5+ carat lab diamond - thoughts?

[DejaWiz]

One more HPHT to ask for pictures and videos for, TSH!

5.10 carat (ct) IGI Round Loose Diamond F Color VVS1 Clarity Excellent Cut

www.b2cjewels.com

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[vintageinjune]

So, not a colorless diamond, but 5.02, G, VS1, grown CVD, hearts and arrows noted on the IGI report. Might be worth a look?

diamond-LGO11721401JA | Frank Darling

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[twosanguinehearts]

@DejaWiz does this one look brown to you or might it be worth a shot? Love the numbers and price!

Lab

 

[DejaWiz]

@DejaWiz does this one look brown to you or might it be worth a shot? Love the numbers and price!

Lab

Numbers do look good!
It does have a (very) slight brown tint.
Good news is that it's a little bit cheaper at B2C, and I believe their 1% off loose lab diamonds code is still active:

5.72 carat (ct) IGI Round Loose Diamond F Color SI1 Clarity Excellent Cut

www.b2cjewels.com

 

[twosanguinehearts]

Numbers do look good!
It does have a (very) slight brown tint.
Good news is that it's a little bit cheaper at B2C, and I believe their 1% off loose lab diamonds code is still active:

5.72 carat (ct) IGI Round Loose Diamond F Color SI1 Clarity Excellent Cut

www.b2cjewels.com

Ugh. I don’t want brown to be my new blue. Do you think it would be noticeable in person?

 

[DejaWiz]

Ugh. I don’t want brown to be my new blue. Do you think it would be noticeable in person?

Hard to tell without seeing it in all sorts of lighting conditions. My wife and I are definitely in the "colorless or bust" camp, so we would dare not go over an IGI E...and both of us know full well that an extremely well cut diamond will throw back so much white light that anything below a J or an I would likely be just fine for our eyes, but it would still be in our minds.

If you feel like like asking for another video - how crazy do you want to get with the overall spread?
My concern (other than potential tint) would be the extent of the internal graining shown on the plot...may be indicative of moderate stria/graining.

6.52 carat (ct) IGI Round Loose Diamond F Color SI1 Clarity Excellent Cut

www.b2cjewels.com

 

[vintageinjune]

Alright, 4.81, CVD, F, VVS2, Hearts and Arrows on the certificate, with a 56.5% table, 16% crown height, just under $30k.

SOLD ITEM 4.81 CARAT Round | LAB-GROWN DIAMOND | F COLOR | VVS2 CLARITY | super cut CUT | IGI CERTIFIED | STOCK ID: 1151638 | The Art Of Jewels

4.81 CARAT Round | LAB-GROWN DIAMOND | F COLOR | VVS2 CLARITY | super cut CUT | IGI CERTIFIED | STOCK ID: 1151638

www.theartofjewels.com

2050 @Vision360

 

[twosanguinehearts]

Alright, 4.81, CVD, F, VVS2, Hearts and Arrows on the certificate, with a 56.5% table, 16% crown height, just under $30k.

SOLD ITEM 4.81 CARAT Round | LAB-GROWN DIAMOND | F COLOR | VVS2 CLARITY | super cut CUT | IGI CERTIFIED | STOCK ID: 1151638 | The Art Of Jewels

4.81 CARAT Round | LAB-GROWN DIAMOND | F COLOR | VVS2 CLARITY | super cut CUT | IGI CERTIFIED | STOCK ID: 1151638

www.theartofjewels.com

2050 @Vision360

Thank you! It looks like a great one, but I don’t think I want to pay for vvs clarity. The goal would be an eye clean SI1 - would rather prioritize size and color (after cut of course).

 

[ariel144]

IMHO that 5.72 F SI1 does not have any brown tint. Geesh!

They have a 5.33 E SI 1 for $22,000; so $19k for a 5.72 is a good price for an almost 6c stone. Is worth $3,000 to get an E color that is 1/2 carat smaller? I think not.

In one of Jon's (Distinctive Gem) videos on a G color CVD lab diamond he stated that in talking with an ophthalmologist, he stated that the human eye cannot possibly decipher between a G, F, E, D colorless diamonds IRL. Jon also stated that IGI's certs are pretty darn accurate.

I have a 3.45c G SI1 super ideal (eye clean) CVD and there is no brown tint or yellow tint!!!. It was a REALLY good price so I splurged over my budget to buy it! I say super ideal because the ASET looked really good. As did the hearts and arrows. The original vendor had written HA on the paper the stone came wrapped in and sent to Ritani: But was not on the IGI cert. (HCA 1.3 and smack in the middle of both the GIA X and AGS 0 cut grades)

My G color is icy white IRL all the time! I purchased from Ritani and they price matched B2C's price. They also have 12 months interest free financing so I did not have to pull money out of savings. Which was the reason I wanted to go through them.

That 5.72 diamond is huge and a great price. They labeled it "super ideal" so it probably has a triple Ex. HCA score. If it is a great performing stone it will be icy white IRL. What is the HCA score?

Also I was told by a certain trade member when I showed him my ASET that "H & A is just a marketing tool". I'm quoting him.

If it has an Excellent HCA score you might want to look at it in person. CUT is KING not color or clarity. High Color and clarity do not make a diamond beautiful...it is the cut that makes the diamond perform. But F IS an HIGH COLOR! LOL! Spending thousands of dollars more for an E color over an F is throwing away your money IMO. Makes no sense to me. Also getting high clarity is throwing away your money too. Eye clean, who really cares or who will know what the clarity is?

Ritani was great to deal with and they went over and above to put my stone on hold over the holiday weekend and it was only 10 days after the date on the IGI cert. so the stone had just hit the market and was $2+k less than other stones that same size, color, clarity.

Personally, I would grab that 5.72c F color honker ASAP!
I hope you find your stone. The hunt goes on!

 

[ariel144]

Hard to tell without seeing it in all sorts of lighting conditions. My wife and I are definitely in the "colorless or bust" camp, so we would dare not go over an IGI E...and both of us know full well that an extremely well cut diamond will throw back so much white light that anything below a J or an I would likely be just fine for our eyes, but it would still be in our minds.

If you feel like like asking for another video - how crazy do you want to get with the overall spread?
My concern (other than potential tint) would be the extent of the internal graining shown on the plot...may be indicative of moderate stria/graining.

6.52 carat (ct) IGI Round Loose Diamond F Color SI1 Clarity Excellent Cut

www.b2cjewels.com

Oh my! That 6.52c honker has the exact same numbers as my 3.45 with the exception of the table % mine is 56.5% vs 57% on this stone.

Verify Your Report

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My HCA Score was 1.3. EX, EX, EX, VG so it will probably have the same HCA score. These are very large stones. But for $6k less she can get that 5.72c. I wouldn't worry about the internal graining ..."all CVD's have it" according to Jon. Watch Jon's video again...it doesn't really affect the performance of the stone. Earth mined diamonds also can have internal graining.

I forgot to add that Ritani will send you a 3% discount in an email when you register with them. That would make that 5.72c stone $18,430 if they are still doing that discount offer.

 

[twosanguinehearts]

IMHO that 5.72 F SI1 does not have any brown tint. Geesh!

They have a 5.33 E SI 1 for $22,000; so $19k for a 5.72 is a good price for an almost 6c stone. Is worth $3,000 to get an E color that is 1/2 carat smaller? I think not.

In one of Jon's (Distinctive Gem) videos on a G color CVD lab diamond he stated that in talking with an ophthalmologist, he stated that the human eye cannot possibly decipher between a G, F, E, D colorless diamonds IRL. Jon also stated that IGI's certs are pretty darn accurate.

I have a 3.45c G SI1 super ideal (eye clean) CVD and there is no brown tint or yellow tint!!!. It was a REALLY good price so I splurged over my budget to buy it! I say super ideal because the ASET looked really good. As did the hearts and arrows. The original vendor had written HA on the paper the stone came wrapped in and sent to Ritani: But was not on the IGI cert. (HCA 1.3 and smack in the middle of both the GIA X and AGS 0 cut grades)

My G color is icy white IRL all the time! I purchased from Ritani and they price matched B2C's price. They also have 12 months interest free financing so I did not have to pull money out of savings. Which was the reason I wanted to go through them.

That 5.72 diamond is huge and a great price. They labeled it "super ideal" so it probably has a triple Ex. HCA score. If it is a great performing stone it will be icy white IRL. What is the HCA score?

Also I was told by a certain trade member when I showed him my ASET that "H & A is just a marketing tool". I'm quoting him.

If it has an Excellent HCA score you might want to look at it in person. CUT is KING not color or clarity. High Color and clarity do not make a diamond beautiful...it is the cut that makes the diamond perform. But F IS an HIGH COLOR! LOL! Spending thousands of dollars more for an E color over an F is throwing away your money IMO. Makes no sense to me. Also getting high clarity is throwing away your money too. Eye clean, who really cares or who will know what the clarity is?

Ritani was great to deal with and they went over and above to put my stone on hold over the holiday weekend and it was only 10 days after the date on the IGI cert. so the stone had just hit the market and was $2+k less than other stones that same size, color, clarity.

Personally, I would grab that 5.72c F color honker ASAP!
I hope you find your stone. The hunt goes on!

Truly appreciate your feedback here! The HCA score on the 5.72 is excellent, but it ranks very good in fire, scintillation and spread. I know some people don’t worry about that, but would you be concerned?? I want the best stone I can find!

 

[Kim N]

Truly appreciate your feedback here! The HCA score on the 5.72 is excellent, but it ranks very good in fire, scintillation and spread. I know some people don’t worry about that, but would you be concerned?? I want the best stone I can find!

It's really just the 40.9 pavilion. If you can get an ASET image that checks out, I wouldn't be concerned. The video looks great.

 

[ariel144]

It's really just the 40.9 pavilion. If you can get an ASET image that checks out, I wouldn't be concerned. The video looks great.

I'll go with Kim N, the expert. 1.7 is under 2 so it should be a great performing stone. Ask Ritani to get an ASET and Ideal Scope from the original supplier.

I just saw on their website where they are giving a 3% discount on all their lab diamonds.

 

[DejaWiz]

There is extremely faint brown tint with the 5.72 carat. I don't think it'd affect appearance when it's doing its thing to make light twinkle and dance to your eyes, but something I want you to be aware of the presence, regardless.
If there wasn't any tint, then IGI would have graded it as a D.



You can see the tint much easier in this angle:

 

[twosanguinehearts]

I'll go with Kim N, the expert. 1.7 is under 2 so it should be a good performing stone. Ask Ritani to get an ASET and Ideal Scope from the original supplier.

I just saw on their website where they are giving a 3% discount on all their lab diamonds.

Ok will do! @Kim N thanks for that, I love the small table and high crown so hopefully there’s no issue with that 40.9…

@Karl_K what do you think of the angles on this one?

 

[Karl_K]

Ok will do! @Kim N thanks for that, I love the small table and high crown so hopefully there’s no issue with that 40.9…

@Karl_K what do you think of the angles on this one?

right in a sweet range.
Do you have any images?

 

[Kim N]

twosanguinehearts, have you double-checked that it's still available? Ritani is showing that it's sold.

 

[twosanguinehearts]

twosanguinehearts, have you double-checked that it's still available? Ritani is showing that it's sold.

I got it before someone snapped it up!

right in a sweet range.
Do you have any images?

They were already closed, but I’m emailing them to request the ASET. Here’s the listing with the video: https://www.ritani.com/products/5-7...-si1-clarity-igi-lg530295857-sku-d-4o1qytgpip

 

[Karl_K]

I got it before someone snapped it up!



They were already closed, but I’m emailing them to request the ASET. Here’s the listing with the video: https://www.ritani.com/products/5-7...-si1-clarity-igi-lg530295857-sku-d-4o1qytgpip

the inclusion near the girdle has a good chance of being eye visible. With a prong nearby it might be less visible,
Good idea getting an ASET image.

 

[Karl_K]

 

[twosanguinehearts]

the inclusion near the girdle has a good chance of being eye visible. With a prong nearby it might be less visible

Yes definitely, I would have them put the prong there. The cut and whether or not there’s visible tint will be the deciding factors, we’ll see!

 

[twosanguinehearts]

There is extremely faint brown tint with the 5.72 carat. I don't think it'd affect appearance when it's doing its thing to make light twinkle and dance to your eyes, but something I want you to be aware of the presence, regardless.
If there wasn't any tint, then IGI would have graded it as a D.



You can see the tint much easier in this angle:

I see what you’re saying. I wonder how noticeable it is in person. Guess I’ll find out. This felt like it was worth a look at this price!

 

[DejaWiz]

I see what you’re saying. I wonder how noticeable it is in person. Guess I’ll find out. This felt like it was worth a look at this price!

Totally agree!

 

[ariel144]

There is extremely faint brown tint with the 5.72 carat. I don't think it'd affect appearance when it's doing its thing to make light twinkle and dance to your eyes, but something I want you to be aware of the presence, regardless.
If there wasn't any tint, then IGI would have graded it as a D.



You can see the tint much easier in this angle:

Deja, You are imagining things. An F color is colorless and has NO TINT! Nor is there any tint in this video. If there is any tint in any video, then it would have to a GRAY TINT and they all look grayish in every video. Even an E or D has gray tint in a video!

Nor do I see any hint of brown tint where you have circled.In videos all different colors get reflected; so is it really necessary for you to bring this up to the OP? There are more blue reflections in this video so does it also have "blue tint" and "gray tint"?

I do believe that Jon with Distinctive Gem is more of an expert than you and he states that IGI grading is accurate.

Why would you want someone to reject a perfectly icy white F color stone because of your OCD? You think some minuscule reflection you IMAGINE in a video is proof of brown tint? Really? Sorry but I strongly disagree with your opinion on tint.

Why would you want to put that in TSH's mind? Are you really doing her a "favor"? Did it make her fascillate too long and someone else snagged the stone before she could put it on hold?

I'm sure we all saw the inclusion on this stone, including the OP, which is most likely prongable. That is why I never commented on it from the beginning. The only question left is how good is the ASET and the Ideal Scope which will prove how well this stone will perform.

I'm glad TSH put it on hold. Ritani is good about that.

 

[ariel144]

OMG...look at the price on this 5.59 F SI1!!!

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www.gemsny.com

 

[DejaWiz]

ariel144 I never said that she should avoid it...I said she should be aware that there is a very slight tint and I highly doubt that it'll be noticable in real-world conditions (such as being outside of a controlled environment for photography).
I'm all for a well-cut and performing diamond that lands in the E-G range to save a ton of cashola over a D color.

Here is a GIA D colorless:

3.01 Carat round diamond

This 3.01 carat round diamond D color si1 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

Here is a GIA F "colorless":

3.01 Carat round diamond

This 3.01 carat round diamond F color si1 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

 

[ariel144]

ariel144 I never said that she should avoid it...I said she should be aware that there is a very slight tint and I highly doubt that it'll be noticable in real-world conditions (such as being outside of a controlled environment for photography).
I'm all for a well-cut and performing diamond that lands in the E-G range to save a ton of cashola over a D color.

Here is a GIA D colorless:

3.01 Carat round diamond

This 3.01 carat round diamond D color si1 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

Here is a GIA F "colorless":

3.01 Carat round diamond

This 3.01 carat round diamond F color si1 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

"ColorLESS" and "tint" are two different principles in diamond grading IMO. I guess your definition of tint and mine is simply different. If this 5.72 F color was displaying any tint while being graded, it would have been down graded in color by IGI as it would not be in the "colorless" range.

If you go back in the thread TSH was worried about blue tint in the HPHT she was inspecting even though she couldn't see any blue tint IRL...but seeing the orange "fluorescence" in the dark made her send it back because it proved to her that the stone contained boron. I thought that orange glow was so cool! If you can't see blue IRL, does it really matter? It did to her...so she is very sensitive about tint and wanting the "perfect diamond".

I have watched so many of Jon's videos in the past 15+ years and seen lower colored super cut stones look whiter and brighter than higher colored diamonds to know that "cut is definitely king"! So your preference for D, E color is skewing some of your advice to posters on PS IMO.

There are many discussions on PS regarding the issue of "tint" and why so many wish that graders would specify the color of tint when the stone displays "tint". They do specify "faint brown" when a lower colored stone displays "brown tint". Usually in L, K and lower color stones. But I have seen pink tint in H colored stones. I'm only speaking of earth mined diamonds.

Although I did find a 3c K colored LGD which did specify "faint brown" for $3k. Personally I prefer "faint brown" tint to yellow tint...so I wanted to see that K "faint brown" in person. (My plan was to have it recut into an OEC). I could not see brown in any light...it only looked more steely in color IRL although it was rated "Ideal"...."steely" like an earth mined L 3c I had seen years ago. In daylight that K faced up very white and bright because of the good cut. But then I found my 3.45 G SI1 (NO TINT! Ha!) super ideal at a great price so I sent the K back. GemsNY refunded my money to PayPal in 2 days. So they are a very trustworthy company.

If "faint brown" is not noted on the report it will not specify tint color as it is almost always yellow. Lots of lower colored LGD have yellow tint unless they are the HPHT type. But I have seen a ideal cut J CVD that had no tint in the video. Then I've seen J color with lots of yellow tint.

Here is an interesting story from years ago on PS. The OP posting had a newly cut AVR which was an N color and was at a football game with friends. A friend commented on how beautiful her diamond was and so the women started comparing their diamonds. One had a large D color diamond but her stone was not as bright and white facing and beautiful as the N color AVR. And so she looked confused and disappointed in her ring because her diamond was not as gorgeous as that LOW colored AVR!!. Yes, shocking to those who think E, D color makes a more beautiful diamond. Or a GIA report makes a "better" diamond.

What you don't know about superior cut diamonds you don't know; nor can anyone convince you otherwise that color doesn't really matter when it comes to beauty in diamonds. Until you see the proof with your own two eyes. Cuddo's to Jonathan and his diamond educational videos! Distinctive Gem.com ...wish I could afford an AVR but I'm a size hoe! (I also found I didn't really mind the faceting of the MRB vs and OEC.). One day I will have one though.

Thanks for your input on colorLESS D vs F!

 

[ariel144]

Here's an HPHT G SI1 that has a very slight yellow tint. Interesting. Was surprised to see the cert. AFTER I saw the yellow tint. Normally this LGD type only have blue tint.

GemsNY Reviews - The Best Jeweler Online

www.gemsny.com

 

[DejaWiz]

TSH sending back the previous diamond is precisely why I am doing my best to point these kinds of things out...so she can avoid getting stuck in a repeating cycle of
1. Purchase
2. Inspect
3. Return
4. Wait for a refund

Hue = color pigment
Tint = pigment mixed with white

Now, maybe I'm using "tint" incorrectly by assuming that it's acceptable since diamonds have a knack for white light return.
If I am incorrect, then consider myself corrected and I'll use the term "hue" going forward.

GIA allows either yellow or brown in their standard D-Z color scale.
IGI...who knows? We're talking about a completely different lab, so there's real potential for different methodology standards and practices.

LGD introduces a few different and interesting anomalies, such as color hue nuances (I've seen blue and green disclosed on IGI reports for HPHT method diamonds).
CVD with PGT...well, there are a few things to watch out for, there.

Jon's SoR videos are fantastic...I recommend his YouTube channel (as well as JannPaul's) to lots of folks that I engage with in discussions about diamond shopping and education.

 

[twosanguinehearts]

@DejaWiz @ariel144 I SO appreciate all of the feedback I’ve been getting in this thread, I can’t even tell you! The fact that so many people have been willing to go on this journey with me and not go totally mad is pretty unbelievable. LOL

Clearly finding a mind clean diamond is difficult for me, so I appreciate the callouts of traits that might result in the pattern noted above. That said, I fully admit that perhaps it’s a bit much to hold out so long to find that “perfect” stone. I will say that if this particular 5.72 diamond wasn’t such a stellar price, I might have nixed it due to the HCA “very good” scores in three categories. I think it’s worth a look though, and perhaps I’ll be very happily surprised!

At the end of the day I’m just looking for that unicorn stone that has an insane cut, faces up bright white, makes me feel like I got a FAB deal and doesn’t make me question whether I’m seeing hue or reflection. I would truly LOVE to post a happy ending to this very long thread one day soon. Ha!!!