will Obama be a good President?

[ladypirate]

OK, so this is about McCain rather than Obama, but I didn''t want to get flamed for posting it in the conservative McCain thread.

McCain''s First Wife

Maybe everyone else had already heard about this and moved on, but it made me dislike McCain even more than I already did. I respect him for being a war hero and all, but between his pandering to the Republican party the last few years and this, he seems like such a snake!

Gah, I can''t wait to cast my vote for Obama. If McCain gets elected president, I''m going to do what I did in the 2004 election (that is, participate in a group mourning once the results were announced). I can''t imagine another 4 years of the same cr@p we have now.

 

[FrekeChild]

Oh LP, I read about her a long time ago, it is so sad what he did to her and makes me sick that he's the best the Republican's can come up with. I'm not trying to pick on the party or it's supporters by any means, but McCain himself bothers me. Neglecting the age issue, I think he's a little bit of a loose canon, and he has totally flip flopped with a lot of issues trying to be more conservative. But what bothers me most about him is the fact that he seems to fly off the wall and scream at people when he gets angered. I've mentioned the Senator Domenici comments before (Domenici is a uber conservative long time senator from New Mexico) but no one has really commented on it.


WARNING: All of the following links contain expletives.

Here's an article that mentioned a situation in which McCain called Sen. Domenici an @**hole.
From Albuquerque Journal April 28, 2008 I think the most interesting part of the article is the end where Domenici kind of tries to cover his tracks...We heard a LOT about this in NM when it happened being that it was between a representative from here and our closest neighbor (regarding culture and social issues.)

An interesting blog detailing McCain's public outbursts. From February 2008.

Article from April 2008 regarding McCain's comments but especially when he calls his wife the "c" word.

Yeesh...The more I read about the guy, the more I like Mitt Romney, and I think Mitt has the tendency to come off as a little bit of a sleazeball.

ETA: I really think McCain was only after a trophy wife...I mean what else can one deduce from marrying a swimsuit model and then cheating on her and divorcing her when she's lost her figure? And then marrying the woman he was cheating on his first wife with-the beautiful, young and RICH Cindy. Yuck.

 

[ladypirate]

Yeah, he''s not my cup of tea, that''s for sure.

The sad thing is that in 2000, I actually fell for the charisma and charm! I thought, "Hey, a true intellegent moderate who has real values." How sad to be proven so wrong.

Granted, I still supported Gore (and would have even if McCain had gotten the nomination), but I wouldn''t have been so devastated when Bush "won".

BTW, when you and Miracles get together, I want in on the action! That sounds like fun times to be had!

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 6/10/2008 10:12:36 PM
Author: ladypirate
BTW, when you and Miracles get together, I want in on the action! That sounds like fun times to be had!

You mean mayhem?

You're totally invited if we can manage it!!!

ETA: I thought the same thing about McCain back then. I wonder if we've just had the wool pulled over our eyes or if something changed in the past 8 years...

 

[FrekeChild]

BTW I have no problems with cussing. I sound like a sailor in real life. My issue, that I posted about above is the angry behavior that presents itself when McCain assumes he is being attacked. I fear that this could be a remnant of PTSD (which I'm just about positive he has-how could he not after all he went through?) which could potentially happen in the presence of someone who will take great offense to it. Perhaps a leader of another country? That is worrisome to me.

Recently there has been a lot of press given to the fact that Former President Clinton called that Vanity Fair guy a "scumbag" and "slimy" etc., but it's my opinion that he was kind of provoked. I'm not saying that McCain was not provoked, but that perhaps F. P. Clinton is more justified in bad-mouthing a journalist who wrote a very provocative negative article about him.

I should also state that I am no longer a fan of F. P. Clinton, as well as John McCain.

Here's a random musing that BF and I were discussing with my dad as we were watching CNN. My dad was the one who brought it up really, asking what we thought of the economy being the number one issue in this election. Which led to a lecture from him telling us that while the media might tell us that the issues are what voters vote for, but in reality, people vote with instincts, their heart, perceptions of the candidate, and the candidates character or looks before they think about the issues. Of course, party plays into that in a huge way too. But I think that we've seen a lot of this on these various political threads.

So this is part of why I feel the way I do. This is regarding personal character, and my perceptions of it.

I have read a bit about McCain's personal life. He's had almost 72 years to build up dirt. Any politician is going to have a lot of dirt on them when they've been participating in politics as long as he has. I think the POW thing is a terrible thing to have to go through-that left him physically disabled and likely psychologically affected. Coming home to a wife who had changed from a beauty queen to chubby disabled woman and then leaving her for someone younger, beautiful and rich, that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Yelling obscenities at several other government-employed peers (for the most part, other Republican senators, but also a volunteer for his campaign) in heated, and not heated moments in the Senate isn't good. The negative things he's had to say about Bush (in the 2000 campaign ads) and Cheney (over Bush listening to Cheney too much about Iraq) don't leave me with a warm feeling in my tummy either-although much more understandable than the outbursts. I know that a lot of people perceive him as being Bush's 3rd term in office. I've seen him go from being a relatively liberal Republican to a moderate/conservative Republican, and I can't help but think that it's so the Republican party won't reject him as not being one of their own. I know that he didn't even win the Montana Republican primary-in fact he lost to Romney (38%), Ron Paul (25%) and finally McCain (22%) and Huckabee still got 15%. That's worrisome for the McCain supporters IMHO.

I know there is more, but I can't really think right now, and I should be doing homework...

As for Obama, I've read a bit about him as well. I know he was the first black president of the Harvard Law Review. I know he never saw his Kenyan father after the age of ten. He grew up as the *black* son of an essentially single white woman, and then was raised by his grandparents. I know that he and Michelle still have student loans, and that he has 2 daughters. He was partially raised in Indonesia, and when he beat Hillary for the presumptive nomination, Kenyans celebrated in the streets. I know that he tried to fit in where he could and that in high school he would get together with the few other black students in his school and wonder if they would see a black president in their time. I know that he felt as though he didn't fit in with white people, Hispanic people or any other *race* (starred only because this is a social classification) and because he looked mostly black he chose to fit in with the African Americans. I know that he was born in Hawaii. I also know that he's a baby in political terms, having only held a senate office for 3 years. I know that he went to a predominantly black church with which he was motivated to resign from because of political pressure. I also know that he doesn't have any real foreign relation experience except for his upbringing in Indonesia and being half Kenyan. I know that he has to bring the Democrats party back together after such a rough divisive primary season.

The above are my feelings towards the candidates, mostly as people, and not really having anything to do with the issues.

What I know about the President-elect is that he's going to have a hard road ahead of him. The country is in a state of disarray, with the economy in the s-hole, weak international relations, oil prices through the roof, the messed up war in Iraq, the problems in Israel, Palestine and Iran. And that's just the short list.

But enough. I must go study my Classical Sociological Theory. If anyone knows anything about Marx-please, let me know...

 

[ladypirate]

Date: 6/11/2008 12:39:17 AM
Author: FrekeChild
If anyone knows anything about Marx-please, let me know...

Well, Groucho smoked a cigar and had one heck of a pair of eyebrows.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 6/10/2008 6:30:33 PM
Author: KimberlyH

Date: 6/10/2008 11:46:05 AM

Author: MoonWater

Kimberly, thanks for your thoughtful reply.


I think you are right in general about everything you said and it''s definitely understandable. However, I will always have a problem with people that look for the tinest slight and completely focus on that instead of the issue at hand. I enjoy Philosophy and Law, (so maybe that''s my problem), and I can not respond to a post and completely ignore the point being made. As I''m sure you can tell from skimming my posts, I will even break down a person''s post, point by point, in order to make sure I don''t miss anything. A pet peeve of mine is when people flat out ignore the issue/question when they respond. After a while it becomes frustrating and that''s when people start complaining, (to me at least), about insults or what have you. It''s like a red herring. I just want a simple answer to what I''ve said, not a rant on what you found offensive in my post. Most especially since I don''t spend my time nitpicking everything I find personally offensive.


As far as the situation with your friend''s husband, that''s funny. I have that problem with people too, usually with people I don''t know very well. I personally think it''s a frail ego thing because I let that stuff roll off my back, no matter how much I disagree (unless it''s an attack on me as a person and sometimes even then I don''t care), and just move on. But people hold grudges. Fortunately I''ve had many debates with people in online forums and once it was over, we could move on to another topic and talk as usual. It doesn''t always work out that well though, especially in real life situations. But I''m use to having heated political discussions with friends and family and when it''s over, it''s over. No one ever agreed on anything, but no one is giving each other the evil eye either lol. I guess I just really don''t understand people getting bent out of shape over strangers.

I understand your frustration. It''s hard to discuss political issues because people with opposing viewpoints want to hear why not just ''I think X'', and politics are so emotionally driven that sometimes people struggle to put their beliefs into words.


The husband I mentioned knows me reasonably well, I think he''s just used to me taking a backseat when it comes to discussing such issues, because I like to listen and learn. I jumped in because my husband and I had had a similar debate over smoking in public, where I actually had taken the same point-of-view as B, and I learned a lot from what my husband had said, so I was arguing his stance in hopes that I would shed some light for B as to why people feel the opposite as he does. My husband cracked up when they left because of what I had done.


As for people getting bent out of shape, sometimes its hard to be nice to people that you can''t understand, but hopefully it won''t change the need for kindness and respect because we can''t truly hear what others are saying when we argue instead of talking.

I''ve given FF the opposing view point many times, even if I didn''t fully stand behind it, in order to get more info out of him for why he believed what he did. It''s always interesting and I feel like I learn more about the subject than if I had just sat there and nodded in agreement. Not to mention I think some of the opposing questions were legit. He usually explains quite well.

As far as being able to hear others during discussions, that''s one great thing about writing. You can take your time and re-read instead of getting wrapped up in the heat of a verbal discussion.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 6/10/2008 6:57:09 PM
Author: luckystar112

Date: 6/10/2008 11:46:05 AM

Author: MoonWater


Kimberly, thanks for your thoughtful reply.


I think you are right in general about everything you said and it''s definitely understandable. However, I will always have a problem with people that look for the tinest slight and completely focus on that instead of the issue at hand. I enjoy Philosophy and Law, (so maybe that''s my problem), and I can not respond to a post and completely ignore the point being made. As I''m sure you can tell from skimming my posts, I will even break down a person''s post, point by point, in order to make sure I don''t miss anything. A pet peeve of mine is when people flat out ignore the issue/question when they respond. After a while it becomes frustrating and that''s when people start complaining, (to me at least), about insults or what have you. It''s like a red herring. I just want a simple answer to what I''ve said, not a rant on what you found offensive in my post. Most especially since I don''t spend my time nitpicking everything I find personally offensive.


As far as the situation with your friend''s husband, that''s funny. I have that problem with people too, usually with people I don''t know very well. I personally think it''s a frail ego thing because I let that stuff roll off my back, no matter how much I disagree (unless it''s an attack on me as a person and sometimes even then I don''t care), and just move on. But people hold grudges. Fortunately I''ve had many debates with people in online forums and once it was over, we could move on to another topic and talk as usual. It doesn''t always work out that well though, especially in real life situations. But I''m use to having heated political discussions with friends and family and when it''s over, it''s over. No one ever agreed on anything, but no one is giving each other the evil eye either lol. I guess I just really don''t understand people getting bent out of shape over strangers.

Hi Moon.


I''m sorry to interrupt your conversation that probably has absolutely nothing to do with me, but I was wondering if you could please grow up or direct your posts TO ME instead of continuing on with this amazingly ridiculous rant of yours? I mean, since things ''roll off your back'' so easily and all.


Just a thought. Move on, honey.

LMAO...are you serious? There is this great Carly Simon song, it goes..."you''re so vain...I bet you think this song is about you." I was talking about several different people and not just my discussions here. Way to go with being more grown up than me! Trust me, being the direct person that I am, had I had a real problem with you I would have addressed it to your attention. Although, I find it hilarious that I''m accused being insulting with a post like this from you. Oh and please, take your on advice about moving on.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 6/10/2008 9:24:40 PM
Author: ladypirate
OK, so this is about McCain rather than Obama, but I didn''t want to get flamed for posting it in the conservative McCain thread.


McCain''s First Wife


Maybe everyone else had already heard about this and moved on, but it made me dislike McCain even more than I already did. I respect him for being a war hero and all, but between his pandering to the Republican party the last few years and this, he seems like such a snake!


Gah, I can''t wait to cast my vote for Obama. If McCain gets elected president, I''m going to do what I did in the 2004 election (that is, participate in a group mourning once the results were announced). I can''t imagine another 4 years of the same cr@p we have now.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 6/10/2008 10:04:23 PM
Author: FrekeChild
Oh LP, I read about her a long time ago, it is so sad what he did to her and makes me sick that he''s the best the Republican''s can come up with. I''m not trying to pick on the party or it''s supporters by any means, but McCain himself bothers me. Neglecting the age issue, I think he''s a little bit of a loose canon, and he has totally flip flopped with a lot of issues trying to be more conservative. But what bothers me most about him is the fact that he seems to fly off the wall and scream at people when he gets angered. I''ve mentioned the Senator Domenici comments before (Domenici is a uber conservative long time senator from New Mexico) but no one has really commented on it.



WARNING: All of the following links contain expletives.


Here''s an article that mentioned a situation in which McCain called Sen. Domenici an @**hole.

From Albuquerque Journal April 28, 2008 I think the most interesting part of the article is the end where Domenici kind of tries to cover his tracks...We heard a LOT about this in NM when it happened being that it was between a representative from here and our closest neighbor (regarding culture and social issues.)


An interesting blog detailing McCain''s public outbursts. From February 2008.


Article from April 2008 regarding McCain''s comments but especially when he calls his wife the ''c'' word.


Yeesh...The more I read about the guy, the more I like Mitt Romney, and I think Mitt has the tendency to come off as a little bit of a sleazeball.


ETA: I really think McCain was only after a trophy wife...I mean what else can one deduce from marrying a swimsuit model and then cheating on her and divorcing her when she''s lost her figure? And then marrying the woman he was cheating on his first wife with-the beautiful, young and RICH Cindy. Yuck.

I''ll have to read your links once I get into work. But as far as the loose cannon...people kept telling me that, and talking about his temper. And I kept saying, what do you mean? He seems like a nice guy (this was before recently obviously). Well, even a very good friend of his described him as "mean." Every other opinion came from non McCain supporters so I took it with a grain of salt. But this person is VERY good friends with him so um, yeah. I couldn''t even figure out why he was willing to say that out loud.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 6/11/2008 6:50:29 AM
Author: MoonWater

Date: 6/10/2008 6:57:09 PM
Author: luckystar112

Date: 6/10/2008 11:46:05 AM

Author: MoonWater


Kimberly, thanks for your thoughtful reply.


I think you are right in general about everything you said and it's definitely understandable. However, I will always have a problem with people that look for the tinest slight and completely focus on that instead of the issue at hand. I enjoy Philosophy and Law, (so maybe that's my problem), and I can not respond to a post and completely ignore the point being made. As I'm sure you can tell from skimming my posts, I will even break down a person's post, point by point, in order to make sure I don't miss anything. A pet peeve of mine is when people flat out ignore the issue/question when they respond. After a while it becomes frustrating and that's when people start complaining, (to me at least), about insults or what have you. It's like a red herring. I just want a simple answer to what I've said, not a rant on what you found offensive in my post. Most especially since I don't spend my time nitpicking everything I find personally offensive.


As far as the situation with your friend's husband, that's funny. I have that problem with people too, usually with people I don't know very well. I personally think it's a frail ego thing because I let that stuff roll off my back, no matter how much I disagree (unless it's an attack on me as a person and sometimes even then I don't care), and just move on. But people hold grudges. Fortunately I've had many debates with people in online forums and once it was over, we could move on to another topic and talk as usual. It doesn't always work out that well though, especially in real life situations. But I'm use to having heated political discussions with friends and family and when it's over, it's over. No one ever agreed on anything, but no one is giving each other the evil eye either lol. I guess I just really don't understand people getting bent out of shape over strangers.

Hi Moon.


I'm sorry to interrupt your conversation that probably has absolutely nothing to do with me, but I was wondering if you could please grow up or direct your posts TO ME instead of continuing on with this amazingly ridiculous rant of yours? I mean, since things 'roll off your back' so easily and all.


Just a thought. Move on, honey.

LMAO...are you serious? There is this great Carly Simon song, it goes...'you're so vain...I bet you think this song is about you.' I was talking about several different people and not just my discussions here. Way to go with being more grown up than me! Trust me, being the direct person that I am, had I had a real problem with you I would have addressed it to your attention. Although, I find it hilarious that I'm accused being insulting with a post like this from you. Oh and please, take your on advice about moving on.

Yes Moon, I am serious.
Why did I have a feeling that you'd try to spin it off like it was a general statement? You don't think that I (or WE) are that stupid do you? And if it's not about me, it must be about someone else on this board (since you talk about breaking apart posts...but hey, you did that to MY posts! Gee!)--hmm maybe you should apologize to THEM then? And I'm sure that everyone else who read your post realized that you were talking about me, as our "argument" is just a couple pages back on this thread and covers pretty much everything that annoys you in your post to KimberlyH. Weird! I've highlighted the things you've personally accused ME of in the last 48 hours. I hope that you can read Ali's post again, and stop pretending that the person or people you are talking about won't read the thread you're in. Seriously....it's my biggest pet peeve on this board. I'm not going to sit back and take it moon, sorry.

 

[MoonWater]

luckystar,

First, what you said to me was far more insulting than anything in my general, yes it was a general, post. I find it odd that you can''t see that. I certainly think that you telling me to ''grow up'' and calling my post an ''amazingly ridiculous rant'' is more in violiation of what Ali posted than what I did.

Second, you are so self absorbed that you honestly believe it was about you. That is YOUR problem, not mine. Note: My initial post to Kimberly was more specific to this board and in response to a thread you said you never even read. So how you think it''s all about you astounds me. You were barely a blip on my radar as far as these political discussions go. I don''t feel the need to apologize to anyone for my general statement as I made my DIRECT response to those people as the discussion was occurring. If they feel so utterly offended by my general post that they need to respond, so be it. But you are HARDLY one of those people.

Third, I frequent a few other message boards and noticed that people that don''t have any evidence to back up their claims immediately try to nitpick things they find personally offensive instead, it is NOT unique to this board which is why I responded to Kimberly as I did. I understood what she meant that this particular board has a friendly atmosphere and perhaps that''s why others are more sensitive. Completely understandable and it was a point I hadn''t considered. But in other places I post, which would likely be described as more like the knot, sensitivity can not be the issue. People just want to distract from the real issue. I expressed those points to Kimberly to see what her take on it would be.

Now, I don''t need to spin a thing because I will happily call anyone out on something I disagree with. I don''t need to make a general statement in order to bring a point home to you. I simply had very little problem with you (and the problem I had with you, I addressed specifically IN MY RESPONSE DIRECTLY TO YOU). So please, don''t think so highly of yourself. I didn''t even think much of our disagreement until now. Obviously it is you that can''t move on. I find internet grudges utterly ridiculous and hilarous.

Moving right along...

 

[luckystar112]

You win, Moon. I know that means a lot to you. I know I got my point across, and that''s all that matters to me.

 

[MoonWater]

LOL yeah. Whatever. This is the second time you assumed something was about you. Everyone else here, that was in that other thread, knows exactly what I was talking about. You were no part of it. But feel free to believe you are the center of the universe.

Ps-I still love that you think I violated Ali''s post but don''t believe that you did. Hahahahaha, I mean really.

 

[luckystar112]

You''ve lost all credibility in my book, and I''m not going to play your game.
Even if you weren''t talking about me in your posts, which I doubt, then my post still applies to anyone else you were talking about too. The Obama speech thread died almost a month ago, so if you were talking about whatever altercations you got into in it, apparently things don''t roll off your back as much as you say they do.
Whatever the case...I don''t care. I''m going to go stare at myself in the mirror some more.

Feel free to have the last word!

 

[Ali]

I hope I do NOT have to take any more action than this to remind people to not make these threads personal.

 

[Erin]

So are we all to take what we''ve learned about poor, poor Carol, the would-be First Lady and judge McCain for it now? Does his lack of compassion for running about on his debilitated wife and divorcing her six years later for Cindy have any bearing on his moral fiber or how he will run this country?

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 6/11/2008 11:46:46 AM
Author: Starset Princess
So are we all to take what we've learned about poor, poor Carol, the would-be First Lady and judge McCain for it now? Does his lack of compassion for running about on his debilitated wife and divorcing her six years later for Cindy have any bearing on his moral fiber or how he will run this country?

It's hard to say. It does go to character though. I think this story seems sadder because his first wife was disabled in an accident, but I think the fact that he cheated and dumped her for a younger, hotter chick is typical of many men that like to womanize. But man, what a horrible story.

Now I need to read Freke's long post...I see she mentioned Marx...hehehe...I need to get my FI already.

 

[MoonWater]

Ok, I got distracted by an article FI sent me. I have enjoyed Camille Paglia''s writings over this election season. http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2008/06/11/hillary/

 

[MoonWater]

Freke,

Understandable worries about McCain. I too wonder what kind of damage was done after being a POW for 5 and a half years. Did he have a rep for his temper prior to this?

On Obama, he and Michelle paid off their student loans not too long ago. I believe they were able to do this after Obama''s second book. Also, although he''s only been a US Senator for 3 years, he was a state Senator for 7 years. I noticed that a lot of Hillary supporters would always leave this info out when talking about his inexperience (not that this was your reason).

As for Marx, what are you working on? I wouldn''t mind picking FI''s brain.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 6/11/2008 1:15:26 PM
Author: MoonWater
Freke,

Understandable worries about McCain. I too wonder what kind of damage was done after being a POW for 5 and a half years. Did he have a rep for his temper prior to this?

On Obama, he and Michelle paid off their student loans not too long ago. I believe they were able to do this after Obama''s second book. Also, although he''s only been a US Senator for 3 years, he was a state Senator for 7 years. I noticed that a lot of Hillary supporters would always leave this info out when talking about his inexperience (not that this was your reason).

As for Marx, what are you working on? I wouldn''t mind picking FI''s brain.

I don''t know that he had a temper before his POW years-I don''t know if anyone would really remember-maybe Carol would. I think that the public obscenities began in the 90s.

I did not know that about the student loans. I had read that a while back, and was suspicious about it because of the $$ he got from his books, so I''m glad you cleared that up for me. As well as the 3-7 years. I was reading somewhere about JFK and the comparison between him and Obama and I think something was mentioned there about it. (I absolutely HATED the fact that Hillary and her supporters cited 35 years of experience as one of her qualifications-8 years as the First Lady DO NOT COUNT. IMHO of course.)

Marx...Class struggles, proletariats and the bourgeoisie->Capitalism and Communism. Fascinating stuff in the times we''re in-just kind of hard to read and not what I''d call fun. It''s easier to read if you do it a little bit at a time instead of trying to sit down and do it all at once like I have been.

I''m interested to hear what your FI has to say. I''ve been picking FF''s brain about it as well...

 

[Erin]

Thanks for the link Moon. I really enjoyed the writing style of Camille Paglia but was totally dumbfounded by her flowery, sensual, and incessant description of the Brazilian singer - which didn''t tie into to her article until the last sentence...

"Full circle to feminism: Sexism, where it exists, is a political barrier that must be removed. But life is an organic principle and a cosmic skyscape, far vaster and more eternal than politics."

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 6/11/2008 2:12:24 PM
Author: Starset Princess
Thanks for the link Moon. I really enjoyed the writing style of Camille Paglia but was totally dumbfounded by her flowery, sensual, and incessant description of the Brazilian singer - which didn''t tie into to her article until the last sentence...

''Full circle to feminism: Sexism, where it exists, is a political barrier that must be removed. But life is an organic principle and a cosmic skyscape, far vaster and more eternal than politics.''

Hahaha, too funny. I just logged in to respond to Freke and I was going to recommend she read the article for my opinion of Hillary but I was going to mention that she should skip the 3rd page for the same reason you just said! I thought I had clicked and went into another article. She loss me for a while there.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Dems should advise Obama to pick Sam Nunn as his running mate.

 

[Erin]

Date: 6/11/2008 2:14:37 PM
Author: MoonWater

Date: 6/11/2008 2:12:24 PM
Author: Starset Princess
Thanks for the link Moon. I really enjoyed the writing style of Camille Paglia but was totally dumbfounded by her flowery, sensual, and incessant description of the Brazilian singer - which didn''t tie into to her article until the last sentence...

''Full circle to feminism: Sexism, where it exists, is a political barrier that must be removed. But life is an organic principle and a cosmic skyscape, far vaster and more eternal than politics.''

Hahaha, too funny. I just logged in to respond to Freke and I was going to recommend she read the article for my opinion of Hillary but I was going to mention that she should skip the 3rd page for the same reason you just said! I thought I had clicked and went into another article. She loss me for a while there.

LOL - I actually DID go back an make sure I wasn''t reading a separate article and had skimmed over something somehow.

 

[Erin]

Date: 6/11/2008 2:16:51 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
Dems should advise Obama to pick Sam Nunn as his running mate.

WHY?

 

[MoonWater]

Freke, don't even get me started on Hillary's "35 years" of experience. I've been trying to find them and I think they may be hanging out with the WMD we're still looking for.

Ron Reagan was on some show not long ago saying he was in the room when his dad signed papers in foreign nations and he lived in the White House, thus he should also qualify to run for President.

I sent an email to FI to ask about the stuff you mentioned. He's doing school, work, and an internship but he does like to talk about these things so I'm keeping my fingers crossed he'll have time to offer up what he knows and/or give his opinion.

On another note, since we were talking about taxes recently, I found this article about the impact to our wallet under McCain v. Obama. Either way, this country is in debt:

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/economy/candidates_taxproposals_tpc/?postversion=2008061111

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 6/11/2008 2:20:45 PM
Author: MoonWater
Freke, don''t even get me started on Hillary''s ''35 years'' of experience. I''ve been trying to find them and I think they may be hanging out with the WMD we''re still looking for.

Ron Reagan was on some show not long ago saying he was in the room when his dad signed papers in foreign nations and he lived in the White House, thus he should also qualify to run for President.

I sent an email to FI to ask about the stuff you mentioned. He''s doing school, work, and an internship but he does like to talk about these things so I''m keeping my fingers crossed he''ll have time to offer up what he knows and/or give his opinion.

Every time I hear about Hillary''s "35 years of experience" I can''t help but to picture in my mind the video my "U.S. Government" teacher made us watch in 2000-it was the preparation of a state dinner, and had Hillary picking out linens, silverware, crystal and dishes. Yes. Experience.

That''s also the video that got me into cooking because the pastry chef at the time, Roland Mesnier, made these incredible baskets of red white and blue sugar ribbon. Anyway!

We have class everyday, so I''ll probably come back later with another one of Marx''s theories...

 

[MoonWater]

Ok, seriously, I want some pastries. Ahem...oh yeah Marx...

Maybe you should start a thread about Marxism. Perhaps other people know about it. I keep saying I''m going to get around to reading more just so I can discuss it more with FI but then I never get around to it. I only remember the little bit I read in an old Phil class from 10 years ago. However, I did keep all of my notes. Maybe I can dig it up when I get home.

 

[swimmer]

So for DF, here is wikipedia on Sam Nunn he is also Jimmy Carter''s pick...but that doesn''t mean much these days. He has always been a southern conservative dem, but the no nukes work is in his favor. Sadly for Nunn, Aristide didn''t work out so well for the Haitian people. But he certainly has credibility...Obama would of course have to drop that whole "change" part of his campaign for a 70 yr old insider on his ticket. Come to think of it, Georgia, what about Max Cleveland? He lost his limbs in Vietnam for goodness sake. But he is close with McCain. Hm, that would attract a lot of crossover Dems to a Rep ticket...

Freke, so I used to live in a Socialist community, (kibbutz), and my father is a Communist history prof, so of course I teach history too, but my focus is more Eastern. If you need something clarified that is my pleasure! My students got me a t-shirt with Marx, Engels, Stalin, Lenin, and Mao on it while we were in China recently. I <3 it so much I hate to wear it. Its a weird green too.

None of what i''ve posted has specifically to do with Obama, but I heard about these gorgeous posters on NPR and wanted to share.