Debate the VP DEBATE!!!

[TravelingGal]

Date: 10/3/2008 12:52:01 AM
Author: MoonWater


I totally get your point T-Gal, I just think it''s a two way street. It can''t always be the fault of the offender when they clearly state it wasn''t their intent to offend, sometimes people need to take responsibility for being hypersensitive. Perhaps logging off or not participating in threads (or discussions in threads) which talk about sore points for them as individuals. I have certainly found a crap load of things which would be offensive to someone with my background, but I keep giving people the benefit of the doubt because I know they aren''t me and don''t understand.

If it''s not easy for the person to ignore, they need to practice and learn how to do it. Otherwise you''ll spend the rest of your life retreating into a shell whenever you encounter views different from your own (and this is just the internet for goodness sake). If you don''t think you need to defend yourself, don''t respond explaining how you don''t need to defend yourself. Simply, don''t.

And you''re right, you can''t control others and how they will react, but you can (or should) be able to control yourself and how you react. Again, a two way street.

Are you referring to my padded room again?

And I getcha. (Trying to get my Palinism in too!)

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 10/3/2008 12:52:01 AM
Author: MoonWater

Date: 10/3/2008 12:42:39 AM

Author: TravelingGal

Date: 10/3/2008 12:32:11 AM

Author: MoonWater

Ya know, I read some pretty disgusting things in this forum, some of it posted to me. I saw a lot of it go by with little objection from others, so this situation here just pales in comparison (my perception obviously). I think if you want to discuss issues that are going to get heated, you need to come prepared with thicker skin. It is extremely easy to simply ignore people. It''s even easier to sign out and turn the computer off. This is obviously my thing, but I just don''t get this hypersensitivity on the internet. Further, I don''t get this need to constantly whine (potential offensive word alert) about how you were offended. I don''t know if people are looking for support or what, but it gets old fast. It''s not that serious! Ignore, ignore. Q-TIP it and ''don''t take the bait'' (yes, another technique).

I do agree about the hypersensitivity. But it always amuses me when people say, ''well, I don''t know why you were offended...I didn''t mean it that way.'' Some people don''t understand how they come across, is my point.

I disagree on this: some people just can''t ignore others. It''s not as easy for everyone.

Bottom line, to sum what T2of2 said, you can''t control other people, which is true. Say what you will, take it how you will, it is what it is. I used to think on PS that if I had a thicker skin farm, I''d make a lotta money.

And yeah, I have read worse on this forum. I normally stay out of it because at the end of the day, I really don''t care. Maybe I''m in it tonight because after watching the debate, I am in the mood for one, gosh derned it.

I totally get your point T-Gal, I just think it''s a two way street. It can''t always be the fault of the offender when they clearly state it wasn''t their intent to offend, sometimes people need to take responsibility for being hypersensitive. Perhaps logging off or not participating in threads (or discussions in threads) which talk about sore points for them as individuals. I have certainly found a crap load of things which would be offensive to someone with my background, but I keep giving people the benefit of the doubt because I know they aren''t me and don''t understand.

If it''s not easy for the person to ignore, they need to practice and learn how to do it. Otherwise you''ll spend the rest of your life retreating into a shell whenever you encounter views different from your own (and this is just the internet for goodness sake). If you don''t think you need to defend yourself, don''t respond explaining how you don''t need to defend yourself. Simply, don''t.

And you''re right, you can''t control others and how they will react, but you can (or should) be able to control yourself and how you react. Again, a two way street.

I agree that it''s silly to fall back on "That''s not what I meant!" anytime someone gets offended. But when I really didn''t mean to offend and I try to explain that I was truly curious, what more can I do? Sadly, I don''t have a time machine!

In many cases, (and I think this is one of them) posters just need to get over it and get a thicker skin or refrain from participating in anything but "pretty ring!" threads.

 

[FrekeChild]

I have to say that I''ve just about stopped participating in the ATW threads because I get a bit hot under the collar, and I don''t want to offend anyone. So...yeah.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 10/3/2008 12:56:49 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 10/3/2008 12:52:01 AM

Author: MoonWater



I totally get your point T-Gal, I just think it''s a two way street. It can''t always be the fault of the offender when they clearly state it wasn''t their intent to offend, sometimes people need to take responsibility for being hypersensitive. Perhaps logging off or not participating in threads (or discussions in threads) which talk about sore points for them as individuals. I have certainly found a crap load of things which would be offensive to someone with my background, but I keep giving people the benefit of the doubt because I know they aren''t me and don''t understand.


If it''s not easy for the person to ignore, they need to practice and learn how to do it. Otherwise you''ll spend the rest of your life retreating into a shell whenever you encounter views different from your own (and this is just the internet for goodness sake). If you don''t think you need to defend yourself, don''t respond explaining how you don''t need to defend yourself. Simply, don''t.


And you''re right, you can''t control others and how they will react, but you can (or should) be able to control yourself and how you react. Again, a two way street.

Are you referring to my padded room again?

And I getcha. (Trying to get my Palinism in too!)

Well, ultimately, it is about the padded room, and that nice jacket they give you, in that padded room, also. Because, really, it''s all about job creation, and shoring up our economy. And ultimately, in the end, the bailout will help those that need health care. Ya know, I''m a maverick, like John McCain, and ultimately a reformer also and I know that together we will ultimately give this country, the United States, back to the people.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 10/3/2008 1:00:51 AM
Author: MoonWater

Date: 10/3/2008 12:56:49 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 10/3/2008 12:52:01 AM

Author: MoonWater



I totally get your point T-Gal, I just think it''s a two way street. It can''t always be the fault of the offender when they clearly state it wasn''t their intent to offend, sometimes people need to take responsibility for being hypersensitive. Perhaps logging off or not participating in threads (or discussions in threads) which talk about sore points for them as individuals. I have certainly found a crap load of things which would be offensive to someone with my background, but I keep giving people the benefit of the doubt because I know they aren''t me and don''t understand.


If it''s not easy for the person to ignore, they need to practice and learn how to do it. Otherwise you''ll spend the rest of your life retreating into a shell whenever you encounter views different from your own (and this is just the internet for goodness sake). If you don''t think you need to defend yourself, don''t respond explaining how you don''t need to defend yourself. Simply, don''t.


And you''re right, you can''t control others and how they will react, but you can (or should) be able to control yourself and how you react. Again, a two way street.

Are you referring to my padded room again?

And I getcha. (Trying to get my Palinism in too!)

Well, ultimately, it is about the padded room, and that nice jacket they give you, in that padded room, also. Because, really, it''s all about job creation, and shoring up our economy. And ultimately, in the end, the bailout will help those that need health care. Ya know, I''m a maverick, like John McCain, and ultimately a reformer also and I know that together we will ultimately give this country, the United States, back to the people.

Hee.

(Can you see my big chiclets grin from here?)

OK, I gotta go take a shower. I was wondering what that stink was all night and realized it wasn''t Sarah Palin''s debating skills.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 10/3/2008 12:53:36 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 10/3/2008 12:45:00 AM

Author: thing2of2

See, the fun thing about perceptions is that anyone can perceive anything anyway they want. (Say that five times fast.) I explained myself, but if she (or you, or anyone) doesn''t want to accept that explanation, there''s really nothing more I can do.

As for the class question, I was asking because if she had taken one of those classes, she would be familiar with the definition/concept of racism not existing without power. I really don''t see how that could be perceived as condescending, but again, anyone can perceive anything anyway they want to!

As for tone, the problem is that tone can''t really be conveyed well over the interweb...which is why we run into problems like this.

And I''m sure your Asian company discriminated against white people, just like I''m sure we could all come up with an example or two of white people being discriminated against. However, I''m sure you realize that white people don''t have any opportunities denied to them because of their race 99% of the time.

And I agree that there are Republicans who are well-balanced-you''re one of them, and believe it or not, I''m related to a bunch of them. But many Republicans aren''t balanced-many Republicans are religious zealots who don''t think women should have the right to govern their own bodies and don''t believe gay people should have the same rights as straight people. That is backwards and unprogressive (if that''s even a word!) and nothing is going to change my mind on that.

So you''re right-it is hard for me to understand why a young woman would choose to be extremely conservative, which is exactly why I asked. I have no desire to personally attack anyone here on PS, or in real life. That''s just not how I roll...I just have a desire to understand people''s attitudes and beliefs and the reasons behind them.

Ok, you''re wrong. Not 99% of the time. Maybe 98. 97 on a really bad day.

T2of2, I think you will find that people are generally reluctant to share their views with someone who isn''t going to change their mind. There''s very little chance of any kind of understanding or enlightening and usually only room to look for holes and debate.

We''ll have to agree to disagree on the exact percentage...or, I''d be willing to split the difference and go with 98%.

But seriously, if people don''t want to debate, why do they hang out on threads where people debate?! I don''t get that.

As for not changing my mind, well, women''s rights and gay rights are non-negotiable for me, so you''re right-I won''t change my mind on those. But I''m certainly willing to consider other opinions and arguments when it comes to most other issues. The war in Iraq, for example-I don''t know what the answer is! Same goes for the economy.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 10/3/2008 1:00:51 AM
Author: MoonWater

Date: 10/3/2008 12:56:49 AM

Author: TravelingGal

Date: 10/3/2008 12:52:01 AM

Author: MoonWater

I totally get your point T-Gal, I just think it''s a two way street. It can''t always be the fault of the offender when they clearly state it wasn''t their intent to offend, sometimes people need to take responsibility for being hypersensitive. Perhaps logging off or not participating in threads (or discussions in threads) which talk about sore points for them as individuals. I have certainly found a crap load of things which would be offensive to someone with my background, but I keep giving people the benefit of the doubt because I know they aren''t me and don''t understand.

If it''s not easy for the person to ignore, they need to practice and learn how to do it. Otherwise you''ll spend the rest of your life retreating into a shell whenever you encounter views different from your own (and this is just the internet for goodness sake). If you don''t think you need to defend yourself, don''t respond explaining how you don''t need to defend yourself. Simply, don''t.

And you''re right, you can''t control others and how they will react, but you can (or should) be able to control yourself and how you react. Again, a two way street.

Are you referring to my padded room again?

And I getcha. (Trying to get my Palinism in too!)

Well, ultimately, it is about the padded room, and that nice jacket they give you, in that padded room, also. Because, really, it''s all about job creation, and shoring up our economy. And ultimately, in the end, the bailout will help those that need health care. Ya know, I''m a maverick, like John McCain, and ultimately a reformer also and I know that together we will ultimately give this country, the United States, back to the people.

And that''s what Joe Sixpack and the haaackey maams out there really want-a maverick who will ultimate give the United States back to the people! And energy-I''m from the biggest energy state! Energy!

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 10/3/2008 1:03:29 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 10/3/2008 1:00:51 AM

Author: MoonWater

Date: 10/3/2008 12:56:49 AM

Author: TravelingGal

Date: 10/3/2008 12:52:01 AM


Author: MoonWater




I totally get your point T-Gal, I just think it''s a two way street. It can''t always be the fault of the offender when they clearly state it wasn''t their intent to offend, sometimes people need to take responsibility for being hypersensitive. Perhaps logging off or not participating in threads (or discussions in threads) which talk about sore points for them as individuals. I have certainly found a crap load of things which would be offensive to someone with my background, but I keep giving people the benefit of the doubt because I know they aren''t me and don''t understand.



If it''s not easy for the person to ignore, they need to practice and learn how to do it. Otherwise you''ll spend the rest of your life retreating into a shell whenever you encounter views different from your own (and this is just the internet for goodness sake). If you don''t think you need to defend yourself, don''t respond explaining how you don''t need to defend yourself. Simply, don''t.



And you''re right, you can''t control others and how they will react, but you can (or should) be able to control yourself and how you react. Again, a two way street.

Are you referring to my padded room again?

And I getcha. (Trying to get my Palinism in too!)

Well, ultimately, it is about the padded room, and that nice jacket they give you, in that padded room, also. Because, really, it''s all about job creation, and shoring up our economy. And ultimately, in the end, the bailout will help those that need health care. Ya know, I''m a maverick, like John McCain, and ultimately a reformer also and I know that together we will ultimately give this country, the United States, back to the people.

Hee.


(Can you see my big chiclets grin from here?)

OK, I gotta go take a shower. I was wondering what that stink was all night and realized it wasn''t Sarah Palin''s debating skills.

ROFLMAO!!! I should go to bed...I mean, how many glasses of wine can a person drink.

 

[iheartscience]

If you''re still typing coherently I''d say you could stand a few more glasses!

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 10/3/2008 1:03:43 AM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 10/3/2008 12:53:36 AM

Author: TravelingGal

Date: 10/3/2008 12:45:00 AM


Author: thing2of2


See, the fun thing about perceptions is that anyone can perceive anything anyway they want. (Say that five times fast.) I explained myself, but if she (or you, or anyone) doesn''t want to accept that explanation, there''s really nothing more I can do.


As for the class question, I was asking because if she had taken one of those classes, she would be familiar with the definition/concept of racism not existing without power. I really don''t see how that could be perceived as condescending, but again, anyone can perceive anything anyway they want to!


As for tone, the problem is that tone can''t really be conveyed well over the interweb...which is why we run into problems like this.


And I''m sure your Asian company discriminated against white people, just like I''m sure we could all come up with an example or two of white people being discriminated against. However, I''m sure you realize that white people don''t have any opportunities denied to them because of their race 99% of the time.


And I agree that there are Republicans who are well-balanced-you''re one of them, and believe it or not, I''m related to a bunch of them. But many Republicans aren''t balanced-many Republicans are religious zealots who don''t think women should have the right to govern their own bodies and don''t believe gay people should have the same rights as straight people. That is backwards and unprogressive (if that''s even a word!) and nothing is going to change my mind on that.


So you''re right-it is hard for me to understand why a young woman would choose to be extremely conservative, which is exactly why I asked. I have no desire to personally attack anyone here on PS, or in real life. That''s just not how I roll...I just have a desire to understand people''s attitudes and beliefs and the reasons behind them.

Ok, you''re wrong. Not 99% of the time. Maybe 98. 97 on a really bad day.

T2of2, I think you will find that people are generally reluctant to share their views with someone who isn''t going to change their mind. There''s very little chance of any kind of understanding or enlightening and usually only room to look for holes and debate.

We''ll have to agree to disagree on the exact percentage...or, I''d be willing to split the difference and go with 98%.

But seriously, if people don''t want to debate, why do they hang out on threads where people debate?! I don''t get that.


As for not changing my mind, well, women''s rights and gay rights are non-negotiable for me, so you''re right-I won''t change my mind on those. But I''m certainly willing to consider other opinions and arguments when it comes to most other issues. The war in Iraq, for example-I don''t know what the answer is! Same goes for the economy.

The part in bold above is something I have asked in my head a million times.

Regarding your last point, I think that''s part of the problem. This strange idea that the point of the discussion is to convince the other side. I''m not trying to convince nor am I asking for details of the opposing view so that they can convince me. What I''m shooting for is as close to mutual understanding as possible. I may not agree with a view, but in many cases I can understand why the person feels that way if they explain how they got there. But, people get offended by being asked to explain so there goes that. Frankly I think if we just go:

I feel this

I feel that

I feel this v.2

I feel that v.2

With nothing in between this section of the forum would be peaceful, utterly boring, and we would have learned nothing. I don''t participate in these threads to learn nothing. I can go watch a Palin interview for that!

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 10/3/2008 1:05:58 AM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 10/3/2008 1:00:51 AM

Author: MoonWater

Date: 10/3/2008 12:56:49 AM


Author: TravelingGal

Date: 10/3/2008 12:52:01 AM


Author: MoonWater


I totally get your point T-Gal, I just think it''s a two way street. It can''t always be the fault of the offender when they clearly state it wasn''t their intent to offend, sometimes people need to take responsibility for being hypersensitive. Perhaps logging off or not participating in threads (or discussions in threads) which talk about sore points for them as individuals. I have certainly found a crap load of things which would be offensive to someone with my background, but I keep giving people the benefit of the doubt because I know they aren''t me and don''t understand.


If it''s not easy for the person to ignore, they need to practice and learn how to do it. Otherwise you''ll spend the rest of your life retreating into a shell whenever you encounter views different from your own (and this is just the internet for goodness sake). If you don''t think you need to defend yourself, don''t respond explaining how you don''t need to defend yourself. Simply, don''t.


And you''re right, you can''t control others and how they will react, but you can (or should) be able to control yourself and how you react. Again, a two way street.

Are you referring to my padded room again?

And I getcha. (Trying to get my Palinism in too!)

Well, ultimately, it is about the padded room, and that nice jacket they give you, in that padded room, also. Because, really, it''s all about job creation, and shoring up our economy. And ultimately, in the end, the bailout will help those that need health care. Ya know, I''m a maverick, like John McCain, and ultimately a reformer also and I know that together we will ultimately give this country, the United States, back to the people.

And that''s what Joe Sixpack and the haaackey maams out there really want-a maverick who will ultimate give the United States back to the people! And energy-I''m from the biggest energy state! Energy!

Look, if she just would have looked into the camera and promised us all free Alaskan King Crab Legs, McCain/Palin would have gotten my vote.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 10/3/2008 1:10:36 AM
Author: thing2of2
If you''re still typing coherently I''d say you could stand a few more glasses!

Heh, when I stop typing coherently (minus my constant typos/spelling errors) I''m passed out. I have this insane ability to be able to type when drunk lol. Comprehension, that''s another story.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 10/3/2008 1:12:50 AM
Author: MoonWater
Look, if she just would have looked into the camera and promised us all free Alaskan King Crab Legs, McCain/Palin would have gotten my vote.

Oooo! Me too!!! And Salmon as well!

yum...

 

[Ellen]

I agree, she didn''t suck. Those aren''t the standards I judge by either, except in Sarah''s case.

Seriously, I have to say I was relieved for her, considering how bad it could have been. She did all that could have been expected of her, and if McCain loses, he can''t pin this performance on her. Of course, she really didn''t answer many questions, but that''s beside the point.

And obviously Joe won where it counts.

 

[Krissie]

Date: 10/3/2008 1:12:50 AM
Author: MoonWater

Date: 10/3/2008 1:05:58 AM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 10/3/2008 1:00:51 AM

Author: MoonWater

Date: 10/3/2008 12:56:49 AM


Author: TravelingGal

Date: 10/3/2008 12:52:01 AM


Author: MoonWater


I totally get your point T-Gal, I just think it''s a two way street. It can''t always be the fault of the offender when they clearly state it wasn''t their intent to offend, sometimes people need to take responsibility for being hypersensitive. Perhaps logging off or not participating in threads (or discussions in threads) which talk about sore points for them as individuals. I have certainly found a crap load of things which would be offensive to someone with my background, but I keep giving people the benefit of the doubt because I know they aren''t me and don''t understand.


If it''s not easy for the person to ignore, they need to practice and learn how to do it. Otherwise you''ll spend the rest of your life retreating into a shell whenever you encounter views different from your own (and this is just the internet for goodness sake). If you don''t think you need to defend yourself, don''t respond explaining how you don''t need to defend yourself. Simply, don''t.


And you''re right, you can''t control others and how they will react, but you can (or should) be able to control yourself and how you react. Again, a two way street.

Are you referring to my padded room again?

And I getcha. (Trying to get my Palinism in too!)

Well, ultimately, it is about the padded room, and that nice jacket they give you, in that padded room, also. Because, really, it''s all about job creation, and shoring up our economy. And ultimately, in the end, the bailout will help those that need health care. Ya know, I''m a maverick, like John McCain, and ultimately a reformer also and I know that together we will ultimately give this country, the United States, back to the people.

And that''s what Joe Sixpack and the haaackey maams out there really want-a maverick who will ultimate give the United States back to the people! And energy-I''m from the biggest energy state! Energy!

Look, if she just would have looked into the camera and promised us all free Alaskan King Crab Legs, McCain/Palin would have gotten my vote.

OMG ::dies::

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Good morning! Did someone say "crab legs"???

To those of you who stayed on topic throughout this thread, thank you for making it a good time just like last Friday night was!

However, a few people took this opportunity to get into a debate of their own, dealing with what does and what does not constitute racism. I stayed out of that discussion because (a) it was off-topic, (b) it is against PS rules, and (c) it''s an issue that I prefer not to discuss because I have very strong feelings on that topic.

Again, I believe this thread went well when we stayed on topic. Therefore, I will be starting another thread for Tuesday night''s debate. When I start that thread, I''m going to list very specific rules in the original post. I''m going to trust that everyone will stay on topic, keeping it light-hearted and fun like the first debate thread was. TGal, can we count on you and Amelia to referee for us again on Tuesday?

OK, lecture over!

 

[swimmer]

Hi guys, mmmm, skimming through was interesting, just wanted to add that Bosniacs are ethnic Bosnians who are Muslim, so when discussing genocidal conflicts it is necessary to distinguish which Bosnians are killing or being killed. Muslim Bosnians are Bosniacs and have been for a long time (Biden didn''t invent the term).

And no one freaked when Palin suggested changing the Constitution to expand the role of the VP?!? Moon, what were you drinking? In an almost post-Cheney world, that is quite a statement! The VP was not designed to serve as part of the executive branch, unless the exec dies! How can the M/P campaign be all about original constitutional meaning...framers'' original intent...and yet contradict it all the time?

Quite frankly, its good that Palin outgrew her Miss South Carolina blathering, young women need to see that women can be respected and hold their own. I would never vote for her, even at the PTA level, but girls need to see women in high places.

Glad y''all had fun!

 

[Ellen]

Date: 10/3/2008 9:55:04 AM
Author: swimmer
Hi guys, mmmm, skimming through was interesting, just wanted to add that Bosniacs are ethnic Bosnians who are Muslim, so when discussing genocidal conflicts it is necessary to distinguish which Bosnians are killing or being killed. Muslim Bosnians are Bosniacs and have been for a long time (Biden didn''t invent the term).

And no one freaked when Palin suggested changing the Constitution to expand the role of the VP?!? Moon, what were you drinking? In an almost post-Cheney world, that is quite a statement! The VP was not designed to serve as part of the executive branch, unless the exec dies! How can the M/P campaign be all about original constitutional meaning...framers'' original intent...and yet contradict it all the time?

Quite frankly, its good that Palin outgrew her Miss South Carolina blathering, young women need to see that women can be respected and hold their own. I would never vote for her, even at the PTA level, but girls need to see women in high places.

Glad y''all had fun!

Yes, I did.

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 10/3/2008 10:06:41 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 10/3/2008 9:55:04 AM
Author: swimmer
Hi guys, mmmm, skimming through was interesting, just wanted to add that Bosniacs are ethnic Bosnians who are Muslim, so when discussing genocidal conflicts it is necessary to distinguish which Bosnians are killing or being killed. Muslim Bosnians are Bosniacs and have been for a long time (Biden didn''t invent the term).

And no one freaked when Palin suggested changing the Constitution to expand the role of the VP?!? Moon, what were you drinking? In an almost post-Cheney world, that is quite a statement! The VP was not designed to serve as part of the executive branch, unless the exec dies! How can the M/P campaign be all about original constitutional meaning...framers'' original intent...and yet contradict it all the time?

Quite frankly, its good that Palin outgrew her Miss South Carolina blathering, young women need to see that women can be respected and hold their own. I would never vote for her, even at the PTA level, but girls need to see women in high places.

Glad y''all had fun!

Yes, I did.

As did I. FF almost kicked one of the cats jumping out of his seat when she said that.

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 10/3/2008 10:08:51 AM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 10/3/2008 10:06:41 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 10/3/2008 9:55:04 AM
Author: swimmer
Hi guys, mmmm, skimming through was interesting, just wanted to add that Bosniacs are ethnic Bosnians who are Muslim, so when discussing genocidal conflicts it is necessary to distinguish which Bosnians are killing or being killed. Muslim Bosnians are Bosniacs and have been for a long time (Biden didn''t invent the term).

And no one freaked when Palin suggested changing the Constitution to expand the role of the VP?!? Moon, what were you drinking? In an almost post-Cheney world, that is quite a statement! The VP was not designed to serve as part of the executive branch, unless the exec dies! How can the M/P campaign be all about original constitutional meaning...framers'' original intent...and yet contradict it all the time?

Quite frankly, its good that Palin outgrew her Miss South Carolina blathering, young women need to see that women can be respected and hold their own. I would never vote for her, even at the PTA level, but girls need to see women in high places.

Glad y''all had fun!

Yes, I did.

As did I. FF almost kicked one of the cats jumping out of his seat when she said that.

expand to what?! dictator?! i can only hang my head in despair.

movie zombie

 

[swimmer]

sorry, wrong thread

 

[risingsun]

My DH is a Republican and I am an Independent. We have had political debates in our home for years. We both agree about Palin. We don't see any substance to her. Having force-fed facts does not mean that she has knowledge. Spitting out sound bytes does not express her own perspective on the issues. You can use the same talking points, ad nauseam, but it doesn't change inaccuries into facts. Palin did better than expected during the debate because the bar was set so low. Her style of debate wasn't directed toward someone like me. I don't like faux folksey, bless her heart, and "some of my best are [fill in the blanks]" doesn't do it for me either. I am a white, Jewish woman. I am put off by Palin as "constructed, ready-for-prime time candidate." My husband and his two brothers, one of whom was a delegate to the Republican National Convention, are all very disappointed in Palin as McCain's running mate. DH and I don't drink, but we did virtual shots during the debate. We virtually were slumped in our chairs by the end of it. I've never been a big Biden fan, but I believe he has the knowledge and experience for the position. We have been inundated with McCain's POW history and Palin's family challenges. Given that Palin kept bringing her hockey mom status into the debate, I thought that Biden's brief reference to his own family was relevant. I was unaware about the losses he had endured and impressed that he did not use this information the way the Mc/Palin ticket has used their personal history.

I think that Palin is trying to "talk the talk" with limited success. I don't think she has walked the walk. She is by far the weakest of the four candidates.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 10/3/2008 10:38:01 AM
Author: risingsun
My DH is a Republican and I am an Independent. We have had political debates in our home for years. We both agree about Palin. We don''t see any substance to her. Having force-fed facts does not mean that she has knowledge. Spitting out sound bytes does not express her own perspective on the issues. You can use the same talking points, ad nauseam, but it doesn''t change inaccuries into facts. Palin did better than expected during the debate because the bar was set so low. Her style of debate wasn''t directed toward someone like me. I don''t like faux folksey, bless her heart, and ''some of my best are [fill in the blanks]'' doesn''t do it for me either. I am a white, Jewish woman. I am put off by Palin as ''constructed, ready-for-prime time candidate.'' My husband and his two brothers, one of whom was a delegate to the Republican National Convention, are all very disappointed in Palin as McCain''s running mate. DH and I don''t drink, but we did virtual shots during the debate. We virtually were slumped in our chairs by the end of it. I''ve never been a big Biden fan, but I believe he has the knowledge and experience for the position. We have been inundated with McCain''s POW history and Palin''s family challenges. Given that Palin kept bringing her hockey mom status into the debate, I thought that Biden''s brief reference to his own family was relevant. I was unaware about the losses he had endured and impressed that he did not use this information the way the Mc/Palin ticket has used their personal history.

I think that Palin is trying to ''talk the talk'' with limited success. I don''t think she has walked the walk. She is by far the weakest of the four candidates.

Very well said, Marian . . . I agree with every word!

DH is not registered to vote (

) but I think he identifies himself as more of a Republican than anything else. In other words, if he registered tomorrow I would think he would register as a Republican. I''m registered as an Independent, but I usually side with the Democrats. So, obviously, DH and I don''t agree on politics. Since I don''t like arguing in general, and I particularly dislike arguing with my spouse, I refuse to discuss politics with him.

 

[Demelza]

I''m really confused by much of the news coverage of the debates saying that Palin did well. Am I the only one who thought she was an absolute train wreck? Yes, she spoke in full sentences, but so can my 2 year old daughter. She''s remarkably inarticulate and made some pretty obvious grammatical errors. When she wasn''t trying to be "cute", she was very obviously reciting a series of memorized talking points. More importantly, by her own admission, she didn''t even answer the questions! I know that it''s fairly commonplace for politicians to sidestep issues they don''t want to talk about, but it''s usually done with a bit more grace and aplomb. And it''s not usually so seemingly random. My husband and I were cracking up when she brought up energy for the 10th time when it had absolutely nothing to do with the topic. Biden came up with some pretty convincing arguments against McCain and his senate record and, for the most part, Palin didn''t even attempt to rebut him. If people were expecting her to run off the stage, then I guess she did well, but I would call her performance nothing short of incompetent.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 10/3/2008 10:51:55 AM
Author: Demelza
I''m really confused by much of the news coverage of the debates saying that Palin did well. Am I the only one who thought she was an absolute train wreck? Yes, she spoke in full sentences, but so can my 2 year old daughter. She''s remarkably inarticulate and made some pretty obvious grammatical errors. When she wasn''t trying to be ''cute'', she was very obviously reciting a series of memorized talking points. More importantly, by her own admission, she didn''t even answer the questions! I know that it''s fairly commonplace for politicians to sidestep issues they don''t want to talk about, but it''s usually done with a bit more grace and aplomb. And it''s not usually so seemingly random. My husband and I were cracking up when she brought up energy for the 10th time when it had absolutely nothing to do with the topic. Biden came up with some pretty convincing arguments against McCain and his senate record and, for the most part, Palin didn''t even attempt to rebut him. If people were expecting her to run off the stage, then I guess she did well, but I would call her performance nothing short of incompetent.

But that''s just it, because of her previous interviews, if she did anything other than look like a deer in the headlights, it would be perceived as a victory. And so it is. But in reality it''s not, and I think everyone (on both sides) knows that.

 

[swimmer]

Date: 10/3/2008 10:38:01 AM
Author: risingsun
My DH is a Republican and I am an Independent. We have had political debates in our home for years. We both agree about Palin. We don''t see any substance to her. Having force-fed facts does not mean that she has knowledge. Spitting out sound bytes does not express her own perspective on the issues. You can use the same talking points, ad nauseam, but it doesn''t change inaccuries into facts. Palin did better than expected during the debate because the bar was set so low. Her style of debate wasn''t directed toward someone like me. I don''t like faux folksey, bless her heart, and ''some of my best are [fill in the blanks]'' doesn''t do it for me either. I am a white, Jewish woman. I am put off by Palin as ''constructed, ready-for-prime time candidate.'' My husband and his two brothers, one of whom was a delegate to the Republican National Convention, are all very disappointed in Palin as McCain''s running mate. DH and I don''t drink, but we did virtual shots during the debate. We virtually were slumped in our chairs by the end of it. I''ve never been a big Biden fan, but I believe he has the knowledge and experience for the position. We have been inundated with McCain''s POW history and Palin''s family challenges. Given that Palin kept bringing her hockey mom status into the debate, I thought that Biden''s brief reference to his own family was relevant. I was unaware about the losses he had endured and impressed that he did not use this information the way the Mc/Palin ticket has used their personal history.


I think that Palin is trying to ''talk the talk'' with limited success. I don''t think she has walked the walk. She is by far the weakest of the four candidates.

Well said Risingsun. I was also off put with her pandering on Israel, was she trying to win the Jews of Boca there or what? I think it backfired, as I read on an Israeli online-paper this am, "when people speak to me all folksy, they are usually asking me where my horns are."
I agree, Biden would not have been my pick, but now I''m very impressed.

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 10/3/2008 10:51:55 AM
Author: Demelza
I''m really confused by much of the news coverage of the debates saying that Palin did well. Am I the only one who thought she was an absolute train wreck? Yes, she spoke in full sentences, but so can my 2 year old daughter. She''s remarkably inarticulate and made some pretty obvious grammatical errors. When she wasn''t trying to be ''cute'', she was very obviously reciting a series of memorized talking points. More importantly, by her own admission, she didn''t even answer the questions! I know that it''s fairly commonplace for politicians to sidestep issues they don''t want to talk about, but it''s usually done with a bit more grace and aplomb. And it''s not usually so seemingly random. My husband and I were cracking up when she brought up energy for the 10th time when it had absolutely nothing to do with the topic. Biden came up with some pretty convincing arguments against McCain and his senate record and, for the most part, Palin didn''t even attempt to rebut him. If people were expecting her to run off the stage, then I guess she did well, but I would call her performance nothing short of incompetent.

I noticed that too, and from various sources they stated that she didn "well" because the bar was set so low.

I''m surprised that Republican supporters are also saying she did well. She hardly answered a question, and she was putting on a show with her "Alaskan Charm." I mean, I will support Obama/Biden regardless of how they do in the debates, and thats fine if McCain/Palin supporters feel the same way, but give me a break, can''t you admit she did not do well in comparison to what is expected of other candidates?

I never feel anything real from her. It always seems put on. Maybe I wouldn''t despise her so much if I didn''t feel like she was always putting on an act.

This debate being referred to as a "tie" is a joke, and an insult to Joe Biden.

 

[risingsun]

Golda Meir, Margaret Thatcher and Sarah Palin...one of these is not like the others

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 10/3/2008 10:57:01 AM
Author: swimmer

Date: 10/3/2008 10:38:01 AM
Author: risingsun
My DH is a Republican and I am an Independent. We have had political debates in our home for years. We both agree about Palin. We don''t see any substance to her. Having force-fed facts does not mean that she has knowledge. Spitting out sound bytes does not express her own perspective on the issues. You can use the same talking points, ad nauseam, but it doesn''t change inaccuries into facts. Palin did better than expected during the debate because the bar was set so low. Her style of debate wasn''t directed toward someone like me. I don''t like faux folksey, bless her heart, and ''some of my best are [fill in the blanks]'' doesn''t do it for me either. I am a white, Jewish woman. I am put off by Palin as ''constructed, ready-for-prime time candidate.'' My husband and his two brothers, one of whom was a delegate to the Republican National Convention, are all very disappointed in Palin as McCain''s running mate. DH and I don''t drink, but we did virtual shots during the debate. We virtually were slumped in our chairs by the end of it. I''ve never been a big Biden fan, but I believe he has the knowledge and experience for the position. We have been inundated with McCain''s POW history and Palin''s family challenges. Given that Palin kept bringing her hockey mom status into the debate, I thought that Biden''s brief reference to his own family was relevant. I was unaware about the losses he had endured and impressed that he did not use this information the way the Mc/Palin ticket has used their personal history.


I think that Palin is trying to ''talk the talk'' with limited success. I don''t think she has walked the walk. She is by far the weakest of the four candidates.

Well said Risingsun. I was also off put with her pandering on Israel, was she trying to win the Jews of Boca there or what? I think it backfired, as I read on an Israeli online-paper this am, ''when people speak to me all folksy, they are usually asking me where my horns are.''
I agree, Biden would not have been my pick, but now I''m very impressed.

LOL! That sounds like something my mom used to say to me when I was younger. I would say "I met a friend today, and they were surprised I was Jewish!" Mom would say "Did they not notice your horns?"

Hehe.

I was really annoyed at her Israel drop. It was seriously

HI ISRAEL! ... ook now back to the real issues.

 

[Demelza]

Date: 10/3/2008 10:59:14 AM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 10/3/2008 10:57:01 AM

Author: swimmer

Date: 10/3/2008 10:38:01 AM

Author: risingsun

My DH is a Republican and I am an Independent. We have had political debates in our home for years. We both agree about Palin. We don''t see any substance to her. Having force-fed facts does not mean that she has knowledge. Spitting out sound bytes does not express her own perspective on the issues. You can use the same talking points, ad nauseam, but it doesn''t change inaccuries into facts. Palin did better than expected during the debate because the bar was set so low. Her style of debate wasn''t directed toward someone like me. I don''t like faux folksey, bless her heart, and ''some of my best are [fill in the blanks]'' doesn''t do it for me either. I am a white, Jewish woman. I am put off by Palin as ''constructed, ready-for-prime time candidate.'' My husband and his two brothers, one of whom was a delegate to the Republican National Convention, are all very disappointed in Palin as McCain''s running mate. DH and I don''t drink, but we did virtual shots during the debate. We virtually were slumped in our chairs by the end of it. I''ve never been a big Biden fan, but I believe he has the knowledge and experience for the position. We have been inundated with McCain''s POW history and Palin''s family challenges. Given that Palin kept bringing her hockey mom status into the debate, I thought that Biden''s brief reference to his own family was relevant. I was unaware about the losses he had endured and impressed that he did not use this information the way the Mc/Palin ticket has used their personal history.



I think that Palin is trying to ''talk the talk'' with limited success. I don''t think she has walked the walk. She is by far the weakest of the four candidates.

Well said Risingsun. I was also off put with her pandering on Israel, was she trying to win the Jews of Boca there or what? I think it backfired, as I read on an Israeli online-paper this am, ''when people speak to me all folksy, they are usually asking me where my horns are.''

I agree, Biden would not have been my pick, but now I''m very impressed.

LOL! That sounds like something my mom used to say to me when I was younger. I would say ''I met a friend today, and they were surprised I was Jewish!'' Mom would say ''Did they not notice your horns?''


Hehe.


I was really annoyed at her Israel drop. It was seriously

HI ISRAEL! ... ook now back to the real issues.

It wasn''t too long ago that someone said to me, "You''re Jewish?!? You don''t look Jewish." Ummm, is that supposed to be a compliment? I was so taken aback, I honestly didn''t know what to say.