pqcollectibles
Ideal_Rock
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- Feb 22, 2003
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- 3,441
E-bay nightmare...any advice???
- Thread starter dublingirl
- Start date
- Status
pqcollectibles
Ideal_Rock
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- Feb 22, 2003
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- 3,441
phoenixgirl
Ideal_Rock
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- Mar 20, 2003
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"Never had this exact problem," therefore the employees could not be culpable of any wrongdoing? What were the other problems you had with your employees? This guy is so ridiculous, it seems pointless to even respond. I just wonder if he truly thinks he is making a good argument. Mud-slinging, equivocating, vacillating . . . this guy could give my tenth graders a run for their excuse-making/buck-passing skills.
If DublinGirl doesn't get her money back, then I do truly feel sorry for her. I know that I don't have 9K to just flush down the toilet. I guess the question is: how much is 9K worth to David? From his implication that we are all jealous of his success (and its further suggestion that he values money above all else, because he certainly doesn't appear to have anything else worth envying), I would guess very much. If he believed he had a soul, I'd bet he'd sell it for 9K.
I certainly do not know all the facts in the case, and I concede that it is possible that the seller sent out the correct ring. However, David's antics, insults, and logical fallacies (all in an attempt to prove why he is right without ever having examined the ring himself or admitting to the possibility that a mistake could have been made) make me fairly certain that the culprit is the cry-baby.
Things like this do have a way of catching up with a person. Maybe David won't truly look at himself until on his death bed, but I can bet you that at that moment, he will remember his avarice, his ill-will, and his lack of scruples. Perhaps there is some irony in an ex-Christian-fundamentalist agnostic recommending this to an non-religious Jew, but I recommend Dickens' "A Christmas Story" for snapping yourself out of the path you're taking.
If DublinGirl doesn't get her money back, then I do truly feel sorry for her. I know that I don't have 9K to just flush down the toilet. I guess the question is: how much is 9K worth to David? From his implication that we are all jealous of his success (and its further suggestion that he values money above all else, because he certainly doesn't appear to have anything else worth envying), I would guess very much. If he believed he had a soul, I'd bet he'd sell it for 9K.
I certainly do not know all the facts in the case, and I concede that it is possible that the seller sent out the correct ring. However, David's antics, insults, and logical fallacies (all in an attempt to prove why he is right without ever having examined the ring himself or admitting to the possibility that a mistake could have been made) make me fairly certain that the culprit is the cry-baby.
Things like this do have a way of catching up with a person. Maybe David won't truly look at himself until on his death bed, but I can bet you that at that moment, he will remember his avarice, his ill-will, and his lack of scruples. Perhaps there is some irony in an ex-Christian-fundamentalist agnostic recommending this to an non-religious Jew, but I recommend Dickens' "A Christmas Story" for snapping yourself out of the path you're taking.
Uncle Marty
Rough_Rock
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2003
- Messages
- 75
strmrdr
Super_Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2003
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- 23,295
fwiw this is who gal appears to be.
I could be wrong.
The cert format is correct.
I found it on an ebay listing and cut the bottom off the image.
I wonder what they would have to say about what this guy is up too.
edit to add > the cert I posted part of is as far as I know not associated with diamond4all or his sales.
It is posted just to povide contact information.
I emailed them a link to this thread.
I could be wrong.
The cert format is correct.
I found it on an ebay listing and cut the bottom off the image.
I wonder what they would have to say about what this guy is up too.
edit to add > the cert I posted part of is as far as I know not associated with diamond4all or his sales.
It is posted just to povide contact information.
I emailed them a link to this thread.
Uncle Marty
Rough_Rock
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2003
- Messages
- 75
STRMRDR et al,
Is the appraisal signed. Can you read the signature. Can you contact GAL and find out who signed the legal document ?
Uncle Marty of course
The cert format is correct.
I found it on an ebay listing and cut the bottom off the image.
I wonder what they would have to say about what this guy is up too.
edit to add > the cert I posted part of is as far as I know not associated with diamond4all or his sales.
It is posted just to povide contact information.
I emailed them a link to this thread.
----------------[/quote]
Is the appraisal signed. Can you read the signature. Can you contact GAL and find out who signed the legal document ?
Uncle Marty of course
The cert format is correct.
I found it on an ebay listing and cut the bottom off the image.
I wonder what they would have to say about what this guy is up too.
edit to add > the cert I posted part of is as far as I know not associated with diamond4all or his sales.
It is posted just to povide contact information.
I emailed them a link to this thread.
----------------[/quote]
strmrdr
Super_Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2003
- Messages
- 23,295
Uncle Marty,
The report listed for the auction She "won" is here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2683501312
I wont have time to follow up any on it for a while.
I did however e-mail them a link to this thread.
The report listed for the auction She "won" is here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2683501312
I wont have time to follow up any on it for a while.
I did however e-mail them a link to this thread.
Mara
Super_Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2002
- Messages
- 31,003
Yes, I can explain. "Chieshy" as the seller is an eBay trading assistant. They basically act as the middleman between Romancing the Stone and the eBay customer. They take the item from RTS, sell it for them (incurring all eBay costs, fees etc) and then take a % from the final sale usually, for their services.
Note the 'have old unwanted items to sell' in large font on the auction pages, this person sells many things for many people, and RTS does not sell directly on eBay. That may also make the whole 'refund' thing a little tricky as who gives the refund? Chieshy or RTS and how to pursue etc.
Netnut
Rough_Rock
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2004
- Messages
- 3
Uncle Marty,
"GAL" laboratories web page is here: http://www.gemlab.com/page5.html
and the signature is unreadable I can guess it is "BGF"
"chieshy" aka Nancy Z DeLaPena eBay member since Mar-9-2001. Her phone # first 718-854-7363, second 609-344-3887. Located in Brooklyn, NY.
"chieshy" sells other jewelry aswell here: http://shop.vendio.com/chieshy/category/7480/
Please note at the very bottom is a 4.04 Lucida style ring for $15999.00
http://shop.vendio.com/chieshy/item/629011931/index.html is the actual listed item. They reworded the "IMPORTANT FINE PRINTS!"
On eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=42948&item=2688253186 the same ring is "only" $9599.00 and a revised "IMPORTANT FINE PRINT"
(Above links exist as of today)
IMO here is a giveaway: "Honesty is ZChest.com policy"
Honest people don't have to advertise they are honest, they just are!!!
David
"concentrate on the cold facts." Why don't you recall all your sold and consigned merchandise for a 110% verification against the certs??? MAybe you are scammed too!
"The office is run by the same employees since we opened and we NEVER had this exact problem, " You never heard of people turn 180 degree?
"GAL" laboratories web page is here: http://www.gemlab.com/page5.html
and the signature is unreadable I can guess it is "BGF"
"chieshy" aka Nancy Z DeLaPena eBay member since Mar-9-2001. Her phone # first 718-854-7363, second 609-344-3887. Located in Brooklyn, NY.
"chieshy" sells other jewelry aswell here: http://shop.vendio.com/chieshy/category/7480/
Please note at the very bottom is a 4.04 Lucida style ring for $15999.00
http://shop.vendio.com/chieshy/item/629011931/index.html is the actual listed item. They reworded the "IMPORTANT FINE PRINTS!"
On eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=42948&item=2688253186 the same ring is "only" $9599.00 and a revised "IMPORTANT FINE PRINT"
(Above links exist as of today)
IMO here is a giveaway: "Honesty is ZChest.com policy"
Honest people don't have to advertise they are honest, they just are!!!
David
"concentrate on the cold facts." Why don't you recall all your sold and consigned merchandise for a 110% verification against the certs??? MAybe you are scammed too!
"The office is run by the same employees since we opened and we NEVER had this exact problem, " You never heard of people turn 180 degree?
Uncle Marty
Rough_Rock
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2003
- Messages
- 75
Netnut et al,
I just tried to follow your thread of the below message. I do not know where the name
Nancy Z Del La Pena comes from but I did a reverse check on Google by checking out the telephone number (718-854-7363). That telephone number belongs to Jesse Wells, (71
854-7363, 1126 39th St, Brooklyn, NY 11218. I have no idea who Nancy is nor do I know Jesse Wells.
I did the same research for the other telephone number (6093443887).
That belongs to Nancy De La Pena, (609) 344-3887, 1 N Bartram Ave, Atlantic City, NJ 08401
I did as you suggested and looked at the 4.04 Lucida Diamond on that page and lo and behold the sample GAL appraisal appeared which is the same appraisal that was used as a sample to convince Dublin Girl to buy the ring in question.
Obviously to me that the grading certificate shown on this website you brought to my attention
http://shop.vendio.com/chieshy/category/7480/
is not for the Diamond ring placed for sale.
I think it is time that the above information should be passed on to the Attorney Generals for all the states involved.
I am not a lawyer but I know there are lawyers on this website and they should advise all those who have been defrauded of their recourse.
For this reason I have decided to remove my sales from e-Bay Auctions.I had 2 very successful auction websites on e-Bay with 100%satisfaction.
I too was satisfied with my sales.
I have hired 2 web designers to recreate websites for us so that our auctions will not be thought of as one of the bunch on e-Bay. My Grandpa who raised me always told me never to stay with people who are thought of badly. You are judged by the company you keep.
Uncle Marty of course
I just tried to follow your thread of the below message. I do not know where the name
Nancy Z Del La Pena comes from but I did a reverse check on Google by checking out the telephone number (718-854-7363). That telephone number belongs to Jesse Wells, (71
854-7363, 1126 39th St, Brooklyn, NY 11218. I have no idea who Nancy is nor do I know Jesse Wells. I did the same research for the other telephone number (6093443887).
That belongs to Nancy De La Pena, (609) 344-3887, 1 N Bartram Ave, Atlantic City, NJ 08401
I did as you suggested and looked at the 4.04 Lucida Diamond on that page and lo and behold the sample GAL appraisal appeared which is the same appraisal that was used as a sample to convince Dublin Girl to buy the ring in question.
Obviously to me that the grading certificate shown on this website you brought to my attention
http://shop.vendio.com/chieshy/category/7480/
is not for the Diamond ring placed for sale.
I think it is time that the above information should be passed on to the Attorney Generals for all the states involved.
I am not a lawyer but I know there are lawyers on this website and they should advise all those who have been defrauded of their recourse.
For this reason I have decided to remove my sales from e-Bay Auctions.I had 2 very successful auction websites on e-Bay with 100%satisfaction.
I too was satisfied with my sales.
I have hired 2 web designers to recreate websites for us so that our auctions will not be thought of as one of the bunch on e-Bay. My Grandpa who raised me always told me never to stay with people who are thought of badly. You are judged by the company you keep.
Uncle Marty of course
Uncle Marty, You have been a good guide and teacher to me but here I am disappointed from you.
Many of their auction says the following text, so I don't see why are you all surprised about the certificate being the same all over - IT IS ONLY A SAMPLE!! What's so wrong about that? And she has over 2000 positive feedback!! do any of you know how hard it is to get 2000 positive feedback?
Did you get 2000 good feedbacks? Can we see them?
Looking at you web site: it looks OLD OUTDATED and you are selling junk that you can buy at Macy's for half the price. You don't even have ONE item that is $2K no $3K and no $4k not to mention a $10K items. You are out of you league her!
"We make and sell two type of rings: The pre-manufactured rings which are presented to the bidders with the exact specifications and measurements and will be accompanied by the actual Gemological Lab certificate of appraisal. The advantage of such rings is the ability to be shipped next day (after payment confirmation).
The second type of rings are the type very few sellers on eBay can offer (Must be manufacturers with large stock of stones) and which represent a huge advantage to you as a buyer, because let's say - the stone is beautiful, the price may be also right but the setting is totally off. Or the whole ring is above or below your budget. The solution is simple: We present a ring with a stone together with a sample certificate but you have the option to request other mounting / setting / stone to be used.
Please note:
The auction will declare the stone specification based on the stone of which we have in stock and was dedicated for this ring - it will be set in a mounting chosen after the auction at no extra charge. You, the customer have the advantage of getting this new and custom made ring usually within 10 business days. Unlike most rings sold on eBay (you can tell who is who by monitoring seller items - if the seller has sold the same ring again and again or has ONLY one of each..) this is not a closeout or return - it is made for you!
The certificate we are displaying has a red "SAMPLE" note on it. each certificate has a number that associate with an individual ring. The sample certificate posted on the auction page is to demonstrate how your actual certificate will look.
You will get the promised weight, clarity and color listed on the AUCTION PAGE (remember - the certificate is only a sample), the only thing that actually changes in the certificate is the stone measurements in millimeters which is different (but close) from stone to stone. After the sale we will submit the ring to the G.A.L. Lab and if the weight, clarity or color comes back different than the one promised - we will change the stone and send it back to the lab for appraisal."
What is wrong with this?
ALL other customers are MORE than happy and they give free money away!!
M-16
Many of their auction says the following text, so I don't see why are you all surprised about the certificate being the same all over - IT IS ONLY A SAMPLE!! What's so wrong about that? And she has over 2000 positive feedback!! do any of you know how hard it is to get 2000 positive feedback?
Did you get 2000 good feedbacks? Can we see them?
Looking at you web site: it looks OLD OUTDATED and you are selling junk that you can buy at Macy's for half the price. You don't even have ONE item that is $2K no $3K and no $4k not to mention a $10K items. You are out of you league her!
"We make and sell two type of rings: The pre-manufactured rings which are presented to the bidders with the exact specifications and measurements and will be accompanied by the actual Gemological Lab certificate of appraisal. The advantage of such rings is the ability to be shipped next day (after payment confirmation).
The second type of rings are the type very few sellers on eBay can offer (Must be manufacturers with large stock of stones) and which represent a huge advantage to you as a buyer, because let's say - the stone is beautiful, the price may be also right but the setting is totally off. Or the whole ring is above or below your budget. The solution is simple: We present a ring with a stone together with a sample certificate but you have the option to request other mounting / setting / stone to be used.
Please note:
The auction will declare the stone specification based on the stone of which we have in stock and was dedicated for this ring - it will be set in a mounting chosen after the auction at no extra charge. You, the customer have the advantage of getting this new and custom made ring usually within 10 business days. Unlike most rings sold on eBay (you can tell who is who by monitoring seller items - if the seller has sold the same ring again and again or has ONLY one of each..) this is not a closeout or return - it is made for you!
The certificate we are displaying has a red "SAMPLE" note on it. each certificate has a number that associate with an individual ring. The sample certificate posted on the auction page is to demonstrate how your actual certificate will look.
You will get the promised weight, clarity and color listed on the AUCTION PAGE (remember - the certificate is only a sample), the only thing that actually changes in the certificate is the stone measurements in millimeters which is different (but close) from stone to stone. After the sale we will submit the ring to the G.A.L. Lab and if the weight, clarity or color comes back different than the one promised - we will change the stone and send it back to the lab for appraisal."
What is wrong with this?
ALL other customers are MORE than happy and they give free money away!!
M-16
Netnut
Rough_Rock
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2004
- Messages
- 3
Uncle Marty
Nancy Z DeLaPena name is from "Zaragoza Chest Emporium Antiques" About me page about 1/3 down, click on "Registered Trading Assistant" icon witck takes you to chieshy Contact Information page ( http://contact.ebay.com/ws1/eBayISAPI.dll?ShowMemberToMemberDetails&member=28557991 )
I am not a lowyer eather, sorry!
I am just a Netnut
Nancy Z DeLaPena name is from "Zaragoza Chest Emporium Antiques" About me page about 1/3 down, click on "Registered Trading Assistant" icon witck takes you to chieshy Contact Information page ( http://contact.ebay.com/ws1/eBayISAPI.dll?ShowMemberToMemberDetails&member=28557991 )
I am not a lowyer eather, sorry!
I am just a Netnut
Griffin
Shiny_Rock
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2003
- Messages
- 239
M16, If you will note they DO NOT have thousands of positive feedbacks for thier jewelery. If you look at the auctions they sell $ 2 flea market junk. This is what the feedback is actually for.
If I had an account with thousands of positive feedbacks selling random $5 widgets, I could afford to throw in a five-figure ripoff every once in a while and would still have 99.5% positives.
Trust folks in the business, some of the things this guy has stated ring every alarm bell we have.
BTW - "replacement value" is nowhere near actual value, it's like when you buy a $19.99 set of Taiwan tools and the box is marked "$99.00 Retail Value!!!!". Nobody falls for it. That isn't free money. Try to sell off those tools for a hundred bucks.
The malls sell diamonds and gold at permanent "70% off" sales all the time. Ever heard of 70 percent off of a commodity? How do they do it - we all know. They mark up a $300 ring to "$900 value", then sell it to you for 300 bucks.
That isn't free money either.
"replacement value" is a number that falls into the same mathematical grouping as numbers used in calculating the length of fish caught on previous fishing trips.
If I had an account with thousands of positive feedbacks selling random $5 widgets, I could afford to throw in a five-figure ripoff every once in a while and would still have 99.5% positives.
Trust folks in the business, some of the things this guy has stated ring every alarm bell we have.
BTW - "replacement value" is nowhere near actual value, it's like when you buy a $19.99 set of Taiwan tools and the box is marked "$99.00 Retail Value!!!!". Nobody falls for it. That isn't free money. Try to sell off those tools for a hundred bucks.
The malls sell diamonds and gold at permanent "70% off" sales all the time. Ever heard of 70 percent off of a commodity? How do they do it - we all know. They mark up a $300 ring to "$900 value", then sell it to you for 300 bucks.
That isn't free money either.
"replacement value" is a number that falls into the same mathematical grouping as numbers used in calculating the length of fish caught on previous fishing trips.
Nicrez
Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2004
- Messages
- 3,230
M-16, not sure how familiar you are with purchasing diamonds, but there is one important thing to keep in mind. Diamonds ARE NOT all the SAME! It's not like buying pencils!
Diamonds are so unique that they have different levels of clarity (even with the same grade), different levels of color (even with the same grade), and the weight should be static, once measured within 0.01 difference. Diamonds are created by the pressures and temperatures of the Earth, and have trace elements of non-carbon materials so infantessimal that those small percentages of different minerals can determine the exact mining field they came from whether Canadian, Russian, American, or African. Some diamonds have florescence in varying levels, which is also a uniqueness of the stone, and almost 1/3 of the stones mined have florescence in some quanitiy. Diamonds also have a unique signature that when you shine a laser through them, the signature pattern of the reflection and refraction of light shining through determines the diamond to have a very unique fingerprint, such as by machines like Gemprint. (http://www.gemprint.com/home.htm)
That said, a diamond is not something you buy with a SAMPLE certificate. It is not something that is mass produced. It is created uniquely by factors and events that vary in location, and occurence. So giving that ring to you girl, is a unique statement made that has a very special significance for the uniqueness and beauty of THAT STONE. How dare anyone THINK that a buyer should be satisfied with a SAMPLE certificate, when each gemstone has a different grade of color, clarity and cut that can not be captured. Poor Dublingirl didn't get a deal, as you can plainly see. She got ripped off by a group of people who sell diamonds like they sell pencils.
Imagine shopping for a car on E-Bay and instead of getting a copy of the car's title, you got a SAMPLE to view. They told you mileage was approximately ____, but they could be off by several thousand. The color may be different, so if you wanted white, and they said it was white, you may end up with a tan car. The interior was supposed to be pristine, but you buy it and there may be cigarette burns and ripped leather. They show you a showroom car picture on the site, but that's not what you're getting. So that's OK, right?
Now imagine that this "car" purchase is one of the most sentimental and momentus purchases you are making for SOMEONE ELSE and not for yourself. Sometimes a ring is used as an expression of love, and is so enshrouded in pride and tradition, nervousness, and trust of a retailer who "knows more", that you drop $10K, which is a HELL of A LOT to me! You worked hard for that money, just to have your ring absolutely misrepresented and you got to see a "SAMPLE" of it, and you got such a GREAT deal, that now you are out $10K, your ring is not what you wanted or thought you bought, and your whole experience is so disastrous and tainted that you have to deal with lawyers and several comissions on fraud just to clear your own name of impropriety when you yourself have been so cheated!
To me, this is the lowest a human can get when the dollar becomes so much more important that your honor and your ability to do your job correctly and with some dignity. I have no respect for whoever committed the fraud, but more so for David who allows a SAMPLE certificate for unique items, and doesn't at least offer a customising website with a phone number to call for the individual certificates for each stone if the person is willing. He leaves the buyer in his hands, to trust his integrity to ship the items as they are "declared" on that site, with nothing more than a "FINE PRINT" line of JUNK he doesn't even want to live up to! Shame on you!
Oh and M-16, as for Uncle Marty, no offense, but lay off. His site and the price of items he sells doesn't correlate with his integrity. Look, Chiesy sells pricey items, but sometimes, you can never know what quality you get for high prices, and just because prices are high, doesn't mean the quality of the item and the service is!
Diamonds are so unique that they have different levels of clarity (even with the same grade), different levels of color (even with the same grade), and the weight should be static, once measured within 0.01 difference. Diamonds are created by the pressures and temperatures of the Earth, and have trace elements of non-carbon materials so infantessimal that those small percentages of different minerals can determine the exact mining field they came from whether Canadian, Russian, American, or African. Some diamonds have florescence in varying levels, which is also a uniqueness of the stone, and almost 1/3 of the stones mined have florescence in some quanitiy. Diamonds also have a unique signature that when you shine a laser through them, the signature pattern of the reflection and refraction of light shining through determines the diamond to have a very unique fingerprint, such as by machines like Gemprint. (http://www.gemprint.com/home.htm)
That said, a diamond is not something you buy with a SAMPLE certificate. It is not something that is mass produced. It is created uniquely by factors and events that vary in location, and occurence. So giving that ring to you girl, is a unique statement made that has a very special significance for the uniqueness and beauty of THAT STONE. How dare anyone THINK that a buyer should be satisfied with a SAMPLE certificate, when each gemstone has a different grade of color, clarity and cut that can not be captured. Poor Dublingirl didn't get a deal, as you can plainly see. She got ripped off by a group of people who sell diamonds like they sell pencils.
Imagine shopping for a car on E-Bay and instead of getting a copy of the car's title, you got a SAMPLE to view. They told you mileage was approximately ____, but they could be off by several thousand. The color may be different, so if you wanted white, and they said it was white, you may end up with a tan car. The interior was supposed to be pristine, but you buy it and there may be cigarette burns and ripped leather. They show you a showroom car picture on the site, but that's not what you're getting. So that's OK, right?
Now imagine that this "car" purchase is one of the most sentimental and momentus purchases you are making for SOMEONE ELSE and not for yourself. Sometimes a ring is used as an expression of love, and is so enshrouded in pride and tradition, nervousness, and trust of a retailer who "knows more", that you drop $10K, which is a HELL of A LOT to me! You worked hard for that money, just to have your ring absolutely misrepresented and you got to see a "SAMPLE" of it, and you got such a GREAT deal, that now you are out $10K, your ring is not what you wanted or thought you bought, and your whole experience is so disastrous and tainted that you have to deal with lawyers and several comissions on fraud just to clear your own name of impropriety when you yourself have been so cheated!
To me, this is the lowest a human can get when the dollar becomes so much more important that your honor and your ability to do your job correctly and with some dignity. I have no respect for whoever committed the fraud, but more so for David who allows a SAMPLE certificate for unique items, and doesn't at least offer a customising website with a phone number to call for the individual certificates for each stone if the person is willing. He leaves the buyer in his hands, to trust his integrity to ship the items as they are "declared" on that site, with nothing more than a "FINE PRINT" line of JUNK he doesn't even want to live up to! Shame on you!
Oh and M-16, as for Uncle Marty, no offense, but lay off. His site and the price of items he sells doesn't correlate with his integrity. Look, Chiesy sells pricey items, but sometimes, you can never know what quality you get for high prices, and just because prices are high, doesn't mean the quality of the item and the service is!
So far everyone has talked about the buyers "friend" switching the stones prior to it being appraised by Marty. What about the middleman (Chieshy) who sold this item on ebay? Did the item ship from the middleman? If so how long was the ring in their possesion? RTS is claiming that the stones do not match their records....Could the ebay seller have "tampered" with the ring prior to shipping it to the buyer?
Sorry if this is a repost, but I didnt have enough time to read through all of the posts.
Sorry if this is a repost, but I didnt have enough time to read through all of the posts.
Uncle Marty
Rough_Rock
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2003
- Messages
- 75
M16 et al,
I understand your confusion.
As Nicrez explained so eloquently.
These sellers use the same "Sample" appraisal.
The information is copied from this same appraisal and placed in the body of their explanation of what is the Diamond ring they are selling.
If these sellers said it was just a sample appraisal and did not quote the size of the Diamonds and the value placed on the "Sample" as THEIR DIAMOND ring we would all accept what they are saying. But in Fact they are quoting the "Sample" as their diamonds in their rings.
In my opinion this is almost impossible. When I wanted to sell an expensive item on E-bay I showed a grading report which did not have an appraised value. True I sold less on e-bay because consumers where looking for the inflated values of appraisers who selected the values by using the old method. They placed a donkey picture on the wall and threw darts at the numbers.
In truth I do not now believe these misleading auctions are the problem of the appraisal labs because they have no control how their documents are being used. BUT I do believe the sellers such as "Cheisy" or David should know they are using "Sample" appraisals for their rings and not documents that reflect what THEY are selling.
In the case of David he claims he is a Diamond Expert. He was raised by a influential family in the jewelry business. I was raised by a simple tailor and a diamond setter. He knows more about Diamonds than any of us. Therefore he must be aware that the document he used is not his ring.
It is a document that has been passed around is being used by others wanting to make sales at the expense of people who do not do their homework.
Uncle Marty
I understand your confusion.
As Nicrez explained so eloquently.
These sellers use the same "Sample" appraisal.
The information is copied from this same appraisal and placed in the body of their explanation of what is the Diamond ring they are selling.
If these sellers said it was just a sample appraisal and did not quote the size of the Diamonds and the value placed on the "Sample" as THEIR DIAMOND ring we would all accept what they are saying. But in Fact they are quoting the "Sample" as their diamonds in their rings.
In my opinion this is almost impossible. When I wanted to sell an expensive item on E-bay I showed a grading report which did not have an appraised value. True I sold less on e-bay because consumers where looking for the inflated values of appraisers who selected the values by using the old method. They placed a donkey picture on the wall and threw darts at the numbers.
In truth I do not now believe these misleading auctions are the problem of the appraisal labs because they have no control how their documents are being used. BUT I do believe the sellers such as "Cheisy" or David should know they are using "Sample" appraisals for their rings and not documents that reflect what THEY are selling.
In the case of David he claims he is a Diamond Expert. He was raised by a influential family in the jewelry business. I was raised by a simple tailor and a diamond setter. He knows more about Diamonds than any of us. Therefore he must be aware that the document he used is not his ring.
It is a document that has been passed around is being used by others wanting to make sales at the expense of people who do not do their homework.
Uncle Marty
Hi again.
Uncle Marty: thanks again for taking the time to guide and explain this situation. I appreciate and respect it!
Griffin : As for this cheesy "Chiesy": Did you ever sold on ebay? My mother selles stuff she collects from garage sales on sundays and let me tell you:
1. It is as hard to deal with a person who bought a $2.00 item as it is with $2000.00 and even harder, The person who bought a $2000.00 item knows what to expect (most of the time..) but the $2.00 item people expect to get the deal of the century and if they don't - you got a negative feedback. They don't even contact you for a refund or explanation - BOOM - negative.
2. Do you know that out of millions of sellers on eBay only 0.01% has over 2000 100% feedback? cheesy "Chiesy" is one of them and it means to me more than a guy who has 100 98% positive and sold only ring. this is a monument to her honesty, integrity and SUPER HUMAN CUSTOMER SERVICE!!
3. The fact that she got over 2000 positive feedbacks means that she is one super careful business woman.I am sure she checked this jewelry company very well and sold a few of their rings before this unfortunate incident.
Nicrez: With all your car colors. Do you know that JVC itself will allow discrepancy of one color, one clarity grade and 0.05 points between what you were sold to what was promised to you? It is a matter of THOUSANDS of dollars! this is not a science and she didn't promised a GIA certificate with it!
I don't know much about diamonds but from my search during the last week - I have been told that even IN THE TRADE! between dealers a stone with the same specifications will have up to 40% price difference if the certificate was issue by GIA (#1) EGL -USA (#2) EGL- Europe (#3) or GAL / UGL / IGI or your local appraiser.
So yes! even according to JVC you can order white and get a tan car.
BTW: I know that Zales, and the HSN - a billion dollars companies are nothing much to you guys (actually, it looks like the bigger they are - the more successful they are - the more you hate them...I saw some bad rap on BlueNile.com or Diamond.com in this forum...) but check it out - (I did) GAL are one of their aproved Gemological Labs and they are issuing certificates for them. To me it says something about the integrity of GAL unless you think you are all better than Zales / HSN Quality control department... My friend sister works for the HSN and quality control id their LARGEST department!!!!
Do you think they will send even ONE certificate with their products if GAL was questionable?
M-16
Uncle Marty: thanks again for taking the time to guide and explain this situation. I appreciate and respect it!
Griffin : As for this cheesy "Chiesy": Did you ever sold on ebay? My mother selles stuff she collects from garage sales on sundays and let me tell you:
1. It is as hard to deal with a person who bought a $2.00 item as it is with $2000.00 and even harder, The person who bought a $2000.00 item knows what to expect (most of the time..) but the $2.00 item people expect to get the deal of the century and if they don't - you got a negative feedback. They don't even contact you for a refund or explanation - BOOM - negative.
2. Do you know that out of millions of sellers on eBay only 0.01% has over 2000 100% feedback? cheesy "Chiesy" is one of them and it means to me more than a guy who has 100 98% positive and sold only ring. this is a monument to her honesty, integrity and SUPER HUMAN CUSTOMER SERVICE!!
3. The fact that she got over 2000 positive feedbacks means that she is one super careful business woman.I am sure she checked this jewelry company very well and sold a few of their rings before this unfortunate incident.
Nicrez: With all your car colors. Do you know that JVC itself will allow discrepancy of one color, one clarity grade and 0.05 points between what you were sold to what was promised to you? It is a matter of THOUSANDS of dollars! this is not a science and she didn't promised a GIA certificate with it!
I don't know much about diamonds but from my search during the last week - I have been told that even IN THE TRADE! between dealers a stone with the same specifications will have up to 40% price difference if the certificate was issue by GIA (#1) EGL -USA (#2) EGL- Europe (#3) or GAL / UGL / IGI or your local appraiser.
So yes! even according to JVC you can order white and get a tan car.
BTW: I know that Zales, and the HSN - a billion dollars companies are nothing much to you guys (actually, it looks like the bigger they are - the more successful they are - the more you hate them...I saw some bad rap on BlueNile.com or Diamond.com in this forum...) but check it out - (I did) GAL are one of their aproved Gemological Labs and they are issuing certificates for them. To me it says something about the integrity of GAL unless you think you are all better than Zales / HSN Quality control department... My friend sister works for the HSN and quality control id their LARGEST department!!!!
Do you think they will send even ONE certificate with their products if GAL was questionable?
M-16
mike04456
Brilliant_Rock
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2002
- Messages
- 1,441
M-16, without getting into an argument about what labs are reliable, I will just say that you have a great deal to learn about the diamond business. It does not function like any other industry, and you cannot make assumptions about it based on your experience in the general consumer market. It is a very insular world with a lot of customs and traditions that don't make any sense until you've been doing this a few years.
Believe it or not, some labs get business precisely because their standards are lax compared to other labs. This is why a diamond with a GIA or AGS report will trade at a far higher price than one with the same specs from a "no-name" lab.
Big and successful does not necessarily equate to high quality or reliable quality control in this business. Sometimes it's just the opposite.
Believe it or not, some labs get business precisely because their standards are lax compared to other labs. This is why a diamond with a GIA or AGS report will trade at a far higher price than one with the same specs from a "no-name" lab.
Big and successful does not necessarily equate to high quality or reliable quality control in this business. Sometimes it's just the opposite.
DavidEmslie
Shiny_Rock
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2004
- Messages
- 147
lawgem is correct, besides, it does not matter how many billions of dollars in "purchasing power" a company has. It is imposible to put the top %5 of stones/jewelry in every store in America. The numbers just dont work.
Quality is quality and it is limmited in avalibity. Its like hamburgers, sit down restraunts to fast food are two different ball games, places like zales, HSN ect have a much lower quality than that of high end designers and companies that offer qualtiy like Tiffanys, John Atencio, Jeff Cooper, Tacori, ect, ect.
Side by side the difference is more than obviouse
Quality is quality and it is limmited in avalibity. Its like hamburgers, sit down restraunts to fast food are two different ball games, places like zales, HSN ect have a much lower quality than that of high end designers and companies that offer qualtiy like Tiffanys, John Atencio, Jeff Cooper, Tacori, ect, ect.
Side by side the difference is more than obviouse
Dear DavidEmslie: I understand and agree, but thank god for that, because yes, we are a capitalist nation but who / how many people can afford buying form Tiffany (and the others you have mentioned) at 2-3 times the Rappoport while HSN, Zales and more are helping small people like me. Does anyone here think Tiffany and the other big fat name retailers will ever let an average guy put his hand on a FULL CARAT at Rappoport MINUS 63% (!!!) like these guys on your hated eBay: 2696854343
What is the trick there? and look at their feedback...
M-16
What is the trick there? and look at their feedback...
M-16
diamonds4all states that he's concerned he may be getting something other than the original ring he sent as a return.
some questions for d4all:
1) does your appraiser not do an inclusions mapping on his appraisals?
2) how do you NORMALLY determine whether a returned item is the bona fide item? Surely you've been protecting yourself in the past?
3) how do you explain the discrepancy on your "sample" certificate? No 1.25 carat diamond is going to have a 6.4 mm diameter. SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE made a mistake BEFORE the ring was sent to dublingirl. It is logical to assume that the missing carat weight is NOT the doing of dublingirl or "friend," but is an error on your or your employee's part. Look at the logic behind my statement before you refute please: Your certificate has an incongruity that you have not explained. For dublingirl (or friend) to commit the fraud you fear, and in the short timespan in which it would have occurred, some forethought and planning would have been required. Yet, how could they scheme to purchase a ring from you with a clerical/administrative/appraising error? I assume this is a once-in-a-lifetime occurrence. You have said this is a first for you...
4) do you not conclude (as I have) that it is unlikely that dublingirl or friend could have concocted (in advance) a scheme and have you COINCIDENTALLY send a ring with an erroneous certificate that they could exploit? Or that it would take a really dubious mind to concoct the scheme on such short notice AFTER receiving the incongruous ring/certificate combo?
5) your assertion that "your shop has never had any diamonds of this size" lacks credibility, since you apparently believed you had a 1.25 carat diamond with a 6.4mm diameter. If your certificate can be mistaken, so can your inventory logs.
Perhaps this entire episode is a case of a mistake in the application of a "measurement to carat weight" formula? It appears someone mis-entered a diameter into a formula and came up with 1.25 carats for a diamond (or pair of diamonds) that really weighed in the ballpark of a carat each? You (innocently) marketed the ring based on the incorrectly calculated value. dublingirl bought the ring based on the same premise, and was disappointed when a second set of eyes (Marty H's) caught the error.
Now dublingirl suspects you of intentionally misleading her. And you suspect (in advance) dublingirl of trying to gyp you by returning an altered ring.
Personally, I suspect neither of you of malicious intent. I suspect you merely of the "crime" of overconfidence in your certificate. It is clearly wrong on its face!
I suggest you refund dublingirl's money without further hesitation. I bet the ring you get back will have the (original) diamonds... with 6.4mm diameters. As the businessman (remember, you solicited this transaction) I suggest you chalk this one up to lack of vigilance and/or proper safeguards in your processes.
To continue to be stubborn in the name of “protecting yourself” is bordering on obstinate, if you ask me. The convergence of coincidences necessary for dublingirl to rip you off (her nefarious scheme bolstered by your rare error) is unlikely to have occurred in this lifetime…
some questions for d4all:
1) does your appraiser not do an inclusions mapping on his appraisals?
2) how do you NORMALLY determine whether a returned item is the bona fide item? Surely you've been protecting yourself in the past?
3) how do you explain the discrepancy on your "sample" certificate? No 1.25 carat diamond is going to have a 6.4 mm diameter. SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE made a mistake BEFORE the ring was sent to dublingirl. It is logical to assume that the missing carat weight is NOT the doing of dublingirl or "friend," but is an error on your or your employee's part. Look at the logic behind my statement before you refute please: Your certificate has an incongruity that you have not explained. For dublingirl (or friend) to commit the fraud you fear, and in the short timespan in which it would have occurred, some forethought and planning would have been required. Yet, how could they scheme to purchase a ring from you with a clerical/administrative/appraising error? I assume this is a once-in-a-lifetime occurrence. You have said this is a first for you...
4) do you not conclude (as I have) that it is unlikely that dublingirl or friend could have concocted (in advance) a scheme and have you COINCIDENTALLY send a ring with an erroneous certificate that they could exploit? Or that it would take a really dubious mind to concoct the scheme on such short notice AFTER receiving the incongruous ring/certificate combo?
5) your assertion that "your shop has never had any diamonds of this size" lacks credibility, since you apparently believed you had a 1.25 carat diamond with a 6.4mm diameter. If your certificate can be mistaken, so can your inventory logs.
Perhaps this entire episode is a case of a mistake in the application of a "measurement to carat weight" formula? It appears someone mis-entered a diameter into a formula and came up with 1.25 carats for a diamond (or pair of diamonds) that really weighed in the ballpark of a carat each? You (innocently) marketed the ring based on the incorrectly calculated value. dublingirl bought the ring based on the same premise, and was disappointed when a second set of eyes (Marty H's) caught the error.
Now dublingirl suspects you of intentionally misleading her. And you suspect (in advance) dublingirl of trying to gyp you by returning an altered ring.
Personally, I suspect neither of you of malicious intent. I suspect you merely of the "crime" of overconfidence in your certificate. It is clearly wrong on its face!
I suggest you refund dublingirl's money without further hesitation. I bet the ring you get back will have the (original) diamonds... with 6.4mm diameters. As the businessman (remember, you solicited this transaction) I suggest you chalk this one up to lack of vigilance and/or proper safeguards in your processes.
To continue to be stubborn in the name of “protecting yourself” is bordering on obstinate, if you ask me. The convergence of coincidences necessary for dublingirl to rip you off (her nefarious scheme bolstered by your rare error) is unlikely to have occurred in this lifetime…
mike04456
Brilliant_Rock
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2002
- Messages
- 1,441
What's the trick? That diamond is an absolute dog based on its proportions (69% depth and under 6mm avg. diameter). It's being sold at 63% back because that's what it's worth. You won't find a stone like that at Tiffany or another high-end retailer because a) it has half the brilliance of a well-cut diamond, and b) it will look noticeably smaller than its carat weight, probably equivalent to a well-cut 85 pointer.
I'll repeat what I said before--you have a great deal to learn about diamonds.
LawGem (or is it LowGem): "I'll repeat what I said before--you have a great deal to learn about diamonds." - I more than agree with you. As a matter of fact - I'll never know what you guys already forgot about diamonds!
However, It's either because I am dumb or there is a trick here - there is no way in hell that any retail store in the world will be able to sell 63% bellow Rap. Do you have ANY IDEA how high is the overhead of a jewelry store? (uncle Marty - can I get some help in here?) even at 69% depth and under 6mm avg. diameter he (2696854343)
must get it for 70% - 80% below the Rap to sell it at 63% bellow and stay in business.
LowGem: This is the 2nd time I am asking you direct and this time please stop giving us all your theoretical assessments which are worthless unless you can back them up - I will pay you not 63% below but 50% below if you can get me the same (or very close) diamond as 2696854343 even at 69% depth and under 6mm avg. diameter
Put Up or shut up!
I am sick and tired from all these guys here who put down these companies, small and large who are trying to do good by the small people! No more talking and teaching us - like all these college professors who teaches business but you let them out of the ivory tower and they can't run a small town grocery store!
Do you know what is going out there? do you know that De Beers did release rough for 4 months already(actually - realist 45% of the normal shipments)? Get out there - to prove that you can deliver - not just sitting at home, having nothing to do and bad mouthing every good American company out there!
I'll say it publicly - Give me your attorney's name. I will deposit with him the $19.000 I saved in 10 years to buy my truck. You deposit only $1000.00.
If you can get me 10 diamonds like that - you take the $19.000.00 if you can't - I take only $1000.00 from you for disgusting us with your information.
Put your money were your mouth is or stop this bull!
WHO IN THE WORLD CAN GET SOMETHING LIKE 2696854343 for that price???????
I am starting to get sick from some of the members here!
However, It's either because I am dumb or there is a trick here - there is no way in hell that any retail store in the world will be able to sell 63% bellow Rap. Do you have ANY IDEA how high is the overhead of a jewelry store? (uncle Marty - can I get some help in here?) even at 69% depth and under 6mm avg. diameter he (2696854343)
must get it for 70% - 80% below the Rap to sell it at 63% bellow and stay in business.
LowGem: This is the 2nd time I am asking you direct and this time please stop giving us all your theoretical assessments which are worthless unless you can back them up - I will pay you not 63% below but 50% below if you can get me the same (or very close) diamond as 2696854343 even at 69% depth and under 6mm avg. diameter
Put Up or shut up!
I am sick and tired from all these guys here who put down these companies, small and large who are trying to do good by the small people! No more talking and teaching us - like all these college professors who teaches business but you let them out of the ivory tower and they can't run a small town grocery store!
Do you know what is going out there? do you know that De Beers did release rough for 4 months already(actually - realist 45% of the normal shipments)? Get out there - to prove that you can deliver - not just sitting at home, having nothing to do and bad mouthing every good American company out there!
I'll say it publicly - Give me your attorney's name. I will deposit with him the $19.000 I saved in 10 years to buy my truck. You deposit only $1000.00.
If you can get me 10 diamonds like that - you take the $19.000.00 if you can't - I take only $1000.00 from you for disgusting us with your information.
Put your money were your mouth is or stop this bull!
WHO IN THE WORLD CAN GET SOMETHING LIKE 2696854343 for that price???????
I am starting to get sick from some of the members here!
strmrdr
Super_Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2003
- Messages
- 23,295
joeysdad
Rough_Rock
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2004
- Messages
- 12
Demelza
Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2004
- Messages
- 2,327
I suspect M-16 and diamonds4all are the same person. M-16 appeared on the scene just as diamonds4all bowed out. They both write in a manner that is oddly confusing and make very similar sorts of grammatical errors. And their respective attitudes are similarly off-putting. If I'm wrong, I apologize, but it would appear that something fishy is going on here.
strmrdr: Very mature!!!
Can you justify LowGem? Or you are his friend as well?
Have you noticed that you all recommending only each other?
Can you prove me wrong - smart guy?
It is very easy to be loaded air bag as you are. It is much harder to stop playing with yourself and PROVE TO ALL THAT YOU CAN GET THESE DIAMONDS!!!! not just talk about them!!!
As for D4All: Now that you mention it: Have you notice what this LowGem said: a 5.97 X 4.16 will look like 0.85 carat??
Now this poor D4All diamonds at 6.40 X 4.20 looks MUCH more closer to the 1.25 carat he said..ESPECIALY if you learn how this formula works...
I AM A DUMB ASS!
You know why? Because I can't understand how Marty Haske the expert graded D4ALL's 6.40 X 4.20 as LESS THAN a CARAT while GIA recorded a 1.01 at 5.97 X 4.16 Do you get my drift guys?? I don't know SH*T about diamond but I sure know BULLSH*T when I see one and smell a rut when there is one around.
Read my lips again:
1. Marty Haske the expert graded D4ALL's 6.40 X 4.20 as LESS THAN a CARAT while GIA measured a 5.97 X 4.16 at 1.01 and they put it on the scale.........
2. WHO IN THE WORLD CAN GET SOMETHING LIKE 2696854343 for 70% - 80% bellow Rap? Until you show me you can do it - You are a hot air bag who can only talk but know SH*T about diamonds!
I don't need to know diamonds to see the facts - look at the facts!!!
Can you justify LowGem? Or you are his friend as well?
Have you noticed that you all recommending only each other?
Can you prove me wrong - smart guy?
It is very easy to be loaded air bag as you are. It is much harder to stop playing with yourself and PROVE TO ALL THAT YOU CAN GET THESE DIAMONDS!!!! not just talk about them!!!
As for D4All: Now that you mention it: Have you notice what this LowGem said: a 5.97 X 4.16 will look like 0.85 carat??
Now this poor D4All diamonds at 6.40 X 4.20 looks MUCH more closer to the 1.25 carat he said..ESPECIALY if you learn how this formula works...
I AM A DUMB ASS!
You know why? Because I can't understand how Marty Haske the expert graded D4ALL's 6.40 X 4.20 as LESS THAN a CARAT while GIA recorded a 1.01 at 5.97 X 4.16 Do you get my drift guys?? I don't know SH*T about diamond but I sure know BULLSH*T when I see one and smell a rut when there is one around.
Read my lips again:
1. Marty Haske the expert graded D4ALL's 6.40 X 4.20 as LESS THAN a CARAT while GIA measured a 5.97 X 4.16 at 1.01 and they put it on the scale.........
2. WHO IN THE WORLD CAN GET SOMETHING LIKE 2696854343 for 70% - 80% bellow Rap? Until you show me you can do it - You are a hot air bag who can only talk but know SH*T about diamonds!
I don't need to know diamonds to see the facts - look at the facts!!!
Demelza: Apology accepted.
joeysdad: You are as bright as the image you have above your name - I said: A Marine honor - not that I am a marine (I wish I was!). They are known to have it (even more than us..)
Now, instead of getting personal (which is an easy way out) just explain and answer me questions.
I am not ashamed to admit when I am wrong nor thank whoever gave me a valuable lesson. But NEVER, EVER BULLSH*T ME!!
I hate Hippocrates and spineless as*holes hiding behind the secrecy of on line forum (like LowGem calling himself Ben Affleck..)
joeysdad: You are as bright as the image you have above your name - I said: A Marine honor - not that I am a marine (I wish I was!). They are known to have it (even more than us..)
Now, instead of getting personal (which is an easy way out) just explain and answer me questions.
I am not ashamed to admit when I am wrong nor thank whoever gave me a valuable lesson. But NEVER, EVER BULLSH*T ME!!
I hate Hippocrates and spineless as*holes hiding behind the secrecy of on line forum (like LowGem calling himself Ben Affleck..)
- Status
Past, Present, Future: The Meaning of Three-Stone Engagement Rings
Past, Present, Future: The Meaning of Three-Stone Engagement Rings - 04/14
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