E-bay nightmare...any advice???

[phoenixgirl]

----------------
Either you are all jewelers here or just hate people who are successful. ----------------

It's true, I just hope that one day I have your type of success . . .

successfully ruining the month of someone who purchased from me in good faith
successfully making myself look like an ass by dodging direct questions with circular reasoning and innuendos
successfully giving myself such negative press that dozens, if not hundreds, of people are persuaded never to purchase from me
successfully drawing the attention of watch-dog organizations and government agencies to practices that may have otherwise gone unnoticed
successfully committing libel

How can I go about attaining your kind of success? Did you have a mentor, or were you able to rid yourself of common sense, decency, and goodwill all on your own?

 

[Uncle Marty]

David,
You are right about somethings.
I never held 16 Kilos of rough in my hand but neither did you unless you have a pretty big hand that goes with your mouth.
I do not have a rich uncle in the Diamond business but if I did he would get me to stop ranting and return the money to the young lady in Ireland who has gotten caught in your fiasco and live up to the terms of your guarantee.
David, you have much to learn about about humility and integrity.

I was raised by my paternal grandfather. He taught me if I was to be respected as a man I should respect all others. He loved all living things. In the little free time he had he raised Canary's.
Those beautiful ittle birds that sang so sweetly.

He taught me about Staduka (charity). He had very little to give but he always found others who had less. He taught me that to give was doubling rewarding. He gave silently with no fanfare and no recognition from anyone. He often said that charity was its own reward and that the giver would receive a reward in kind. It was true.

David, unfortunately you obviously were never taught that there is more to life than going to the bank.

How could you possibly think that other people who you do not know are jealous of you and your wealth.
You do not have the wealth of humility and integrity.

You can change. It is not too late. I suggest you go to your Rabbi (teacher) and read him your messages to the jewelers and appraisers.
I am sure he will show you the error of your ways.

Sholem,
Uncle Marty of course

 

[DavidEmslie]

UGgg, I wish Scummy Ebay sellers would just go away, I have spent years building up a good reputation on Ebay and it only takes one bad apple to spoil things for the whole bunch. When things like this happen it hurts everyones reputation as a whole on that site and online in general. Looking at this guys responses and actions he has pretty much burned himself to the point of no recovery, Id get a lawer and get him taken care of since he is not living by his stated policies and commiting an act of fraud against you. Id also go to a judge and get an injunction against him selling on Ebay. He makes hard working honest Ebay jewelers look bad.

 

[Teckie]

diamonds4all ...I am not a jeweler and nor do I envy people who are successful. For the record, neither do i think that you are successful, I don't even know you. However, your arrogance is appalling. You keep dodging the question as to what is happening to dublingirl and yet keep sprouting nonsense as to attorney fees, appraisals, GAL IGI and all that NONSENSE. Forgive me for being irritated here but you are dishonest and slimy in my opinion. I just count myself lucky I never purchased anything from you at all. You give EBAY a bad name, so much that, being a seasoned ebayer myself, I think I'd be more (much more) careful on ebay in future (especially to empty promises) I thank my lucky stars for not meeting you.

I wish someone could forward this thread to authorities in ebay and dublingirl, you should hire an attorney to sue this chap for misrepresentation and fraud.

 

[LadyHawk]

Ebay will do little or nothing to this POWER SELLER since he helps "PAY" for their site. So a thought occurred to me as to how we can get the word out about this poor girl and try and show the other poor unsuspecting buyers on ebay just what he really is.
This guy sells a lot of cheap stuff, and my thought is to use the "Buy It Now" on one of those cheap items and then leave feedback that directs people's attention to this thread. If enough of us do this, maybe we can have some type of impact on his ability to rip other people off.

 

[strmrdr]

----------------
On 3/10/2004 10:00:59 AM LadyHawk wrote:

Ebay will do little or nothing to this POWER SELLER since he helps 'PAY' for their site. So a thought occurred to me as to how we can get the word out about this poor girl and try and show the other poor unsuspecting buyers on ebay just what he really is.

This guy sells a lot of cheap stuff, and my thought is to use the 'Buy It Now' on one of those cheap items and then leave feedback that directs people's attention to this thread. If enough of us do this, maybe we can have some type of impact on his ability to rip other people off.

----------------

naw why throw good money after bad.
He will get his, karma has a way of coming around.
Im just going to wait and see what happens.
I have a feeling that he has ticked off the wrong person when he ticked off Marty and riped off the wrong person when he messed with a client of his.
The wheels of justice churn slowly but he will get his eventualy.

 

[Teckie]

i don't really agree with the buy it now option. To me two wrongs don't make a right. However, I don't see why Ebay wouldn't do anything since this drives customers away. Maybe if enough of us write to ebay to complain about this chap and how it affects them, they might do something?

just my two cents worth

 

[Buena Girl]

----------------
On 3/10/2004 10:00:59 AM LadyHawk wrote:


This guy sells a lot of cheap stuff, and my thought is to use the 'Buy It Now' on one of those cheap items and then leave feedback that directs people's attention to this thread.
----------------

From personal experience, leaving negative feedback causes more headaches and stress than what the few moments of feeling empowered are worth. If you are ripped off and leave negative feedback, there are several courses of action a seller can take to personally attack your reputation and to also remove negative feedback they have received.

As for this situation, any time someone is ripped off or lied to it is truly a heinous act. However, I do not personally know these people and it is very difficult to fairly judge the situation on just a few posts by both parties.

If dublingirl was ripped off, I truly hope justice is served and they receive a full refund. But, IMO it does not feel right to attack a person/company without knowing the complete story.
I only hope that diamonds4all employees and associates read his posts and evaluate if this is all true and whether this is the type of person they want to deal with. I think it might be difficult to run a company all by yourself no matter how hot you think you are

 

[diane5006]

Okay so DON'T get mad at me...

I have been reading this thread for awhile and have refrained from posting...I have read it but may have missed something...

for the record I DO NOT condone or condemn anyone's behaviour...

I am thinking about this as a puzzle

My thoughts are someone is lying...but who...

As I see it there are 4 parties...seller, buyer, friend and appraiser

we have heard from the seller, buyer, and appraiser...BUT NOT the friend

So can we assume that one of the 3is lying or that NO one (of the 3) is lying...

ONE (and I am NOT saying this is what happened) way to solve this is as follows

Buyer buys item from seller

Seller ships item to FRIEND

FRIEND sends AN ITEM (not necessarily the SAME ITEM)to appraiser

Appraiser appraises item and states it is not the item advertised buy seller...well DUH it wouldn't be if a different item was sent...I doubt anyone would question the qualification or veracity of the appraiser in question...

SO in this NO ONE is lying except the friend

AGAIN these are just thoughts...NOT necessarily what may or may not have happened...I just thought it was an interest scenario

PLEASE DON'T be mad at me

 

[baltneu]

this thread is so confusing, I need a PHD to figure it out.
One Question: Did Dublingirl get her money back? I have not seen any post from her in a while. What is her status?

 

[icelady]

----------------
On 3/8/2004 8:28:13 PM diamond4all wrote:

Yes.
We made a decision that will forever change the way jewelry is sold on eBay:
Starting very soon ALL our eBay buyers, upon winning the bid will be informed (Before sending any payment to us which will remain in the form of WIRE TRANSFER ONLY) That we will issue NO certificate. The customer will have the right to choose HIS OWN independent local gemological lab / appraiser which is not a jeweler (as long as they are members of the trade organization and have no criminal or civil issues with local agency including the BBB) and we will send the product DIRECTLY to the appraiser of his / her choice. The appraiser will appraised the item and if it will match our advertising and the customer is satisfied - he / she will wire the funds. After receiving the funds we will OK the release of the item and the certificate from the appraiser of choice to the customer hands.
The customer will know in advanced that once he / she agree to accept the item - there will be no refund.
Repair warrantee will remained the same - free repairs for life.----------------

Diane,

I too have remained silent on this thread until your post.

I do not understand a vendor/jeweler (diamond4all) with all the "experience" he says he has only now using the above process for sales of his pieces. I know novices who sell an occasional diamond ring etc. on ebay and use the above process to insure that no one cheats. In other words, even the novices know enough to send the valuable item to an agreed upon third party for review, (BEFORE the money is pocketed by the seller) to insure that indeed the item is as was stated in the auction.

Yes, I suppose the "friend" could be the culprit, however, there is enough doubt in my mind about this vendor and his past practices to wonder about his honesty.

I know one thing, I will most likely NEVER buy on ebay after this post and reading the "feedback" portion on a few vendors on ebay. I find the way the feedback is set up on ebay insulting to ones intelligence, and ebays lack of protection for the consumer completely appalling.

 

[Chas_T]

The status as far as I can determine is there are attorney's involved between seller and customer. We have not heard from the customer, but the seller has chimed in with his perspective. If you agree with his comments or business tactics, is purely a subjective determination. Personally, the majority of his comments do not sit well with me.

Diane has nailed it as someone here is lying. The credentials of the appraiser are impeccable judging by the people in the business who know him at a professional and personal level, so in my view, the discrepancy is not in that area. The appraiser seems to be a legend in his field for honesty and integrity. Somewhere in this business transaction, either the original stone that was shipped was not correct, or according to the seller, it was switched in his estimation.

Dublin Girl as far as I am aware, has not received reimbursement. That is my take on this situation. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Regards,
Charles

 

[Mara]

We don't know much about the friend...but how realistic is it to think that the friend gets the ring from the eBay seller, takes it somewhere and switches it out with very similar stones? This is not just a plain solitaire. It's a 3 stone ring. The center stone appears to be the same diamond. So they'd have to get similar side stones, 2 of them, and have what? A jeweler take them out, replace them etc? Why bother!? For 2 side stones?!




If this friend went through all this trouble, he replaced them with stones that are similar enough to have the whole scenario not really be worth his time, don't you think? To replace two measly side stones that are around the same size anyway, then ship that to his friend, seems to be to be a total waste of his time. If he did that, and replaced F SI with HIJ SI around the same size, and then sold those F SI stones (to who, again?) what would he really net himself in terms of $$? $1000? Woohoo! Not.




Hence why I wouldn't necessarily just point the finger at the friend. I am of the firm belief this vendor is at fault in shipping the incorrect item...their hysterical defense of themselves doesn't sound right at all. And even if they are not at fault by shipping the incorrect thing, THEY SHIPPED the ring to a non-confirmed PayPal address, am I right? That is on them too. Some sellers only will ship to the buyer's confirmed address to protect themselves from this same nebulosity.




This seller needs to stop his whining and complaining, take responsibility for a transaction gone wrong, and be the better person, RETURN THE MONEY to Dublin Gal and stop making her life hell. Even if everyone was at fault here, as the seller, you have a responsibility to your customer to NOT act like a 12 year old. How the hell do you conduct business like this? Waste of your TIME, your MONEY to keep arguing and fighting. Return the $10k...which again should not be a huge amount if you do as well as you say...and just chalk it up to a lesson learned. END OF STORY!

 

[Nicrez]

Mara's absolutely right on this one. How many people like her friend, even know enough about:


a) diamonds and diamond sizes and colors to determine what's a good replacement for these sidestones?


b) Where did they get these diamonds from for such a good price to MAKE it profitable?


b) are they jewelers with a bench to do this all themselves?


c) if they had a jewler do it for them, how much did that cost?


d) So after figuring out what replacment diamonds to use, they spent the money on the new stones, used a jeweler to get them out, paid for that, got the small sides and sold them at this CRAZy profit, for all of what $500 at best? Too much work and too much knowledge of HOW to do it...




The Law of Parsimony: When multiple explanantions exist, the simplest is usually correct.




Who had the motive to switch the sides without getting caught? Who had the means to switch the stones with a jeweler's bench? Who could easily blame someone else if they were even called into question? Who has NO reputation that we consider trustworthy? Who had the most to gain? Who sounded guilty?

 

[diamond4all]

So what you all are saying here - is that the difference between what we (actually) sent this poor lady and what his honor Uncle Marty got and so professionally appraised after this "Friend" did what he did with the ring (Did anyone counted how many days passed from the time we shipped the ring to the time Marty got it??!! and the time we got the call that it is not what we shipped?) is between $500 (according to Nicrez) and $1000 ( according to Mara)?
Just tell me Mara where to send the $750.00 (between Nicrez & Mara) check made to you charity of choice.
As for the lady: It's at the hands of the attorneys.

 

[aljdewey]

Diamonds4all - I think you are confusing your Martys here.




The Marty who performed the appraisal was Martin "Marty" Haske of Adamas Gemological Labs in Brookline, MA.






Uncle Marty - who's been posting in this thread, is a retired jeweler in Freeport, NY. He is NOT the "Marty" who performed the appraisal.

 

[Nicrez]

Diamonds for all, please send that check to DublinGirl. She could use it the most, as she will now need to pay a lawyer to prove that she was ripped off. Sadly, we could have done that here for free...I hope your lawyer is doing this for free, because if he's not, then you will have effectively paid more in fighting it than just taking it back and letting her have a happy engagment, but I guess things like that have a much higher cost.




The tenet of karma is most likely known to you? "The total effect of a person's actions and conduct during the successive phases of the person's existence, regarded as determining the person's destiny." Your total effect has been nothing but negative in my opinion. I only wish that you be blessed with whatever you have given throughout your life. Only you know if that is good or bad.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 3/10/2004 4:59:30 PM aljdewey wrote:


Diamonds4all - I think you are confusing your Martys here.


The Marty who performed the appraisal was Martin 'Marty' Haske of Adamas Gemological Labs in Brookline, MA.



Uncle Marty - who's been posting in this thread, is a retired jeweler in Freeport, NY. He is NOT the 'Marty' who performed the appraisal.
----------------

I was thinking the same thing, Al. But, with the spin - if the guy is *in* the business & can not make the distinction between the two, how can he tell what in the world he shipped out?

 

[Mara]

No Diamonds4All....the $500 and $1000 numbers thrown around is what we estimated the FRIEND, who supposedly switched out the side stones, could have gotten in terms of revenue in his pocket, after he went through all this trouble to switch them and then sold them.




Worth is a loose term...but unless he had all the setup going on like Nic noted, I highly doubt this maligned friend is the one who is at fault here.

 

[tlnini]

It's people like that make me NEVER want to buy anything from Ebay again! Why have a refund policy if you are not going to honor it!

 

[innerkitten]

You know after reading this thread I would really think twice about buying expensive jewelry on Ebay. Dublin girl, sorry you're going through this. I hope this guy refunds your money ASAP.

 

[Uncle Marty]

David et al,
My name is Uncle Marty. The ring was not sent to me in NY. I never saw the ring or touched it. According to David and his policy had a jeweler touched it he would not refund the money.
The Marty that received the Diamond ring for Appraisal is Marty Haske located in Boston MA.
Marty Haske and I are friends and members of NAJA.

My original post was to defend Marty Haske, a professional jewelry appraiser and a man above reproach. I would give him the keys to my vaults and not be concerned about his personal integrity.
When David made assertions that Marty Haske did something unethical I came to Marty Haske's defense.
Please do not confuse us.
To the person that jumped to the conclusion that this Uncle Marty touched or saw the Diamond that is not true.
David...Go see your Rabbi and learn integrity and humility

Uncle Marty of course

 

[Nicrez]

----------------
On 3/10/2004 6:34:04 PM Mara wrote:







No Diamonds4All....the $500 and $1000 numbers thrown around is what we estimated the FRIEND, who supposedly switched out the side stones, could have gotten in terms of revenue in his pocket, after he went through all this trouble to switch them and then sold them.




Worth is a loose term...but unless he had all the setup going on like Nic noted, I highly doubt this maligned friend is the one who is at fault here.

----------------

Hee Hee No Mara...he's admitting to being the guy who had something to gain from replacing the sidestones, and in his guilt he felt the need to offer that amount to charity perhaps as a recompense for his misdeeds...So let him give it to Dublin Girl. Perhaps his conscience will lead him further to refund her the WHOLE amount...

 

[Jaded Gem]

I was a little sickened to read about Dublin Girl's mishap since I was reminded of my own little nightmare not so long ago.

Dublin Girl, I hope you get your money back. As for Diamond4all, I would suggest using a little bit or a lot more tact and respect for others as you apparently want from others. Usually, people on this forum are here to help one another out with their diamond purchases whether it is comparison shopping, evaluating what their diamond is worth, showing off their purchases, etc. I really don't think people on this forum are trying to scam you or are they part of what you perceive as Dublin Girl's ring of scammers. Sometimes I believe that people are less honest or forthcoming when profit or money is involved. I hope that this is not the case for you since you say that you are "honest."
I was the victim of dishonest jewelers, and I would never wish this sort of ordeal on anyone. During my ordeal, I had a few people also tell me that "if the deal sounds too good to be true then the item will most likely not measure up to what was advertised." Yeah, I think it was a wakeup call of not to be so trusting of others. It's still hard for me to believe that people can be so dishonest and deceiptful since I have been around pretty honest and good people for most of my life. But then again, I guess the lure of money for some is enough of an excuse to cheat customers or not be as forthcoming or honest a seller. I now recognize that nobody's perfect and far from it. I guess it is always easier for some to take shortcuts in life whether it is a little lie here or a little cheating there. I would hope that you are not part of the uncaring malicious sort.
Anyway, I noticed that there has not been an apology issued by you or was there any type of implication what so ever that perhaps you may have shipped out the wrong item. This customer has already paid for an appraisal from a very highly qualified appraiser. If your diamonds are so excellent then why not have all your items appraised by the G.I.A. I don't think anyone questions their grading integrity or criteria. You obviously think of yourself much higher than the common man. Then why not do the right thing and give Dublin Girl her money back? She is unhappy with the item that you sent her period. You have a refund policy that you are no longer standing by. Why is that? (Please don't recite your old lines...I have read this thread many times.) If you think she really pulled a super duper scamaroo on you (since you say you have much money to expense at proving it) then why don't you take back your ring, refund her money, and investigate the ring after you have refunded her money. You will have all the time in the world to prove your case and you will look like the better person or at least redeemed some of the respect that you have lost venting your frustrations on this forum on how you were the one who was cheated instead of her.
Anyway, I hope you choose to do the right thing, and hopefully you did not scam her as many others think you have done. I wish you luck and I would hope that the right recourse will be taken. I don't think people are born cheaters or liars or saints or prophets. They are usually conditioned by others they surround themselves with and what path they choose. The right path it seems now is just to refund Dublin Girl's money. This is just what I think everyone thinks is the proper recourse at this moment. I also want to say that I am not paid by Dublin Girl nor do I know her so this should calm any fears that you may have. Take care.

 

[DavidEmslie]

FRAUD IS FRAUD folks, all that needs to be done is to contact a lawer and get the guy, Oh yeah, if it went over state lines its mail fraud...a federal offence I might add. The guy could face some jail time and civil recourse. Get him on both ends. The answer is simple, nail him so he does not do it too anyone else.

 

[diamond4all]

People.
It seems like you don't get the point: We have no problem returning the money or paying fines when return / fine it due. However we must stand by our principles.
We will not let anyone scam us. It had never happened before and we will not let it happened now - WHATEVER THE COST IS!
This is a country of law and we will not be subjected to lies, pressure and harassments. There are official authorities, governments agencies and courts of law - David Emslie is right! Selling on eBay is an interstate commerce which means it is a federal offence not to deliver what you promised or in this case: to claim you didn't get what you have paid for!! and yes - TV investigation programs and newspapers reporters ARE also a legitimate avenue to solve problems - not by pressure but by non bias investigation. They are the ones that will determined who is right and who is wrong - not a cross burning, lynch party organizers such as some of the members here.
Now.
I looks to me that Uncle Marty (my apology for the confusion with the appraiser) is a highly respected member of this Diamond Experts Forum and his finding and opinion will be accepted by all. I therefore officially invite you to visit us in the holyland (I am there most of the year) I will take you on a tour of our factory and offices, let you meet the company owners and who knows - if it will be on the 10th of the month - You will get to open this 16 Kilo parcel...
We will of course pay for the plane ticket and will also give you a tour of the holy places.
This is not to show off our wealth and strength - but to show our integrity and respect earned during years of doing business with the largest diamond dealers and jewelers in the world. We are known to stand by our principles and go all the way (while saving no expenses) to prove it - We will not change it now.
There is more to it than some eBay's sales from a small pilot office we opened in NYC and many sellers assistants who are thrilled to work with us - It has to do with tradition! Tradition of standing by your believes, rights and ethics.
One crook who gets away with scamming us will open a flood of scams - we will not let it happened.
Uncle Marty - Be an ambassador of good will - take my offer - meet with us - visit our factory - meet our associates in ISRAEL - and come back to tell all this forum what you saw and learned about us from others!
Please let me know (you can call me direct - no need to do it publicly) the month / day you can fly and I'll get the ticket.
David

 

[pqcollectibles]

D4All!! You still don't get it!!

Uncle Marty has not seen, let alone touched the ring you shipped out.

Martin Haske in Boston, MA did the appraisal. Martin "Marty" Haske is an IDEPENDENT APPRAISER!!!!


Get out the hip boots, folks, it's gettin' deep in here!!

 

[Teckie]

You know something? what goes around comes around. D4all, If you continue these fraudalent activities, it will come back to you. Don't say you weren't warned.

 

[Uncle Marty]

David et al,
That surely is a generous offer. And I am very flattered.
I have never been to Israel and would love to see the Holy Land.
However during this time we are very busy with attempting to start a new website of a new business as well as relocate to Atlanta from New York.

Still I would like to see this entire awkward situation solved. I believe all those that have been following this thread would like to know how you intend to satisfy your customer. Certainly an apology should be offered to Marty Haske.

In the Land of the Bible when people have a difference of opinion they resort to terrorism.
But we are all honorable people in this country and have the opportunity to solve our problems in a more peacful way.

I really have a problem with your assumption that Marty Haske and others are jealous of you and your family's wealth. If you did not mention it we would have had no knowledge.

I have a good idea who might be your family. If I am right their last name starts with C.
I have known other members of this family in different phases of the jewelry industry and have done business with them over many years. I have respect for them and they have respect for me.

So David, sometimes it is better to be wrong and back off then to think you are right and fight to the death.

This situation might develop into a no win for you.
If you intend to be in business in the USA on The Internet you must find a way to solve this disagreement. I would suggest you show you are a
man of integrity and upon your receiving the ring in question return the money and then go on with your life.

The American way of doing business has always been being honest and caring for your customers. I was taught by my Grandpa that is the only way to keep your customers and expect them to recommend you to their friends and relatives. Fighting with customers and their appraisers does not make you a bigger person in our eyes. We know that there are dishonest people who have come to this country thinking because we are upfront with our thoughts we are weak. Do not make this mistake. Americans are giving,honest and mostly believe in a higher being. But when pushed we push back harder.

In this country we respect education and honesty more than we respect a mans financial wealth.

Think about what I just wrote and read it more than once.

Marty Haske is owed a formal apology, if he will accept it.

Uncle Marty of course

 

[vinniedog]

----------------
It seems like you don't get the point: We have no problem returning the money or paying fines when return / fine it due.----------------

LOL I love that line. The fact that you haven't given dublingirl's money back would suggest otherwise. Now before you post another 1000 word response that says nothing while at the same time appears to make people want to vomit, why can't you just tell us if you are going to honor your satisfaction guarantee? It's that simple. Really. It's either "yes" or it's "no". Don't talk about your heritage, don't talk about plane tickets, don't talk about what you ate for dinner- we don't care. Now is the time to put up, or shut up. Who wants to bet me that he responds to this again w/ another 1000 word post of pure babble? 100 bucks? 1000 bucks?