E-Ring Confused and Dizzy

[Hephephippo]

Ok, now I’m the one dizzy and confused! Didn’t you say only 24 hours ago that 2.0+ carats was definitely too big for your hand and lifestyle?

Regardless, if you choose a super ideal diamond you can go lower in color and still have an amazingly white diamond. G/H/I and some SI’s have been known to look just as good as lesser cut F/VS diamonds (in terms of light return and performance, which can mask color). Just an FYI as HPD isn’t necessarily out of your budget. Check Whiteflash too and their ACA offerings. Brian Gavin Blue might be of interest as well if you’re okay with fluorescence (personal preference, and many on here love it).

Oops sorry @ILikeShiny I should have clarified that -- we went back to the original 2 to 2.5 after looking at gems in jewelry stores today. We learned a lot online about gems, but mostly this was based on trying on a few display rings we saw in designer stores. I guess I should never second-guess our first choice!! We are now firm on the minimum 2.0 carat round brilliant, and he is firm on the D to F color. What do you think of the blue nile diamonds by the way? We are using them as a reference, but of course we would purchase if it actually ends up being an amazing find.

Thanks to @whitewave for the HCA link -- we tossed out two options. One of the diamonds scored 1.5 so it was good. Need more opinions on it though.

And white wave, your ring looks spectacular. I could not spot any inclusions but keep in mind I have a very untrained eye! Your ring looks very eye clean to me.

 

[BlingDreams]

Oops sorry @ILikeShiny I should have clarified that -- we went back to the original 2 to 2.5 after looking at gems in jewelry stores today. We learned a lot online about gems, but mostly this was based on trying on a few display rings we saw in designer stores. I guess I should never second-guess our first choice!! We are now firm on the minimum 2.0 carat round brilliant, and he is firm on the D to F color. What do you think of the blue nile diamonds by the way? We are using them as a reference, but of course we would purchase if it actually ends up being an amazing find.

Ah, gotcha. Ok that makes sense then.

I’m not a fan of the BN diamonds because they don’t fit what you’re looking for. You’re not going to find super ideal cut diamonds at Blue Nile. You might find ideal cut diamonds, but super ideal cuts are proprietary and that’s not really BN’s demographics; they cater to the masses.

If you decide ideal would be fine for you (and it is for many people!), then BN diamonds might work ok for you.

 

[Hephephippo]

Thank you @ILikeShiny ! I would love a super ideal if I can really tell the difference, in person. We will call HPD and Whiteflash tomorrow and find out for ourselves.

I have to say that even if our budget could get us a super ideal / high performance diamond, we would not mind an ideal if the difference is not stark.

Thoughts based on experience with others who search here?

 

[whitewave]

To me, once you see the difference, you can't unsee it.

 

[Alexiszoe]

@Hephephippo , the difference between super ideal versus ideal, and whether it is worth the price difference is really up to the individual.

You may have read drizzle's thread on her comparison between super ideal and a non branded ideal diamond - for her she felt the visual difference was worth the premium.

I too had the opportunity to compare a super ideal to a non branded ideal stone - but for ME, while there was a slight difference in performance, I did not feel the super ideal was worth the price premium, and would have used the premium for a bigger or higher color diamond instead.

@Allisonfaye had mentioned earlier that PSers love super ideals and tend to encourage buyers in that direction - but ultimately it is really up to you and what matters most. Only you can determine what is the best value / what you desire for you.

I would suggest looking at a regular ideal versus a super ideal side by side and ask yourself if the difference is worth the price, or if the trade off (e.g. lower color / smaller etc) to go with the super ideal is worth it in the long run.

 

[Drizzle]

I agree with @Alexiszoe that at the end of the day, the decision is really personal For example, size and sparkle factor mattered to me the most! So I sacrificed on color/clarity to maximize on cut (what affects the light performance of a diamond) and carat. If budget allowed, I would've easily gone bigger though, haha

@Hephephippo
It sounds like color/clarity/cut is more important for you than size...you mentioned that you're now thinking 1.5 - 2 carat is more of your sweet spot after trying on 2 carat plus? I think your budget (which is $10k higher than mine, and I ended up with a 2.3 carat even with the "super ideal premium") is MORE THAN enough to get you a *very* high quality (which I interpret as high color/clarity/cut) stone in that 1.5-2 carat size

Now whether you place the premium on super ideal is completely up to you & your SO - and that's why I think it's great that you're planning to arrange for a in-person comparison session While at it, I would totally compare color too (if you haven't done so already). I thought I was color sensitive, and I prefer an "icy white" look in modern round brilliant cuts, but still felt that I was able to go down to an H after looking at H, G, J, E, and D in person. And clarity for me is a "mind" thing more than anything - because I could not see any inclusion in an SI1 stone unless I used the 10x loupe. But I understand and respect that priorities are different for everyone

 

[Drizzle]

Without knowing exactly where your color/clarity cut off is...I did a quick preliminary search on HPD and Whiteflash (specifying only their super ideal "A Cut Above") for the following ranges:

• 1.5-2 carat
• colorless range (D-F)
• VS1+

and found A LOT of result! Here are just a few to share:

HPD:
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD8556
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9573
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9312

WhiteFlash:
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3753619.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3802916.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3894513.htm

Now I'm not an expert so I'm sure someone else can guide you better, but I just wanted to give you an ideal that your budget can more than get you that "high quality" stone, especially if you're not in the "bigger the better" camp - I wish I wasn't haha but we all like what we like right?

Anyways OP, I hope you have fun comparing the stones in person, and make the decision that's best for you and your SO. Definitely come back and share your progress with us!

 

[Alexiszoe]

An analogy to put the whole ideal versus super ideal perspective is like staying at the W hotel versus St Regis.

Both are excellent. You won't go wrong with either of them. The St Regis is a bit more opulent, but most don't require that level of luxury, and the W is more than enough. While for others, the bits of added luxury at St Regis is what makes a difference for them.

Either way both are excellent choices

 

[scarsmum]

I suspect you are looking for tapered baguette setting, something like this

 

[LLJsmom]

Maybe this thread may be helpful. I recently did a search for a friend, and I've owned GIA XXX, seen AGS 000 and super ideal.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/would-you-spend-extra-on-a-super-ideal.234492/

I think it's largely getting to know yourself. I didn't know myself well enough. I first thought that GIA 3X would be good enough for me. Overtime, a period of a couple of years, looking at more stones online and in person, I eventually developed the "taste" for super ideals. Then I could start seeing the flaws in my GIA 3X, wanted even "more perfect", couldn't really live with knowing that there was "better" out there, at least better in my opinion. I wish I gave myself room and time for my taste to develop and grow and expand. Oh well...

It's really not that Pricescopers "push" super ideals. It's just that many have seen many rings over the course of a number of years, of owning and wearing diamonds. A lot of lessons/mistakes have been hard earned, and expensive. So people are sharing from their experiences, and maybe trying to prevent an expensive mistake. It's totally possible that you won't notice or won't care about any differences between a well cut GIA 3X and a super ideal. That is fine. No judgement there. However, there are a number of people that have.
If you can, give yourself time for your taste to grow and develop a little. Or buy from a vendor that has a expansive enough upgrade policy that lets you grow.
Good luck.

 

[Hephephippo]

I suspect you are looking for tapered baguette setting, something like this

This is a beautiful and timeless setting @scarsmum by the way do you know if it is possible to set a gem lower on the ring (almost flushed with the ring?) And what that setting is called? Then wish to add baguettes on each side of the gem. I think it's a basic settings but timeless/classic.

 

[Hephephippo]

@LLJsmom @Drizzle @Alexiszoe @Allisonfaye

The explanation and breaking down my thoughts really helped. Even the hotel comparison -- it's like a very good ELI5 (explain like I am 5) and I needed that. We are keeping an open mind both directions and finding out how we can see the diamonds in new york city without making a purchase.

We are going to call the HPD and Whiteflash numbers today to find out. I understand from drizzle that HPD also carries CBI gems so that is a double win for us.

Dear @Wink , as recommended by many here would you be able to help?! My SO and I would like to see super ideal gems in person In new York city hopefully before the holidayskity

Thank you again to the kind folks here on PS!!

 

[scarsmum]

If you take a look at this video you will see how a tapered baguette setting is generally made. The example picture has a big diamond so might look more bulky than usual. https://www.bluenile.com/build-your-own-ring/baguette-diamond-engagement-ring-14k-white-gold_20391

 

[Hephephippo]

I wanted to share two stones that caught my attention and get your thoughts both from Whiteflash:

Diamond 1, an ACA option:
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3802916.htm

And
Diamond 2, a Premium option:
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3739927.htm


Would anyone care to share their thoughts on each and which they would choose?

 

[SimoneDi]

@Hephephippo I am just catching up on the progress you have made in the past week in regards to finding your new e-ring! Both diamonds above are good options. My personal opinion is that staying at F color in the colorless range and VS1-2 clarity will give you the best value for money. I am not in love with the depth and overall proportikns of the Premium select option and the other option is a bit of an overkill on color for me.
I am surprised that Black by BGD has not been mentioned since the line specializes in high color super ideal cut stones. Here is an option in the same price range as the ones you suggested:
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/.../2.050-f-vs2-round-diamond-bkags-104097007002
I love this stone. It gets you above 2ct still in the colorless and VS clarity ranges!

 

[Hephephippo]

Thanks @SimoneDi -- I had a look at the link you sent me and that, in my newbie (but learning opinion) is superb!

We also had the chance to visit ID jewelers in NYC and it was a fantastic experience. They showed us this diamond. It was very excellent in my opinion, but I would love to hear your thoughts on it, as well as other PS folks, keeping in mind we would save some money on this gem over a super ideal.. i have not yet seen a super ideal in person and i'm waiting to hear back from someone on that.

It's a 2.0 carat F, VS2 gem, round brilliant with a current GIA cert.

 

[SimoneDi]

Thanks @SimoneDi -- I had a look at the link you sent me and that, in my newbie (but learning opinion) is superb!

We also had the chance to visit ID jewelers in NYC and it was a fantastic experience. They showed us this diamond. It was very excellent in my opinion, but I would love to hear your thoughts on it, as well as other PS folks, keeping in mind we would save some money on this gem over a super ideal.. i have not yet seen a super ideal in person and i'm waiting to hear back from someone on that.

It's a 2.0 carat F, VS2 gem, round brilliant with a current GIA cert.

The IDJ pick is a beautiful diamond, but it is not H&A super-ideal diamond. Again, not everyone needs super-ideal diamonds but between this and the BGD I will pick the BGD black hands down.

Can’t we get the GIA # for the IDJ one? Also, I am not sure what is the pricing of the stone, I guess that also can make a difference.

 

[Hephephippo]

The IDJ pick is a beautiful diamond, but it is not H&A super-ideal diamond. Again, not everyone needs super-ideal diamonds but between this and the BGD I will pick the BGD black hands down.

Can’t we get the GIA # for the IDJ one? Also, I am not sure what is the pricing of the stone, I guess that also can make a difference.

Can I attach the GIA here in full or is that making it too public? The GIA # is 6272604899 The price difference is 5k.

 

[SimoneDi]

Can I attach the GIA here in full or is that making it too public? The GIA # is 6272604899 The price difference is 5k.

The number you provided is plenty. The diamond has good proportions. The aset shows strong light return but it also displays that it is not a perfectly symmetrical stone (some leakage is visible at the table appx at 11 to 3 o’clock). That could be also be caused a bit based on the way the image was taken, but it is also not an H&A diamond - the hearts are not clearly defined and symmetrical. That said, it still looks like a great diamond and you have also seen it in person! Nonetheless, if I were to make the choice, I would probably go with the BGD Black. It literally has my ideal proportions and it is a step above the IDJ stone. Also, if I recall correctly, you mentioned that most likely you will not be upgrading in the future, then why not go for the best you can buy at this time? You can always purchase the diamond and compare it to IDJ’s in person. If you don’t see a big difference between the diamonds, you can always return it and pick a different one.

 

[Hephephippo]

The number you provided is plenty. The diamond has good proportions. The aset shows strong light return but it also displays that it is not a perfectly symmetrical stone (some leakage is visible at the table appx at 11 to 3 o’clock). That could be also be caused bit based on the way the image was taken, but it is also not an H&A diamond - the hearts are not clearly defined and symmetrical. That said, it still looks like a great diamond and you have also seen it in person! Nonetheless, if I were to make the choice, I would probably go with the BGD Black. It literally has my ideal proportions and it is a step about the IDJ stone. Also, if I recall correctly, you mentioned that most likely you will not be upgrading in the future, then why not go for the best you can buy at this time? You can always purchase the diamond and compare it to IDJ’s in person. If you don’t see a big difference between the diamonds, you can always return it and pick a different one.

These are all thoughts lingering in my head and I think I needed to hear it elsewhere before I decide.

Yes no intention of upgrading just getting new jewelry altogether. The E-ring has more sentimental value. I will sit on this a little to give it a bit more thought.

 

[Maggiemeans]

I am by far NOT an expert... please understand that.
but I do see that same leakage SimonDi mentioned.. but what I also see..
is look at the girdle of the stone, along the edge at what would be about 6 minutes to 10 minutes after the hour (if this round stone was a clock)... look how there is a flat edge there.
M.

EDITED TO CORRECT TO "NOT AN EXPERT"

 

[SimoneDi]

These are all thoughts lingering in my head and I think I needed to hear it elsewhere before I decide.

Yes no intention of upgrading just getting new jewelry altogether. The E-ring has more sentimental value. I will sit on this a little to give it a bit more thought.

I think that you are doing the ring thing to wait a bit and explore all options. I am sure that your forever engagement ring will be gorgeous regardless of what you select in the end!

 

[SimoneDi]

@rockysalamander can you please help out with the ASET reading?

 

[Hephephippo]

I am by far an expert... please understand that.
but I do see that same leakage SimonDi mentioned.. but what I also see..
is look at the girdle of the stone, along the edge at what would be about 6 minutes to 10 minutes after the hour (if this round stone was a clock)... look how there is a flat edge there.
M.

What does a flat edge indicate? Apologies for being clueless

Edit: nevermind I saw it!

 

[Alexiszoe]

One thing I would like to point out is how the images online are much bigger in relation to the actual size of the diamond.

In real life these little bits may or may not make a major difference to performance - which can only be determined by a side by side comparison in person, by you.

 

[rockysalamander]

@rockysalamander can you please help out with the ASET reading?

Given your past experience, I'm going to give a very picky review. From both the black and white field ASET, you can see indexing variation (the white/black triangle between the table and girdle) which suggests less light return in some areas than other. They are not the same as each other and not all perfect triangles. If you look at the facets between the arrow tips, you can see some green facets. Those are areas of less light return than the red. Now, that pink under the table. That is leakage, but the white field is about as harsh as it can be since you are blasting white light from behind). So, I think this is ok but not great. The variation in that pink (size and shape) also suggest the diamond has varying pavilion angles. We have seen a lot of that lately. But, what really don't personally like are the deep clefts and that they are so variable in size in the hearts view (blue image). This mean that it has long halves. My guess is they are around 80% or longer (which I just confirmed with the GIA). Not really a good or bad thing, but it affects the 'flavor' of the diamond, for want of a better terms. It is really the sum total of the images and the angles that tell the story. I would rather see 40.6 PA with the 35 CA. I personally prefer chubby arrows as I like more contrast in a modern diamond.

All together, this is a good diamond that should have good performance. It is not on par with the super-ideals, but above what the average person wears. There is some leakage and with the 80% LFG, I would strongly recommend looking at this in lots of light to see if you like it...outdoors, indoors, LED, fluorescent, etc. Look at at 45 degrees and from the side and see what you think. PS members have recommended such angles/light return given constraints on budget/timing/etc. For me, personally, I would keep looking to get better light return and precision/symmetry -- and chubby arrows. But, this cut/style may appeal to you.

Relative to the flat edge, with an excellent symmetry which includes flattened areas being reasons to downgrade, I suspect that is a photoeffect more than a real 'flat spot'.

Edited to add: If someone said "size and F color are the most important thing to me" and this was at the top of their budget, but met their size and color needs, I can see this being suggested with cautions. But, with your bad experience, I so want you to look at your hand and be giddy years later. To see perfection and know you got a great stone. So, we can give you technical views and our personal preferences, but I hope you spend time determining your preferences...even within modern rounds.

 

[whitewave]

@Hephephippo I am just catching up on the progress you have made in the past week in regards to finding your new e-ring! Both diamonds above are good options. My personal opinion is that staying at F color in the colorless range and VS1-2 clarity will give you the best value for money. I am not in love with the depth and overall proportikns of the Premium select option and the other option is a bit of an overkill on color for me.
I am surprised that Black by BGD has not been mentioned since the line specializes in high color super ideal cut stones. Here is an option in the same price range as the ones you suggested:
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/.../2.050-f-vs2-round-diamond-bkags-104097007002
I love this stone. It gets you above 2ct still in the colorless and VS clarity ranges!

That BG black is fantastic! Gorgeous diamond.

 

[Hephephippo]

Given your past experience, I'm going to give a very picky review. From both the black and white field ASET, you can see indexing variation (the white/black triangle between the table and girdle) which suggests less light return in some areas than other. They are not the same as each other and not all perfect triangles. If you look at the facets between the arrow tips, you can see some green facets. Those are areas of less light return than the red. Now, that pink under the table. That is leakage, but the white field is about as harsh as it can be since you are blasting white light from behind). So, I think this is ok but not great. The variation in that pink (size and shape) also suggest the diamond has varying pavilion angles. We have seen a lot of that lately. But, what really don't personally like are the deep clefts and that they are so variable in size in the hearts view (blue image). This mean that it has long halves. My guess is they are around 80% or longer (which I just confirmed with the GIA). Not really a good or bad thing, but it affects the 'flavor' of the diamond, for want of a better terms. It is really the sum total of the images and the angles that tell the story. I would rather see 40.6 PA with the 35 CA. I personally prefer chubby arrows as I like more contrast in a modern diamond.

All together, this is a good diamond that should have good performance. It is not on par with the super-ideals, but above what the average person wears. There is some leakage and with the 80% LFG, I would strongly recommend looking at this in lots of light to see if you like it...outdoors, indoors, LED, fluorescent, etc. Look at at 45 degrees and from the side and see what you think. PS members have recommended such angles/light return given constraints on budget/timing/etc. For me, personally, I would keep looking to get better light return and precision/symmetry -- and chubby arrows. But, this cut/style may appeal to you.

Relative to the flat edge, with an excellent symmetry which includes flattened areas being reasons to downgrade, I suspect that is a photoeffect more than a real 'flat spot'.

Edited to add: If someone said "size and F color are the most important thing to me" and this was at the top of their budget, but met their size and color needs, I can see this being suggested with cautions. But, with your bad experience, I so want you to look at your hand and be giddy years later. To see perfection and know you got a great stone. So, we can give you technical views and our personal preferences, but I hope you spend time determining your preferences...even within modern rounds.

@SimoneDi thank you -- I think you understand where my heart is coming from and I truly am right with you that I want the best gem our budget can buy and be giddy forever since we won't be upgrading the E-ring anyway for its sentimental value. What did you think of the BG black diamond?

I looked at Whiteflash and what they have in stock and they dont have any that compare closely to the black Gavin diamond within our budget. I am quite impressed with the BG black diamond but want to sit on it within reason and get thoughts, before pulling the trigger.

 

[SimoneDi]

@SimoneDi thank you -- I think you understand where my heart is coming from and I truly am right with you that I want the best gem our budget can buy and be giddy forever since we won't be upgrading the E-ring anyway for its sentimental value. What did you think of the BG black diamond?

I looked at Whiteflash and what they have in stock and they dont have any that compare closely to the black Gavin diamond within our budget. I am quite impressed with the BG black diamond but want to sit on it within reason and get thoughts, before pulling the trigger.

I also looked through all super ideal vendors and this is really the best option within budget that ticks all the boxes - super ideal, colorless, VS clarity. I have personally bought and upgraded with BGD 3 times and additionally I have had them recut stones 2 times, now I am on my 3rd recut with them. I have also referred friends to the company and they have always been happy with their purchases. Overall, I have only good things to say about BGD.
I would definitely at least reserve the stone even if you want to think about it for a couple of days. Process the transaction and select “wire” as the pmt method and that will reserve the stone.
I do still think that it is a gorgeous diamond!

 

[Hephephippo]

I also looked through all super ideal vendors and this is really the best option within budget that ticks all the boxes - super ideal, colorless, VS clarity. I have personally bought and upgraded with BGD 3 times and additionally I have had them recut stones 2 times, now I am on my 3rd recut with them. I have also referred friends to the company and they have always been happy with their purchases. Overall, I have only good things to say about BGD.
I would definitely at least reserve the stone even if you want to think about it for a couple of days. Process the transaction and select “wire” as the pmt method and that will reserve the stone.
I do still think that it is a gorgeous diamond!

Done. Thank you for this tip. We can sit on this for a few days until we have decided.