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How long does it take for GOG to find AVC?

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by diamondweasel, Apr 5, 2018.

  1. pyramid
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    by pyramid » Apr 8, 2018
    Another thing re upgrades, which is not relevant to Jonathan or GOG but to all upgrades from all vendors or stores. As Bryan from Whiteflash said one time on here that a given diamond of the same cut, color, clarity and carat weight can be different prices due to how the company bought the diamond, eg. rough newly cut, chipped diamond newly cut, time of buying and prices, wholesale prices, rough prices etc. etc. and all things I don't know about.
    I have always being dubious about upgrade, maybe it is different in USA where bigger is better. However, if I buy a diamond and in two years want to upgrade, not just due to exchange rate and inflation, but there are other facts that are included. How would I feel or you feel if I bought a 2 carat diamond for say $25,000 and then in two years I see a 2.40 so want to upgrade and I pay another $7000 so I think I have a larger diamond for my upgrade, so it is good for me. However, what I don't know is that I have now paid $32,000 for a diamond which the dealer bought in for $14000 as salvage. Yes my first one was possibly $25,000 but that one cost the dealer $23,000. Now on the first diamond he (the dealer) made $2,000 but since I upgraded he has made on the second diamond $18000. So my coming back to him was a good deal for him. This puts me off upgrades, as I don't know enough about rap (as only wholesalers do), reselling, marketing, really being able to trust what they say, recut costs and secondhand prices they are paying. Not to mention how much does color prices increase over the years alongside, clarity and carat weight and even the highly promoted on this site cut.

    I tend to want to buy a diamond once, at the given rate and that is it. I know this is business and all business has to be understood from the inside or else watch that what you pay is worth it to you. Size obviously is on this board worth it, if someone is willing to let a dealer make an $18000 profit on their diamond yet they only paid him $7000 and got 40 points more. Who knows what he will sell that first $25000 diamond for now, so more profit unless prices have gone down which they do. We don't as customers know enough about how prices go up and down. There is a table on this board, which is not kept up to date each month now, but it only tells us about diamonds from certain vendors and nothing about prices of diamonds and colors not in stock or about where the diamonds came from and what they cost originally. Profit margins etc, which I realise is business secrets and so they should be. These diamond prices I made up are hypothetical but as Brian at WF put it, a stone is not always the same price, I think people think they are when they upgrade and think they are getting a larger stone.

    Unlike the little diamond rings found in the UK, where a second hand one in a shop is sold to the customer at maybe a third of the price - vendors on the internet where there are larger stones see a second hand stone as a new one to sell at a new price to customers. I have seen large second hand diamonds sold in small jewellers for less with a ticket in front of the box stating 'second hand' but on the internet this does not seem to exist second hand is repolished and is then treated as New. This is mostly seen in USA, I don't know what UK internet sites do, but I feel this is a big difference from bricks & mortar stores and is it really right, as in right by conscience or just business and taking a loan of customers. I don't know I can see it from both sides, but this world is about money and greed so I am not sure what I think really. It is not just the vendor, the public are greedy too, greedy for size and for a little cost as possible. Doesn't matter as long as they get the size they want they don't care how it came about.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
  2. Irishgrrrl
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    by Irishgrrrl » Apr 8, 2018
    I did not imply that Jon and GOG are enemies. And my post was actually based on the facts as I know them to be.

    But thanks for assuming that I’m naive. :roll:
     
  3. diamondseeker2006
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    by diamondseeker2006 » Apr 8, 2018
    Thanks @aljdewey so much for posting the actual policy!


    No!!! I keep saying this over and over. The upgrade policy has NOT changed (or at least not in the main conditions) in the last 12 years. I bought my first diamond from them in 2006. This has always been the policy that I have had on my diamonds!

    But yes, I would no longer recommend GOG for someone who might ever want to upgrade. Whiteflash is the best place for upgrades and they carry the most stock and frequently have stones in the 3-5 ct range plus plenty in the 2 ct range. But that is for H&A rounds and princess cuts. I have used their upgrade policy several times and it is an easy and stress free experience.
     
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  4. Irishgrrrl
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    by Irishgrrrl » Apr 8, 2018
    Perhaps part of the reason why Jon left GOG was this very issue? Perhaps he felt that GOG should stock AV stones in larger sizes (in part due to the fact that previous customers were interested in upgrading to those stones) and expand the AV line in general, and maybe GOG refused to do those things? It’s possible that this factored into his decision to leave GOG. If that is the case, I can certainly understand where he’s coming from.
     
    


    


  5. pyramid
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    by pyramid » Apr 8, 2018
    I think Jonathan is an entrepreneur and left GOG to take more risk and make more money. I am not saying your are naïve Irishgirl, I am saying what is being said is naïve and not just by you by any means. This is business.

    We know how it doesn't cost much to get a diamond recut by Brian Gavin etc, yet when a second hand diamond is sold it goes for a lot less, the vendors here get those diamonds cut for not much and sell them new for double or more what they pay. Not just Jonathan or GOG but all of them, the world over.

    I wouldn't want to get a diamond for a bit more and a bit more size and know my diamond has made a lot more money for a vendor. I get $7000 more for instance but the vendor gets $18000 more. Buyers are niave, me too. We all are. However, we want the bling and anything else we buy that we don't need. We want it and have to have it. We don't think straight, but hindsight is as they say 20/20.

    Even buying old cut stones on ebay we could save money but we need to know what we are doing, it is those types of places the stones come from, not many diamonds are new.
     
  6. Irishgrrrl
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    by Irishgrrrl » Apr 8, 2018
    Yes, Jon is an entrepreneur and I’m sure he did want to take more risk and make more money. I was thinking along those lines in my post right above yours, regarding the possible reasons why he left GOG. I do, in fact, understand business.

    But when you reply directly to my post with the statement “I think this is a bit naive,” I think you’re smart enough to understand why I thought that statement was directed at me.

    The rest of your post to which I am replying here has nothing to do with anything I’ve said in this thread so far, so I won’t respond since you must not have been addressing me.
     
  7. pyramid
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    by pyramid » Apr 8, 2018
    The statement I thought and still do think was a bit niave, not yourself. If you want to argue and own it then do, it is up to you. I said 'I think this is a bit niave' NOT 'I think you are a bit niave'. Also what I think is just my opinion it is not saying it really is naïve, just that I think it. It had nothing in my mind to do with you, I was not thinking YOU were niave just what is being written here by many.
     
  8. Irishgrrrl
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    by Irishgrrrl » Apr 8, 2018
    I have no interest in arguing and I do “own” and continue to stand by what I’ve said above. You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion, as am I. Have a great day! :wavey:
     
  9. pyramid
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    by pyramid » Apr 8, 2018
    I also think that being from the UK I think and read things differently. Over here a lifetime upgrade would mean the lifetime of the company, not your lifetime to upgrade when and as you want. The company may be the same but the policy HAS changed as there has been a change in management or suppliers if the AVC's are now being cut for GOG by another cutter?

    Just have to wait and see what the new policy on the GOG site says and that will be what is legally binding. Also what was written before as Aljdewey said was their marketing statement, it also has written that the AVR is awaiting patent, this is not the case now, so that means that what was written there is historic, not that it was part of the companies policy anyway even then.
     
  10. diamondseeker2006
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    by diamondseeker2006 » Apr 8, 2018
    I skipped some posts so I want to be sure I made this clear.


    Nope, the policy is exactly what it says on the site. If there were special circumstances for one or two clients, I do not know. But the policy is and always has been that upgrades are for in-house stones. I think I have bought 4 diamonds there over the 12 years and the policy has always been the same. I have asked before for an exception to that policy, such as can I trade in my diamond for 2 diamonds that cost more so they'd get some profit from the sale, and the answer was no. Can you call me in a diamond to upgrade to? No. I certainly understand that there may be people who didn't pay attention to the policies when they bought. But at most H&A vendors with in-house stock, the upgrade has to be one of the stones they have in inventory. GOG is not the only one with this policy.

    The only think that I think is dishonest is granting an upgrade policy but not stocking stones that would allow one to upgrade. The honest thing would be to say...we don't offer upgrades for diamonds that originally cost more than $10k or whatever. Or you have to pay double to upgrade and we will call in diamonds for you. Both options are bad, but they are more honest that what they are doing now.
     
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  11. arkieb1
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    by arkieb1 » Apr 8, 2018
    That's kind of ironically funny you should say that because one of the purest (by the untouchable brand on here) with the magic reputation is rumoured to frequently recut preloved average diamonds to super Idea specifications. I once read that someone wouldn't buy a diamond that went back into stock from one vendor because it had an old date on the certificate yet for all that person knew she could have been buying a perfectly cut recut stone from the vendor she ended up purchasing her stone from.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
  12. diamondseeker2006
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    by diamondseeker2006 » Apr 8, 2018
    Jonathan offered the entire inventory of his new AV stones to GOG to post on their site and they chose not to. That is why he is having to find other outlets to sell his stones.

    ***speculation One reason they may not want to is that their former AV clients might want to upgrade to another new AV stone, and they won't allow it since they are not stones they have bought for their inventory. Ridiculous? Yes. I probably would be more quiet about this whole thing if they hadn't been so brazen to post a video on this thread of a stone they had cut and are calling an AVC behind Jon's back. That was a game changer for me.
     
  13. arkieb1
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    by arkieb1 » Apr 8, 2018
    Yes I assume they (meaning Jon) did make an exception for one or two clients. I think it would be clearer, if they just said we will buy any stone back but only pay you a specific % value of that stone like other vendors do. That way the advertising becomes true, consumers don't get "stuck" with diamonds they thought could be upgraded. And I kind of call those policies out as being unfair because what if they had in stock a 5 carat AVC or a 3.5 carat AVR when someone purchased a 2 carat stone expecting one day to upgrade to either only to be told, no actually we don't stock those any more. I dunno there's something innately unpalatable about that.
     
  14. arkieb1
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    by arkieb1 » Apr 8, 2018
    O.K that makes the whole thing a lot clearer. Upgrading policies or the current lack thereof and why the current GOG seems to be fudging around the subject of upgrade options in the future. Here's my speculation - maybe they are still all in disagreement as to who actually owns the rights to AV cut stones.
     
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  15. diamondseeker2006
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    by diamondseeker2006 » Apr 8, 2018
    They do have a buy back policy. This is a policy that I believe has changed. I think my stones all have lifetime buyback maybe at 75%. I'd have to look. Now the policy is one year from purchase. This is in line with many vendors and I think it is smart because of how diamond prices fluctuate. Buy back is just for their desirable stones like H&A, AV, and some others. It wouldn't normally apply to a stone they call in that doesn't fit their normal stock qualities or size needs, etc.

    "All diamonds listed with our "Buy Back Policy" include our one year buy back. We will buy back your diamond purchased from Good Old Gold for 30% less than what was paid (minus the cost of shipping) for one year from the purchase date. If you would like to sell back a diamond that is past this period please contact us. Please note that the original lab certificate and purchase receipt must be supplied for Good Old Gold to honor this policies and return postage for items being sent back to us is the customer's responsibility.. *Restrictions apply"
     
    


    


  16. Irishgrrrl
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    by Irishgrrrl » Apr 8, 2018
    Yes, this. And GOG’s continued silence on the matter speaks volumes to me.
     
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  17. arkieb1
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    by arkieb1 » Apr 8, 2018
    Well you can't have it both ways, you said the rules haven't changed in x amount of years, but when we get right down to the nitty gritty, actually they have. Anyway, lets all agree until the company comes up with a better clearer fairer policy that works for everyone, we should not be recommending them to potential customers who want to upgrade to a larger stone, because who knows what they will or won't have in the future.
     
  18. diamondseeker2006
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    by diamondseeker2006 » Apr 8, 2018
    Arkie, the upgrade policy is the same. That is what we've been talking about. You just mentioned buy-back, which is a totally different policy. That has changed. New buyers are responsible for knowing the policies when they buy and it applies to them, not past buyers. I bought under a different buy back policy and I am confident they would honor the policy in effect at that time. It's a contract.
     
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  19. arkieb1
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    by arkieb1 » Apr 8, 2018
    Well I'm not a layperson at this and I'm confused, upgrade, buyback, hand your diamond over and get a bigger one, I label it in all the same basket. So imagine the poor unsuspecting buyer that simply wants a nice sparkly rock who thought wow, I might like to cash it in, trade up (or whatever) that 2 carat for that 5 carat one day. But they are told - Sorry no, we no longer stock them. Sorry we no longer carry them in larger sizes, we used to but now we don't. Sorry we no longer cut stones specifically for customers according to their needs, we used to but now we don't. Sorry no, we only have that policy for 12 months now, sorry no, you don't currently don't meet our *special terms and conditions*, which lets face it they could chop and change to mean anything.

    As DF & Kenny would say, run people don't walk and don't look back.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
  20. pyramid
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    by pyramid » Apr 8, 2018
    I would never say Whiteflash is the best place to upgrade, just because of their inventory. You are paying a premium for upgrading at Whiteflash, in the same way James Allen want you to pay double. Depending on your stone's value you may be better of with James Allen. Then there is also Crafted By Infinity (CBI), they may not have as large an inventory but it is growing and they have a better buy back policy during their lifetime. Whiteflash may be better at the moment for most people, but that is at the moment, so telling the public this is the best place, they go away and come back in 2 years and things may have changed. This is all for the individual to decide, their choice, I would just tell them to look into upgrade policies and I would never recommend one vendor over another, I am not being PAID to do so. Notice how quick GOG came on line to make sure DS had their story correct, what after the customers she had put their way and yet she is not even trained to know their policy (because she is not on their staff). Leave policies and customer sales to the experts in the companies who are paid and trained and then you have some comeback if you are told wrongly about their upgrade policy. People on forums are just that, people who could be from anywhere. I just find this recommending places strange and don't know where it comes from.
     
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  21. diamondseeker2006
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    by diamondseeker2006 » Apr 8, 2018
    I personally think the policies are very clear. Again, I am sure they honor their policies in effect at the time of purchase. There is nothing wrong other than the person with the expectation of someday upgrading to a stone over the high one carat range may not be able to do so ever due to lack of stock. But the end result we agree on...don't buy from a vendor who offers a meaningless buyback policy unless you absolutely are 100% sure you won't ever want to upgrade.
     
  22. diamondseeker2006
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    by diamondseeker2006 » Apr 8, 2018
    Pyramid, you are going way off topic on this thread. I think it is great to discuss and debate different companies upgrade policies and I would be happy to participate in that on another thread. But I'll stand by my opinion that Whiteflash is the best place to buy a H&A stone and upgrade due to their high quality, great upgrade policies, and reasonable pricing on top cut diamonds. I used their upgrade policy several times.

    Since you are confused as to why we recommend vendors and diamonds, this is a consumer forum where consumers are the ones giving advice to others to help them with diamond purchases. I have full knowledge of the policies at the vendors I recommend, but the BUYER is always responsible for knowing the policies at their time of purchase. We often recommend vendors with good upgrade policies if a person expresses a desire to upgrade. Vendor recommendation will vary as to the quality of diamond the person is interested in as well. This is a rabbit trail and I think getting off topic is not a good thing for this thread.
     
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  23. pyramid
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    by pyramid » Apr 8, 2018
    I don't agree on recommending anyone buys a particular stone from anywhere. People can educate themselves and decide or get help from someone in their own circle or a professional independent appraiser. People online on Pricescope can recommend what they say they would buy but I would never recommend a vendor other than educating them about cut standards or clarity etc like was done previously on here. Diamond characteristics but not pre-sales work for free. I would never make a blanket statement that GOG stones are the best or have the best policy.
     
  24. pyramid
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    by pyramid » Apr 8, 2018
    Apart from voluntary work, would you go and work in a shop for 5 hours a day for nothing. That is what is happening here. The vendors reap the profits and all your hard work.
     
  25. arkieb1
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    by arkieb1 » Apr 8, 2018
    Yes that was the point I was making badly, it clearly was and is a meaningless buyback policy with an upgrade policy that a lot of people could also never use. So don't spend thousands more being sucked into the vortex of marketing of upgrades and buybacks "some" companies are promising, without delivering. A couple of vendors actually do have really decent clear intertwined buy back and upgrade policies, that they honour, so I guess in future I will only be recommending them.
     
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  26. pyramid
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    by pyramid » Apr 8, 2018
    I think in the UK consumer forums are mostly about health and wellbeing, not something a business is profitting from so much. If it is a consumer forum then yes tell people about diamond characteristics but let them find who they are buying from and let the business HAVE TO WORK for THE SALE.
     
  27. diamondseeker2006
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    by diamondseeker2006 » Apr 8, 2018
    Please take all these thoughts to another thread and keep this thread about August Vintage diamonds and their availability.
     
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  28. pyramid
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    by pyramid » Apr 8, 2018
    This is nothing short of the runners then on 47th street who put folk into diamond businesses except they are getting paid. Thinking about this I suppose there are bridal forums in the UK, but that means then people are buying from online recommended companies instead of the shop down the road, in the same way as this I suppose. Yes it is the same. However, when we go to work each day and get paid why would we want to do work online and not get paid, doesn't make sense. Yes some have said it is a hobby for them, but you are not getting paid unless by friendship online, but the vendor is making a mint out of you, all vendors that are recommended then can sit and polish their jewellery and wait for the buyer to arrive or just pay online for their product and they had to do nothing to achieve it. They are at home watching TV and you are doing all the work for them. I know my opinion is not popular here and seen as not helping people, but this is not helping it is business I believe.
     
  29. pyramid
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    by pyramid » Apr 8, 2018
    I am not going way off topic or confused. You have recommended and got thousands of pounds of funds for GOG in the past but they still had to make sure you were not talking like an untrained junior staff member about their company (and rightly so) because you are not a staff member or on their management team but are giving out company information on an online forum about them. Jonathan left their company obviously so that if his new company is not successful he would not pull down the family company with him. They rightly so would be very interested in this not happening. To say they have fallen out on a public forum is not professional. I am not confused about this recommending things, I am quite sure it is not what most people would do for free, people here may be more helpful but they are not helping teenagers learn how to cook, they are plummeting money into companies which are already rich companies, they sell diamonds, not French fries.
     
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  30. diamondseeker2006
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    by diamondseeker2006 » Apr 8, 2018
    Obviously you know nothing about this situation. And the rest is off topic.
     
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