E-bay nightmare...any advice???

[pyramid]

Has anyone checked feedback on ebay for diamond4all to see if anyone else has received refunds. What if he is telling the truth and did not get back the same ring?

Innocent until proven guilty is how the British court of law works.

 

[pyramid]

Dublingirl said she paid more than $16000 dollars for the ring but the item number she lists in her first post has a sale price of US $8,999.00.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2683501312

 

[Griffin]

Some stuff on here doesn't add up. We obviously don't have all the facts.

That being said, even if only the facts D4All personally has stated, sent in paperwork with the ring, and posted on Ebay were all accepted as true - He still is looking at fraud and criminal investigation at the very least.

We also have a person that has apparently either 1) attemped to intentionally mislead us with some of his earliest "facts" hoping we would fall for it like normal consumers, or 2) simply is ignorant of basic information involving diamonds, the industry, and the way stones are appraised.

Leaving us to decide between incompetence or fraud doesn't leave us much room for any positive judgements.

BTW - Can someone explain why a person, supposedly with a massively successful jewelry empire with diamond cutting factories in Isreal handling kilos of rough would spend the majority of thier time selling $1.99 flea market leavings and useless trinkets?

Check out this fine example - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3900070969

Makes you wonder....

 

[Uncle Marty]

Pyramid et al,
I have spoken to Dublin Girl nor have I seen the ring.
However I believe the confusion here is that she paid $8999.00 for the ring. It was appraised for $16,000.
The problem with this sale appears that the Diamonds are not what was represented in the advertisement on e-Bay.
Two diamonds do not weigh ( based upon calculations done from measurements without removing the Diamonds) as represented.
The clarity and color are not as stated in the advertisement.

David finds it hard to believe that his employee could have made a mistake when listing the Diamond ring for sale.

David am I right? Could have your employee placed the wrong ring for sale or could someone in your employ sent out the wrong ring ?
These things happen as well when we delegate out work to some people who do are not as careful as you would be in the same situation.

Uncle Marty of course

 

[Uncle Marty]

Pyramid et al,
Correction
I have NOT spoken To Dublin Girl nor have I ever seen the ring.
I know only what i have seen on this website.

Uncle Marty of course

 

[pyramid]

----------------
On 2/29/2004 7:36:58 AM dublingirl wrote:

Our appraisal values the ring at $16K, less than we paid, but way off the fabulous $50k!!! ----------------

Yes I know there are a lot of issues but she is saying that she paid more than $16k. Maybe she mean to say 'more than' perhaps it makes more sense reading it that way.

 

[Nicrez]

with so many different companies and names people MAY find it hard who to blame...




These are the facts as printed on that page. if these words do not consitute a legally binding contract, I don't know what does! If you buy a shirt at a store and they say 30 days for a full refund, then they give you your money back. Simple as that!:

SATISFACTION GUARANTEED!

Our merchandise is 100% guaranteed or your money back within 7 days of receipt of the product. We aim high to satisfy all our customers and you can rest assured that our jewelry will meet if not exceed your expectations. If for some reason you are not fully satisfied or the diamond does not match the grading report, return the merchandise without question asked and your money will be refunded in full less shipping and handling.

ABOUT THE MANUFACTURER

RomancingTheStone Inc. is a family owned company that started with the idea of bringing the style and fashion originating from the heart of New York City’s Diamond district. Offering the best possible genuine natural diamond to the connoisseurs of today’s top fashion in quality jewelries. With the finest gold crafters and diamond suppliers, RomancingTheStone, Inc. strive to be at the front line in designing one-of-a-kind luxury jewelry item.

As a family oriented business, we understand the importance of meeting your goal. The satisfaction of our valued customer is our top priority, providing you the best personalize service and outstanding value we can offer. We will make sure you'll get your money worth.

Diamonds For All, those are YOUR words. You can talk about Isreal, you can talk about court systems, but before anything even got to a lawyer, this should have been resolved. Why are you making things more difficult, when it is obvious that your easier option right now is to get the ring appraised (even at GAL), and only you and your employees know what was shipped out. Perhaps in the future you need to catalogue your stones and settings properly and video tape the packaging. Is it possible your employee who set the stones switched them? Diamond switching happens in places where people REALLY know diamonds and have access to them, like a cutter's facility, or a diamond setters....

 

[icelovr]

Af first I took it to mean:
The ring appraised at 16K - which is less than we paid for the item - and also way off the 50K stated value
EX: they paid 18K and it came it at 16K

and after thinking about it - I also thought she meant to put "more than..." not "less than..."
EX: they paid 10K and it came in at 16K, but not close to 50K

Am I following this right?

 

[pyramid]

icelovr that is exactly what I was thinking, I even thought the 18k the same as you.


Nicrez I am not in favour of the seller but if as in your example if someone buys a shirt from you and then returns to you a similar shirt but you know it is not like the ones you sell would you return their money also. Just a thought.

 

[vinniedog]

Any new news on this?

 

[pyramid]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2696309896&category=11017


Note: same name and address for The Ringmaster as mentioned in Dublingirl's first post on this thread.


He is selling on ebay.co.uk as well. Notice 3 x loupe magnification but what can you see only a side view of the diamond ring. Also clarity grade is VS2 enhanced. Enhanced mmmm.

 

[M-16]

Hi.
I am new (just registered here!) to this diamond thing (I just want her to say yes! whatever it takes....) and reading this case out of curiosity (I thought to buy it on eBay), my first thought was to do to this guy what my platoon did to this merchant in Iraq who sold our commander a fake Rolex.... I still think this ******* should honor his return policy no matter what!
Saying that, I had some thoughts (yes, even soldiers can think..): He claims that these are NOT his diamonds even after learning that Martin Haske gave it a price tag of $16.000.00!!!! Do I understand it right? This guy in Iraq sold us a $10.00 watch for $2000.00 (a Rolex Daytona that is $11.000.00 in the state) but this seller sold dublingirl a ring for $10.000.00 that was appraised by a very reliable and super strict appraiser for $16.000.00!!!
All I can think is:
a. I should go there and buy 10 of them and make some money selling to my friends who are planning to pop the question soon...
b. If he doesn't want to take back a $10.000.00 ring that was appraised by Martin Haske for $16.000.00 who knows how much was the original one worth (assuming it was changed as he said - before Martin Haske got it) maybe it would have been appraised by Martin Haske for $50.000.00 had he got it.
Paying $10.000.00 and getting $16.000.00 what's wrong with that? Am I missing something?
Thanks
M-16

 

[Uncle Marty]

M16 et al,
Yes you are right.
However the value was not the issue. Although the seller submitted an appraisal from GAL ( a lab I personally have never heard about before) a lab that no one has publically identified on this forum.
What really was the issue was 2 of the Diamonds in the ring. One was identified by GAL and the seller as a 1.24 F SI1 and the other 1.25 F SI1
Mr Marty Haske, a Senior Member of NAJA, a GG, and many other credentials has identified one of the Diamonds as being .96 and the other 1.05 with a color grade of H-I-J and clarity of I1.

I have been in this business for over 50 years. All too often sellers of Diamonds and colored gemstones do notunderstand that price alone does not make value. Value is determined by telling the truth about what you are selling. Some sellers are of the opinion that consumers only want a bargain based upon the selling price and those consumers are not entitled to truth in identification. That is the problem.

Uncle Marty of course

 

[M-16]

Hi.
Thanks Uncle Marty for clearing it up!
I will never buy a stone mounted in a ring unless I ask the jeweler to take it out and place it on the scale!
As for that guy:
I guess I should check twice before firing once... After all even if no one touched the ring and his employees made a mistake (as you wrote before) he is not a crook, a fraud nor a criminal, just a plain hard nose foreigner ******* who doesn't understand the selling ethics of this beautiful country of our!
M-16
P.S.
I wish I could walk into a Ford dealership (just came back and need a new set of wheels..) and get a $16.000.00 truck for $10.000.00 even if the sleazy salesman promised me a 2.00 Ton pickup and it was a 1.5 Ton pickup.. For a guy like me it is the value! I want to get what I pay for! - if not - I be at your door the next morning. but if you gave me MORE (in dollar value) than what I paid for - In my book you are a good man.
M-16

 

[Mara]

I also took it to mean that she meant to say she paid LESS than $16k. The way she wrote it seemed as though she paid less than what it appraised, but WAY off what the seller said it would. Probably just a typo. I assumed she paid $9-10k per the auction.

 

[Demelza]

"just a plain hard nose foreigner ******* who doesn't understand the selling ethics of this beautiful country of our!"

I, for one, do not appreciate xenophobic comments such as this one, especially on an internet forum where there are likely to be people from many different countries. Assuming Diamonds4all is not running an honest business, it most certainly is not because he's from another country.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 3/14/2004 12:18:41 AM M-16 wrote:

just a plain hard nose foreigner *******

----------------

Oh......as opposed to a red, white, and blue, dyed-in-the-wool, ignorant American a**hole like yourself?

M-16, you quite clearly don't comprehend the climate of this forum. Closemindedness and comments like the one you made above just don't fly here.

If you want to play nicely here, we'd welcome that. If you want to conduct yourself in such a rude manner, take it somewhere else.

 

[M-16]

Sorry about the a**hole,

But it must have something to do with him being just a plain hard nosed foreigner who doesn't understand / respect the selling ethics of this beautiful country of ours - I have nothing against him, the company and the transaction. I can't put myself in dublingirl's shoes but if it was me, I would say BIG thank you for giving me FREE MONEY! after all He sent (in the worst case scenario) a $16.000.00 diamonds for a payments of only $8999.00 almost TWICE! what she paid for - I don't ignore it and as I said: He is NO CRIMINAL! and in my book - he is as good as it can gets.
HOWEVER:
We have "truth in advertisement" laws in this country and he promised "No Question Asked" return policy - he even said something about refunding the money if the ring didn't match the color of her new shoes..!?
If he had any respect for these truth in advertisement laws OF OUR COUNTRY- we wouldn't have had this issue here.
Diamond4all: Return the money AND / OR Be a man - donate the difference between what she paid to what it's worth (about $7000.00 extra of you money) to this site to start a new "protection fund" were people on this forum will choose a committee that will oversee the protection of buyers that got hurt. This money (and future donations by jewelry companies this committee will solicited) will go to fund anything from general awareness to attorneys fees.
Diamond4all: I am not expecting you to have the dignity and honor of a Marine but -Show everyone that you are right and I am wrong!
M-16

 

[strmrdr]

M-16,
First thank you sir for your service to your country :}

That said you need to look into how real world selling prices , insurance and appraisals work in the diamond industry.
It is clear that you dont understand it and its a wierd mess that takes a while to sort out.
The bottom line is that just because it appraises at 16k does not mean 16k is a good price for it or that anyone would buy it at that price.

as for "who doesn't understand / respect the selling ethics of this beautiful country of ours"
I think he actualy understands to well that there are none!
It is rare in the US to find any seller in any industry that would not take advantage of someone in persuit of more profit if they think they could get by with it.
Thats exackly what happened here and he got caught!

I regularly deal with business of all sorts and guess what some of the most honest are the ones you would call "foreigners".
They work hard and do there best and expect the same from others that do work for them sadly they often dont get it and get taken by some good old american companies that think its ok there only "foreigners".
Not that all are perfect there are a ton of money grubbers of all races and nationalities.

Anyway I recomend that you study the diamond industry a whole lot more before you buy those rings to sell your friends.
btw they lose up to 70% of their value the second they leave the store.
The used market is an even worse nightmare than the first sale market!

 

[pyramid]

Hi M-16, I am British so I am a foreigner as well I guess. I don't know how much you know about diamonds but the buyer was also promised different grades. Now the side stones turned out to be I1 which is imperfect grade, many love this grade if it is eyeclean and they can get a big stone for less. However, many would not buy this grade if they knew so apart from her getting a monetary deal she may not have bought the ring anyway for any amount of money if she knew the grades beforehand and now she cannot get her money back.

 

[pyramid]

By the way M-16, I have the utmost respect for what you do for your country and have done for ours also.

 

[Uncle Marty]

M16 et al,
Money is not the entire issue.
Yes, Dublin Girl is entitled to a refund.

The terms on the e-Bay sale was difficult to follow because he stated that NO Jeweler was to touch the ring. If a jeweler touched the ring, he implied in his messages that all jewelers therefore are suspect and could switch the Diamonds.

Apparently in David's experience with jewelers, we are all low life and since we have the ability to reset gemstones we therefore would, if given the opportunity. The fact that some Diamond dealers are low life apparently never occured to David.
(David is the seller). It is too bad that David does not believe that most jewelers (and some Diamond sellers) are people of integrity.

Apparently his experience with consumers is much the same. i.e. Everyone will cheat him if given the chance. He has little respect for anyone out of his circle of family.

He insulted a good man of integrity, Marty Haske.
A man that needs no defending among his peers.
David should have investigated the credentials of Marty Haske before writing on this forum and making accusations about Marty Haske. (the other Marty). My name happens to be Marty too, But I am known in the jewelry trade as Uncle Marty.

David insulted the intelligence of all the good, well meaning on this forum. They deserve an apology.

David insulted the entire jewelry retail industry as rip offs since only he knows the true value of a rock that is found in the ground and then his family creates a salesable item and sells it to the jewelry retail trade who rip off the ultimate consumers. He does agree these sales has made his family rich beyond my dreams (and others as well).

Apparently in David's thinking only he and his family are entitled to make a profit for their investment and labors. All others in the chain from the mine to a consumer are crooks.

David needs help. Money alone does not make the man. Somewhere along his development he went onto the wrong path. I believe I know which family he is a member. When I mentioned the family name as starting with a letter "C" there was no response. (neither negative nor positive) If I am right they would bring him back into the fold and show him the error of his attitude and his words.

David offered me a free trip to Israel and a tour of his family's factories and facilities. I have never been to Israel. I am a Jew and support the basic tenants of Israel as a Jewish homeland. When all other lands and all other people failed us and allowed my family to walk to the gas chamber under the whips and guns of sick people who hated us, We as a people realized we must have an ultimate home. But I am 2nd generation American. My father defended this country and so did I.
My personal allegience is to America where my family has been given the opportunity to be all they can and want to be.

I have a brother and sister. My brother teaches in the Graduate School of Social Work at Hunter College. My sister works in California with people who need help in the same field.

My children are both in the jewelry field. My daughter is a Senior Master Graduate Gemologist in Atlanta GA. My son works for an international jewelry manufacturer and has worked for them over 10 years. He lives in West Virginia.
They are both married and have blessed us with grandchildren.

The point of all of this is not the dollar value of the ring. The point is what most people refer to as integrity. David apparently misrepresented his product (ring) as being bigger and better than it is ( I have never touched or seen the ring).

David is fast to complain that someone else (not at his end) must have switched the Diamonds. He has an appraisal done by GAL to proove his assertions. (BTW does anyone know of the qualifications of GAL or who they are?)

M16, those of us (most of us , who I have known) who have made the jewelry business our life's work value integrity over money. My father and grandfather taught me a man's word is worth more than Gold.

I have never lived in Israel. Until these past few years, experiencing 9/11 in New York City and the previous bombing of the World Trade Tower I did not know or understand the anxiety of living under threats from terrorists. In all truth, we must forgive David because apparently he has lived in Israel where outside terror is a way of life.

I am not afraid to die but I want my children and grandchildren to have the length of life they are entitled to have because they were born in a free country. Free to work, free to worship as they please, free to start their family with as many children they can afford to raise, and free to give charity to whomever they wish. That to me is the American ethic and the American oppotunity.

My not living in Israel and not seeing with my own eyes how people live under constant threats of terror (buses being blown up filled with children going to school, mother's going to shop for food to feed the family etc.) and seeing innocent non-combatent people being blown up because they are different, would effect me too.

I do not know how long David has been here, but those images can never go away. Just look at our TV's each night.

Back to the Diamond issue.

David this is directed to you....
Yes, I would like to go to visit Israel and see my family who have made Aliah (moved to Israel permanently). I would like to visit with my wife's famiily who have done the same.
I have no intention to make Israel my home unless America asks me to leave. The Germans did it, the English did it, The Ruusians did it, The Polish did it, and many other countries over these past centuries told us to get out because we believed differently.
However, your offer will not change my thinking.
You must appologize to all you have insulted and do it publically or no one in America will ever believe you to be the wronged person.

M16, Unfortunately I have had to carry that archiac weapon with me for years hoping it would not jam when needed.

Price is not the issue. Appraisals for value is not the issue, what is the issue is a man's word about the weight, color and quality of the item that was sold to a person who is not an expert.

Uncle Marty of course

 

[LadyHawk]

I believe this must be David's web site, since he signs his name on the ABOUT US page as:
David C. Catz
CEO
http://www.romancingthestone.com/about.htm

 

[M-16]

Wow.
To all of you and especially to the good old (in a respective way, of course) Uncle Marty - Thank you for a good lesson! I have learn a lot from you guys, not only about diamonds but about life!
God Bless!
M-16

 

[diamond4all]

People.
1. My sincere apology to Marty Haske. As we now understand it - he was grading the diamonds as he saw them / got them. I shouldn't have jumped on him instead of the real problem:
2. Checking our records reviled that these diamonds / ring can not be ours - for one thing (not to mention the color or grade) for the last year we did not have in our NYC office even one round stone between 0.80 to 1.00 all are 0.45-0.55 (in the 0.50 carat section) 0.73-0.77 (in the 0.75 section) and all the 1.00 carats section are ALWAYS 1.01 - 1.10.
The office is run by the same employees since we opened and we NEVER had this exact problem, Which lead to the simple conclusion: We will not change nor refund the shirt if it's not ours.
M-16, Uncle Marty and others: You have been fighting and suffering for generations to achieve one thing: Freedom, law and order. I want the same. I want the freedom to do business in a state of law and order! No one, but no one - not a britz, a Yankee or even an Israeli will F%#K with me and my money.
I never had a case like this and will fight not to have any more like it.
This is a democracy which has no place for cross burning and lynch parties. This will be solved in a lawful and respectful matter. It took you guys days just to figure out how much she really paid and what it was appraised for. How can you tell from one email and without viewing all the evidence and records what was sent and what not? Thank god you don't have a gun like M-16 has.. We can go right back to the dark ages (Mel Gibson did...and no. I don't want to hear about it - this remark was made in regards to bad judgment on your part not religion)
David
P.S.
I do believe in god, however I am no longer religious, so let's leave all this Holocaust, Religion, Rabbis, Israel, Terrorism and the sex life of a common Palestinian goat out of this case and concentrate on the cold facts.

 

[pyramid]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Why don't you whittle it down to the cold facts and give YOUR customer back her money as your advertisements state. Look at the latest one on Ebay UK, you state no questions asked money back guarantee - so why are you asking questions?


I do not know whether to believe you are not but it just seems from your post above that you are picking apart anything that is being discussed here. It did not take us days to work out how much she paid, it was a typographical error on her part which was confusing the issue.

As you have changed your ruling now to sending your rings to an appraiser why do you not see this as a lesson in learning and refund the money as stated in your policy. Do you have proof that you did not send out these diamonds?

 

[pyramid]

http://www.romancingthestone.com/Browse_Item_Details.asp-Shopper_id=5074514241485074&Store_id=139&page_id=23&Item_ID=1178_3.htm



The above link from your site shows a diamond under 1 carat, however from what you said most of your round diamonds are 1 carat on the site.

 

[DavidEmslie]

I agree with pyramid, I myself wonder a few things about this guy, It was mentioned in one of the earlier posts the other things this guys sells. and that question like so many others has been dodged...diamond4all have you considerd a career in politics?

It does seem pretty fishy that this fabulously wealthy diamond dealer who claims to travel the world and deal with kilos of diamonds ect ect ect "Oooo look at me I am so rich and powerful in my posts and no one else knows what they are talking about!" dables not only in a couple of diamond rings on Ebay, but a bunch of knit-knack $1.99 to $9.99 items!

I would act fast and get your money back asap...but honesty I would think that the money is gone already...hence the need to sell all the knit-knacks ect.

Id be willing to bet there are a few more lies behind this whole thing that what seems to be showing, I bet the biggest problem is this guy probably didnt own the ring, the ring sold, and he took a profit for it, and paid out someone for it...of course now he cant get the money back as it was probably a consignment of some form. And does not have the cash to do a refund let alone sit on such a transaction to try to sell again.


First, On Ebay, there are some wonderful people who I have been doing business with for years (buying and selling alike), most of them are upstanding and easy to identify as upstanding good business people, polite, respectful, and win win situations an all accounts.

However, there are also a some real bottom feeders, here are a few lessons to know about bottom feeders on Ebay and how to deal with them, buyers and sellers alike. Keep in mind this is only for dealing with a compleat bottom feeder and not a normal good person.

1. Give them the benifit of the doubt first...but just once. If they are obviosly a bottom feeder. Go to step two.

2. Dont give them an inch, untill the problem is solved.
In my expereince rednecks and bottom feeders tell some fabulose stories and lies about how great and wonderful they are...Anyone with at least a high school education can usualy see though the BS. Dont let this happen, they are trying to buy time. Generaly every time they open there mouth more dirt starts falling into the grave. Let them bury them selves a bit, but with evidence. keep in mind they will dodge the real matter at hand always.

3. Use what they have said, use all the info against them. make sure to print things out, and file it if they are a big problem. This will be important later for the police or FBI or your lawer durring the case. They need to know what was going on at first so they can see what has changed. DOCUMENT EVERYTHING
One of the best things anyone can learn is this
ALWAYS TELL THE TRUTH! its the easiest thing to remember!...becuase its what actualy happend!
That little bit of info will can make peoples lives so much better.

4. If all reasonable, first polite, and then hard noseing attempts have failed...take the approprate legal action


This obviously is not needed for all Ebay things thank goodness, but for the few problem sellers out there, its a way to get things taken care of. 9 times out of 10 when someone is reminded casualy that mail fraud is a federal crime...I usualy get my money back or the item shows up real quick!
Likewise some of my customers never get there things...thats what insuance on mail is for...or in the case of a $25 ring...I just send another one.

In summery, you are going to have to go after this guy now to get a resolve taken care of, no matter how many posts are made it is not going to change this person....they wont just "come too" or "do whats reasonable" your dealing with a rather un-pleasant psycological make up of a type of person that should not be allowed to do business. No matter how many posts are made, it is not going to help...you have to treat him like an animal, you are going to have to be blunt, and you are going to have to hard nose him with the law untill a resolve can be made...this is why we have fair judges and a legal system in this country. Its unfortunate that its going to have to come to that.

 

[diamond4all]

People.
Congratulation! You have succeeded to blow my top off and reveal my best card.
This will be my last posting on this forum.
The following is a sample of you guys jumping to conclusions without reading the details carefully, as I said: a modern day cross burning and lynch parties forum:
All items on www.RomancingTheStone.com are for a catalogue view only. NO ONE BUYS FROM THIS SITE! THIS IS NOT AN ECOMMERCE SITE- WE DO NOT SELL DIRECT TO THE PUBLIC EVEN ON EBAY - ALL BY SELLERS ASSISTENTS.
WE DO NOT HAVE most of them in stock and as I said: Our records shows that WE DIDN'T have nor have now this size diamonds. That item was posted last year and it is in the Israel office. We can get ANY diamond a customer need at ANY size shape and color. BUT we don't have it in the NY office. Pyramid - read my note : "we did not have in our NYC office" --- It says clearly NYC Office!!!
The only items in stock are ONLY items for the eBay listing and even them sometimes are coming from other offices.
And as for a proof that this is NOT our diamonds: I didn't want to say anything and I actually denied it before when asked by one of your members (as per advise of a consul)- wanted to prove my point in court and in flying colors:
You bunch of idiots, Do you think I will stand here and ask you to bring on all the Media and Authorities if we didn't have ALL diamonds (Carat and above) we cut marked with "RTS" on the girdle by laser?
Get a life.

 

[M-16]

Hi Mr. Emslie

Being a Designer of fine Jewelry and an educated, trustfully jeweler. How much would you sell me a ring as close as the one she got based on the sizes, color and grades found by Marty Haske?
Will you take C.C.?
Thanks
M-16