a stone from a wholesaler or other source. So that's a dead end for an AV buyer who wants to upgrade, unless they drastically change their policy.

(Ooops, just saw that JDDN addressed this earlier. I think there are a number of people who were frustrated with the lack of stones available for upgrade.)

 

[Matt B]

I just hopped on this thread. I hope MattB can clarify something for everyone.

@mattb, you said that GOG has access to the AV inventory for your clients because you are an AV retailer. Can you please clarify if that means that clients have the ability to upgrade to inventory that is NOT on your website and that is NOT an "in-house" stone? Specifically, within GOG's upgrade policy, does the policy allow clients to upgrade to any AV stone that Jonathan has in his wholesale inventory or must clients upgrade to an 'in-house' GOG AV stone?

I think it is really important to be crystal clear about policies. A lot of people do not know that Jonathan has parted ways with GOG and because he is the one who created the AV line they believe that buying from GOG vs Jonathan directly is the same. From a consumer stand point it is very important to have all the details upfront so that he/she can make the best decision.

Lastly, is the stone in the video that fige posted (the 2.45 ungraded cushion) an AV stone from Jonathan or is it a vintage style cushion from another source?

Thanks!

(Trade Member)

Hi JDDN, Those are all great questions that we'd be happy to answer to avoid any confusion. Yes, we are an August Vintage cushion and round retailer. However, similar to some other companies with similar upgrade policies to ours, clients have the ability to trade up into diamonds that we own. GOG does not own the diamonds in AV Inc's inventory. Even some of the diamonds that are listed as "in house" on Good Old Golds website, do not carry our trade up policy because we might not own them. They could be here on memo or we might just be selling them on consignment for members of the public. This is why it is important to read the section on each diamonds web page that mentions if a diamond can be traded up to or not or just call and speak to one of our sales staff.

Jonathan left GOG to become a wholesaler, as mentioned on Pricescope:
"Wow wow... talk about transitions. Ok... just so ya'll know I am no longer serving retail clients via Good Old Gold anymore as I am transitioning into the wholesale front and that is very demanding of my time right now.
As a part of this thread:
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...-jonathan-rhino-for-his-exciting-news.234130/

I really do not want to speak on Jonathan's behalf nor do I know Jon's current or future plans. Feel free to reach out to him on this thread for further clarification. All I can say is that buying from GOG and AV Inc. is not the same. We are two separate companies with perhaps different upgrade policies and services. We also understand that many customers look for the best prices out there and therefore GOG always will attempt to match other companies prices as well!

The new 2.45ct diamond is on it's way to be certified. It was not sourced from Jonathan and it is expected to meet all of the qualifications for us to advertise it as an August Vintage Cushion being sold by Good Old Gold. This diamond therefore will indeed be eligible for our trade up policies!

 

[JDDN]

Hi MattB, thanks for your reply. This is all very important information for consumers. I believe you are saying a client can only upgrade to AV stones that GOG owns, and that the inventory on the GOG website is a mix of owned stones and stones on memo (not upgradable) and stones on consignment (also not upgradable). In the past when Jonathan was with GOG, a client had the ability to upgrade with a lot less restriction and had access to a much larger inventory and I believe that clients assume that that is the current situation. Of course it is for the client to read the fine print, but because of the transition and changes with GOG and Jonathan, I think it is in good faith to be very upfront and verbal with the policies to potential clients.

Can you elucidate the new cushion origins?? Who owns the AV trademark? Can GOG have a diamond cut completely separate from Jonathan and call it an AV stone? Will this diamond's report have the August Vintage branded trademark? I think the vast majority believe that an AV branded stone has Jonathan's handprints on it, so with transparency in mind I think it's good to be clear!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

(Trade Member)
The new 2.45ct diamond is on it's way to be certified. It was not sourced from Jonathan and it is expected to meet all of the qualifications for us to advertise it as an August Vintage Cushion being sold by Good Old Gold. This diamond therefore will indeed be eligible for our trade up policies!

Whoa! How can you source a stone and call it an August Vintage Cushion when it is not through Jon??? That is his personal design and his patent! I'll just ask him if he has approved this and that he is getting a cut of the profit. If not, I have lost every bit of respect I had for GOG!!!

 

[Lorelei]

Whoa! How can you source a stone and call it an August Vintage Cushion when it is not through Jon??? That is his personal design and his patent! I'll just ask him if he has approved this and that he is getting a cut of the profit. If not, I have lost every bit of respect I had for GOG!!!

Indeed, how is this possible?

 

[Irishgrrrl]

In Jon's post above, it sounds like every AV-branded stone needs to be personally checked by him to make sure it meets the proper standards to be labelled "August Vintage." From that post, I assumed that GOG would be sending the stone in the video to Jon for his review. Am I understanding that correctly???

 

[Matt B]

I was just about the ask the same thing, I've seen it suggested that GOG is no longer honouring previous upgrade policies with larger diamonds bought by members here, things like Octavias and AVCs and AVRs in 2+ carat sizes is that true, or, since you a clearly still selling these stones false?

Hey arkieb1,

Just to clear this up, GOG has not stopped honoring it's upgrade policies. Many of our past customers currently use them on a daily basis. But as I referred to in a previous post, (similar to vendors with similar policies to ours), GOG's upgrade policies pertain to diamonds that they own and cannot be exchanged with other companies diamonds. There are some customers who want to trade up to diamonds that we do not own or do not exist (usually referring to diamonds on the larger scale). For example, I believe a few weeks ago someone wanted to trade up to a 3ct Octavia and was disappointed that they couldn't

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/i-wanna-upgrade-my-octavia-to-a-3ct-but-i-cant.238884/

GOG would like to own all of these diamonds in all shapes, sizes, colors, and clarity grades, but just like most companies, they have a budget to work with that cannot satisfy every single clients desires. Because of Jon's anticipated departure, GOG was hesitant to continue to heavily invest in those larger expensive diamonds as we wanted to test the waters again and see how things would play out and go from there.

 

[Matt B]

There are many assumptions throughout this entire thread. I have done my best to clear up any information I saw as misleading and in due time, those assumptions will be brought to light. We understand that people will make predetermined judgments that we can do nothing about. We just ask that those who do not have direct knowledge regarding some of the assumptions above keep an open mind until the facts present themselves. Thank you all for your time.

 

[JDDN]

You are correct in that we do not have direct knowledge and in this consumer forum, we are asking for clarification. Assumptions on trade up policies, etc have the potential to burn clients since diamonds are no small investment. We are asking and giving you the opportunity to be transparent and honest. I think the best way to feed predetermined judgements and assumptions is to lay quiet and not participate in open conversations.

Your last post is vague at best. If there are some details that are being parsed out between GOG and Jonathan, I think saying that the specifics about trademark or trade up policies are still being worked out and that you will update with clear answers to the questions asked when those details are ironed out is fine.

And actually I would like to apologize to the OP for the apparent thread jacking. We should begin a new thread if GOG would like to participate.

 

[Matt B]

You are correct in that we do not have direct knowledge and in this consumer forum, we are asking for clarification. Assumptions on trade up policies, etc have the potential to burn clients since diamonds are no small investment. We are asking and giving you the opportunity to be transparent and honest. I think the best way to feed predetermined judgements and assumptions is to lay quiet and not participate in open conversations.

Your last post is vague at best. If there are some details that are being parsed out between GOG and Jonathan, I think saying that the specifics about trademark or trade up policies are still being worked out and that you will update with clear answers to the questions asked when those details are ironed out is fine.

And actually I would like to apologize to the OP for the apparent thread jacking. We should begin a new thread if GOG would like to participate.

Hi JDDN, we agree with you regarding your comments above.

We apologize to the original poster as it was not our intention to direct this thread off course. We had no intention to even comment on this thread until we felt the need to and we hope that the trade-up misunderstanding was cleared up a bit.

In general, our policy is that customers cannot trade up into a diamond that we do not own or is owned by another company.

Regarding the other subjects that you and/or others have mentioned, GOG will indeed update the forum with clear answers to those questions in due time as we believe that certain company information should not be posted on a public forum at this current time and we hope that others can understand that principle (even if it sheds GOG in a negative light in some peoples minds during this waiting period). We thank your for your comments and apologize for our current (but in our minds necessary) vagueness. We hope that some of our responses cleared up some of the questions brought forth.

 

[sarahb]

My hunch—after reading this thread—if I were actively in the market, or planning a future AVR or AVC purchase, I’d go through Jonathan at AV Inc. I’d 100% want the guarantee of the AV Inc. trademarked brand for my purchases—I’d prefer the comfort in knowing I purchased the real McCoy. I own 2 gorgeous AVC’s from him, (bad PS’r here, have never posted pics) but cannot speak highly enough about his level of customer service, most of all, those AVC’s are breathtakingly stunning. I just wanted to add my voice to this situation. Matt, I too, look forward to learning GOG’s plans regarding the AV Inc. line.

 

[Starfacet]

I own 2 gorgeous AVC’s from him, (bad PS’r here, have never posted pics).

UH, this situation needs to be corrected!!!

 

[sarahb]

I take such terrible pic’s. I know.... I’ll do it this weekend, also owe some pearl pic’s....

 

[arkieb1]

Hey arkieb1,

Just to clear this up, GOG has not stopped honoring it's upgrade policies. Many of our past customers currently use them on a daily basis. But as I referred to in a previous post, (similar to vendors with similar policies to ours), GOG's upgrade policies pertain to diamonds that they own and cannot be exchanged with other companies diamonds. There are some customers who want to trade up to diamonds that we do not own or do not exist (usually referring to diamonds on the larger scale). For example, I believe a few weeks ago someone wanted to trade up to a 3ct Octavia and was disappointed that they couldn't

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/i-wanna-upgrade-my-octavia-to-a-3ct-but-i-cant.238884/

GOG would like to own all of these diamonds in all shapes, sizes, colors, and clarity grades, but just like most companies, they have a budget to work with that cannot satisfy every single clients desires. Because of Jon's anticipated departure, GOG was hesitant to continue to heavily invest in those larger expensive diamonds as we wanted to test the waters again and see how things would play out and go from there.

All that says to me, is that you are not honouring the store's original upgrade policies, people bought larger stones from GOG at a time when they thought they were getting lifetime upgrade policies so IMHO that's called reconstructing your legal terms and conditions to suit yourself.

 

[Lorelei]

I take such terrible pic’s. I know.... I’ll do it this weekend, also owe some pearl pic’s....

Me too on both counts.

I have the most gorgeous 1.06 ct O colour AVR in a pendant that Jon helped me with, it's set in white gold and faces up beautifully, all you see is sparkle.

 

[Yimmers]

I am also interested. I have one of the 2+ carat AVR's, and eventually wanted to upgrade to a larger AVR or AVC. I am a bit frustrated because I specifically went with GOG for the upgrade policy.

As for sourcing, it sounds like to get an AVC of a particular size, clarity and color, now it seems best to go straight to Jon.

 

[OoohShiny]

If GOG are looking to source vintage-cut stones, other than the 'official' AVCs and AVRs created by Rhino, get them graded and offer them to market (such as the 2.45 mentioned) then that would suggest to me that they have recognised the market demand for them is still out there since Rhino left, and that they will need to have the ability to provide such stones for new and upgrading clients. This is a good thing!

Whether arrangements can be made between GOG and AVInc to enable GOG to offer 'official' AVCs and AVRs, I don't know - this is something both parties may have dismissed or may be discussing, so I guess we will have to wait and see. If it is a case of the margins being too thin for GOG to buy-in and sell on AVInc stones, perhaps a pricing strategy would need to include a 'sourcing fee' for those wanting to upgrade AVInc stones through GOG. This would of course be slighty annoying for buyers, but I guess it would ultimately be similar to the way other stones are priced across the marketplace, with increased levels of service by a vendor usually meaning slightly higher pricing. Although perhaps AVInc seeks to only sell directly? In which case the above couldn't happen.

Anyway, I'm pontificating wildly and I've not even had breakfast yet lol. I will sign off by saying that I hope working arrangements can be found that offer benefits for everyone involved

 

[diamondweasel]

This is a VS1, 2.304 J.

https://www.augustvintageinc.com/co...vs1-august-vintage-cushion-brilliant-74752075

I put this stone on hold!
Just gonna have to arrange to fly over to the US
Feeling very excited!!! Thank you everbody for your kindness ang great helpfulness!!!
Will be posting pictures when the ring is done.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I will sign off by saying that I hope working arrangements can be found that offer benefits for everyone involved

I, too, hope that a workable solution can be arranged that benefits all parties - Rhino, GOG and their customers who are fans of the AV line and bought through GOG for the upgrade policy.

I don’t have a ‘dog in this fight’ - don’t own an AV nor am I currently GOG customer. So looking objectively at this situation (and I know it probably won’t be a popular observation with some) it doesn’t read to me that GOG is changing it’s upgrade policy/terms per se - I’m reading the comments to be that consumers still have the same ability to upgrade their GOG diamonds; rather, what appears to be changing is the products (e.g., cuts/brands) that will be available to them for those upgrades (e.g., possibly no/less AV stones). I can see that being frustrating for the consumer who planned to upgrade AVs a few times to achieve a particular spec/size over time and went with GOG for that ability, but the flip side is that - I’m assuming - the upgrade policy was silent to guaranteeing any particular brand would forever be available to upgrade to. This scenario certainly brings to light a consideration I’m not sure many - myself included - have factored in when thinking about upgrade policies.
Again, my hope is a solution can be achieved for all involved.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I’m going to correct myself above. GOG’s policy (per their website) does ‘claim’ ownership of the AV line: https://www.goodoldgold.com/why-gog

So I think it’s reasonable for buyers to assume they would have ‘lifetime upgrade-ability’ specifically FOR AV diamonds so long as they were in production (which they still are).




Seems to me GOG should have thought through how this was worded on their website a little more closely if they - as a company - did not in fact ‘own’ the brand as the website suggests, and ‘ownership’ of the AV brand in fact lies with (and thus goes with) Rhino.

Now, I’m really glad I don’t have a dog in this fight, and for those who do (own AVs purchased via GOG), I’m sorry.

 

[Snowdrop13]

Is GOG not a family business anyway and AV an offshoot of that? Apologies if I have misunderstood how it works.

@diamondweasel congrats on the decision on your stone!

 

[marymm]

FWIW I have scoured Jon's August Vintage Inc. website and to me it does not seem that upgrade policies are offered (or honored) as a matter of course by AVI but instead seem to be discretionary at best (unless you buy an AV from an authorized distributor who provides upgrade benefits).

Here is the text from AVI's "Our Policies" page.

Our policies are really very simple. At August Vintage Inc. your total satisfaction and complete peace of mind in your purchase is our #1 priority and the policies actually are set by you or the authorized August Vintage distributor you choose to purchase from.


If you are purchasing direct via the August Vintage Inc. website you'll have 15 days to examine your diamond to ensure it lives up to your expectations. Returns are hassle free and prompt.


If you choose to purchase via a store, vendor or distributor the policies set by that company will apply. We are flexible and want our clients to choose what suits them best.


Instances in which a refund policy with August Vintage Inc. does not apply are the following.

• Custom made settings.
• Custom cut diamonds or gems.
• If you are having a setting made that takes longer than your refund period. Ie. If you are having a setting made that exceeds 2 weeks we will gladly hold your diamond with us until it is completed but if that setting takes longer than your refund period, there is no refund after the due time that you placed your order for the diamond.
• Insurance replacement. If you are using August Vintage Inc. for insurance replacement, legally the Insurance Company becomes the client while you are their client. Once you've signed legal contracts with your insurance company like "Confirmed Completion" forms the sale is consummated/completed upon your submission of that signed document which is legally binding and there are no refunds to Insurance companies. Their legal contracts can not be undone.

https://www.augustvintageinc.net/pages/our-policies

 

[Lorelei]

I put this stone on hold!
Just gonna have to arrange to fly over to the US
Feeling very excited!!! Thank you everbody for your kindness ang great helpfulness!!!
Will be posting pictures when the ring is done.

It's stunning my dear Weasel , no wonder you're excited, please keep us posted!