Fidelity

[Dreamer_D]

It would depend on the circumstances, same as others have said.

Maybe it isn''t romantic, but I think that if you really want to be with someone for 50 or 60 years, then at *some point* in that time, one person is going to let the other person down in some way. Probably a big way. I think it is naive to think that two individuals can be together for that long and not weather some major bumps and heartache. So for me, if I am serious about a long term marriage with my husband, then I need to accept that he will do something that will hurt me at some point because he is only human, and humans make mistakes. And honestly, in the grand scheme of terrible things that happen in life and within relationships -- drug abuse, physcial abuse, alcoholism, mental illness, boredom and on and on and on... for me, cheating is *not* the worst thing that I would be willing to tolerate.

But don''t tell my husband that

 

[Upgradable]

Date: 10/7/2009 5:00:35 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
It would depend on the circumstances, same as others have said.

Maybe it isn''t romantic, but I think that if you really want to be with someone for 50 or 60 years, then at *some point* in that time, one person is going to let the other person down in some way. Probably a big way. I think it is naive to think that two individuals can be together for that long and not weather some major bumps and heartache. So for me, if I am serious about a long term marriage with my husband, then I need to accept that he will do something that will hurt me at some point because he is only human, and humans make mistakes. And honestly, in the grand scheme of terrible things that happen in life and within relationships -- drug abuse, physcial abuse, alcoholism, mental illness, boredom and on and on and on... for me, cheating is *not* the worst thing that I would be willing to tolerate.

But don''t tell my husband that

Dachsie- you''ve come the closest to summing up what I personally believe! I am an optomist, but I know that during a lifetime together we''re both going to manage to disappoint each other. It is how we choose to accept and address those disappointments that make a marriage. To live, and learn from it, and become stronger by working together through it is what both my husband and I expect of each other.

 

[zoebartlett]

I''d say it is a deal breaker, but I think it might depend on how I actually felt if faced with it.

 

[trillionaire]

I''m intrigued by the responses. (focusing on physical cheating)

I require a few things in a marriage... love, respect, and fidelity. They are non-negotiable. I can work with the ebbs and flows of love and some other things, but not fidelity. If I wanted to sleep around, I would stay single, and if he wants to, he should stay single. There is a reason that many people recite vows saying ''forsaking all others.'' I really don''t think that fidelity is a difficult lowbar requirement, and I am surprised by the number of people who feel that it is something that is negotiable. Of course, I also don''t plan on kids, so maybe that accounts for the difference. If my husband did not want his kids to grow up without a father, he would do well to demonstrate that by keeping his thing in his pants. IMO, fidelity is the simplest thing, and there is no way to even remotely justify physical cheating...

 

[y2kitty]

Date: 10/5/2009 4:05:03 PM
Author: radiantquest
It depends on what circumstances he had the sex in. If it was someone that I knew he lusted after I would be REALLY upset. If it was a one night stand, like he went out with the guys maybe had too much to drink and slept with someone I think I could forgive. That is not to say that I wouldn''t put him through hell for a while, but I think I would forgive him. If he had an affair and there were emotions involved. If he spent time and money with another woman I would not forgive him. I don''t know if I would divorce him because I don''t really feel like divorce is an option, but I don''t think I would ever forgive him.

This happened to my friend. He went out with his college football drinking buddies and woke up naked with some girl. Says he doesn''t remember what happened (I believe him, I don''t know his wife and he has no reason to lie to me). He asked his priest what to do, if he should tell his wife. The priest said no, that it could cause a lot of problems and he doesn''t even know what he did.

 

[Upgradable]

Date: 10/7/2009 9:43:35 PM
Author: trillionaire
I''m intrigued by the responses. (focusing on physical cheating)

I require a few things in a marriage... love, respect, and fidelity. They are non-negotiable. I can work with the ebbs and flows of love and some other things, but not fidelity. If I wanted to sleep around, I would stay single, and if he wants to, he should stay single. There is a reason that many people recite vows saying ''forsaking all others.'' I really don''t think that fidelity is a difficult lowbar requirement, and I am surprised by the number of people who feel that it is something that is negotiable. Of course, I also don''t plan on kids, so maybe that accounts for the difference. If my husband did not want his kids to grow up without a father, he would do well to demonstrate that by keeping his thing in his pants. IMO, fidelity is the simplest thing, and there is no way to even remotely justify physical cheating...

I respectfully disagree with almost your entire position. Love, respect, and fidelity.... yes! But I must define fidelity a little differently than most others. I see fidelity as "loyalty" which can include but is not limited to physical relations.

Let me give a hypothetical, and a challenge along with it. Try to see things from both sides of the fence. (I know my views on life have changed quite a bit over the last several decades of adulthood. But I''m pretty confidence that one of the few advantages of age is an increase in wisdom.)

Imagine a "happily" married couple who have been married for more than 10 years. The honeymoon phase is over. They know they can''t change the pesky annoying habits that persist in their spouse, but overall they''re quite content with their place in life. However, sex has stopped! One partner wants more, the other is just not interested. They''ve discussed this together, tried spicing things up, and things have just petered out. What if the unsatisfied spouse finds someone that can meet these needs without impacting any other facet of the "happy family"?

Okay, please resist the urge to rip this apart and really think about it. Now imagine the unsatisfied partner is the woman..... Does that color your opinion now?

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 10/7/2009 9:43:35 PM
Author: trillionaire
I'm intrigued by the responses. (focusing on physical cheating)


I require a few things in a marriage... love, respect, and fidelity. They are non-negotiable. I can work with the ebbs and flows of love and some other things, but not fidelity. If I wanted to sleep around, I would stay single, and if he wants to, he should stay single. There is a reason that many people recite vows saying 'forsaking all others.' I really don't think that fidelity is a difficult lowbar requirement, and I am surprised by the number of people who feel that it is something that is negotiable. Of course, I also don't plan on kids, so maybe that accounts for the difference. If my husband did not want his kids to grow up without a father, he would do well to demonstrate that by keeping his thing in his pants. IMO, fidelity is the simplest thing, and there is no way to even remotely justify physical cheating...

I absolutely 100% agree, Trill. IMO, fidelity is even more important when children are involved. I would never want to set an example that it is ok to let someone abuse you. He cheats - then I'm OUT! And you're right about it being the simplest thing. It is a choice - and you either make the right one, or the wrong one. There are no excuses in my book.

 

[Nomsdeplume]

Date: 10/7/2009 9:43:35 PM
Author: trillionaire
I''m intrigued by the responses. (focusing on physical cheating)

I require a few things in a marriage... love, respect, and fidelity. They are non-negotiable. I can work with the ebbs and flows of love and some other things, but not fidelity. If I wanted to sleep around, I would stay single, and if he wants to, he should stay single. There is a reason that many people recite vows saying ''forsaking all others.'' I really don''t think that fidelity is a difficult lowbar requirement, and I am surprised by the number of people who feel that it is something that is negotiable. Of course, I also don''t plan on kids, so maybe that accounts for the difference. If my husband did not want his kids to grow up without a father, he would do well to demonstrate that by keeping his thing in his pants. IMO, fidelity is the simplest thing, and there is no way to even remotely justify physical cheating...

I totally agree.
I think that if you can accept and justify cheating, that is for you to decide, but personally, I think cheating is unacceptable and shows a complete lack of respect. It shows that you would be willing to sacrifice a relationship for your own selfish reasons. It shows that you are not willing or able to put the other person first, to consider their needs before your own.
I don''t know about you, but I want to be married to someone I can trust 100% no matter what, who respects me completely and who loves me enough to always put me first, even if it takes sacrifice.
Once you accept this behaviour, it will just happen again.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[AdiS]

Date: 10/7/2009 10:25:45 PM
Author: Upgradable

Date: 10/7/2009 9:43:35 PM
Author: trillionaire
I''m intrigued by the responses. (focusing on physical cheating)

I require a few things in a marriage... love, respect, and fidelity. They are non-negotiable. I can work with the ebbs and flows of love and some other things, but not fidelity. If I wanted to sleep around, I would stay single, and if he wants to, he should stay single. There is a reason that many people recite vows saying ''forsaking all others.'' I really don''t think that fidelity is a difficult lowbar requirement, and I am surprised by the number of people who feel that it is something that is negotiable. Of course, I also don''t plan on kids, so maybe that accounts for the difference. If my husband did not want his kids to grow up without a father, he would do well to demonstrate that by keeping his thing in his pants. IMO, fidelity is the simplest thing, and there is no way to even remotely justify physical cheating...

I respectfully disagree with almost your entire position. Love, respect, and fidelity.... yes! But I must define fidelity a little differently than most others. I see fidelity as ''loyalty'' which can include but is not limited to physical relations.

Let me give a hypothetical, and a challenge along with it. Try to see things from both sides of the fence. (I know my views on life have changed quite a bit over the last several decades of adulthood. But I''m pretty confidence that one of the few advantages of age is an increase in wisdom.)

Imagine a ''happily'' married couple who have been married for more than 10 years. The honeymoon phase is over. They know they can''t change the pesky annoying habits that persist in their spouse, but overall they''re quite content with their place in life. However, sex has stopped! One partner wants more, the other is just not interested. They''ve discussed this together, tried spicing things up, and things have just petered out. What if the unsatisfied spouse finds someone that can meet these needs without impacting any other facet of the ''happy family''?

Okay, please resist the urge to rip this apart and really think about it. Now imagine the unsatisfied partner is the woman..... Does that color your opinion now?

Uppy, no offence, but I agree with Trill 100% on this one. Sure, your example may work for someone, people are different after all. But if Trill feels the same way as I do on this one, which is obviously the case considering her post, I don''t think her opinion would be coloured, and neither is mine.

Let''s say the couple has had the difficult conversation, it turned out one of them wants more sex and the other is not interested. They both agreed that one of the partners can go out searching for what is missing in their relationship. Now how many women would just stay home, cooking for example, thinking "It''s getting late and Homer is still not here. He''s probably just doing some random girl right now. Oh well, should I use ginger or parsley on this one?" Or the opposite situation, the guy is reading a book and his wife gets home, all smiles and afterglow. He''d just think to himself "Marge seems happy this evening. Obviously her new dude is good at something. Now, which chapter was I reading"? Is it possible for this not to affect any other facet of their happy life together? At all? Is it possible for the partner who agreed to this for the sake of his/her SO not to feel any frustration, disappointment, sadness, low confidence even to the extent when they think there''s something wrong with them? Not to worry every minute of the day that maybe this someone who meets their SO''s needs without any strings attached may suddenly become more important than they are?

And is it possible for the partner who''s having fun outside of the relationship not to feel any guilt at all, when they come home straight out of someone else''s bed and give their SO a kiss, even though they have their permission?

Again, no offence, as I''m sure there are cases where this actually works and I was never one to judge other people''s life choices. But as someone who values fidelity as much as I do (and apparently Trill does) I''d say the situation you described certainly does made me think, really think - that sometimes compromises in the name of love aiming to make the other half of the couple happy, can only make both partners miserable.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I'm assuming for the sake of this post, that we're defining fidelity as an agreement of physical monogamy. I don't think it's "cheating" if it's agreed upon by both partners. Cheating would imply doing something against the rules, so if your rules involve certain circumstances where it's ok to sleep with other people (and there is a % of the population that have engaged in activities like threesomes or partner-swapping or open relationships), then it's probably not cheating since you aren't breaking loyalty or trust.

I've personally known couples who have had healthy extramarital trysts or have non-traditional arrangements, and I've known couples that have been broken apart by cheating. I think it's just important that couples are on the same page, not so much what the page is. I think if you expect and agree on physical monogamy as a pillar of your marriage, then cheating would be a dealbreaker.

 

[Shoopy]

Date: 10/7/2009 5:00:35 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
It would depend on the circumstances, same as others have said.

Maybe it isn''t romantic, but I think that if you really want to be with someone for 50 or 60 years, then at *some point* in that time, one person is going to let the other person down in some way. Probably a big way. I think it is naive to think that two individuals can be together for that long and not weather some major bumps and heartache. So for me, if I am serious about a long term marriage with my husband, then I need to accept that he will do something that will hurt me at some point because he is only human, and humans make mistakes. And honestly, in the grand scheme of terrible things that happen in life and within relationships -- drug abuse, physcial abuse, alcoholism, mental illness, boredom and on and on and on... for me, cheating is *not* the worst thing that I would be willing to tolerate.

But don''t tell my husband that

Yup

I already mentioned my grandparents. Grandfather cheated (big time...had a "love" child) and they worked it out. They have been together for 60 years and their love is incrediblyl strong. Doesn''t meant that you should forgive a cheating partner every time but you don''t have those long marriages without their being some sort of challenge in between.

And those couples that have been together for 50+ years that say nothing bad has ever happened between them are either lying or they can''t remember

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Uppy, just checking in to see how your friend is coping...

 

[Upgradable]

Thanks, T. She''s doing a bangup job ignoring it and moving at a 100mph. She says it is such a relief to not to feel she has to "hash it out" when we talk. I told her that I''d be here in whatever capacity she needs me. We''re set to go out on Friday. A glass or two of wine may loosen the stopper.....

 

[butterflyblue]

NO way could I ever forgive that. I love my husband to pieces but losing that trust, always thinking about the affair, trying to move on with your relationship when you can''t ever ''forget" about what happened That gut wrenching pain that would never go away-even with counseling.

When you can cheat on a spouse it goes deeper than just being a horn dog...

 

[princesss]

Date: 10/8/2009 12:22:52 PM
Author: Upgradable
Thanks, T. She''s doing a bangup job ignoring it and moving at a 100mph. She says it is such a relief to not to feel she has to ''hash it out'' when we talk. I told her that I''d be here in whatever capacity she needs me. We''re set to go out on Friday. A glass or two of wine may loosen the stopper.....

Sounds like you''re being just the kind of friend she needs, Uppy.

 

[packrat]

You''re a good friend Uppy!

Soo..I''ve been thinking about this, and about "for instances" like, one partner doesn''t want it, the other does.

I realize some people are just wired that way. I would think tho, that they would be wired that way from the start, and not be shagging like minks for years and then one day, meh, I just am not the type to "want" it. Maybe that person was just doing it to please the partner for those years. I dunno. Anyway. As I was saying..I would be the partner who is saying "meh"..and I have been for years. Since London was born. I was tired and overweight and felt so incredibly UNsexy I didn''t want any part of it. Then Trapper came. Still tired. More overweight. I know why I don''t want it-I''m unhappy w/myself. I love my husband and am working to change my perception of how I feel about myself-trying to eat better and exercise. (well, let''s ignore the starbucks I''m drinking right now) JD will mention "Remember how it used to be?" and yes, I do..I remember how it used to be when I used to be able to turn heads and felt so good about myself. Do I think that he should go out and find a woman, even just to satisfy his needs since I don''t? No. I would expect that when he said "in good times and in bad" during our vows he meant it and would be enough of a man to stand by me and encourage me during this "bad time". I would think that any man, if his wife is saying "meh" would encourage talk and support, to find out why she''s saying that. I would also assume that any wife, should her husband be the one saying "meh" would do the same thing. I see cheating as the easy way out, personally. Rather than standing up and pulling on the big kid pants and talking to the spouse like an adult, throwing your hands up in the air and saying "well, whatever, I''ll find someone who will" is chicken.

By the same token...I would think that the "meh" spouse would be adult enough and love their spouse enough to be proactive and take control of the situation and DO something about it. Not just sit in a pool of complacency and expect the other spouse to resign themselves to no sex for the rest of their life just b/c you don''t want to. It could be a medical condition. It could be something as simple as wanting the other spouse to chip in a little more w/chores or whatever. But if neither spouse is willing to open their mouth and talk about it and work at it..bock bock bock. (that''s my chicken noise)

 

[Upgradable]

Packy, have I ever told you how much l like you????

You may be making chicken noises, but you''re a Good Egg!

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 10/7/2009 4:51:04 PM
Author: FrekeChild
Depends on the context.

I''ve been the ''cheater'' (high school, just kissing, I couldn''t get myself out of the relationship, he was super controlling and emotionally abusive, not to mention an alcoholic--bad situation) before, and while it was not fun for either of us, it taught me a lot about myself, and my level of tolerance.

It just depends...

OK, along this same train of thought . . .

I voted in Uppy''s poll, and my vote was "You better believe it! I''m outta there." Having said that, I think the other side of the story needs to be told.

DH and I started our relationship about three months before I left XH, and about eight months before the divorce was final. So, yes, I cheated on XH. And DH was married to his XW at the time, so he cheated on her too. Does that make us terrible, horrible people? No, it does not. And let me tell you why:

My XH was very abusive and controlling, and he had a drug problem. I had been trying to leave the relationship for quite some time, but he threatened me every time I tried to leave. I was so miserable in that "marriage," and I was so desperate to leave, but I just couldn''t see any safe way to get out. So, I bent over backwards trying to make it work. Of course, as we all know, it takes two to make a marriage work, and I was the only one who was trying. XH didn''t want to put in any of the effort to make our marriage succeed, but he didn''t want to let me go either.

DH and I had been friends for quite a while (ironically enough, XH is the one who introduced us), and we did see each other frequently since we had so many friends in common. We had always gotten along very well, and we started talking to each other about the issues we were having with our respective spouses. (His XW was very neglectful and indifferent to him . . . she had basically "checked out" of the marriage. Most of the time, she literally didn''t know or care if he was even in the house. So, obviously, he was pretty miserable too.)

Neither of us ever meant to cheat on our spouses. It''s not like we just woke up one day and said, "Gee, I''m bored . . . I think I''ll start an affair today!" It''s really not that simple. I can guarantee you that DH and I would NEVER have done what we did if things were OK at home, or if our spouses were even trying to improve the situation at home. XH and I went to marriage counseling as our relationship was circling the drain, and our counselor told us something that has really stuck with me: "Happily married people don''t have affairs."

As I mentioned above, when I voted in Uppy''s poll, I said that cheating is definitely a deal-breaker for me. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite, or maybe not . . . I don''t know. But honestly, while I was cheating on XH, I think I was hoping that he would choose to divorce me when he found out (because I know that''s what I would have done if I had been in his shoes).

Please don''t get me wrong ~ I''m not at all proud of what DH and I did. If I had it to do over again, there are many things that I would have done differently, hindsight being 20/20. However, I can''t honestly say that I regret it. I am married to the most wonderful person on the planet, we are completely crazy about each other even after more than six years, and I am unbelievably happy. I can''t say with any certainty what my life would have been like if I hadn''t cheated on XH. But, if I had to guess, I would say that I''d probably still be stuck in that miserable excuse for a marriage. Or worse.

Please don''t flame me . . . this wasn''t easy for me to type, but I really felt like another perspective would be helpful here.

 

[risingsun]

I know a couple who agreed to an open marriage as long as the husband or wife was present during the sexual encounter. This means having a three- or foursome. The situation did not happen for quite some time in their marriage. The first time it did occur, one of the partners was so upset that the two are now in the process of getting a divorce. Sometimes you don''t know how you will respond until you are in the situation.

My XH told me that he and his wife had an open relationship. I was very young and naive. I even had dinner with my XH, his wife and her boyfriend at their home. I basicallly received the "go ahead" from her. What no one counted on was that her husband would fall in love with me. It was a long, difficult journey for all concerned--including counseling for my ex and his wife. I left the area completely and started a new life. My ex could not make it work with his wife and contacted me. I was very wary of him. It took a long time to repair our relationship. He flew to my parents'' home and asked their permission to marry me. After his divorce, we were married and remained so for over 10 years. It''s easy to say that your rules include not falling in love with your sexual partner...it''s not something you can guaranty.

 

[canuk-gal]

Date: 10/8/2009 1:56:20 PM
Author: risingsun
I know a couple who agreed to an open marriage as long as the husband or wife was present during the sexual encounter. This means having a three- or foursome. The situation did not happen for quite some time in their marriage. The first time it did occur, one of the partners was so upset that the two are now in the process of getting a divorce. Sometimes you don''t know how you will respond until you are in the situation.

My XH told me that he and his wife had an open relationship. I was very young and naive. I even had dinner with my XH, his wife and her boyfriend at their home. I basicallly received the ''go ahead'' from her. What no one counted on was that her husband would fall in love with me. It was a long, difficult journey for all concerned--including counseling for my ex and his wife. I left the area completely and started a new life. My ex could not make it work with his wife and contacted me. I was very wary of him. It took a long time to repair our relationship. He flew to my parents'' home and asked their permission to marry me. After his divorce, we were married and remained so for over 10 years. It''s easy to say that your rules include not falling in love with your sexual partner...it''s not something you can guaranty.

HI:

Interesting RS. It has always been my understanding that people seek relationships but the investment in the same for both parties is not necessarily equal. Invairably one person wants/desires "more". Goes to show that you never know how you''ll respond unitl you are in the situation. That is why I never say never.

cheers--Sharon

 

[Italiahaircolor]

For anyone really interested in this subject there is a wonderful collection of essays written about this subject called The Other Woman

It''s a very interesting read because its a gathering of essays from "the other woman" and wives and children who have been in this situation. It''s a easy read.

For me personally, it''s a deal breaker. Many years ago I was in a relationship and found myself in the position of this woman. My fiance at the time was seeing another woman, actually it was probably several other women over the course of a long while. I found this out by "snooping" through his e-mail. My fears were confirmed with naked pictures, graphic e-mails both to and from him. It was heartbreaking, but I loved him and I wanted it work. However--without going through the ins and outs of our rehabilitation--we eventually seperated.

In the end, I knew that I didn''t have the mental capacity to move past what happened to us. I just didn''t have the kind of mind that could forget what he did and I know that faced with the situation again I still wouldn''t be able to push past myself. This woman (the one I knew of for sure) moved into my head, planted her seed, and grew and grew. She changed the way I saw myself, not to mention the way I viewed him and our life together. Her exsistance distroyed my life.

I think that having an affair is possibly one of the worst crimes you could commit against another person. It''s such an attack against someone''s security, emotions, and well being.

 

[TooPatient]

Date: 10/8/2009 12:51:21 PM
Author: packrat
You''re a good friend Uppy!

Soo..I''ve been thinking about this, and about ''for instances'' like, one partner doesn''t want it, the other does.

I realize some people are just wired that way. I would think tho, that they would be wired that way from the start, and not be shagging like minks for years and then one day, meh, I just am not the type to ''want'' it. Maybe that person was just doing it to please the partner for those years. I dunno. Anyway. As I was saying..I would be the partner who is saying ''meh''..and I have been for years. Since London was born. I was tired and overweight and felt so incredibly UNsexy I didn''t want any part of it. Then Trapper came. Still tired. More overweight. I know why I don''t want it-I''m unhappy w/myself. I love my husband and am working to change my perception of how I feel about myself-trying to eat better and exercise. (well, let''s ignore the starbucks I''m drinking right now) JD will mention ''Remember how it used to be?'' and yes, I do..I remember how it used to be when I used to be able to turn heads and felt so good about myself. Do I think that he should go out and find a woman, even just to satisfy his needs since I don''t? No. I would expect that when he said ''in good times and in bad'' during our vows he meant it and would be enough of a man to stand by me and encourage me during this ''bad time''. I would think that any man, if his wife is saying ''meh'' would encourage talk and support, to find out why she''s saying that. I would also assume that any wife, should her husband be the one saying ''meh'' would do the same thing. I see cheating as the easy way out, personally. Rather than standing up and pulling on the big kid pants and talking to the spouse like an adult, throwing your hands up in the air and saying ''well, whatever, I''ll find someone who will'' is chicken.

By the same token...I would think that the ''meh'' spouse would be adult enough and love their spouse enough to be proactive and take control of the situation and DO something about it. Not just sit in a pool of complacency and expect the other spouse to resign themselves to no sex for the rest of their life just b/c you don''t want to. It could be a medical condition. It could be something as simple as wanting the other spouse to chip in a little more w/chores or whatever. But if neither spouse is willing to open their mouth and talk about it and work at it..bock bock bock. (that''s my chicken noise)

Very right.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Uppy, people accept things at different speeds. It will hit her but time will only tell when. It cannot be forced. People are very good at lying to themselves and justifying other''s behaviors to support what they want their ideal lives to be. She will have to mourn the loss of her ideal marriage if she leaves him or not. I know you will be an awesome friend for her during the rough road she has in front of her. Just have fun on Friday. Distractions aren''t always a bad thing

 

[TooPatient]

Date: 10/7/2009 9:50:59 PM
Author: y2kitty

Date: 10/5/2009 4:05:03 PM
Author: radiantquest
It depends on what circumstances he had the sex in. If it was someone that I knew he lusted after I would be REALLY upset. If it was a one night stand, like he went out with the guys maybe had too much to drink and slept with someone I think I could forgive. That is not to say that I wouldn''t put him through hell for a while, but I think I would forgive him. If he had an affair and there were emotions involved. If he spent time and money with another woman I would not forgive him. I don''t know if I would divorce him because I don''t really feel like divorce is an option, but I don''t think I would ever forgive him.

This happened to my friend. He went out with his college football drinking buddies and woke up naked with some girl. Says he doesn''t remember what happened (I believe him, I don''t know his wife and he has no reason to lie to me). He asked his priest what to do, if he should tell his wife. The priest said no, that it could cause a lot of problems and he doesn''t even know what he did.

Time for a new priest.

Regardless of what he did or didn''t do, his wife deserves to know. Just waking up in the same bed as a woman even fully clothed is something she should know about.

Even IF "nothing happened", he still made a mistake. He should trust his wife enough to tell her honestly what happened. Clearly she trust him. She did trust him to go drinking with his drinking buddies.


Beyond that, he may have been exposed to an STD. The wife deserves to know so she can make a decision to see a doctor and get checked if she needs to.

 

[T L]

Date: 10/8/2009 2:17:17 PM
Author: Italiahaircolor
For anyone really interested in this subject there is a wonderful collection of essays written about this subject called The Other Woman

It''s a very interesting read because its a gathering of essays from ''the other woman'' and wives and children who have been in this situation. It''s a easy read.

For me personally, it''s a deal breaker. Many years ago I was in a relationship and found myself in the position of this woman. My fiance at the time was seeing another woman, actually it was probably several other women over the course of a long while. I found this out by ''snooping'' through his e-mail. My fears were confirmed with naked pictures, graphic e-mails both to and from him. It was heartbreaking, but I loved him and I wanted it work. However--without going through the ins and outs of our rehabilitation--we eventually seperated.

In the end, I knew that I didn''t have the mental capacity to move past what happened to us. I just didn''t have the kind of mind that could forget what he did and I know that faced with the situation again I still wouldn''t be able to push past myself. This woman (the one I knew of for sure) moved into my head, planted her seed, and grew and grew. She changed the way I saw myself, not to mention the way I viewed him and our life together. Her exsistance distroyed my life.

I think that having an affair is possibly one of the worst crimes you could commit against another person. It''s such an attack against someone''s security, emotions, and well being.

Very well said, and I have nothing but great sympathy for people that have cheating spouses in their lives. My heart goes out to them, since it must be like getting punched in the face, but a milion times worse.

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 10/7/2009 10:25:45 PM
Author: Upgradable

Date: 10/7/2009 9:43:35 PM
Author: trillionaire
I''m intrigued by the responses. (focusing on physical cheating)

I require a few things in a marriage... love, respect, and fidelity. They are non-negotiable. I can work with the ebbs and flows of love and some other things, but not fidelity. If I wanted to sleep around, I would stay single, and if he wants to, he should stay single. There is a reason that many people recite vows saying ''forsaking all others.'' I really don''t think that fidelity is a difficult lowbar requirement, and I am surprised by the number of people who feel that it is something that is negotiable. Of course, I also don''t plan on kids, so maybe that accounts for the difference. If my husband did not want his kids to grow up without a father, he would do well to demonstrate that by keeping his thing in his pants. IMO, fidelity is the simplest thing, and there is no way to even remotely justify physical cheating...

I respectfully disagree with almost your entire position. Love, respect, and fidelity.... yes! But I must define fidelity a little differently than most others. I see fidelity as ''loyalty'' which can include but is not limited to physical relations.

Let me give a hypothetical, and a challenge along with it. Try to see things from both sides of the fence. (I know my views on life have changed quite a bit over the last several decades of adulthood. But I''m pretty confidence that one of the few advantages of age is an increase in wisdom.)

Imagine a ''happily'' married couple who have been married for more than 10 years. The honeymoon phase is over. They know they can''t change the pesky annoying habits that persist in their spouse, but overall they''re quite content with their place in life. However, sex has stopped! One partner wants more, the other is just not interested. They''ve discussed this together, tried spicing things up, and things have just petered out. What if the unsatisfied spouse finds someone that can meet these needs without impacting any other facet of the ''happy family''?

Okay, please resist the urge to rip this apart and really think about it. Now imagine the unsatisfied partner is the woman..... Does that color your opinion now?

IMO, marriage isn''t just about ''you''. You have to be willing to make sacrifices, and also to put the other person first. That means that partners that don''t want to have sex might need to have sex when they don''t feel like it, if they know it''s important to their partner, and partners that love sex might have to settle for a little less. Sex IS important in a relationship, but it''s not everything. FI and I have discussed this, and if something happened to him, and we couldn''t have ''sex'', that doesn''t mean I am going to leave him, nor does it give me license to find it elsewhere. (if you both agree that having extra-marital sex is okay, then that is a different issue, that is not about fidelity/infidelity anymore... that''s polyamory?) I can''t imagine how happily married a couple could be if one person was saying, ''hey, I need some help in this area'' and the other person just said, ''sorry, I don''t feel up to helping you''. At that point the problem isn''t sex, it''s about lack of consideration for your partner. There are legitimate things that cause lack of libido in men and women, and other relationship issues that cause people to withdraw from sexual activity, and most psychologists will tell you that lack of interest in sex with your partner is usually symptomatic of a larger issue, not sex in and of itself...

I''m not married (yet), but I am sure that sex ebbs and flows in relationships, and I wouldn''t want to be with anyone who felt that they could wander off during the dry spells, then stick around for the good times.

 

[TooPatient]

If I was not satisfied with the amount of activity in our relationship, I would not go looking for someone else. Even if I had B''s support in doing so.

Man or woman, if they aren''t satisfied they need to work together to find what works for them. If he/she needs to lose weight to feel better about their body, if he/she needs to take a nap in the afternoons to be more rested, if he/she needs to see a doctor for depression, etc.


How can you be certain that if he/she found a partner to satisfy their sexual needs that it would stay at that? What keeps that sex only relationship from becoming a friendship or more? When it does turn into more, what is to keep him/her from leaving the current relationship that is only partially fulfilling and going to the new one that fulfills all their needs?

Wouldn''t it hurt to see your partner come home happy and fulfilled and know that YOU can''t give them that?

I don''t see how an arrangement like that could possibly NOT hurt the relationship. It may fester for some time, but it would certainly become an issue.

 

[Callisto]

Date: 10/5/2009 3:15:30 PM
Author: fiery
I know I''m probably in the minority here but for me it really depends on the circumstances surrounding it.

I agree. I know I''d like to say "total deal breaker I''d be out of there faster than you can say cheater" but I also know how in love I am with my bf and idk if I could throw away our years of relationship that fast.

I''ve also always said that while cheating isn''t an automatic deal breaker, having an affiar is. I know that might sound silly at first but I could fathom forgiving a one time mistake but an affair is thought out and deliberate. That I could not forgive. Just my 2 cents.

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 10/8/2009 2:43:39 PM
Author: TooPatient

Date: 10/7/2009 9:50:59 PM
Author: y2kitty

Date: 10/5/2009 4:05:03 PM
Author: radiantquest
It depends on what circumstances he had the sex in. If it was someone that I knew he lusted after I would be REALLY upset. If it was a one night stand, like he went out with the guys maybe had too much to drink and slept with someone I think I could forgive. That is not to say that I wouldn''t put him through hell for a while, but I think I would forgive him. If he had an affair and there were emotions involved. If he spent time and money with another woman I would not forgive him. I don''t know if I would divorce him because I don''t really feel like divorce is an option, but I don''t think I would ever forgive him.

This happened to my friend. He went out with his college football drinking buddies and woke up naked with some girl. Says he doesn''t remember what happened (I believe him, I don''t know his wife and he has no reason to lie to me). He asked his priest what to do, if he should tell his wife. The priest said no, that it could cause a lot of problems and he doesn''t even know what he did.

Time for a new priest.

Regardless of what he did or didn''t do, his wife deserves to know. Just waking up in the same bed as a woman even fully clothed is something she should know about.

Even IF ''nothing happened'', he still made a mistake. He should trust his wife enough to tell her honestly what happened. Clearly she trust him. She did trust him to go drinking with his drinking buddies.


Beyond that, he may have been exposed to an STD. The wife deserves to know so she can make a decision to see a doctor and get checked if she needs to.

+1...

but I will say that it is very common advice to not come clean about infidelity if you don''t plan to do it again, because it only clears your conscience (considered a selfish need), but destroys the trust and self worth of your partner. It is VERY common advice, even though I do not agree. I feel that all parties should have all the information so that they can both make the right decisions for themselves.

I had a friend in college that propositioned me while I was rooming with his girlfriend. He sent me an email and a poem, and it was very personal and explicit. I printed them out and gave them to her, because I felt that she should know and be able to make her own decision about it. The stayed together and worked things out. Nothing happened, ever, between me and the guy, so it was more emotional cheating than anything else, but I feel better because they both were on the same page about the decision. However, because they stayed together, it probably would have hurt a lot less to have never known. It must have been nice for him, however, to know that he was loved unconditionally... flaws and all.

 

[T L]

Date: 10/8/2009 2:48:44 PM
Author: trillionaire

I'm not married (yet), but I am sure that sex ebbs and flows in relationships, and I wouldn't want to be with anyone who felt that they could wander off during the dry spells, then stick around for the good times.

I agree. The fact is that love and sex are not the same thing. You can still feel loved without having sex all the time, and you can feel unloved if you have sex 20 times a day. For me, love is the most important and consistant of the two things. Sex is just a way of expressing love, but it's not the only way to express it.