Fidelity

[risingsun]

Date: 10/8/2009 2:03:53 PM
Author: canuk-gal

Date: 10/8/2009 1:56:20 PM
Author: risingsun
I know a couple who agreed to an open marriage as long as the husband or wife was present during the sexual encounter. This means having a three- or foursome. The situation did not happen for quite some time in their marriage. The first time it did occur, one of the partners was so upset that the two are now in the process of getting a divorce. Sometimes you don't know how you will respond until you are in the situation.

My XH told me that he and his wife had an open relationship. I was very young and naive. I even had dinner with my XH, his wife and her boyfriend at their home. I basicallly received the 'go ahead' from her. What no one counted on was that her husband would fall in love with me. It was a long, difficult journey for all concerned--including counseling for my ex and his wife. I left the area completely and started a new life. My ex could not make it work with his wife and contacted me. I was very wary of him. It took a long time to repair our relationship. He flew to my parents' home and asked their permission to marry me. After his divorce, we were married and remained so for over 10 years. It's easy to say that your rules include not falling in love with your sexual partner...it's not something you can guaranty.

HI:

Interesting RS. It has always been my understanding that people seek relationships but the investment in the same for both parties is not necessarily equal. Invairably one person wants/desires 'more'. Goes to show that you never know how you'll respond unitl you are in the situation. That is why I never say never.

cheers--Sharon

How much of a surprise is it that my XH cheated on me with the woman who became his third wife. He then repeated the pattern with wife #4

We have three sets of children among all of the wives. Fortunately, all of the children love each and the wives--most of us--have learned to get along quite well. I as #2 of the bunch. I have been married to my DH for almost 14 years. This is a second marriage for each of us. It's been monogamous since our early dating years. For us, this is the only way to be married.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 10/8/2009 1:25:15 PM
Author: Irishgrrrl

Date: 10/7/2009 4:51:04 PM
Author: FrekeChild
Depends on the context.

I''ve been the ''cheater'' (high school, just kissing, I couldn''t get myself out of the relationship, he was super controlling and emotionally abusive, not to mention an alcoholic--bad situation) before, and while it was not fun for either of us, it taught me a lot about myself, and my level of tolerance.

It just depends...

OK, along this same train of thought . . .

I voted in Uppy''s poll, and my vote was ''You better believe it! I''m outta there.'' Having said that, I think the other side of the story needs to be told.

DH and I started our relationship about three months before I left XH, and about eight months before the divorce was final. So, yes, I cheated on XH. And DH was married to his XW at the time, so he cheated on her too. Does that make us terrible, horrible people? No, it does not. And let me tell you why:

My XH was very abusive and controlling, and he had a drug problem. I had been trying to leave the relationship for quite some time, but he threatened me every time I tried to leave. I was so miserable in that ''marriage,'' and I was so desperate to leave, but I just couldn''t see any safe way to get out. So, I bent over backwards trying to make it work. Of course, as we all know, it takes two to make a marriage work, and I was the only one who was trying. XH didn''t want to put in any of the effort to make our marriage succeed, but he didn''t want to let me go either.

DH and I had been friends for quite a while (ironically enough, XH is the one who introduced us), and we did see each other frequently since we had so many friends in common. We had always gotten along very well, and we started talking to each other about the issues we were having with our respective spouses. (His XW was very neglectful and indifferent to him . . . she had basically ''checked out'' of the marriage. Most of the time, she literally didn''t know or care if he was even in the house. So, obviously, he was pretty miserable too.)

Neither of us ever meant to cheat on our spouses. It''s not like we just woke up one day and said, ''Gee, I''m bored . . . I think I''ll start an affair today!'' It''s really not that simple. I can guarantee you that DH and I would NEVER have done what we did if things were OK at home, or if our spouses were even trying to improve the situation at home. XH and I went to marriage counseling as our relationship was circling the drain, and our counselor told us something that has really stuck with me: ''Happily married people don''t have affairs.''

As I mentioned above, when I voted in Uppy''s poll, I said that cheating is definitely a deal-breaker for me. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite, or maybe not . . . I don''t know. But honestly, while I was cheating on XH, I think I was hoping that he would choose to divorce me when he found out (because I know that''s what I would have done if I had been in his shoes).

Please don''t get me wrong ~ I''m not at all proud of what DH and I did. If I had it to do over again, there are many things that I would have done differently, hindsight being 20/20. However, I can''t honestly say that I regret it. I am married to the most wonderful person on the planet, we are completely crazy about each other even after more than six years, and I am unbelievably happy. I can''t say with any certainty what my life would have been like if I hadn''t cheated on XH. But, if I had to guess, I would say that I''d probably still be stuck in that miserable excuse for a marriage. Or worse.

Please don''t flame me . . . this wasn''t easy for me to type, but I really felt like another perspective would be helpful here.

(((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))
The only thing that got me out of that relationship was another guy as well. I didn''t cheat with him physically, but I wanted to be with him, and I didn''t want to be with my ex. He was the only reason I was able to gain the strength to move on and tell my ex, "NO. It''s OVER. I don''t want to be with you." And I had to do this over the phone, because if it was in person he would threaten me, or block my car in, or physically restrain me. There was not one person in my life that wanted me to be with my ex. And why should they? I didn''t even want to be with him.

And like you Irish, hindsight is 20/20 and I should have handled things better, but you do stupid stuff when you''re scared.

Years later I ran into him at a party. I was 22, he was 23, and he was falling down drunk, as well as high on cocaine. He decided this was the time to confess to me that he had been sleeping with every girl that would have him since I had left him. Not to mention going from an alcoholic to being a full blown druggie. (I should mention that his father died when he was a baby from a drug overdose.) I thanked my lucky stars that I did what I did.

Now he''s still a drunken fool, who has a son and a wife (son came before the wife) and I hope for her and her son''s sake that he doesn''t treat her the way he treated me. And that he''s off of the drugs.

But Irish, I agree that a happy relationship does not encourage affairs....

Hugs to you for having the courage to post that. I know just how hard it was.

 

[TooPatient]

Date: 10/8/2009 2:56:23 PM
Author: trillionaire

Date: 10/8/2009 2:43:39 PM
Author: TooPatient

Date: 10/7/2009 9:50:59 PM
Author: y2kitty

Date: 10/5/2009 4:05:03 PM
Author: radiantquest
It depends on what circumstances he had the sex in. If it was someone that I knew he lusted after I would be REALLY upset. If it was a one night stand, like he went out with the guys maybe had too much to drink and slept with someone I think I could forgive. That is not to say that I wouldn''t put him through hell for a while, but I think I would forgive him. If he had an affair and there were emotions involved. If he spent time and money with another woman I would not forgive him. I don''t know if I would divorce him because I don''t really feel like divorce is an option, but I don''t think I would ever forgive him.

This happened to my friend. He went out with his college football drinking buddies and woke up naked with some girl. Says he doesn''t remember what happened (I believe him, I don''t know his wife and he has no reason to lie to me). He asked his priest what to do, if he should tell his wife. The priest said no, that it could cause a lot of problems and he doesn''t even know what he did.

Time for a new priest.

Regardless of what he did or didn''t do, his wife deserves to know. Just waking up in the same bed as a woman even fully clothed is something she should know about.

Even IF ''nothing happened'', he still made a mistake. He should trust his wife enough to tell her honestly what happened. Clearly she trust him. She did trust him to go drinking with his drinking buddies.


Beyond that, he may have been exposed to an STD. The wife deserves to know so she can make a decision to see a doctor and get checked if she needs to.

+1...

but I will say that it is very common advice to not come clean about infidelity if you don''t plan to do it again, because it only clears your conscience (considered a selfish need), but destroys the trust and self worth of your partner. It is VERY common advice, even though I do not agree. I feel that all parties should have all the information so that they can both make the right decisions for themselves.

I had a friend in college that propositioned me while I was rooming with his girlfriend. He sent me an email and a poem, and it was very personal and explicit. I printed them out and gave them to her, because I felt that she should know and be able to make her own decision about it. The stayed together and worked things out. Nothing happened, ever, between me and the guy, so it was more emotional cheating than anything else, but I feel better because they both were on the same page about the decision. However, because they stayed together, it probably would have hurt a lot less to have never known. It must have been nice for him, however, to know that he was loved unconditionally... flaws and all.

Your friend was able to make the decision to stay with him knowing all the facts. (I personally would have hugged you and then told him to get lost, but that is me)
Hopefully they are happy together and he doesn''t do that kind of thing anymore. At least your friend knew what kind of things he did (at least the once). Maybe just the fact that she found out when he did that will be enough to keep him from doing it again.


Seems to me that if a person "gets away" with cheating (emotionally or physically) or trying to cheat once, he/she is likely to do it again. (like the dog who eats off a plate on the table when you aren''t looking or a little kid who refuses to go to bed and then gets to have icecream instead)

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 10/8/2009 3:12:04 PM
Author: FrekeChild

(((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))
The only thing that got me out of that relationship was another guy as well. I didn''t cheat with him physically, but I wanted to be with him, and I didn''t want to be with my ex. He was the only reason I was able to gain the strength to move on and tell my ex, ''NO. It''s OVER. I don''t want to be with you.'' And I had to do this over the phone, because if it was in person he would threaten me, or block my car in, or physically restrain me. There was not one person in my life that wanted me to be with my ex. And why should they? I didn''t even want to be with him.

And like you Irish, hindsight is 20/20 and I should have handled things better, but you do stupid stuff when you''re scared.

Years later I ran into him at a party. I was 22, he was 23, and he was falling down drunk, as well as high on cocaine. He decided this was the time to confess to me that he had been sleeping with every girl that would have him since I had left him. Not to mention going from an alcoholic to being a full blown druggie. (I should mention that his father died when he was a baby from a drug overdose.) I thanked my lucky stars that I did what I did.

Now he''s still a drunken fool, who has a son and a wife (son came before the wife) and I hope for her and her son''s sake that he doesn''t treat her the way he treated me. And that he''s off of the drugs.

But Irish, I agree that a happy relationship does not encourage affairs....

Hugs to you for having the courage to post that. I know just how hard it was.

Thanks, Freke.

And I hear you on thanking your lucky stars that you''re not with him anymore! My XH and I still live in the same town, and have several friends in common, so I hear what''s going on with him from time to time (although I''d really rather not). His life is basically a trainwreck and he continues to blame everyone else for his problems instead of growing a spine and being a man. I feel so awful for his current wife and their son. There but for the grace of God . . .

 

[FrekeChild]

LMAO!

I just ran into the ex. At school. What are the odds?!

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 10/8/2009 7:01:17 PM
Author: FrekeChild
LMAO!

I just ran into the ex. At school. What are the odds?!

GAH! That sucks!

 

[Diamond*Dana]

It is definitely a deal breaker for me. I would never be able to trust him again, it would eat me up inside whenever he would leave the house! I could not live like that!

 

[Londongirl1]

Date: 10/5/2009 3:39:00 PM
Author: MonkeyPie
For me, yes, it would be a deal breaker - especially now that we are going to have children. If he wanted to just hurt me, that's one thing, but hurting the kids would mean I had his cajones on a platter!

Date: 10/5/2009 3:15:30 PM
Author: fiery
I know I'm probably in the minority here but for me it really depends on the circumstances surrounding it.

What possible circumstances would make it ok? Isn't sex with someone else still sex with someone that is not you?

To me there are no circumstances that make it o.k but only the person who has been cheated on can decide whether they can 'forgive and forget'.

Marriage is supposed to be about 'for better or for worse' but that doesn't mean that I'd put up with any c**p. Until it actually happens to me (God forbid) I can't really say for certain how I'd react.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 10/8/2009 2:59:41 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 10/8/2009 2:48:44 PM
Author: trillionaire

I''m not married (yet), but I am sure that sex ebbs and flows in relationships, and I wouldn''t want to be with anyone who felt that they could wander off during the dry spells, then stick around for the good times.

I agree. The fact is that love and sex are not the same thing. You can still feel loved without having sex all the time, and you can feel unloved if you have sex 20 times a day. For me, love is the most important and consistant of the two things. Sex is just a way of expressing love, but it''s not the only way to express it.

This isn''t the case for me, but for some people the two are much more intertwined. And I don''t blame them, they simply see physcial intimacy as a *core* component of love, and expression of love, and a fundamental part of relationships. Ok, maybe I sort of agree with them

A dry spell is certainly not reason to cheat -- if it was then every parent of a newborn would be out cheating

-- but some people don''t want to have sex for years and years and years. That is their right and their choice. But I do not think it is their right to force their partner to also be abstinate. Vows or not, that isn''t fair.

 

[Diva0413]

It''s a deal breaker for me. I know when you''re married it''s more difficult to make the decision to leave, but I don''t think I could get past it or over it.

 

[Upgradable]

Date: 10/9/2009 10:01:11 AM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Date: 10/8/2009 2:59:41 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 10/8/2009 2:48:44 PM
Author: trillionaire

I''m not married (yet), but I am sure that sex ebbs and flows in relationships, and I wouldn''t want to be with anyone who felt that they could wander off during the dry spells, then stick around for the good times.

I agree. The fact is that love and sex are not the same thing. You can still feel loved without having sex all the time, and you can feel unloved if you have sex 20 times a day. For me, love is the most important and consistant of the two things. Sex is just a way of expressing love, but it''s not the only way to express it.

This isn''t the case for me, but for some people the two are much more intertwined. And I don''t blame them, they simply see physcial intimacy as a *core* component of love, and expression of love, and a fundamental part of relationships. Ok, maybe I sort of agree with them

A dry spell is certainly not reason to cheat -- if it was then every parent of a newborn would be out cheating

-- but some people don''t want to have sex for years and years and years. That is their right and their choice. But I do not think it is their right to force their partner to also be abstinate. Vows or not, that isn''t fair.

You may be surprised, but this (in my small circle) is not as uncommon as some of you may think.

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 10/9/2009 12:06:39 PM
Author: Upgradable

Date: 10/9/2009 10:01:11 AM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Date: 10/8/2009 2:59:41 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 10/8/2009 2:48:44 PM
Author: trillionaire

I''m not married (yet), but I am sure that sex ebbs and flows in relationships, and I wouldn''t want to be with anyone who felt that they could wander off during the dry spells, then stick around for the good times.

I agree. The fact is that love and sex are not the same thing. You can still feel loved without having sex all the time, and you can feel unloved if you have sex 20 times a day. For me, love is the most important and consistant of the two things. Sex is just a way of expressing love, but it''s not the only way to express it.

This isn''t the case for me, but for some people the two are much more intertwined. And I don''t blame them, they simply see physcial intimacy as a *core* component of love, and expression of love, and a fundamental part of relationships. Ok, maybe I sort of agree with them

A dry spell is certainly not reason to cheat -- if it was then every parent of a newborn would be out cheating

-- but some people don''t want to have sex for years and years and years. That is their right and their choice. But I do not think it is their right to force their partner to also be abstinate. Vows or not, that isn''t fair.

You may be surprised, but this (in my small circle) is not as uncommon as some of you may think.

I concur that it''s not all that uncommon, but to me, that is the same thing as saying that you are unwilling to consider your partners needs in a relationship. I don''t condone infidelity... if you can''t live in the situation, seek help, or seek divorce. If your partner would rather let you leave than have sex with you, that''s probably all you need to know.

 

[Cehrabehra]

(((((freke)))))

Sometimes black and white just isn''t.

 

[Cehrabehra]

I''m just going to throw this out there in case it can be helpful to anyone...

I find that in my own relationship it is important to pay attention to my cycles and tailor my ongoing relationship with my partner to what is going on with my hormones and long gone are the days when I am an object of gratification. Okay, so I am - but taking some control of the situation and allowing myself to always be in that moment a full participant and all the in between times loving this man. Maybe that doesn''t make sense, but NOT having sex when you want it and HAVING sex when you don''t - neither of those are healthy... not long term anyway. There''s always pity sex lol But still, it comes from a different place than obligation. Obligatory sex is just... yucko. Married or unmarried - that expectation is just yucko. It should be about two people expressing an emotion (or multiple emotions) together even if it is just lust. No, I am not conservative. The two backed beast lol Working *with* your cycles alone can make improvements. There are a variety of things to do - cycle through them

PS Abstinance can be fun too in its ways... make the most of it if that is your choice Be on the verge and hold it back - no problem with that! Wonderful bonding even if you never take your clothes off.

If this is too off topic to the conversation, sorry!

 

[mrscushion]

Date: 10/5/2009 3:57:13 PM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 10/5/2009 3:53:59 PM

Author: NewEnglandLady

If it were to happen to me tomorrow, I would leave in a heartbeat.


If I had children with my husband and had fallen into the pattern of being crappy wife, then I might look at myself and think ''how did I contribute to this?'' Not that it justifies cheating--but if our relationship was in a bad place and we''d both forsaken our vows, then I might be more willing to work on it.

Pretty much what I was trying to say above, but much more concise!

Well said, NEL!

That''s my view as well.

 

[ksinger]

Nope. Not a deal breaker. After nearly 30 years of bungee-ing back to each other, we know we are stuck with one another until one or the other of us dies. Period.

With both of us pushing 50, sex is not the driver it once was. Not unimportant, mind, just not front and center - a part and only a part. If either of us was cheating, well, we''d have caught it LONG before it ever got to that stage. Domestic tranquility is so utterly important to us both, that things could not ever get to that state without alarms going off all over the place. And both of us are too old to ignore them like 20 or 30-somethings usually can. We don''t GET overs anymore and we''re totally aware of it. We''ve both been married before too, and have done the divorce thing. Icky. Upsetting. Crazy-making. So no, we''d work it out. It''s the only option. Of course, we both agree the best option is just not to go there.

 

[Tuckins1]

Date: 10/10/2009 10:06:00 AM
Author: ksinger
Nope. Not a deal breaker. After nearly 30 years of bungee-ing back to each other, we know we are stuck with one another until one or the other of us dies. Period.


With both of us pushing 50, sex is not the driver it once was. Not unimportant, mind, just not front and center - a part and only a part. If either of us was cheating, well, we''d have caught it LONG before it ever got to that stage. Domestic tranquility is so utterly important to us both, that things could not ever get to that state without alarms going off all over the place. And both of us are too old to ignore them like 20 or 30-somethings usually can. We don''t GET overs anymore and we''re totally aware of it. We''ve both been married before too, and have done the divorce thing. Icky. Upsetting. Crazy-making. So no, we''d work it out. It''s the only option. Of course, we both agree the best option is just not to go there.

I utterly agree. I like to think that DH and I would notice if one or the other was unhappy LONG before it ever got to the point of cheating.

 

[goCubsgo]

Date: 10/8/2009 9:46:09 AM
Author: fiery
And those couples that have been together for 50+ years that say nothing bad has ever happened between them are either lying or they can't remember

Tough times? Sure. Cheating? No.

As a guy, I am honestly shocked that so many of you say you would tolerate a cheating husband. Don't you value yourself? Staying with a cheating man for money or security or because you don't want to be a single mom at the expense of your pride and self-worth is never a good idea.

 

[Shoopy]

Date: 10/10/2009 11:43:02 PM
Author: goCubsgo

Date: 10/8/2009 9:46:09 AM

Author: fiery

And those couples that have been together for 50+ years that say nothing bad has ever happened between them are either lying or they can''t remember

Tough times? Sure. Cheating? No.


As a guy, I am honestly shocked that so many of you say you would tolerate a cheating husband. Don''t you value yourself? Staying with a cheating man for money or security or because you don''t want to be a single mom at the expense of your pride and self-worth is never a good idea.

Money? Security? Because of children?

I''m pretty certain those reasons haven''t come up in anyone''s response although I could be wrong. I know I would never use those as my own reasons.

I still stick to my original response that it depends. Not having gone through it I have zero clue how I would react but saying that it is a definite deal breaker would be a lie.

 

[goCubsgo]

I can honestly say I would never cheat on my future wife. The fact that I love her so much is one reason, but the bigger reason is because I keep my word--my commitment to her and to us--and my marriage vows mean everything to me. If people tolerate cheating, I guess my question is what is the point of getting married then and vowing to forsake all others?

It seems like women don't hold men to higher standards nowadays. They are no longer expected to wait for sex, to be providers and breadwinners, and they are not even expected to be faithful now? It seems to me that that should be the minimum.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 10/11/2009 12:44:08 AM
Author: goCubsgo
I can honestly say I would never cheat on my future wife. The fact that I love her so much is one reason, but the bigger reason is because I keep my word--my commitment to her and to us--and my marriage vows mean everything to me. If people tolerate cheating, I guess my question is what is the point of getting married then and vowing to forsake all others?

It seems like women don't hold men to higher standards nowadays. They are no longer expected to wait for sex, to be providers and breadwinners, and they are not even expected to be faithful now? It seems to me that that should be the minimum.

Who are you to be so intolerant of other people's choices in a marriage - of what they will or will not put up with? Especially - as I assume from your original post - that you yourself have not yet been married. Get ready for a ride dude, 'cause it ain't like you think, and I can almost guarantee, you won't like outsiders looking at YOUR choices and judging them. And they will. And you too will probably think them presumptuous and ignorant. But as my mama used to say, "You'll find out."

You speak like a man who is either young enough to have no real experience with what he is pontificating about and thus has no idea of what he's going to encounter or what he is capable of "tolerating", OR like a man who has actually made some of the mistakes and seen the many 30+ year marriages where both people are living lives of quiet desperation, and is very certain - NOW - after decades of observing over and over that people have feet of clay, of what he will or will not do. I suspect the former, simply because by the time you've reached the latter, your compassion for human failings has usually grown along with your understanding. With statements like "Staying with a cheating man for money or security or because you don't want to be a single mom at the expense of your pride and self-worth is never a good idea." you demonstrate a lack of understanding of just how complex and muddy some of the issues involved with tolerance really are, and I see little compassion in your posts.

As several have pointed out, context is crucial in this area. The whys of infidelity are important, and have great bearing on the tolerance issue.

And as a logical extension of your high value on marriage vows, if your own marriage vows will be so utterly important to you, then your own wife's cheating - should it ever happen - would, one would think, fall under the heading of "for worse" - or as you mention above "tough times" (honestly, what did you think that euphemism was referring to anyway?), and still not be an excuse for YOU to divorce HER, right? Your own vows would require that you "tolerate" this, yes? To work it out, rather than simply walk away. So why the disdain for women who would tolerate based on vows? Or for any other reason?

I would also trot out for your consideration, that women have a long history of tolerating men's cheating, as it was extremely common in past eras - to the point that it was almost assumed in certain contexts, and divorce was not an option. Some of them may have even been relieved to not have to suffer his attentions since every encounter was a chance for one of the pregnancies that they were not allowed to limit.

Best of luck with your impending marriage. Like the rest of us, you'll need a bit of that, along with the commitment.

 

[Cehrabehra]

last post above me deserves a brava!

It''s a journey... and sometimes people get off the path and back on... sometimes they wander away from one another never to return. Some people struggle to walk the straight and narrow but life has a way to put twists and turns and potholes and more branches than you can possibly imagine.

 

[princesss]

Date: 10/11/2009 9:20:18 AM
Author: ksinger

Date: 10/11/2009 12:44:08 AM

Author: goCubsgo

I can honestly say I would never cheat on my future wife. The fact that I love her so much is one reason, but the bigger reason is because I keep my word--my commitment to her and to us--and my marriage vows mean everything to me. If people tolerate cheating, I guess my question is what is the point of getting married then and vowing to forsake all others?


It seems like women don''t hold men to higher standards nowadays. They are no longer expected to wait for sex, to be providers and breadwinners, and they are not even expected to be faithful now? It seems to me that that should be the minimum.

Who are you to be so intolerant of other people''s choices in a marriage - of what they will or will not put up with? Especially - as I assume from your original post - that you yourself have not yet been married. Get ready for a ride dude, ''cause it ain''t like you think, and I can almost guarantee, you won''t like outsiders looking at YOUR choices and judging them. And they will. And you too will probably think them presumptuous and ignorant. But as my mama used to say, ''You''ll find out.''

You speak like a man who is either young enough to have no real experience with what he is pontificating about and thus has no idea of what he''s going to encounter or what he is capable of ''tolerating'', OR like a man who has actually made some of the mistakes and seen the many 30+ year marriages where both people are living lives of quiet desperation, and is very certain - NOW - after decades of observing over and over that people have feet of clay, of what he will or will not do. I suspect the former, simply because by the time you''ve reached the latter, your compassion for human failings has usually grown along with your understanding. With statements like ''Staying with a cheating man for money or security or because you don''t want to be a single mom at the expense of your pride and self-worth is never a good idea.'' you demonstrate a lack of understanding of just how complex and muddy some of the issues involved with tolerance really are, and I see little compassion in your posts.

As several have pointed out, context is crucial in this area. The whys of infidelity are important, and have great bearing on the tolerance issue.

And as a logical extension of your high value on marriage vows, if your own marriage vows will be so utterly important to you, then your own wife''s cheating - should it ever happen - would, one would think, fall under the heading of ''for worse'' - or as you mention above ''tough times'' (honestly, what did you think that euphemism was referring to anyway?), and still not be an excuse for YOU to divorce HER, right? Your own vows would require that you ''tolerate'' this, yes? To work it out, rather than simply walk away. So why the disdain for women who would tolerate based on vows? Or for any other reason?

I would also trot out for your consideration, that women have a long history of tolerating men''s cheating, as it was extremely common in past eras - to the point that it was almost assumed in certain contexts, and divorce was not an option. Some of them may have even been relieved to not have to suffer his attentions since every encounter was a chance for one of the pregnancies that they were not allowed to limit.


Best of luck with your impending marriage. Like the rest of us, you''ll need a bit of that, along with the commitment.

Fantastic post, ksinger.

 

[Kelli]

Date: 10/5/2009 6:09:47 PM
Author: fiery

Date: 10/5/2009 5:54:05 PM
Author: TooPatient

Women, imagine this:
There is a new woman in your husbands office. She is 10 years younger than you. Tall & skinny. Well dressed with just a bit of cleavage. She makes more money than you. Has a higher college degree. Understands your husband''s work. They have lunch together. Find that they both like classic cars (and you don''t). They have lunch together more often. She calls him all the time to talk cars. He starts trimming his beard neater and clipping the nose hairs. They start going to car shows on the weekend. He starts going to her house after work to help her with her latest restoration project. He decides to sell the car he just finished and start a new project. You only find out about it when someone else drives off in the car.

That kind of plays into the stereotype that all men want are skinny women with great boobs. If that''s the case then it really doesn''t matter how much ''freedom'' you give them, they''re going to find the skinny booby-full woman and cheat anyway.

Now that''s not fair, There was a lot more to the description of that made up woman than skinny with nice boobs. I think the interest in classic cars and better understanding of the husbands work would be WAY more intinidating to me than a little cleavage.

btw I''m really late to this thread so I apologize if I''m beating a dead horse.

 

[Kelli]

Date: 10/6/2009 12:35:43 AM
Author: HollyS

Date: 10/5/2009 8:02:24 PM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 10/5/2009 7:05:05 PM
Author: HollyS
''We''ve just welcomed others to our relationship, as a couple.''


I beg your pardon?


You would think, at my age, I could no longer be shocked. But, instead, I''m simply flabbergasted.


In this day and age? Seriously? Do you ask for medical histories first? Have test results to exchange?

I''ve already answered all questions related to this in a thread like 6 months ago.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ok-out-with-it-monkeypie.111952/

And DF... there''s no hard and fast rule. We discuss it as it comes along. Its not ''outlawed'' just because we''ll be married.

Hmmm. Yes, I see. Page after page of ''justifications''. Well, that changes everything. Carry on, then.

um. wow. sitting on a cloud of judgement are we?

 

[Kelli]

Date: 10/6/2009 2:39:57 AM
Author: cindygenit

Date: 10/6/2009 2:29:59 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 10/6/2009 1:41:29 AM
Author: cindygenit
If my boyfriend cheated on me, I would dump him straight away. No need to hear his excuses or reasons.

If my life partner/DH/FI cheated on me, I would ask him why he did it. Sometimes, the partner being cheated on could be the major contributor to the reason why the other cheated. Anyhow, I love my FI very much. I would never cheat and he would never cheat on me.

that''s what they all say.

LOL DF!!!!! Its true....

why are you so cynical?

because you can''t REALLY ever know. I don''t think my fiance would EVER cheat. He''s extremely faithful and prides himself on never having cheated, even on non-serious girlfriends. But I''ve seen people in faithful marriages leave their partners for their high school sweet-hearts, that they met and hooked up with at their FIFTY YEAR HIGH SCHOOL REUNION!!! People with kids and grandkids! You just don''t EVER, EVER know what the future holds. If I thought my fiance was the type to cheat, I wouldn''t be marrying him. But a lot can happen in a lifetime. No one predicts the future with 100% accuracy.

 

[Kelli]

Date: 10/7/2009 6:12:17 PM
Author: Upgradable

Date: 10/7/2009 5:00:35 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
It would depend on the circumstances, same as others have said.

Maybe it isn''t romantic, but I think that if you really want to be with someone for 50 or 60 years, then at *some point* in that time, one person is going to let the other person down in some way. Probably a big way. I think it is naive to think that two individuals can be together for that long and not weather some major bumps and heartache. So for me, if I am serious about a long term marriage with my husband, then I need to accept that he will do something that will hurt me at some point because he is only human, and humans make mistakes. And honestly, in the grand scheme of terrible things that happen in life and within relationships -- drug abuse, physcial abuse, alcoholism, mental illness, boredom and on and on and on... for me, cheating is *not* the worst thing that I would be willing to tolerate.

But don''t tell my husband that

Dachsie- you''ve come the closest to summing up what I personally believe! I am an optomist, but I know that during a lifetime together we''re both going to manage to disappoint each other. It is how we choose to accept and address those disappointments that make a marriage. To live, and learn from it, and become stronger by working together through it is what both my husband and I expect of each other.

Totally agree. Very well said Dachsie. I think it''s so important to take a realistic look at life and marriage sometimes.

 

[Kelli]

Date: 10/7/2009 9:50:59 PM
Author: y2kitty

Date: 10/5/2009 4:05:03 PM
Author: radiantquest
It depends on what circumstances he had the sex in. If it was someone that I knew he lusted after I would be REALLY upset. If it was a one night stand, like he went out with the guys maybe had too much to drink and slept with someone I think I could forgive. That is not to say that I wouldn''t put him through hell for a while, but I think I would forgive him. If he had an affair and there were emotions involved. If he spent time and money with another woman I would not forgive him. I don''t know if I would divorce him because I don''t really feel like divorce is an option, but I don''t think I would ever forgive him.

This happened to my friend. He went out with his college football drinking buddies and woke up naked with some girl. Says he doesn''t remember what happened (I believe him, I don''t know his wife and he has no reason to lie to me). He asked his priest what to do, if he should tell his wife. The priest said no, that it could cause a lot of problems and he doesn''t even know what he did.

Ugh... I disagree there. He doesn''t know what he did, but I''d sure as HELL want to know if my husband woke up naked with another woman. I hope he at least gets tested and is careful not to spread things to his wife before he knows he doesn''t have anything. What kind of weirdo priest would say that?

 

[Kelli]

Date: 10/9/2009 10:01:11 AM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Date: 10/8/2009 2:59:41 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 10/8/2009 2:48:44 PM
Author: trillionaire

I''m not married (yet), but I am sure that sex ebbs and flows in relationships, and I wouldn''t want to be with anyone who felt that they could wander off during the dry spells, then stick around for the good times.

I agree. The fact is that love and sex are not the same thing. You can still feel loved without having sex all the time, and you can feel unloved if you have sex 20 times a day. For me, love is the most important and consistant of the two things. Sex is just a way of expressing love, but it''s not the only way to express it.

This isn''t the case for me, but for some people the two are much more intertwined. And I don''t blame them, they simply see physcial intimacy as a *core* component of love, and expression of love, and a fundamental part of relationships. Ok, maybe I sort of agree with them

A dry spell is certainly not reason to cheat -- if it was then every parent of a newborn would be out cheating

-- but some people don''t want to have sex for years and years and years. That is their right and their choice. But I do not think it is their right to force their partner to also be abstinate. Vows or not, that isn''t fair.

totally agree

 

[Kelli]

LOL I just realized I ate up this whole page with responses to old posts. My apologies! It''s Sunday night, the FI is on night shifts, and I''m BORED!! That said, I don''t know how I''d react. I''d be absolutely crushed, of course. We''re getting married on our tenth anniversary of being together. For that reason, I''m pretty sure I already know what kind of guy he is, and he''s not a cheater. But life is not black and white, and people make mistakes. I don''t know if something happened ten or twenty years down the road, that it would be worth walking away from. Hopefully it wouldn''t ever get to that point. We know each other inside and out and hopefully we''d see the signs before something drastic happened. But.... if it did..... I don''t know. Some of you mentioned the difference between a one time drunken mistake and an affair. I don''t know that I could get over a real affair, that involved sex AND feelings. That might just hurt too much to move past. Not to mention, with an affiar-- how many points along the way could he have stopped it? He could have realized before anything even happened that it was going down that path and cut off ties. Also to think about- did he get caught or did he come clean? That would also make a difference. If I caught him, I would assume that he never would have told me and I couldn''t forgive that. Not that I''d condone a one time drunken mistake, but it would be a LOT easier to get over on a personal lever than him falling in love with someone else. I don''t think I''d ever trust his judgement on going out drinking again, and I''b be mad for a looooooong time, but I don''t know that I could walk away from an otherwise happy relationship over a one time mistake THAT HE CONFESSED TO. Again, if he were caught, and not honest about it, forget it. Then it''s over because I''d never be able to trust him again. Some of you also mentioned prostitutes. That, I absolutely could NOT get over, because although I''m sure it wouldn''t mean anything to him emotionally, it''s a planned out thing. Making the decision to hire a prostitute is just way out of line and way too easily avoidable for me to forgive. Not to mention, YUCK!!! Not to judge, and I''m sure there are some disease-free prostitutes out there, but I''d still be too grossed out by the thought to want to touch him again. So yes, there are so many different things to consider. I used to say I''d NEVER stay with a cheater. That still might be the case, but like so many of you (intelligently) said, there''s no way of knowing until you''re there. And hopefully none of us will have to find out. Kudos to you for being a great friend, Uppy!