Graff , Tiffiny or Harry Winston

[surfgirl]

Carolyn, I've read this thread and I'm sort of lost at this point. I get that they wanted to buy an ering from a high end luxury brand, that much I got. And you're helping them but they seem to be trying to get a specific stone but cant find it at these places, is that correct? The way I see it, there are three options at this point:

1.You can let them get their ring on their own accord (it seems as some have said, that they wanted that luxury brand purchasing experience - and there's nothing wrong with that - but maybe too much information from here may be ruining that experience for them?),

2. Send them to Leon and be done with it (my personal preference!). It doesn't get much more luxe than that in terms of fine quality and craftsmanship,

3. Take them to ERD and GOG and let the experts give them a serious 1:1 tutorial, if they want that experience.

Then, let them decide which of those above three options they prefer to pursue, and leave them to it. Mind you, I think it's incredibly generous of you to help them but IF they really really want to buy from a HW, Graff, etc, I say just let them. I'm sure even the rings they've seen are nice, aren't they? I've yet to see a dog ring in Graff! Ultimately, I think people here on PS put so much into the specs simply because they aren't seeing the stones en masse before they choose one, so specs are a way to "see" the stone, virtually speaking. In your case, they're able to see the stones in person so why not just let them choose one that speaks to them and forget all the percentages, angles, etc.? It's just my two cents based on a process that seems to be taking all the joy out of the experience for them...unless I'm misreading, in which case, nevermind!

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 10/16/2007 7:23:29 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Date: 10/16/2007 3:57:43 PM

Author: Carolynw

These general parameters:

table 54-57%

depth 60-62%

crown angle 34-35

pavilion angle 40.6 to 41

polish and symmetry should be at least very good to excellent


(It doesn't seem that off, the one from Cartier that they are going to look at on Saturday)

Carolyn, unfortunately it IS outside those guidelines. Here is what that stone gets on the HCA:


Light Return: Good

Fire: Fair

Scintillation: Fair

Spread or diameter for weight: Very Good

Total Visual Performance 4.9 - Good - Only if price is your main criterion



So in other words, this is not a great stone either. You want a score of 2 or less. I will agree with Nicrez that a stone does not have to be hearts and arrows to be beautiful. But I am sorry, there is no excuse for these jewelers not to AT LEAST use GIA Excellent or AGS0 (ideal) !! Would I pay $40,000 for a ring with a 'very good' cut 1.5 ct. stone??? No way!!!


The funny thing about the mystique issue is that it doesn't sound like they are getting the greatest service anyway. The sad thing is, I know people make an appointment with Jonathan and he spends two or three HOURS with the person, if needed. By the end of the appointment, they would know more than the sales people at those high end stores! But really, we've tried hard to help them understand that they could get BETTER QUALITY at HALF the price, and it sounds to me that they really must not care about quality or price. I hope you understand that those of us sticking with this topic just wanted to see them get the very best diamond and setting for the money, and that would be Good Old Gold and Leon Mege for the setting they are after.

Honestly guys, an HCA fair is not really that bad. I personally am not a fan of the terminology by the way Gary not when we hear people so often referring to those 1.0 HCA scores as representing such a small percentage of diamonds. It just doesn't seem logical to me to say "only 1% of the worlds diamonds are better than fair." (I am exaggerating it a little bit because you do have a Very good and Good rating, but they are pretty exclusive in their own right as well)

A more appropriate terminology in my mind woudl be saying that a 1.0 is "HOLY GOD-LIKE PERFECTION" and that that this stone is "excellent". Kind of like saying that an AGS "ideal" got a 1.0 and this stone is a GIA excellent If you understand what I am saying.

However, the actual real life differences between those two certainly exist, but it is NOT a night and day difference.

I understand from some of Gary's own post that it will probably look the same in many lighting environments, even to trained professionals, and certainly for the average consumer (or even me, a little bit above average, that being based on my own real world observations). In some lightings there will be some difference, but it is not going to be something that would cause one to pause and think that his/her diamond is "fair" or ugly. Not at all.

So I say if you are at this point, with a GIA excellent and very close to AGS 0 parameters, then accept that it is an EXCELLENT diamond, though perhaps not a HOLY GOD-LIKE diamond and start enjoying your purchasing experience. That way their memories and their love this special ring can be HOLY GOD-LIKE MEMORIES even if the diamond itself is ONLY excellent and gorgeous

at the same time you can still take note of why some institutions or people would not rate it as their top of the line cut, and still consider asking about diamonds that fall in those parameters. but, if you end up with one like this that is still excellent, you can learn ways in which to help maintain the beauty of their ring, such as:

One thing we have heard posted about so many times is that such diamonds will look magnificent and even HOLY GOD-LIKE when clean, but will show the effects of dirt more rapidly and will thus look worse after a week or so of wear. After you research and learn that to be true or not, well, you can still enjoy your purchase, just spend 200 dollars on a really nice Ultra Sonic! Then you get a magnificent diamond that is clean all the time and can finally start enjoying this purchase. I believe you are close enough to begin that much at least, they know enough now to get a truly excellent diamond (not one of those ones we were seeing earlier...wheww....) and it seems much more reasonable to pay 200 dollars on a nice US than ruin their shopping experience any further!

.

 

[Carolynw]

Workinghardforsmallreturns:

You are actually very funny, we were cracking up with what you wrote. I guess we are getting to picky

 

[Carolynw]

Surfgirl: They have been married for 10 years, her ring was stolen, so the insurance gave her some of the $ for it.
They want to spend more to get a nicer ring then they had when they got married 10 years ago and realize they are not going to do anymore upgrades in their lifetime. Therefore, it''s in their best interest to shop around and make sure that what they are purchasing is what they like, and is a fair price. Im not saying they need a deal, im just saying it would be nice to find a nice diamond (cut, etc.. wise) setting, for the price they are willing to pay. When they first got their ring 10 years ago, they did get taken and it was too late, in those days you couldn''t return, or not at this store. Also, when they bought her original ring it was very expensive considering today''s prices, over 20,000.00 and it was not a good diamond, so they are just trying to be a smart shopper. She mainly is wanting this, because she realizes that she can get better then what she had but wants to be careful and a good shopper. I don''t think there is anything wrong with being a smart shopper and trying to make sure that the diamond is of good quality. I''m not saying it has to be perfect according to the HCA score, but at least they need to view the GIA etc. and see if it is good. When they first bought, they never even viewed the GIA report, so this is all new to them. When I first asked what they were going to get, they had no idea to even view the GIA report or any specs on a diamond. So, everyone here is helping them and in the end they may by from an internet dealer, they are first going to see how or if they can succeed within their price range with the stores they have been visiting. I didn''t want you to think they are just getting married, etc.. because after 10 years it is different, it''s still about love, but really now she just wants it to be more beautiful to her than ever, but also represent her marriage. I think when you first get married, you don''t really dive into it like they are doing now, it goes much faster and these things are not important or as important to most.

 

[winternight]

I agree with the points made by Rainwood and Nicrez.

I would also just perhaps throw out the idea of signedpieces or a visit to the diamond district for a second hand stone by a name brand ring. I''m wondering if part of the issue here is a need to maximize what the ring that they''re getting for their $$ even if part of what they want is the namebrand ring? My fiance and I went with signedpieces for my Tiffany ring, while this isn''t for everyone I''m very happy.

 

[surfgirl]

Date: 10/17/2007 7:12:24 AM
Author: Carolynw
Surfgirl: They have been married for 10 years, her ring was stolen, so the insurance gave her some of the $ for it.

They want to spend more to get a nicer ring then they had when they got married 10 years ago and realize they are not going to do anymore upgrades in their lifetime. Therefore, it's in their best interest to shop around and make sure that what they are purchasing is what they like, and is a fair price. Im not saying they need a deal, im just saying it would be nice to find a nice diamond (cut, etc.. wise) setting, for the price they are willing to pay. When they first got their ring 10 years ago, they did get taken and it was too late, in those days you couldn't return, or not at this store. Also, when they bought her original ring it was very expensive considering today's prices, over 20,000.00 and it was not a good diamond, so they are just trying to be a smart shopper. She mainly is wanting this, because she realizes that she can get better then what she had but wants to be careful and a good shopper. I don't think there is anything wrong with being a smart shopper and trying to make sure that the diamond is of good quality. I'm not saying it has to be perfect according to the HCA score, but at least they need to view the GIA etc. and see if it is good. When they first bought, they never even viewed the GIA report, so this is all new to them. When I first asked what they were going to get, they had no idea to even view the GIA report or any specs on a diamond. So, everyone here is helping them and in the end they may by from an internet dealer, they are first going to see how or if they can succeed within their price range with the stores they have been visiting. I didn't want you to think they are just getting married, etc.. because after 10 years it is different, it's still about love, but really now she just wants it to be more beautiful to her than ever, but also represent her marriage. I think when you first get married, you don't really dive into it like they are doing now, it goes much faster and these things are not important or as important to most.

Hi Carolyn, thanks for that clarification...I just wasn't sure THEY wanted all this information but it seems that they do so good for them. That said, if they are finding they cant get what they want in the highest end shops, then what's the issue with going to ERD, GOG and/or Leon? Or are they planning on doing that? Honestly, I think they'll get their luxe experience from choosing a ring from Leon, and either the stone from him or one of the other two vendors mentioned. Just my two cents...Here's to them getting their HOLY GOD-LIKE experience!

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 10/16/2007 12:25:10 PM
Author: Nicrez
Although more people are buying luxury brands nowadays, it doesn't mean they are truly luxury items. It simply means the brand has extended their line to fit the budgeting luxury buyer. And if that product is inferior, then buy what is to your liking and stop chasing the brand name unless you are finding what you want IS what you are getting at the price you can afford.

Halle-freakin-lulah

Seems it's either/or ... superidealstonerazamataz OR superluxurybranded. Not both.

 

[elmo]

Date: 10/17/2007 7:12:24 AM
Author: Carolynw
they are just trying to be a smart [snip] careful and a good shopper

Ah, here''s why I think we''re on the seventh page on this. Buying a high-end name at retail is completely at odds with "smart shopping". Not that there''s anything wrong with that. Smart shopping a high-end name would be buying an estate or auction piece in perfect condition at a considerable discount that they love.

 

[decodelighted]

Interesting reading on Luxury Brands written by a former insider as seen on Huffington Post today.

Topical, no?


ETA: excerpt

"I realized that it's possible that real luxury is about the product, and not just the price tag connected to a thing. In the past, if you paid a premium for something you could be pretty sure you were buying quality. Today, it's very possible to pay a premium and get a very average product."

 

[Ellen]

Date: 10/17/2007 1:34:11 AM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards



Honestly guys, an HCA fair is not really that bad. I personally am not a fan of the terminology by the way Gary not when we hear people so often referring to those 1.0 HCA scores as representing such a small percentage of diamonds. It just doesn''t seem logical to me to say ''only 1% of the worlds diamonds are better than fair.'' (I am exaggerating it a little bit because you do have a Very good and Good rating, but they are pretty exclusive in their own right as well)

A more appropriate terminology in my mind woudl be saying that a 1.0 is ''HOLY GOD-LIKE PERFECTION'' and that that this stone is ''excellent''. Kind of like saying that an AGS ''ideal'' got a 1.0 and this stone is a GIA excellent If you understand what I am saying.

However, the actual real life differences between those two certainly exist, but it is NOT a night and day difference.

I understand from some of Gary''s own post that it will probably look the same in many lighting environments, even to trained professionals, and certainly for the average consumer (or even me, a little bit above average, that being based on my own real world observations). In some lightings there will be some difference, but it is not going to be something that would cause one to pause and think that his/her diamond is ''fair'' or ugly. Not at all.

So I say if you are at this point, with a GIA excellent and very close to AGS 0 parameters, then accept that it is an EXCELLENT diamond, though perhaps not a HOLY GOD-LIKE diamond and start enjoying your purchasing experience. That way their memories and their love this special ring can be HOLY GOD-LIKE MEMORIES even if the diamond itself is ONLY excellent and gorgeous

at the same time you can still take note of why some institutions or people would not rate it as their top of the line cut, and still consider asking about diamonds that fall in those parameters. but, if you end up with one like this that is still excellent, you can learn ways in which to help maintain the beauty of their ring, such as:

One thing we have heard posted about so many times is that such diamonds will look magnificent and even HOLY GOD-LIKE when clean, but will show the effects of dirt more rapidly and will thus look worse after a week or so of wear. After you research and learn that to be true or not, well, you can still enjoy your purchase, just spend 200 dollars on a really nice Ultra Sonic! Then you get a magnificent diamond that is clean all the time and can finally start enjoying this purchase. I believe you are close enough to begin that much at least, they know enough now to get a truly excellent diamond (not one of those ones we were seeing earlier...wheww....) and it seems much more reasonable to pay 200 dollars on a nice US than ruin their shopping experience any further!

.

Really? Why don''t we all buy them then?


As for saying the difference between this one and say, one of GOG''s cherry picked stones wouldn''t be night and day difference is again, assuming you know what this stone looks like. And you don''t. So that''s again, a rather misleading statement.

It''s a steep/deep. At 35/41 you would be hard pressed to find anyone on here (expert or otherwise) recommending someone buy that without some other critical info/pics, because we all know what that could mean. At 35/41.4, it could be leaking like a sieve.....I think it''s extremely irresponsible to suggest to someone, even with ALL your expertise, that this stone would be just fine.


There is no way on God''s green earth I''d buy this (for any price, much less what they''re asking) without looking at it with an IS, and I wouldn''t even dream of telling someone else to get it.

 

[gontama]

Have to agree with Ellen. May not be night and day if it were something like 35.4/41, but 35/41.4 ... even with the best symmetery ... hard to say OK for that kind of price ... I hate to see those who purchase the brand promise terribly get disappointed with the fact later when compared with something better ... We were almost about to do that kind of thing.
Work Harder For Something Rewarding ...

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 10/17/2007 5:57:23 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 10/17/2007 1:34:11 AM

Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards




Honestly guys, an HCA fair is not really that bad. I personally am not a fan of the terminology by the way Gary not when we hear people so often referring to those 1.0 HCA scores as representing such a small percentage of diamonds. It just doesn't seem logical to me to say 'only 1% of the worlds diamonds are better than fair.' (I am exaggerating it a little bit because you do have a Very good and Good rating, but they are pretty exclusive in their own right as well)


A more appropriate terminology in my mind woudl be saying that a 1.0 is 'HOLY GOD-LIKE PERFECTION' and that that this stone is 'excellent'. Kind of like saying that an AGS 'ideal' got a 1.0 and this stone is a GIA excellent If you understand what I am saying.


However, the actual real life differences between those two certainly exist, but it is NOT a night and day difference.


I understand from some of Gary's own post that it will probably look the same in many lighting environments, even to trained professionals, and certainly for the average consumer (or even me, a little bit above average, that being based on my own real world observations). In some lightings there will be some difference, but it is not going to be something that would cause one to pause and think that his/her diamond is 'fair' or ugly. Not at all.


So I say if you are at this point, with a GIA excellent and very close to AGS 0 parameters, then accept that it is an EXCELLENT diamond, though perhaps not a HOLY GOD-LIKE diamond and start enjoying your purchasing experience. That way their memories and their love this special ring can be HOLY GOD-LIKE MEMORIES even if the diamond itself is ONLY excellent and gorgeous


at the same time you can still take note of why some institutions or people would not rate it as their top of the line cut, and still consider asking about diamonds that fall in those parameters. but, if you end up with one like this that is still excellent, you can learn ways in which to help maintain the beauty of their ring, such as:


One thing we have heard posted about so many times is that such diamonds will look magnificent and even HOLY GOD-LIKE when clean, but will show the effects of dirt more rapidly and will thus look worse after a week or so of wear. After you research and learn that to be true or not, well, you can still enjoy your purchase, just spend 200 dollars on a really nice Ultra Sonic! Then you get a magnificent diamond that is clean all the time and can finally start enjoying this purchase. I believe you are close enough to begin that much at least, they know enough now to get a truly excellent diamond (not one of those ones we were seeing earlier...wheww....) and it seems much more reasonable to pay 200 dollars on a nice US than ruin their shopping experience any further!

.

Really? Why don't we all buy them then?



As for saying the difference between this one and say, one of GOG's cherry picked stones wouldn't be night and day difference is again, assuming you know what this stone looks like. And you don't. So that's again, a rather misleading statement.


It's a steep/deep. At 35/41 you would be hard pressed to find anyone on here (expert or otherwise) recommending someone buy that without some other critical info/pics, because we all know what that could mean.

they will be shopping in person, so that will be the additional info that they need


At 35/41.4, it could be leaking like a sieve.....

it has a GIA excellent and there for it should not be "leaking like a sieve". They are not exactly stupid down at GIA, and are certainly more capable than most of us on here.
So sure, they aren't AGS and let a few trickles of light pass through, but not a dang waterfall.

I think it's extremely irresponsible to suggest to someone, even with ALL your expertise, that this stone would be just fine.

I did not say that this stone is just fine. I said that the HCA rating is not a reason to disregard it. Consider color. Is a G or H color the same thing as a D? Hell no. Can you see a difference? In some lightings at some angles, and side by side, yes. Well, some people can anyway, not everyone. But would anybody ever sit there and say.... (GIA graded G)

"wow...this G color....

It is SOOOOO YELLLOW"

In the same way sure, there may be some difference between a good 1.0 and a good 4.6 HCA. But just like the difference between D and G, it exist, but it isn't going to be jumping in your face so everybody sees it. So yes, I believe strongly that an HCA 4.6 that has a modern GIA Excellent, is sold by Cartier and is approved by the eyes of some moderately informed shoppers is enough data to say with much conviction "relax, just enjoy your purchase, and we should do the same."



There is no way on God's green earth I'd buy this (for any price, much less what they're asking) without looking at it with an IS, and I wouldn't even dream of telling someone else to get it.

I never said to "get it". Jeez you people are getting jumpy, they have been given that information so many times and been told to go get some lessons from GOG so they can no more that it would have been ridiculous for me to emphasize again the things to look for. As I said, don't rule it out, the HCA is not the end of the world, though it does bear some consideration. So quit being so darn jumpy.

 

[TravelingGal]

OK WHFSR, Golf is obviously out. How about chess? Parcheesi?

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 10/18/2007 12:22:24 AM
Author: TravelingGal
OK WHFSR, Golf is obviously out. How about chess? Parcheesi?

I already did chess actually. Started the chess club back in high school, was pretty darn good. Got 35 consistent members too, it was pretty awesome. Just takes too long per game. but honestly, what is so wrong with me saying that a 4.6 is not a night and day difference, that they should not be so stressed out and we should all just let them enjoy there damn purchase? If they want to get more serious about cut, fantastic, if they want to waltz around in a beautiful store and hold a Cartier bag and go to a nice restraunt afterwards with what is truly a beautiful diamond in its own right, if not a D in the world of cut, (which we have given them enough information to do) then damn it, I just don't see why anybody is going to be pissed off at me for telling them that. There really is not THAT much difference ladies.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 10/18/2007 12:26:47 AM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards

Date: 10/18/2007 12:22:24 AM
Author: TravelingGal
OK WHFSR, Golf is obviously out. How about chess? Parcheesi?

I already did chess actually. Started the chess club back in high school, was pretty darn good. Got 35 consistent members too, it was pretty awesome. Just takes too long per game. but honestly, what is so wrong with me saying that a 4.6 is not a night and day difference, that they should not be so stressed out and we should all just let them enjoy there damn purchase? If they want to get more serious about cut, fantastic, if they want to waltz around in a beautiful store and hold a Cartier bag and go to a nice restraunt afterwards with what is truly a beautiful diamond in its own right, if not a D in the world of cut, (which we have given them enough information to do) then damn it, I just don''t see why anybody is going to be pissed off at me for telling them that. There really is not THAT much difference ladies.

I haven''t been following this thread all that closely because I am no expert. So I don''t know if your statements have been valid or what.

I think if anyone is "pissed" at you, it might be a cumulative pissed, and not an isolated pissed.

Maybe I don''t know what I am talking about. I''m pregnant and just thinking about multiple pisses in general.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 10/18/2007 12:30:08 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 10/18/2007 12:26:47 AM

Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards

Date: 10/18/2007 12:22:24 AM

Author: TravelingGal

OK WHFSR, Golf is obviously out. How about chess? Parcheesi?

I already did chess actually. Started the chess club back in high school, was pretty darn good. Got 35 consistent members too, it was pretty awesome. Just takes too long per game. but honestly, what is so wrong with me saying that a 4.6 is not a night and day difference, that they should not be so stressed out and we should all just let them enjoy there damn purchase? If they want to get more serious about cut, fantastic, if they want to waltz around in a beautiful store and hold a Cartier bag and go to a nice restraunt afterwards with what is truly a beautiful diamond in its own right, if not a D in the world of cut, (which we have given them enough information to do) then damn it, I just don't see why anybody is going to be pissed off at me for telling them that. There really is not THAT much difference ladies.

I haven't been following this thread all that closely because I am no expert. So I don't know if your statements have been valid or what.


I think if anyone is 'pissed' at you, it might be a cumulative pissed, and not an isolated pissed.


Maybe I don't know what I am talking about. I'm pregnant and just thinking about multiple pisses in general.

well, I won't go too much into it now though I have looked back at some of the origins with a particular person who this all started with on my own. I personally feel it started with some truly out of line comments towards me a while back, where it turned out a was right in the end...And then, god forbid, I made a few mistakes after that and it just escalated and escalated and started taking over threads, alot of which was my fault at that point. but whatever, you know, if they don't like my recommendation thats cool with me. I believe I have helped out a number of people, and I don't believe I have hurt anybody. At least I sure as heck don't remember "damaging" anybodies diamond purchase. So, you know, whatever....

I am sorry about this happening in your thread Carolyn, I still stand by my position though, as stated above, though as always I am no professional and if you find good evidence to the contrary def take it.

 

[surfgirl]

WHFSR, it''s not because of any specific comment. I think it''s more because you cannot seem to refrain from posting on just about every thread about everything. I mean, I dont post long winded posts about everything. I only know what I know and that''s what I post about. If someone wants an opinion and I''m interested enough in what they''re asking, I''ll give an opinion. But I dont quintuple quote each and every reply to my posts. I think that''s what''s getting tiresome to folks. That said, you can be quite funny at times. I just wish you would reserve your rapier like wit so we could savor it more in smaller batches!

You know what? I''m going to CHALLENGE YOU! I''ll bet you cant reply to only ONE post per day for 30 days. It means you''ll have to wait until the end of the day, sift through ALL the posts for that day and really decide which one you want to reply to, and only one reply for that day. I bet you cant do it! I dare ya!

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 10/18/2007 1:33:48 AM
Author: surfgirl
WHFSR, it''s not because of any specific comment. I think it''s more because you cannot seem to refrain from posting on just about every thread about everything. I mean, I dont post long winded posts about everything. I only know what I know and that''s what I post about. If someone wants an opinion and I''m interested enough in what they''re asking, I''ll give an opinion. But I dont quintuple quote each and every reply to my posts. I think that''s what''s getting tiresome to folks. That said, you can be quite funny at times. I just wish you would reserve your rapier like wit so we could savor it more in smaller batches!


You know what? I''m going to CHALLENGE YOU! I''ll bet you cant reply to only ONE post per day for 30 days. It means you''ll have to wait until the end of the day, sift through ALL the posts for that day and really decide which one you want to reply to, and only one reply for that day. I bet you cant do it! I dare ya!

I decline.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 10/18/2007 1:43:22 AM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards

Date: 10/18/2007 1:33:48 AM
Author: surfgirl
WHFSR, it''s not because of any specific comment. I think it''s more because you cannot seem to refrain from posting on just about every thread about everything. I mean, I dont post long winded posts about everything. I only know what I know and that''s what I post about. If someone wants an opinion and I''m interested enough in what they''re asking, I''ll give an opinion. But I dont quintuple quote each and every reply to my posts. I think that''s what''s getting tiresome to folks. That said, you can be quite funny at times. I just wish you would reserve your rapier like wit so we could savor it more in smaller batches!


You know what? I''m going to CHALLENGE YOU! I''ll bet you cant reply to only ONE post per day for 30 days. It means you''ll have to wait until the end of the day, sift through ALL the posts for that day and really decide which one you want to reply to, and only one reply for that day. I bet you cant do it! I dare ya!

I decline.

LOL, sorry...couldn''t help but laugh. I think that''s your shortest post to date!

 

[Carolynw]

Guys, everyone''s posts are helping, and they are still considering getting the ring from GOG. They are not stupid people, so all the comments have value and are truthful. The ring at Cartier they are considering and are going to look at it this weekend, and they somewhat agree, if they want to shop at these stores, they can''t be too picky and if it isn''t noticable to them, they are going to compare the two they were shown at Cartier, then they might buy.
So, don''t worry about the different viewpoints, it''s not steering them away from GOG or any other online vendor.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 10/18/2007 1:52:48 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 10/18/2007 1:43:22 AM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards

Date: 10/18/2007 1:33:48 AM
Author: surfgirl
WHFSR, it''s not because of any specific comment. I think it''s more because you cannot seem to refrain from posting on just about every thread about everything. I mean, I dont post long winded posts about everything. I only know what I know and that''s what I post about. If someone wants an opinion and I''m interested enough in what they''re asking, I''ll give an opinion. But I dont quintuple quote each and every reply to my posts. I think that''s what''s getting tiresome to folks. That said, you can be quite funny at times. I just wish you would reserve your rapier like wit so we could savor it more in smaller batches!


You know what? I''m going to CHALLENGE YOU! I''ll bet you cant reply to only ONE post per day for 30 days. It means you''ll have to wait until the end of the day, sift through ALL the posts for that day and really decide which one you want to reply to, and only one reply for that day. I bet you cant do it! I dare ya!

I decline.

LOL, sorry...couldn''t help but laugh. I think that''s your shortest post to date!

I think so too. (LOVED the challenge btw)

WH, I''m giving you the link to a GIAxxx stone, 34.5/41.4. Take a gander.

The stone in question here has even less desirable numbers for C&PA''s.......Also, please read the whole thread, it''s short.


https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/is-hca-really-valid.57875/


Yes, they will be seeing the stone in person, but I doubt (from the info so far) they have seen very many (possibly not even a handful, maybe not any?) truly excellent cut stones. Would they really know if this one was at this point? And they can''t see it in a million different light settings to know for sure. They are also going to look (at last post anyway) without going to GOG or ERD first.

You did indeed imply this stone might be just fine in your post WH. You said, and I quote, " So I say if you are at this point, with a GIA excellent and very close to AGS 0 parameters, then accept that it is an EXCELLENT diamond, though perhaps not a HOLY GOD-LIKE diamond and start enjoying your purchasing experience". Sounds like a "go ahead" to me.

And that''s my problem. I would never do that, because I haven''t seen it. And it''s very questionable.

See, I can relate to the buyers. I bought the old fashioned way the first time around. I picked with my (very untrained) eyes. I ended up being grossly overcharged for a so so diamond. It was rather dissapointing to be sure. I was determined not to do that that with my upgrade. And I succeeded. I have a diamond that is absolutely stunning. It STILL surprises me with new looks, a year and a half later. It makes me laugh, it makes me giddy. It makes me happy on a daily basis.

And that''s what I want for the buyer. I want her to be as thrilled with her diamond as I am with mine. And I have real doubts about whether the stone in question can do that.

So, I''m not being jumpy WH. I''m being prudent about what information is given here.


It would be prudent of you to do the same.

 

[Ellen]

p.s. Loved this gontama!

Work Harder For Something Rewarding ...

 

[Ellen]

Date: 10/18/2007 7:04:33 AM
Author: Carolynw
Guys, everyone''s posts are helping, and they are still considering getting the ring from GOG. They are not stupid people, so all the comments have value and are truthful. The ring at Cartier they are considering and are going to look at it this weekend, and they somewhat agree, if they want to shop at these stores, they can''t be too picky and if it isn''t noticable to them, they are going to compare the two they were shown at Cartier, then they might buy.
So, don''t worry about the different viewpoints, it''s not steering them away from GOG or any other online vendor.

Carolyn, it''s not just this thread that has raised issues. I''m sorry it has (again) taken over this thread a bit. Hopefully my lengthier post explains things.

 

[iheartscience]

Seriously, WHFSR: you are NOT an expert. You purchased one diamond for your fiance. I vaguely remember that you originally ordered another but then exchanged it? So that''s a grand total of two diamonds you''ve been in close contact with. You have no business advising Carolyn that a 4.6 HCA is not that bad. How do you know? You really don''t. Garry Holloway knows more about diamonds than you, so I''m going with him when his cut advisor says that a 4.6 is bad.

I do believe you have a fair amount of knowledge when it comes to RB diamonds. However, you constantly make wild assumptions and jump to ridiculous conclusions based on your limited knowledge. Again, nothing personal, but it concerns me when uniformed assumptions are posted as fact by you.

Carolyn: sorry for the threadjack. I do hope your SIL ends up with a well cut diamond she is happy with!

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 10/18/2007 9:48:31 AM
Author: thing2of2
Seriously, WHFSR: you are NOT an expert. You purchased one diamond for your fiance. I vaguely remember that you originally ordered another but then exchanged it? So that's a grand total of two diamonds you've been in close contact with. You have no business advising Carolyn that a 4.6 HCA is not that bad. How do you know? You really don't. Garry Holloway knows more about diamonds than you, so I'm going with him when his cut advisor says that a 4.6 is bad.


I do believe you have a fair amount of knowledge when it comes to RB diamonds. However, you constantly make wild assumptions and jump to ridiculous conclusions based on your limited knowledge. Again, nothing personal, but it concerns me when uniformed assumptions are posted as fact by you.


Carolyn: sorry for the threadjack. I do hope your SIL ends up with a well cut diamond she is happy with!

It is comments like these that have occurred in every one of those recent threads. I take a position or say that something might be a possiblity. I often times even refer to my support and evidence.

Then, a group of people get online and say "YOU ARE WRONG AND YOU HAVE NO SUPPORT OR EVIDENCE TO SAY THAT!" etc etc.

In fact, in most of those threads it turned out I was correct and I did in fact of the evidence to support it, and a few times I turned out to be wrong and my evidence was faulty or incomplete. But those who have been bashing me over the past few weeks have not once stopped and considered that I might have had some reason to say it. Not once have any of those people geniuinly asked me about my evidence or support and tried to work out the truth--instead they just start bashing my brain in and assume that they are right. And the vast majority of the time not a single person even offered up a shred of evidence to counter my positions either.

In this case I did have evidence to support my position. First and foremost was spending a couple of months pretty much doing nothing but diamond shopping all day long, looking in various lighting and comparing them to pavilion and crown angles, and with GIA excellents where available. Just because I have only owned 2 diamonds does not mean that is all of the diamonds I have observed.

Second, is from Gary and other experts own statements. Specifically this recent post that I read where Gary mentioned a direct comparison. It was this particular thread on the forefront of my mind when I posted about this:



Here, https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/hca-question-poor-choice.66624/

the diamond in question was a 41.8 and HCA 5.6 both of which are worse than the diamond in our immediate thread.

Surfn Girl asked:


Date: 8/3/2007 10:17:19 PM
Author: surfnrg


But would the layperson notice a significant difference in performance if I substituted my 5.9 for a

Thoughts?

Gary responded:

P: 8/3/2007 10:34:06 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

When the stone is dirty if another better stone was next to it it would be apparent in most lightings.

(sounds kind of like an untrained person observing the difference in D to G color?-->that line isn't Garry )

When clean, they would look as good in perhaps 1/2 the lightings and the better stone would out perform in some others.


AND another thread from which I drew a little bit of support for my statements, though not as much:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/a-diamond-debate-when-is-it-too-much-info.64694/

Steep deep H&A's with table ideal-scope partial leakage would be able to be weaned out by some consumers when clean and loose, but all consumers would see this difference when they had been worn for a day or 2 and were a bit dirty.

I had been going on memory, I should have said they might need to run it in the US a few times every week. my fault.







So,

am I necessarily right? NO

Did I have all of the information in the world on hand? No--but thats why we are a community, Ellen's link is the type of rebuke I like to see, rather than just insults and telling me I am an idiot.


Is this diamond necessarily really beautiful? NO

Did I make some random asinine comment with no support at all? NO, I used what I had read and coupled it with what I had observed. How can you accuse me of doing wrong for doing that?

Did I say that there would be some differences? Yes

Did I say that this diamond was a guaranteed winner? No, only that they should not rule it out and thatif they want to get a luxury item and just enjoy the luxury store purchasing experience a little more these parameters are close enough to a great stone that they should be allowed to do so without too much ruckus.

 

[whatmeworry]

In Woking Hard''s defense I will point out the informal diamond survey that Leonid and James Allen did. They compared 3 stones including a deeper stone(35/41.4, HCA 5, GIA Excellent). Some people actually preferred the deep stone or could not tell the difference.

http://diamondscope.pricescope.com/?src=Jim_Survey_01.wmv

 

[gontama]

Date: 10/18/2007 2:55:18 PM
Author: whatmeworry
In Woking Hard's defense I will point out the informal diamond survey that Leonid and James Allen did. They compared 3 stones including a deeper stone(35/41.4, HCA 5, GIA Excellent). Some people actually preferred the deep stone or could not tell the difference.

http://diamondscope.pricescope.com/?src=Jim_Survey_01.wmv

WHFSR - I apologize if the above video (have not seen) demonstrates that 35/41.4 looks ok or is even preferred by some. No I have not seen that combo in person, still made a comment based on the DiamCalc image (35/41.2). If you have seen this combo and are saying it is not like day and night, I believe you. My fault. At least I should not even have implied recommendation (not day and night) itself is so bad. Wanting an established brand is perfectly fine and if this stone is indeed nice enough (may be when set high?), it can be considered. You may be right. I also admit that you did have some good points in the past which got lost among so many posts however...

Havnig said that, I think it is still not likely the best possible choice for the price they have to pay, I would still recommend to keep looking something a little more conservative in Cartier, if possible.

 

[partgypsy]

Whoo.

Where''s Mara with some pie when you need her?

 

[Ellen]

WH, the link you gave where Gary commented is not the same situation as this. In that thread, the diamond had a 32CA, (that you didn''t to mention, we can''t go on one number here) which is compensating for the 41.8 PA. That will result in a different looking/performing diamond. If you notice in this thread, when Carolyn posted the stats for another diamond at 35.5/41.8, he posted "no comment". That''s because the CA isn''t complementing the PA, at all.



I understand you want to help people, so do I! But what I have tried to do from the time I started posting here, was as Surfgirl touched on, know my limits. I don''t know everything, far from it. Just search some threads on azimuth shift, yaw, etc. You won''t find my lil hiney in there.

I also try very hard to remember, that my words will live forever on here. Some people will possibly take them as gospel (though I don''t WANT anyone to, but it could happen). So I (and we all should) try very hard to speak to what I do know of, and either let the poster know it''s only my opinion when I don''t, or simply refer them to who may know the answer, or, just not respond.... It weighs on my concience what I tell people, because I don''t want to cause anyone grief over a purchase.


I''m sorry if I''ve lost my patience with you, I don''t like that. (I''ve raised 3 boys, I have a lot)

But I''ll be honest, I don''t recall another situation where a poster has been called on this much, and has not backed off, if only to think a bit before posting again.

So I hope you know I''m posting this for your benefit, it comes with good intentions. What you do with it remains to be seen.

Whatme, yes, at a few moments glance, some did pick steep/deep. But I wonder how many would choose them after living with them a while....Seems somewhat of a gamble, for such a high price.

 

[Ellen]

Carolyn, please start a new thread, maybe Part Two, after they shop this weekend.