shape
carat
color
clarity

will Obama be a good President?

Discussion in 'Hangout' started by Dancing Fire, Jun 5, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.
  1. Dancing Fire
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    29,996
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    


    


  2. ksinger
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    5,057
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    by ksinger » Jun 5, 2008
    Nope. YOU need to put forth something before we "discuss" this. You opened this - so what do you think and why?

    I''m assuming you want a discussion and not just something where you can interject a one-liner here and there and then bail?
     
  3. Erin
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,783
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2004
    by Erin » Jun 5, 2008
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  4. surfgirl
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    4,438
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2007
    by surfgirl » Jun 5, 2008
    Word to your entire post Karen.

    DF, your one-liner, one-word provocations have become tiresome. You do it on other forum areas as well. If you have something to say, please do say it. Otherwise dont waste people''s time. It''s cowardly to throw out these little one word, one sentence posts, with your little emoticons to boot, then not engage in any meaningful discussion.
     
    


    


  5. partgypsy
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    6,114
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2004
    by partgypsy » Jun 5, 2008
    Hell ya''.


    (there''s your one liner)
     
  6. MoonWater
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    3,158
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2007
    by MoonWater » Jun 5, 2008
    Word to these two. It''s ridic.
     
  7. surfgirl
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    4,438
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2007
    by surfgirl » Jun 5, 2008
    ETA: DF, you asked on another thread why there seem to be only "Dems" on this area and I think it''s because the 2-3 non-Democrat PSers who sometimes post here, seem to always weigh in with semi-hysterical "Limbaugh-esque" comments that have no basis in reality, and then when they''re asked to back up their comments with facts, they disappear from the thread. I know I''d be happy to have an open, honest, respectful conversation about issues like why I think Obama would be a good President, but only if both sides are open to really listening and hearing each other. I think the current regular posters in this area of the forum, although mostly on the same side of the fence, are heavy on basing their comments with facts and links to supporting information, and I appreciate that. If you have something to share, you have to be ready to really explain yourself, this isn''t a "drive by" area of the forum. [​IMG]

    So please, if you want to talk about this, share your viewpoints first so we have a reference point from which to have our discussion...
     
  8. diamondfan
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    11,016
    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2005
    by diamondfan » Jun 5, 2008
    I think he is brilliant, but at the end of the day do not think he has the depth of experience. That comes over time. I am not sure I think she would have been any better. However, I find that while he is telegenic and a great orator in his style of delivery, I do not find he says much of substance. I also found that he really was NOT different, politically speaking, than any candidate running for office. He wants this (which is fine) and thus had to do and say things in damage control, just like ANY politico would. Again, he has charisma and is clearly intelligent and focused, all good qualities, but there is a little something slippery and insincere about him to me.

    Watching Obama and Hillary do battle with each other, the sniping and posturing, has been distasteful. It was draining. And I just do not think SHE should have walked away back in the day, she had millions of supporters and but for the math of the delegates and the super delegate system, she might have garnered enough votes. I am sure campaigning is miserable and exhausting. Either one of the them would make history getting the nomination and stakes are very high. This country is in a shambles economically and the war is terrible, but more of this process was about their stabbing at one another. I blame the process the Dem''s utilized, but in the end, it left a bad taste. That said, I believe he will take the whole enchilada and I pray he accepts where he is more green and appoints wonderful people in the cabinet. I hope he can do an amazing job, though goodness knows the shoes he is filling are NOT big at all.
     
  9. Erin
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,783
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2004
    by Erin » Jun 5, 2008
    I would like that, too. I feel so strongly algined with the Democratic nominees' ideals that I cannot understand even giving McCain more than a hour's consideration.
    Anyone who says this country is in good condition right now is crazy.
    Everything points to McCain continuing this streak.
    Who wants more of this "less jobs, more war" crap besides the people making money off the war?

    Help me understand DF [​IMG]
     
  10. musey
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    11,242
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    by musey » Jun 5, 2008
    I recommend that anyone with these (very legitimate) concerns read his books, most importantly the more recent The Audacity of Hope. Admitting his shortcomings and surrounding himself with others who will provide him with a stronger base of knowledge in areas where he is somewhat lacking... this is something he believes strongly in.

    I would personally much rather have a leader who is a green idealist but surrounds himself with people who have more political experience, than one who's had enough life experience to become embittered on some fronts.

    That is to say, I'd rather approach situations with a fresh idealist perspective that has to be brought down to earth, than with a seasoned/embittered perspective that may have no room for the hopeful idealism that tends to inspire change and new approaches.


    That may all be part of the "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain" thing, though.
     
    


    


  11. MichelleCarmen
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    15,880
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2003
    by MichelleCarmen » Jun 5, 2008
    Yep, these threads bug me too! At least there isn't any more eye rolling.
     
  12. Dancing Fire
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    29,996
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    by Dancing Fire » Jun 5, 2008
    Karen,SG and MC...
    the reason i ask this Q cuz i don''t know anything about Obama,good or bad. i''ll say this though...if he plans on raising taxes "he ain''t getting my vote"
     
  13. musey
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    11,242
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    by musey » Jun 5, 2008
    This seems to be one of the fundamental differences between which candidate one stands behind... vested interest in the betterment of our society, or vested interest in keeping our "own" money.
     
  14. FrekeChild
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    19,456
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2007
    by FrekeChild » Jun 5, 2008
    I also think the one liners are the ick.

    Why don't you go read his wiki page and come back with a legit question instead of asking such a generalized question?

    I would like to echo musey on this. I think that raising taxes is the least of our concerns right now. If it would help us get out of this economic wasteland Bush helped put us in, I'm all for it.

    ETA: I'll even give you the link.
     
  15. Dancing Fire
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    29,996
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    by Dancing Fire » Jun 5, 2008
    the econ always goes in cycles it doesn't matter who's Prez.

    ETA; and you making crazy comments like.... Who knows if he'll make it to November. The man is not in good health. And I'm not talking about his cancer.
     
    


    


  16. FrekeChild
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    19,456
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2007
    by FrekeChild » Jun 5, 2008
    Well the billions he spent on a certain war in Iraq didn''t help did it?

    Thanks China! We appreciate you lending us money!

    link

    Yes it cycles, but I believe we had a surplus when he came into office...
     
  17. surfgirl
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    4,438
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2007
    by surfgirl » Jun 5, 2008
    I just never understand this mentality DF. You do realize that taxes are what provide drinking water, paved roads, police and fire/EMT/life guard services, public schools, some public universities, etc. Taxes are what run our country. When politicians pander to those who are tax-phobic, acting like taxes are evil, it's just bizarre to me. Without taxes, we'd all be running around like animals, trying to make basic services work for ourselves. With taxes, communities, towns, cities, the country, are run with services that while not completely uniform, are relatively accessible nationwide. We have so many problems in this country, I have no problem with a little taxation as long as it is used wisely and for the most needed purposes.

    ETA: Saying that the economy goes in cycles and is not reflective of any particular President's administration and its policies is IMO, both naive and a complete cop out. The last President had stock piled significant financial resources for this country. The current President has not only squandered those resources, I believe in total, but continued to spend billions, no trillions, that we do not have as a country. So if you voted for Bush, and I think you probably did based on your comments, then if we need to raise taxes to re fill the coffers, we can thank you and those who voted for Bush twice. So saying you wont vote for someone who raises taxes, because we surely need the revenue from your President's squandering of resources, well, that's rather ironic to me.
     
  18. MoonWater
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    3,158
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2007
    by MoonWater » Jun 5, 2008
    In this country, taxes are inevitable. Instead of crying about the amount, you should be crying about the lack of transparency. I don''t mind being taxed. What I do mind is not knowing where my tax dollars are going. I know where they should go, but I also know that some politicians abuse the use of tax dollars. Why this isn''t a higher concern over actually being taxed is beyond me.

    I also don''t understand how during this entire process, one has not learned a darn thing about the candidates. You really didn''t care to learn until now? Really? Geez.
     
  19. LAJennifer
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,014
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    by LAJennifer » Jun 5, 2008

    I don''t know. I haven''t yet decided my vote. However, the following is a copy of a post (by me) in the Obama Speech thread to which no one commented on. I hope he isn''t just an empty suit.




    My husband and I are thinking of relocating to Chicago - so I sometimes check out real estate and newspapers to see what is going on. Today, I came across this article http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/health/875048,CST-NWS-hosp03.article . It is about a possible closing of a hospital that can no longer cover operating costs - and I quote from the article:

    "Half of its emergency room patients and one of every four patients admitted to the hospital either have no health insurance or are covered by Medicaid, SSM said. Platt said Medicaid reimbursement levels in Illinois haven''t been increased in 15 years.


    "Most of the people without insurance cannot afford to pay us anything, and Medicaid pays us less than what it costs us to provide care," Ryan said. "No hospital can survive over the long term without being able to cover its costs."


    Since Obama represents Illinois, I looked on his site to see what he has to say about the subject (from http://obama.senate.gov/issues/health_care/ ):


    "Medicaid is the nation''s health safety net. Over 53 million Americans of all ages, including 2 million Illinoisans, rely on Medicaid for their health care. As a member of the Senate''s Medicaid Working Group, Senator Obama will continue the fight to strengthen Medicaid, as well as help providers who care for large numbers of poor and uninsured patients."


    Things that make you go hmmmm . . .
     
  20. MoonWater
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    3,158
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2007
    by MoonWater » Jun 5, 2008
    OMG, exactly! I just don''t get these types of personalities. And what''s with ONLY caring about taxes?!?! None of the other problems of this country resonate with you? [​IMG]
     
  21. NewEnglandLady
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    6,297
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2007
    by NewEnglandLady » Jun 5, 2008
    I never chiime in on these conversations because I'm a strict constitutionalist and have unpopular opinions, but, DF, I would highly recommend you do some research on where the candidates stand on taxes, notably Obama's stance on the capital-gains tax rate.

    ETA: I don't mean to be rude, but it would be nice if you educated yourself about the issues you want to discuss before creating a thread so that you could contribute and not just say things off the cuff because that's how you "feel". I don't understand how you can create a political view unless you educate yourself about issues from both sides of the fence FIRST.
     
  22. FrekeChild
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    19,456
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2007
    by FrekeChild » Jun 5, 2008
    Nicely said surfgirl.
     
  23. Dancing Fire
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    29,996
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    by Dancing Fire » Jun 5, 2008
    hey,if we can survive the Carter years we''ll survive.

    as for the surplus....Bill Clinton got lucky when he became Prez. we had an up trend economy cuz of the high tech boom. i could of ran the country during that period of time.
     
  24. diamondfan
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    11,016
    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2005
    by diamondfan » Jun 5, 2008
    Musey, I totally agree some freshness, with skill, would be great. The same old same old is not cutting it.

    I also feel paying taxes is important, I would prefer not to have them hiked but would like to know where they go. I think there is waste in government and we could trim and reallocate. That might be worth investigating too.
     
  25. FrekeChild
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    19,456
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2007
    by FrekeChild » Jun 5, 2008
    You should go through this.

    And this.

    And this.

    And then you can come back and ask questions.

    I really can''t believe that you have made it through 16+ months without knowing anything about him. Like the fact that he''s half African for instance. And that he was raised by his white mother and grandparents in Hawaii. Or millions of other little facts and blurbs.

    Do you not have a TV DF?
     
  26. Erin
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,783
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2004
    by Erin » Jun 5, 2008
    Agreed. But also, with Obama's history in Illinois, some of his top priorities are to look at the way the government spends our money and make necessary cuts. Our government spending needs a Kaizen to make it lean and efficient. Sure he's going to raise taxes. We can't make these changes with air.

    If you want the same old $H!T, running the same downward spiral, on the road to nowhere, with longterm consequences, keep your taxes and boost the DF economy. I however, want a better future - and I'm willing to pay for it now.

    Some people say all these primary candidate speeches are not worth watching. 'They're just telling you want you wanna hear or prey on your fears.' It's all politics and selling themselves and not an ounce of truth can be accepted as real. Well, when I hear McCain talk, that's exactly what I hear. A man who talks on all the issues: the war, climate change, education, government reform, national security... and it's all the same 'what people wanna hear.'

    When I hear Obama speak? I don't hear a man reciting a speech that someone brilliantly wrote for him to deliver. I see a man who barely needs the telepromter to deliver his message because he knows it, he means it, and he believes it in. I hear a man who's voice has compassion and concern. I hear a man who won't embarrass us in front of foreign leaders. I hear a man who's smart enough and dumb enough to think he can actually MAKE CHANGES in this country. He's not in this race because it's 'his turn' and 'he's earned it.' He has risen above the odds of being a first term Senator - barely known outside of Illinois to bring on a MOVEMENT. He's not a candidate, he's a freaking movement - with the millennial generation registering to vote in droves because of him. This man is inspirational - just the way Kennedy inspired. It will be hard for him to not follow through because he has this movement behind him - holding him accountable and helping along the way. We want change and I think Obama is the only candidate who will come through.
     
  27. FrekeChild
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    19,456
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2007
    by FrekeChild » Jun 5, 2008
    Very well said Starset. He has inspired an otherwise incredibly selfish generation and that alone is amazingly admirable.

    Did anyone else notice that the other day after the speech McCain read "That''s not change we can believe in." that Obama didn''t read any teleprompters or notes for his acceptance speech?
     
  28. diamondfan
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    11,016
    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2005
    by diamondfan » Jun 5, 2008
    He invigorated the young to come out and register and be interested, which if nothing else would have happened is amazing. Many young people do not get into the political process too much and this is helping turn the trend.
     
  29. MoonWater
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    3,158
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2007
    by MoonWater » Jun 5, 2008
    Ok, you found an issue you don''t think he has fully addressed, I assume this is important to you? I can''t seem to follow your logic that because he hasn''t properly addressed this particular issue, that he is somehow or could be just an empty suit. That would be deliberately ignoring the things he has accomplished. I highly recommend you write him a letter, or, once you and your husband arrive in Chicago, get a group started to garnish more attention.
     
  30. MoonWater
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    3,158
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2007
    by MoonWater » Jun 5, 2008
    Couldn't agree with your ETA more.

    I need to keep a tally here with Dancing Fire:

    1) Reagan freed the hostages in Iran
    2) Bill just got lucky

    lol
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.

Share This Page