will Obama be a good President?

[ladypirate]

Well, just watched Crossfire (Oh Keith Olbermann, you are so my celebrity crush!) and the new poll shows Obama leading McCain in all the groups he was weakest with against Clinton. It''ll be interesting to see the spin on it over the next few days.

Link to NBC/WSJ Poll Results

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/11/2008 6:18:45 PM
Author: swimmer
So for DF, here is wikipedia on Sam Nunn he is also Jimmy Carter''s pick...but that doesn''t mean much these days. He has always been a southern conservative dem, but the no nukes work is in his favor. Sadly for Nunn, Aristide didn''t work out so well for the Haitian people. But he certainly has credibility...Obama would of course have to drop that whole ''change'' part of his campaign for a 70 yr old insider on his ticket. Come to think of it, Georgia, what about Max Cleveland? He lost his limbs in Vietnam for goodness sake. But he is close with McCain. Hm, that would attract a lot of crossover Dems to a Rep ticket...

that''s the reason i bring up his name. maybe he can talk some sense into the Iranian president''s head.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 6/11/2008 6:18:45 PM
Author: swimmer
Freke, so I used to live in a Socialist community, (kibbutz), and my father is a Communist history prof, so of course I teach history too, but my focus is more Eastern. If you need something clarified that is my pleasure! My students got me a t-shirt with Marx, Engels, Stalin, Lenin, and Mao on it while we were in China recently. I <3 it so much I hate to wear it. Its a weird green too.

Awesome, thanks swimmer! I really appreciate it!! I bet I''ll have some questions, because this stuff is kind of complex!!!

 

[Erin]

So Obama picks Jim Johnson to vet his veeps. He has been involved as a top inside political player in almost every Democratic general-election campaign. The problem is Johnson made hundreds of millions, perfectly legally, as the leader of Fannie Mae and got favorable rates on three home mortgages totaling $1.7 million in the midst of the subprime mortgage crisis. Johnson is the very embodiment of the world the Obama camp has been running against: a fabulously wealthy man who had gotten that way by manipulating the tangled strings of money and power in the capital.

Obama said in a statement “Jim did not want to distract in any way from the very important task of gathering information about my vice presidential nominee, so he has made a decision to step aside that I accept. We have a very good selection process underway, and I am confident that it will produce a number of highly qualified candidates for me to choose from in the weeks ahead. I remain grateful to Jim for his service and his efforts in this process.”

McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds emails: "Jim Johnson's resignation raises serious questions about Barack Obama's judgment. Selecting the vice presidential nominee is the most important decision a presidential candidate can make and one even Barack Obama has said will 'signal how I want to operate my presidency.' By entrusting this process to a man who has now been forced to step down because of questionable loans, the American people have reason to question the judgment of a candidate who has shown he will only make the right call when under pressure from the news media. America can't afford a president who flip-flops on key questions in the course of 24 hours. That's not change we can believe in."

On one hand I think, well, he's experienced at vetting veeps, it's a volunteer job - not being paid by the campaign, and he's well connected to dig up the dirt that's needed to make the right selection. On the other hand, he does represent the big money, in the pockets Washington insider, rich get richer/poor get poorer, government UNCHANGE that Obama is supposedly standing for.

Some people are saying AHA! slowly but surely 'the Messiah' is showing us who he really is. Someone with lack of experience and poor judgment. Do you think this will play a big part in the election?

 

[HeadOverHeels4James]

Call me crazy... but does anyone feel like Obama is the anti-Christ. He gives me a really uneasy feeling. Does anyone else get these vibes?

 

[ladypirate]

Date: 6/12/2008 10:17:13 AM
Author: HeadOverHeels4James
Call me crazy... but does anyone feel like Obama is the anti-Christ. He gives me a really uneasy feeling. Does anyone else get these vibes?

Umm...no.

 

[Erin]

Date: 6/12/2008 10:17:13 AM
Author: HeadOverHeels4James
Call me crazy... but does anyone feel like Obama is the anti-Christ. He gives me a really uneasy feeling. Does anyone else get these vibes?

You think Obama thinks he was sent here to replace Christ?

 

[HeadOverHeels4James]

I don''t know there is just something about him that just doesn''t seem right. I mean, I think he has tons of great ideas and concepts, and got my generation off their asses to vote! haha I''m just saying as a person something just rubs me the wrong way. UGH I''m having a difficult time conveying my thoughts... I''m not trying to offend anyone, I just have a weird feeling about him.

 

[MoonWater]

Wow...you make reference to the man as possibly the anti-Christ but say you aren''t trying to offend anyone. What can I say?

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 6/12/2008 9:40:15 AM
Author: Starset Princess


Some people are saying AHA! slowly but surely 'the Messiah' is showing us who he really is. Someone with lack of experience and poor judgment. Do you think this will play a big part in the election?

I hope not. There is that contradiction but considering Jim Johnson's history and experience with this position, it's really no wonder why he was chosen. I say oh well, he's gone now. Although I think it sucks if he is one of the best people for the job. I really want Obama to get a good VP.

 

[Erin]

Okay that''s one thing if he gives you the heebie-geebies, but quite another to call him the anti-christ.

 

[HeadOverHeels4James]

The thing is, everyone is entitled to his or her own opinions. I don''t get offended when someone makes a remark about someone I like. I don''t want to piss people off, I''m just stating my feelings. Is this not an open topic?

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 6/12/2008 11:15:58 AM
Author: HeadOverHeels4James
The thing is, everyone is entitled to his or her own opinions. I don''t get offended when someone makes a remark about someone I like. I don''t want to piss people off, I''m just stating my feelings. Is this not an open topic?

This is exactly what I''m talking about. Seriously, I give up.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 6/12/2008 10:17:13 AM
Author: HeadOverHeels4James
Call me crazy... but does anyone feel like Obama is the anti-Christ. He gives me a really uneasy feeling. Does anyone else get these vibes?

HAHAHAHAHA you definitely should have read the thread before posting that. This thread is very pro Obama.

The McCain thread will take you, if you're interested!

 

[Erin]

Date: 6/12/2008 11:15:58 AM
Author: HeadOverHeels4James
The thing is, everyone is entitled to his or her own opinions. I don''t get offended when someone makes a remark about someone I like. I don''t want to piss people off, I''m just stating my feelings. Is this not an open topic?

It is an open topic.

It just means more when someone says, for example, I think Barack Obama is the antichrist because according the Bible the Antichrist is going to be a man in his forties, of Muslim descent and will have people flocking to him because of his promise of hope and world peace. Once he''s in power he will destroy everything.

It does not mean as much to say, I think Barack Obama is the antichrist because that''s how I feel.

So, my question to you is, why do you feel that way?

 

[HeadOverHeels4James]

haha ok ok I get it... I''m VERY new to this politics stuff, so I''m not very good at debating like some of you ladies!

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 6/12/2008 11:23:19 AM
Author: Starset Princess

Date: 6/12/2008 11:15:58 AM
Author: HeadOverHeels4James
The thing is, everyone is entitled to his or her own opinions. I don't get offended when someone makes a remark about someone I like. I don't want to piss people off, I'm just stating my feelings. Is this not an open topic?

It is an open topic.

It just means more when someone says, for example, I think Barack Obama is the antichrist because according the Bible the Antichrist is going to be a man in his forties, of Muslim descent and will have people flocking to him because of his promise of hope and world peace. Once he's in power he will destroy everything.

It does not mean as much to say, I think Barack Obama is the antichrist because that's how I feel.

So, my question to you is, why do you feel that way?

Hi...I'm asking that we not scare the newbie, please! I don't think she that she actually thinks Obama is the antichrist. Maybe her choice of words offended some of you. And she already explained herself, so I don't think she has to anymore. She made a mistake....can you guys forgive her just this once?

HOH4J: You don't have to answer that. If you do, I promise you you'll just be digging yourself in deeper...not matter WHAT you say. So don't say anything. If you would like to talk about politics, just know that it can be a tough crowd sometimes (both ways!).

 

[HeadOverHeels4James]

Thanks LS112! Your a sweetie!

 

[MoonWater]

Starset has been a very balanced Obama supporter in my opinon. She actually wants to have discussions, whether good or bad about the man. So I hardly think she was ''scarying the newbie''. She was simply asking a legit question. What makes her feel the way that she does? I think it would be best if you didn''t biased her against any particular group. I love this us v. them mentality that''s going on now. "join us in the McCain thread to bash Obama" er ok.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Date: 6/12/2008 11:29:12 AM
Author: luckystar112

Date: 6/12/2008 11:23:19 AM
Author: Starset Princess

Date: 6/12/2008 11:15:58 AM
Author: HeadOverHeels4James
The thing is, everyone is entitled to his or her own opinions. I don''t get offended when someone makes a remark about someone I like. I don''t want to piss people off, I''m just stating my feelings. Is this not an open topic?

It is an open topic.

It just means more when someone says, for example, I think Barack Obama is the antichrist because according the Bible the Antichrist is going to be a man in his forties, of Muslim descent and will have people flocking to him because of his promise of hope and world peace. Once he''s in power he will destroy everything.

It does not mean as much to say, I think Barack Obama is the antichrist because that''s how I feel.

So, my question to you is, why do you feel that way?

Hi...I''m asking that we not scare the newbie, please! I don''t think she that she actually thinks Obama is the antichrist. Maybe her choice of words offended some of you. And she already explained herself, so I don''t think she has to anymore. She made a mistake....can you guys forgive her just this once?

HOH4J: You don''t have to answer that. If you do, I promise you you''ll just be digging yourself in deeper...not matter WHAT you say. So don''t say anything. If you would like to talk about politics, just know that it can be a tough crowd sometimes (both ways!).

I''ve really enjoyed reading this thread and have to admit that I chuckled a little with the anti-christ comment came out of left field.

In general I think the idea is to state your opinion, then list the reasons you believe your views are valid that way the debate is over something substantive instead of just a "feeling" or a blanket statement without anything to back it up. I don''t think most here think there are any invalid opinion, so you don''t have to go back on what you said HOH4J, but it might be helpful to list in what ways he gives you the heebie-jeebies (on issues? Was it a speech? Something in one of his books?) so that people can give their own interpretation.

 

[MoonWater]

Thank you NEL.

 

[Erin]

Date: 6/12/2008 11:29:12 AM
Author: luckystar112

Date: 6/12/2008 11:23:19 AM

don''t think she that she actually thinks Obama is the antichrist.
She made a mistake....can you guys forgive her just this once?

Well, actually she never admitted to any of this - you did. I thought it was a fair question.

 

[luckystar112]

I wasn''t trying to shed Starset in that light at all, actually.
I merely thought that HOH4J''s comment was the equivalent of stepping into the show me the ring thread and making a comment like asscher''s are wonky. I didn''t want her to feel attacked. I quoted starset''s post because she was the last one who posted, and because she was asking HOH4J to keep on going, when I had a feeling she already felt as though she made a mistake. My comment wasn''t directed at her alone. And to be absolutely truthful, I wasn''t worried about her comments toward a member. Starset is nothing but sweet.
My suggestion that she join the McCain thread was not to create an us vs them rift, but because I figured if she like McCain, we could talk about him there. I don''t know HOW she feels, except that she apparently doesn''t like Obama. If she likes McCain, I wanted to let her know that there is a thread there for her too. I wasn''t trying to imply that she leave this thread, although it came off that way after re-reading it.

And.....I won''t address the rest of your post because Ali has already warned us twice. This forum is more important to me than this thread

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 6/12/2008 11:39:34 AM
Author: NewEnglandLady

I''ve really enjoyed reading this thread and have to admit that I chuckled a little with the anti-christ comment came out of left field.

In general I think the idea is to state your opinion, then list the reasons you believe your views are valid that way the debate is over something substantive instead of just a ''feeling'' or a blanket statement without anything to back it up. I don''t think most here think there are any invalid opinion, so you don''t have to go back on what you said HOH4J, but it might be helpful to list in what ways he gives you the heebie-jeebies (on issues? Was it a speech? Something in one of his books?) so that people can give their own interpretation.

I absolutely agree NEL! I think it''s perfectly fine for her to list her opinion on Obama. But I saw this steering into more of an "Anti-christ" argument. But maybe I''m defensive because my Hitler "comparison" was picked apart over and over again instead of anyone taking my whole statement into account. And the Anti-christ is worse than Hitler. lol.

 

[diamondfan]

NEL, I agree mostly with this, however, sometimes there are intangibles and one cannot "back up" a sense or feeling with data and facts. It is called intuition or a gut instinct, and certainly information can be part of that, but there is an element that is sometimes not easy to define. We are come to our conclusions in ways that make sense to us.

I also believe most people are complex and not simply one totality or the other. It is very hard to pigeonhole people as they can have some amazing traits mixed in some some bad ones, very few people are truly all evil or all good. We all make poor decisions, we all have suffered from faulty judgment, we all have the ability to rationalize our actions. For our leader, however, the good should outweigh the negatives. And I just do not feel we ever know all there is to know about political candidates. We have to make our choice based on certain facts AND our perceptions. I do not think our sense of someone or how they appeal or do not appeal to us can be dismissed out of hand. I am sure we have all met someone and come away thinking, yeah, sounds good but there is something about that person that I just do not trust, cannot put my finger on it but...

It is a mating dance, a best foot forward time, and then damage control as things get uncovered. I think this is sort of the process for ALL candidates...I am different, I will not do X, I will do Y unlike the other guy...I have never done this, etc...then stuff gets revealed and back pedaling occurs. In our instant access to information internet age, I think we now see and know more than voters did a few decades ago. And we have to sift through so much, college thesis papers, past records, statements made years ago when one was young, lapses in judgment...it really is information overload to a certain degree, and not easy to wade through to come to a conclusion.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 6/12/2008 11:44:14 AM
Author: luckystar112
My comment wasn't directed at her alone. And to be absolutely truthful, I wasn't worried about her comments toward a member. Starset is nothing but sweet.

Oh, ok. I get it.

And.....I won't address the rest of your post because Ali has already warned us twice. This forum is more important to me than this thread

You actually successfully addressed my entire post, so there is no "rest" to respond to. Thanks!

/end repsonse to luckystar

This thread actually is not a pro-Obama thread, it simply has a lot of Obama supporters (just as the McCain thread has a lot of McCain supporters). Frankly I welcome the difference of opinions but I do prefer facts/evidence to back up claims about the man. I also agree with DF that some feelings can not be dismissed, but I also think you can offer up reasons for how you came to have those feelings. There are definitely some cases where it's total intuition. I certainly have those moments (hell people have called me psychic on more than one occassion), such as when Bill Clinton ran for the first time. He gave me the freaking creeps and, as it turns out, was a freaking creep. But when you express those types of feelings publically you should be prepared to take people questioning you about it. For instance, how Freke and I were questioned about our feelings regarding McCain's age/health. It's not completely rational but it's a feeling nonetheless. I think we justified that feeling to the best of our ability. But it's obviously not a good enough reason to completey base your opinion of a candidate on.

 

[luckystar112]

I was far too young to care about Clinton pre-Monica, but is that why you consider him a creep?
I thought he was loved by most?

ETA: the biased thing.

and P.S. in this post I'm trying to learn from you, so please don't take it the wrong way.

 

[MoonWater]

I''m not sure how old you are but I was 14 when he was running the first time and I remember being quite angry that I wasn''t allowed to vote because I wanted to vote against him. I use to watch the debates and he just gave me the creeps. This was all pre-Monica but it was something about the way he talked and smiled. He reminded me of a child molestor or a rapist (now imagine if I had said that publically with no evidence to back it up lol, my god, I can only imagine). But it''s true, he gave me a sexual predator feeling. So when all the sex scandals came out...well I felt like my feeling had been validated.

 

[Erin]

The climate during the Clinton era was good - without Clinton ever having to take any action to make it so. Clinton was charismatic. Most people were happy and making money and paying good fuel costs. Let''s see, there was NAFTA (which could lead to a global economic mess) and we were in the black.

But he lied to the grand jury - perjury. He pardoned a bunch of questionable people. Testifiers? mysteriously died during the times of "the scandal"... More women than just Monica claimed to be inappropriate with him, he screwed up on decisions which could have prevented future terrorism...

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 6/12/2008 12:37:25 PM
Author: Starset Princess
The climate during the Clinton era was good - without Clinton ever having to take any action to make it so. Clinton was charismatic. Most people were happy and making money and paying good fuel costs. Let''s see, there was NAFTA (which could lead to a global economic mess) and we were in the black.

But he lied to the grand jury - perjury. He pardoned a bunch of questionable people. Testifiers? mysteriously died during the times of ''the scandal''... More women than just Monica claimed to be inappropriate with him, he screwed up on decisions which could have prevented future terrorism...

Yes to all of the above! I feel like, at least partially, Clinton lucked out with the climate of the country at the time. So I found it more than a little annoying when Hillary would cite those times as if the Clintons should receive full credit for every great thing that happened in the 90s.