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Graff , Tiffiny or Harry Winston

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10868176 Round 2.03 E VS1 GIA EX - EX $33,538 - Premium 62.1 56

Just as an example for comparison in price, Engagement Rings Direct has the above stone on their site in their Premium Collection. Seems like a better stone than the Harry Winston deal and they and the other Pricescope vendors have hundreds of stones available.
I hope you can talk them into going that route. Sorry if I seem pushy but after going their route, I know what a waste of time it can be.
 
Personally, I think that if they wanted a HW ring, they should get what they like. The settings on a Tiffany, Cartier and graff are often made by some of the best craftsman. I am not too sure about HW, as I don''t see all that many personally, but I am told they are quite well made.

HW was probably shy to give in the diamond info, because they still buy from open market, and perhaps don''t want to have an open line of communication on how and where and when the stone was purchased and for how much. After all, most luxury jewlery buyers are not concerned with numbers, as they buy it for the name. Color and clarity are about as far as they generally go, and they allow the leeway to the company with the reputation on the line to buy (or cut) the stones to LOOK attractive, regardless of scopes and machines and angles. In the luxury market things are still operated on in an artistic form, and not a scientific one. If there left the artistic arena, they would extend that efficiency to production and those lovely handmade rings and custom designed pieces would be no different than your order-by-mail pre-fab pieces you buy at "sale prices".

If the stone is the most important part, I suggest he abandon the brand, and do as every poster here has mentioned and get his "bang for the buck." If not, I suggest he take that hard earned money, walk into the stores, LOOK at the stones, and see which one speaks to him. If it doesn''t walk out. But you have to decide on what you want. I don''t care who makes anything, to me the setting is what makes a stone. Clearly you need a visually appealing stone, but if it''s got a junk setting, you might as well dip that IDEAL diamond in a tub of grease and walk around with it, because it won''t be shown off right. I am not as specific in diamond cut as many here, because I am the type of person to buy a briolette, an OEC, or even single cut, or the like just because it''s so stunningly done or set in a quality piece that can be handed down proudly from one generation to the next.

Just something to think about.
 
Thank you Nicrez
I enjoyed what you wrote. Helps a lot.
Graff came back with the GIA specs
Carat Weight: 1.57
Color Grade: G
Clarity Grade: VS1
Cut Grade: Very Good

Depth: 61.1 %
Table: 62 %
Crown Angle: 35.5 %
Crown Height: 13.5 %
Paviliion Angle: 41.8 %
Pavilion Depth: 44.5 %
Star Length: 55 %
Lower Half : 80%
Girdle: Medium, Faceted
Cutlet: None

Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescense: None

Inscription: GRAFF
 
Date: 10/15/2007 2:04:42 PM
Author: Carolynw
Thank you Nicrez
I enjoyed what you wrote. Helps a lot.
Graff came back with the GIA specs
Carat Weight: 1.57
Color Grade: G
Clarity Grade: VS1
Cut Grade: Very Good

Depth: 61.1 %
Table: 62 %
Crown Angle: 35.5 %
Crown Height: 13.5 %
Paviliion Angle: 41.8 %
Pavilion Depth: 44.5 %
Star Length: 55 %
Lower Half : 80%
Girdle: Medium, Faceted
Cutlet: None

Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescense: None

Inscription: GRAFF
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Light source might have effect to some extent, but Garry''s initial observation/warning was very valid after all. Very hard to spend a lot of money for "this" diamond.
 
This stone scores 6.5 on the HCA scale and ranks poor in two areas. I think the stones from GOG or Engagement RIngs Direct are far superior. What do you think, Garry?Is this the quality one should expect from a high end retailer like Graff?
As to setting, I agree with Nicrez that some of the old settings are superb. I was fortunate to inherit a 3 stone ring from the early 20''s. The stones are not great color but the setting is a knock out.
However when I got my new ring, I thought the stone was the star and I selected a simple Tiffany style knife edge with no side stones.
It is really a matter of choice as to what you are looking for--the diamond or the setting. There is no shortage of gorgeous settings by Leon Mege, Daniel K, or WHiteflash custom to mention a few.
 
Garry,
I guess your initial response, just from the photos, said it all.
 
Date: 10/15/2007 4:41:34 PM
Author: solange
This stone scores 6.5 on the HCA scale and ranks poor in two areas. What do you think, Garry?\
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From what I understand Gary is responsible for the HCA score. I say we take the HCA results as his opinion
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that being....poor. I am shocked though...

I have read where posters from some other countries and cities (Australia being one I think?) have mentioned that larger (60+) tables are more in fashion (or at least more highly respected?) than they are in america and by some of the most recent laboratory cut grades? Their HQ lies in London I do believe, maybe that has something to do with it?


Or maybe Graff does the vast majority of their sales in a country where cuts such as 60+ tables are in high demand at the moment? I don't know how to get that info though.

Any possiblity something like that could be playing a role?
 
Date: 10/15/2007 4:41:34 PM
Author: solange
This stone scores 6.5 on the HCA scale and ranks poor in two areas. I think the stones from GOG or Engagement RIngs Direct are far superior. What do you think, Garry?Is this the quality one should expect from a high end retailer like Graff?
As to setting, I agree with Nicrez that some of the old settings are superb. I was fortunate to inherit a 3 stone ring from the early 20''s. The stones are not great color but the setting is a knock out.
However when I got my new ring, I thought the stone was the star and I selected a simple Tiffany style knife edge with no side stones.
It is really a matter of choice as to what you are looking for--the diamond or the setting. There is no shortage of gorgeous settings by Leon Mege, Daniel K, or WHiteflash custom to mention a few.
Click to expand...
I don''t "think" it, I know it.
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Wow, it''s worse than the other one....Hopefully the other stores they visit, along with the stones, will speak for themselves and they end up with something lovely.

*fingers crossed*
 
Jesus. I''m so disappointed in Graff now.
 
Pretty pitiful that they can''t even use only GIA Excellents in their rings. There is really no excuse for that. If the stones were ideal, then you''d have to decide whether overpaying by double was worth it for the brand name. But I wouldn''t buy these if the price was halved.
 
Date: 10/15/2007 6:56:16 PM
Author: Hest88
Jesus. I''m so disappointed in Graff now.
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One of the most informative threads on here ever.
Have you heard of Taffin? I hear he''s an exclusive designer, top of the line, 10K is the starting price for his services... and has an amazing reputation. Do a search. For their budget...and their desire for exclusivity... I''d do an ideal round in a Taffin. 25 K for diamond 10K for setting. Taffin name. Plus you get bragging rights on exclusivity. Food for thought.
 
Ok, every time I get on, there is more as to the two rings that really the HW or Graff is not a good pick for the $$, which is how this whole post started. So, they are back to really ground zero, but not really, i think they are smarter now.
They have again indicated, they still want to search for a stone and ring from either Tiffiny, or Cartier, or possibly Michael B at Michael Fina and a loose diamond of good quality.

They don''t want to get it from Graff or HW anymore, just based on the comments by the posters.
I think everyone has a great deal of knowledge, and good points.
But, they want to see if they can get both, a well cut stone, etc..
and a beautiful setting for the $ they are willing to spend.

For HW, yes, the setting is nice, but the center is not the best or even near best.
For Graff, yes, the stone is ok, and setting is ok, but again, not the best.
This is a lot of $ they are paying.

So, back to the drawing board this weekend. Tiffiny, Michael Fina, and Cartier.
The one at Cartier was also beautiful and very pretty.
That ones specs didn''t seem too bad.
 
Taffin is hard to find, are they in New York City?
 
Carolyn, it seems like several pages ago we covered this, but just in case, tell them to take these measurements with them:

table 54-57

depth 60-62

crown angle 34-35

pavilion angle 40.7-41.0

girdle thin, medium, or slightly thick


They can tell the salesperson that they want their diamond to fall within those specs, and they will have a good possibility of getting an ideal or excellent cut stone. They can easily rule out stones that are far off from these numbers like the ones at HW and Graff.
 
This is a fascinating thread. Im torn between thinking `Emperors New Clothes` re HW.......and also thinking that the budget is probably considered `entry` level for HW. Maybe they throw out crumbs for the few people who want to shop there on a `budget`.....even though in the rest of the civilized world that is a mighty fine budget!!!!

Its like high end bags....you can go in with a couple of thousand dollars and still come out feeling really poor. Then you go to your local shopping mall, and hey presto, you feel like a millionaire with that type of budget!!!!

Im guessing that HW is suited for people who are not into worrying about the cost (if you have to ask, you shouldnt be buying), and perhaps they are a bit behind in getting the best diamonds by standards here!!!!
 
Date: 10/15/2007 7:32:35 PM
Author: Carolynw
Taffin is hard to find, are they in New York City?
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I believe so. That''s where the person who was looking at him was located... and he met Taffin in person, so... I''m thinking yes. He''s by appointment only... so I''d just give them a call.
 
If they are making decisions based on the post here tell those people that (and I think I can speak for everyone on this, even those that would prefer I play golf?
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) if they don''t make an appointment at GOG we are not going to be forgiving them anytime soon.

Tell them that if they do make an appointment at GOG there is no way they come out of it the lesser. But if they don''t...well, somebody here might just have to make them a little...shorter...at least...
 
Date: 10/15/2007 7:44:11 PM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 10/15/2007 7:32:35 PM
Author: Carolynw
Taffin is hard to find, are they in New York City?
Click to expand...
I believe so. That''s where the person who was looking at him was located... and he met Taffin in person, so... I''m thinking yes. He''s by appointment only... so I''d just give them a call.
Click to expand...
I hate to show my commoness, but I sort of have to laugh about this. Taffin is SO exclusive that almost no one on this site had EVER heard of him when we were first introduced to the name.
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table 54-57


depth 60-62


crown angle 34-35


pavilion angle 40.7-41.0


girdle thin, medium, or slightly thick

Ok, here is the stupid part. We believed, that by going to these stores, with the $$ willing to spend between, 25,000.00 and 40,000.00, that at least they could get a 1.50 or greater size stone with a really nice setting. So, taking these specs to the places mentioned here, was I guess not done. Because we assumed, and it was dumb to assume, that the stones they were going to show would fall within these catagories. But, like the previous poster mentioned, for HW or even Graff, this is pennies to them, so we are not going to get what we need at those stores.

But, having said that, if we go somewhere else, and we get an excellent stone, then they wanted a really nice setting, and again they are probably stuck paying another 8,000 to 10,000 for those Michael B ones.

Its crazy. Because just because your wiling to spend more, doesn''t mean anything.
Originally they started with 25,000, then it got moved to 30,000.00, now it went to 40,000 with tax at HW.
And still nothing.

We will bring these specs with us to Cartier, Tiffiny, and Michael Fina this weekend, and see what anyone can come up with, and see what the price will be. Even the one at Cartier for 1.50 or so, was 34,000.00 without tax.
And that one wasn''t even falling within the guidelines mentioned above.
 
Oh, now I remember, I did give those specs to Cartier, and they brought in the rings noted above.
I remember what she said about those specs.
She said, those are very specific and finding a diamond with all those specifics is very difficult.
 
Ok, were making an appt. at GOG w/Jonathan.
Does anyone have his # off hand, and is he in
Manhattan?

I know, don''t fall out of your chairs
 
Date: 10/15/2007 8:14:25 PM
Author: Carolynw
Ok, were making an appt. at GOG w/Jonathan.
Does anyone have his # off hand, and is he in
Manhattan?

I know, don't fall out of your chairs
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http://204.17.89.15/ContactUs/ (Long Island)
 
Date: 10/15/2007 7:46:51 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Date: 10/15/2007 7:44:11 PM
Author: Gypsy


Date: 10/15/2007 7:32:35 PM
Author: Carolynw
Taffin is hard to find, are they in New York City?
Click to expand...
I believe so. That''s where the person who was looking at him was located... and he met Taffin in person, so... I''m thinking yes. He''s by appointment only... so I''d just give them a call.
Click to expand...
I hate to show my commoness, but I sort of have to laugh about this. Taffin is SO exclusive that almost no one on this site had EVER heard of him when we were first introduced to the name.
9.gif
Click to expand...
That''s why I suggested him.
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Date: 10/15/2007 8:14:25 PM
Author: Carolynw
Ok, were making an appt. at GOG w/Jonathan.
Does anyone have his # off hand, and is he in
Manhattan?

I know, don''t fall out of your chairs
Click to expand...
I think I''m hallucinating. Is that REAL??? HOLY SMOKES!! YAY!!!!!!!!!!
36.gif
 
We will call Gog tommorrow.

What about this ring though, seems to fall somewhat in there no?

Cartier Specs on GIA 13405235
Measurements 7.53-7.58 x 4.67 mm
Carat Weight: 1.62
Color Grade: H
Clarity Grade: VS1
Depth: 61.8%
Table: 57%
Girdle: Medium
Cutlet: None
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescense: None
 
Date: 10/15/2007 8:18:39 PM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 10/15/2007 8:14:25 PM
Author: Carolynw
Ok, were making an appt. at GOG w/Jonathan.
Does anyone have his # off hand, and is he in
Manhattan?

I know, don''t fall out of your chairs
Click to expand...
I think I''m hallucinating. Is that REAL??? HOLY SMOKES!! YAY!!!!!!!!!!
36.gif
Click to expand...
36.gif
36.gif
36.gif


(516) 798-5151 It is Long Island, I think. But make a specific appointment with Jonathan. They won''t be sorry. He has an a supply of in-house diamonds that obviously beats the big names. (That is where my 1.63 ct. stone came from, by the way.)
 
Date: 10/15/2007 8:14:25 PM
Author: Carolynw
Ok, were making an appt. at GOG w/Jonathan.

Does anyone have his # off hand, and is he in

Manhattan?


I know, don''t fall out of your chairs
Click to expand...
*thud*



yay!
36.gif
 
Date: 10/15/2007 8:23:42 PM
Author: Carolynw

We will call Gog tommorrow.

What about this ring though, seems to fall somewhat in there no?

Cartier Specs on GIA 13405235

Measurements 7.53-7.58 x 4.67 mm
Carat Weight: 1.62
Color Grade: H
Clarity Grade: VS1

Depth: 61.8%
Table: 57%
Girdle: Medium
Cutlet: None

Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescense: None
Click to expand...
Yes, that one was potentially good except we didn''t have the angles.
 
This thread has been very illuminating.It''s obvious that people with a pocket full of money get ripped off as much or more than those of us with less. You would think that money really could buy the best. Not true at all it seems.
It''s a shame that these places that are considered so "exclusive" can get by with selling inferior products simply by relying on a name.

I did have to pick myself up off the floor to type this...good for them going to GOG!!
 
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