will Obama be a good President?

[FrekeChild]

Basically what Moon and Starset said about Clinton. I actually used to be a fan, albeit a very young one (I was 10 when he first was elected) but all I saw was the charisma and the perfect little family with a daughter who was around my age. As I got older, I still liked his charisma and his Southern charm, but something started to feel off. I am like Moon in a lot of ways-her feelings towards people later being validated-but with me it''s mostly about relationships-for some reason I can sense the inner workings of relationships even when there are few outward signs.

We all vote with our feelings-I had a post about it-and detailed WHY I have those feelings earlier in this thread.

As for calling Obama the anti-Christ(or pretty much anyone except Hitler-and even then you''d probably p-off some white supremacists) is out of line. That is not answering the question "will Obama be a good president?", nor is it conducive to starting a debate. I would also like to know why she feels this way, but I doubt she''ll answer.

You can bet your booty if I went over to the "President McCain" thread and said, "Does anyone else think McCain is the anti-Christ?" and EVERYONE would be up in arms-and I''d be over in SMTR with SDL.

In other news-look at this ad that John Cusack made regarding McCain/Bush: link

Muy interesante, no?

 

[MoonWater]

OMG JOHN CUSACK!! *faints*

Sucks I''m at work, I want to watch sooo bad.

 

[FrekeChild]

Another thing-have there been any Hillary supporters around here, or is it all McCain or Obama?

Besides the 35 years of "experience" that annoyed me to no end, I have also been irritated by the fact that everyone is adamant that F.P. Clinton hurt Hillary''s campaign and blah blah blah. DUDE. Without HIM, she never would have been ABLE TO RUN in the first place!!!

"Was he an asset or a detriment to her campaign?"
"Well ______, with all of this bad press surrounding him, I would say he''s been a detriment. He messed up in South Carolina, then with the Vanity Fair article, calling people scumbags and everything else he''s done, I would say he has definitely harmed her campaign."

 

[FrekeChild]

I

John Cusack. I think he''s a hottie. (And I have no idea why either!) It''s only about 30 seconds Moon!!!

 

[luckystar112]

I was 8 or 9 when he was running for office the first time.
I knew about the perjury, and after reading the 9/11 commission''s report I knew about the lapse in judgement with terrorism.
For some reason I still always felt like he was well-liked by everyone! I guess in comparison to Bush....

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I would agree with what Diamondfan last wrote. I think people have every right to make statements such as:

I don''t like Obama. I hate liver.

I like rounds better than pears. Cheesecake is yummy and I don''t like lemon pie at all. Abraham Lincoln was a great President.

I can make these kind of statements. They are my opinions and I can choose to justify them or not. I think it is wise to choose our words very carefully, however.

 

[luckystar112]

I never thought I''d ever say this about Hillary, but I actually feel bad for her for not winning. The rest of the time I just contemplate if she''s part human part machine.

But, I always feel bad for the loser! I felt really bad for Huckabee too.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Date: 6/12/2008 11:50:43 AM
Author: diamondfan
NEL, I agree mostly with this, however, sometimes there are intangibles and one cannot ''back up'' a sense or feeling with data and facts. It is called intuition or a gut instinct, and certainly information can be part of that, but there is an element that is sometimes not easy to define. We are come to our conclusions in ways that make sense to us.

Gut? Huh?

I kid...my brain just doesn''t know it exist. Or maybe my gut is housed in my head, I don''t know I just tend to want to know more about something, read about it and figure out where I fall. There have definitely been times where I''ve felt one way starting out, then changed my opinion. You''re absolutely right, though, about not being pidgeonholed or issues being complex. I think that anybody who blindly follows one party or another simply hasn''t done any independent thinking. If one looks at all of the issues independently and forms his/her own opinion, it''s very, very rare for it to match up to any one candidate.

Ooo, I just saw that John Cusack came up. I heard an interview with him this morning, but just caught the tail end of it. He was talking about his documentary and when the interviewer asked him a question (I believe it was if John felt that the women of Iraq were liberated because of the war? Or something along those lines) and he hung up! I think everybody was in shock, haha.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Date: 6/12/2008 1:11:48 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I would agree with what Diamondfan last wrote. I think people have every right to make statements such as:

I don''t like Obama. I hate liver.

I like rounds better than pears. Cheesecake is yummy and I don''t like lemon pie at all. Abraham Lincoln was a great President.

I can make these kind of statements. They are my opinions and I can choose to justify them or not. I think it is wise to choose our words very carefully, however.

I know this is off topic, but I find it interesting. See, I can totally relate to the liver, rounds vs. pear, cheesecake, etc. comparisons because those have to do with one''s senses. Aesthetically you like one or the other or you enjoy the taste of some things and not others. But when it comes to something cerebral, something that you have to think about, learn about and believe in, I think there is more substance there. If you don''t like Obama because he doesn''t appeal to you aesthetically, then that''s understandable (not that I''d recommend anybody vote on that), but if you don''t like what he believes in, that requires independent thought. It requires at least some analysis. But maybe that''s just the way I think.

 

[ladypirate]

OK, total tangent here, but did anyone watch The Colbert Report on Monday night? It had a clip from the McLaughlin Group that revealed that Obama would not be the first black president!

http://www.comedycentral.com/colbertreport/videos.jhtml?videoId=172954

The part I''m talking about starts at 3:30.

Seriously, we watched it about 10 times in a row (thanks TiVo!) because it was so ludicrous. We then went back and watched the full McLaughlin Group and while John McLaughlin did qualify what he said, it''s still one of those "huh?" moments. Even Pat Buchanan wouldn''t touch it.

 

[ladypirate]

Date: 6/12/2008 1:22:03 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady

Date: 6/12/2008 1:11:48 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I would agree with what Diamondfan last wrote. I think people have every right to make statements such as:

I don''t like Obama. I hate liver.

I like rounds better than pears. Cheesecake is yummy and I don''t like lemon pie at all. Abraham Lincoln was a great President.

I can make these kind of statements. They are my opinions and I can choose to justify them or not. I think it is wise to choose our words very carefully, however.

I know this is off topic, but I find it interesting. See, I can totally relate to the liver, rounds vs. pear, cheesecake, etc. comparisons because those have to do with one''s senses. Aesthetically you like one or the other or you enjoy the taste of some things and not others. But when it comes to something cerebral, something that you have to think about, learn about and believe in, I think there is more substance there. If you don''t like Obama because he doesn''t appeal to you aesthetically, then that''s understandable (not that I''d recommend anybody vote on that), but if you don''t like what he believes in, that requires independent thought. It requires at least some analysis. But maybe that''s just the way I think.

I totally agree, NEL. The idea of disliking someone for no reason (other than that you "just do") is really strange to me.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 6/12/2008 1:22:03 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady

Date: 6/12/2008 1:11:48 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I would agree with what Diamondfan last wrote. I think people have every right to make statements such as:

I don't like Obama. I hate liver.

I like rounds better than pears. Cheesecake is yummy and I don't like lemon pie at all. Abraham Lincoln was a great President.

I can make these kind of statements. They are my opinions and I can choose to justify them or not. I think it is wise to choose our words very carefully, however.

I know this is off topic, but I find it interesting. See, I can totally relate to the liver, rounds vs. pear, cheesecake, etc. comparisons because those have to do with one's senses. Aesthetically you like one or the other or you enjoy the taste of some things and not others. But when it comes to something cerebral, something that you have to think about, learn about and believe in, I think there is more substance there. If you don't like Obama because he doesn't appeal to you aesthetically, then that's understandable (not that I'd recommend anybody vote on that), but if you don't like what he believes in, that requires independent thought. It requires at least some analysis. But maybe that's just the way I think.

No, I think this way too NEL. Most people I know do too(of course they are sociology grad students or undergrad Psych students for the most part, but whatever). I love creme brulee, but I don't like raw broccoli. But I can explain why even with that-but yes it does have to do with one's senses. However with deciding whether or not you like someone (anyone really-doesn't have to be a political figure) you're constantly taking in information about them and making judgments on that information. Human beings are so much more complex than, for instance, food. If we had to base our judgments on people the way we do food, our society would be very different indeed. With food or aesthetic things, you can usually tell within an instant whether or not you like something. Some people can do that too, but with people a first impression can be very wrong or very right. But people can have a skewed opinion of other people because of the influence of other people's opinion of the person in judgment. You know what I'm saying? (I'm starting to talk in circles like Marx and Hegel...this is going to be one long month...)

Analysis is the key word here. Why, what, who, where, when and how are all valid questions that we should be asking ourselves-and expect to be asked. At least, that's my opinion.

 

[diamondfan]

Some people are better at articulating why they do not feel a certain way, why they like or dislike something. Some have a tougher time with it. I respect someone's view, and though I might prefer "I hate liver because it is slimy and reminds me of what a bad cook my mom was" I certainly can deal with someone just saying "I do not like the taste of it" I do tend to be a curious person, so I am often very intrigued by how views are formulated. But I certainly do not feel someone must make it clear to me in a way I understand. Meaning, if they feel they have explained their view and do not wish to belabor it, I just think it is silly to continue to demand it for someone else's satisfaction...

I totally agree that humans are complex and that it is more involved that not liking the taste of liver. There are many variables involved and a sentient being would utilize those, even if there are some intangibles in there too. Again, I just feel that hammering someone until YOU like their reasoning is ludicrous.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Date: 6/12/2008 1:36:31 PM
Author: ladypirate
OK, total tangent here, but did anyone watch The Colbert Report on Monday night? It had a clip from the McLaughlin Group that revealed that Obama would not be the first black president!

http://www.comedycentral.com/colbertreport/videos.jhtml?videoId=172954

The part I''m talking about starts at 3:30.

Seriously, we watched it about 10 times in a row (thanks TiVo!) because it was so ludicrous. We then went back and watched the full McLaughlin Group and while John McLaughlin did qualify what he said, it''s still one of those ''huh?'' moments. Even Pat Buchanan wouldn''t touch it.

I ended up watching the whole skit (hilarious). The uncomfortable moment when McLaughlin said "you act as though Obama would be the first black president" and the woman laughed...then realized he was not joking was HILARIOUS! Seriously, what can you possibly say to that? Laughing was the only reasonable response.

 

[MoonWater]

First I have to say I''m totally with NEL, LP and Freke on the feelings issue. Again, I think regardless of whether you want to justify your feelings, you have to expect that when you state those feelings publically others will ask you "why?" and you shouldn''t complain when someone asks.

Freke, I agree that Hillary wouldn''t be in this position had it not been for Bill, however, I also think he did some serious damage to her campaign. Part of me wonders if it was intentional. I just can not believe some of the things he said. For someone who use to be a master politician, he sure screwed up badly. Here read this for an interesting view: http://www.slate.com/id/2193046/

Re: John Cusack *swoon* I''ve loved him since I was a kid. But I don''t think he''s aging too well. I''ve always referred to him as my future husband. I think I should give that title to Christian Bale now *double swoon*

ahem..I''m sorry, is this a political discussion?

 

[ladypirate]

Date: 6/12/2008 1:59:44 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady

Date: 6/12/2008 1:36:31 PM
Author: ladypirate
OK, total tangent here, but did anyone watch The Colbert Report on Monday night? It had a clip from the McLaughlin Group that revealed that Obama would not be the first black president!

http://www.comedycentral.com/colbertreport/videos.jhtml?videoId=172954

The part I''m talking about starts at 3:30.

Seriously, we watched it about 10 times in a row (thanks TiVo!) because it was so ludicrous. We then went back and watched the full McLaughlin Group and while John McLaughlin did qualify what he said, it''s still one of those ''huh?'' moments. Even Pat Buchanan wouldn''t touch it.

I ended up watching the whole skit (hilarious). The uncomfortable moment when McLaughlin said ''you act as though Obama would be the first black president'' and the woman laughed...then realized he was not joking was HILARIOUS! Seriously, what can you possibly say to that? Laughing was the only reasonable response.

OMG, I know--Kris was laughing so hard he had tears streaming down his face, and he''s one of those people who almost NEVER laughs out loud at tv shows or movies, even if he thinks they''re funny. My favorite part is the grin on Colbert''s face when he''s repeating what McLaughlin just said--it''s like he can''t believe it either!

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 6/12/2008 1:54:07 PM
Author: diamondfan
Some people are better at articulating why they do not feel a certain way, why they like or dislike something. Some have a tougher time with it. I respect someone's view, and though I might prefer 'I hate liver because it is slimy and reminds me of what a bad cook my mom was' I certainly can deal with someone just saying 'I do not like the taste of it' I do tend to be a curious person, so I am often very intrigued by how views are formulated. But I certainly do not feel someone must make it clear to me in a way I understand. Meaning, if they feel they have explained their view and do not wish to belabor it, I just think it is silly to continue to demand it for someone else's satisfaction...

I totally agree that humans are complex and that it is more involved that not liking the taste of liver. There are many variables involved and a sentient being would utilize those, even if there are some intangibles in there too. Again, I just feel that hammering someone until YOU like their reasoning is ludicrous.

I understand that DF. I think I'm with Moon on this one though:

"Again, I think regardless of whether you want to justify your feelings, you have to expect that when you state those feelings publicly others will ask you "why?" and you shouldn't complain when someone asks."

I really do feel that if someone walks into somewhere and says something that is THAT strongly worded, then they should have at least one equally strong reason behind it. I understand saying, "I just feel that way because I have that instinct." or whatever to something like "I think John Cusack is hot." But to come in and make a statement like, "Obama is the anti-Christ" and to only justify that with "an uneasy feeling and rubs me the wrong way" is a bit under justifiable.

And it's not justification for justifications sake- its more like, "What did he do? Did he do something that I don't know about? Did something happen? Is there something out there that I should know? Is there something out there that would change my mind?" instead of an instant attack ("Why do you think that?") against a person. Saying something like "Obama is the anti-Christ because he hates white people" (which is not true by any means) but there is information out there that could lead someone to think in that manner-so that is understandable.

I just know that if I walked into the "President McCain" thread and said, "McCain is the anti-Christ" I'd better have some d@*m good reasons to back it up. (And FYI, "because he's old" doesn't work over there.

)

 

[MoonWater]

OK, I am so jealous of everyone that can view this skit!! I want to go home already!

Ooh and this was released. Obama supporters, pass it on: Fight The Smears

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 6/12/2008 2:34:39 PM
Author: FrekeChild


And it's not justification for justifications sake- its more like, 'What did he do? Did he do something that I don't know about? Did something happen? Is there something out there that I should know? Is there something out there that would change my mind?' instead of an instant attack ('Why do you think that?') against a person. Saying something like 'Obama is the anti-Christ because he hates white people' (which is not true by any means) but there is information out there that could lead someone to think in that manner-so that is understandable.

EXACTLY, EXACTLY, EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!

And LOL at the McCain comment. Word!

 

[Erin]

I know there are people who understand what was written about the coming of the antichrist that can, with Nostradamus prediction style, correlate Obama and the coming, in the same way that people can link Lincoln with Kennedy - who's secretaries? were Kennedy and Lincoln???

Anyway, whether I choose to BELIEVE it or not, someone 'could' have a very sound argument for Obama being the evil incarnate

Thanks, LadyPirate.

And then we would discuss.

But to come in and say, "Whateveah - I do what I want," because of a gut instinct doesn't make for a very interesting discussion and teaches no one.

Before I get flamed, let me add the above statement is not about HOH4J, it is about all the posts in Around the World that make a generalized statement and then add no explanation

 

[HeadOverHeels4James]

So you can tell me that you have NEVER disliked someone just because?

 

[Erin]

If I am being 100% honest? No. That would be judging without evidence.

Everyone starts out at the top of the class in my book. Their present actions (not even their past, so much) will ultimately form my impresson.

 

[HeadOverHeels4James]

I find that very hard to beileve.. everyone judges

 

[MoonWater]

Beware of the "terrorist fist jab" http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/09/fox-anchor-calls-obama-fi_n_106027.html

 

[Erin]

Date: 6/12/2008 3:03:54 PM
Author: MoonWater
Beware of the ''terrorist fist jab'' http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/09/fox-anchor-calls-obama-fi_n_106027.html

Jeez. Could they reduce this election to anything further from ''the issues?''

We Report - You Decide. Fox News Sucks. I will elaborate if you''re interested...

 

[HeadOverHeels4James]

I think Obama tries to be to hip and cool. I personally want a leader that takes his job seriously, and is professional. I just feel like he tries to hard to be relateable(?not sure if its a word) to young people.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 6/12/2008 2:57:45 PM
Author: HeadOverHeels4James
So you can tell me that you have NEVER disliked someone just because?

No. Because if there is a first impression (which happens within about 10 seconds of meeting someone) there is time for a second impression. Yes, I have disliked people on sight-BUT they have always proven my instant dislike or disproven it because I have taken time (even 30 seconds) to get a better feel for this person.

I'm guessing that you get the feeling that you don't like him, but there is so much information out there (unfortunately everywhere) in this day and age, that the information has cemented your initial feeling. I mean, how can you not be exposed to more than just a tiny bit of a politician, especially right now when even MTV and E! are covering politics?

For instance, we just had our state primaries. I don't like Steve Pearce because of my instinct (I didn't like Heather Wilson either-but there are a lot of years and incidents behind that reasoning) but his commercials only cemented that gut instinct. Have I met the guy? No. Have I done research on him? No. Do I know more than "just a feeling"? Yes.

And I'm betting that this is true for you as well.

ETA: I do believe that you have proven my point-that it is not actually just a feeling, but that there is concrete reasoning behind your feelings as well. Please feel free to elaborate-I'm very interested in what you have to say.

(This is genuine interest, no smarmy attempts to try to pin you against the wall. I promise!)

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 6/12/2008 3:03:54 PM
Author: MoonWater
Beware of the 'terrorist fist jab' http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/09/fox-anchor-calls-obama-fi_n_106027.html

*Guffaws*

They can't be serious.

ETA: Elaborate Starset!!!!!

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 6/12/2008 3:10:04 PM
Author: HeadOverHeels4James
I think Obama tries to be to hip and cool. I personally want a leader that takes his job seriously, and is professional. I just feel like he tries to hard to be relateable(?not sure if its a word) to young people.

Would you like me to provide you links to his accomplishments to prove to you that he takes his job seriously and to show that he is professional? I think he simply is hip and cool, basically because he''s younger and more connected to the younger generation.

Note: not trying to be mean or insulting anyone!!

 

[HeadOverHeels4James]

Well maybe it is just a matter of where you live because all of my friends HATE Obama and think he tries way to hard. He think something is not right with him. My ff it''s VERY STRONGLY against him!