Trouble........

[fire&ice]

Date: 10/30/2006 4:56:05 PM
Author: poptart
Mara,

I understand where you are coming from in relation to Sophie''s statement, but ignoring the fact that it is a living being is not going to make the decision any easier, and I don''t think the phrase was meant to induce guilt.

But, it is not a *fact* that is shared by everyone - even in the medical community. It is the crux of the pro choice/pro life debate. And, one can express their viewpoint as just that - a viewpoint.

 

[upgrading mama]

I knew when I hit ''send'' to expect some response to my comments and that is ok

(Sorry for the short thread jack here, but I do think the thoughts we all express in the ''jacks do carry some value)

Actually I am pro-choice, from my political standpoint, because I know realistically that there are women out there who are going to choose abortion and they need to be able to do it in a safe environment (no back alleys)....but for myself, obviously, pro-life.

Mara, I have often admired your ability to ''say it like you mean it'' and so I knew I would get a reply from you, and probably a few more.

The reason why I felt the need to voice my feelings so blatantly is bc the few posts above mine said things like ''put the pics away'' and ''don''t think about it''....etc.
It made me frown bc I felt like just by putting it away doesn''t make it not there.

When I found out I was pregnant I was brokenhearted (bc of how soon it was in our marriage). I couldn''t bring myself to tell anyone (besides my hubby obviously), and we waited about a month and a half to share it. The thought of abortion had very mildly crossed my mind, though I know I could never do it- and when I heard his little heartbeat I was a goner )
MY mother in law thought I was having 2nd thoughts on our marriage, poor woman..lol


I would look at the prego test and cry...but eventually I came to terms and was happy.



anyway, my intentions were not meant to guilt Alexis at all. It is her life, not mine. Since the relationship with the guy is over, it would be easiest to just abort and have a clean break from him, but I jsut wanted to through the other factors in there.


I appreciate those who came to my ''defense'' but I don''t really think Mara was too tough, she just had to post her opinion, as I did mine.
(I love you too Mara

)


and as I said at the end of that long winded post (sorry!) Alexis, we are here for you, in cyber friendship no matter what you choose.
My heart and prayers go out to you...and I do hope you can go to your mom or an aunt or something...

 

[Christa]

Date: 10/30/2006 5:44:07 PM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 10/30/2006 4:56:05 PM
Author: poptart
Mara,

I understand where you are coming from in relation to Sophie''s statement, but ignoring the fact that it is a living being is not going to make the decision any easier, and I don''t think the phrase was meant to induce guilt.

But, it is not a *fact* that is shared by everyone - even in the medical community. It is the crux of the pro choice/pro life debate. And, one can express their viewpoint as just that - a viewpoint.

Well . . . it *is* a scientific fact that a fetus is a living being with a beating heart and its own DNA. What you do with that information is up to you, but let''s not ignore the facts.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 10/30/2006 5:51:39 PM
Author: Christa

Date: 10/30/2006 5:44:07 PM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 10/30/2006 4:56:05 PM
Author: poptart
Mara,

I understand where you are coming from in relation to Sophie''s statement, but ignoring the fact that it is a living being is not going to make the decision any easier, and I don''t think the phrase was meant to induce guilt.

But, it is not a *fact* that is shared by everyone - even in the medical community. It is the crux of the pro choice/pro life debate. And, one can express their viewpoint as just that - a viewpoint.

Well . . . it *is* a scientific fact that a fetus is a living being with a beating heart and its own DNA. What you do with that information is up to you, but let''s not ignore the facts.

It is not a scientific "fact" that a fetus is a living being. The heartbeat does not happen upon conception. The whole debate lies in the FACT of how one defines living being? If the medical community, people, politicians, judges, etc can''t come to a consensus, then I don''t see this as any "fact".

One may believe that abortion is taking a life. That is a personal belief. Our laws do not prosecute the taking of a fetus and women do have a right to choose - especially adult women.

I''m done debating this. This is a personal & moral choice between a women and her doctor. I don''t think anyone of us can make that choice for someone else; nor, should we impose our morals on someone else. There are many other living beings to be considered.

 

[HOUMedGal]

OK guys and gals, quick time out: we really shouldn''t hijack Alexis''s thread into a choice vs. life debate. I think that it is best for us to remember to be SENSITIVE right now to Alexis''s position, and to not try (purposefully or unknowingly) to sway her one way or another according to our own personal beliefs. Just a friendly reminder. I respect all of you and your right to your own opinions, I just think that it''s super important for us to just offer unbiased support to Alexis right now....that''s what I''d want, anyway.

That being said, Alexis, just wanna let you know that you are in my thoughts, sweetie!! I have been thinking about you every day since you first started this thread, and hoping that you find some peace somehow. I know you may not even know what road will lead you to that peace right now, but here''s to praying that you find it!

 

[Mara]

Date: 10/30/2006 6:42:37 PM
Author: HOUMedGal
OK guys and gals, quick time out: we really shouldn't hijack Alexis's thread into a choice vs. life debate. I think that it is best for us to remember to be SENSITIVE right now to Alexis's position, and to not try (purposefully or unknowingly) to sway her one way or another according to our own personal beliefs. Just a friendly reminder. I respect all of you and your right to your own opinions, I just think that it's super important for us to just offer unbiased support to Alexis right now....that's what I'd want, anyway.

That is actually what I was trying to say, Annie. Yours seems more coherent.

 

[ladykemma]

well, if you are 21, a good age to have babies, now, when kiddo goes to college you will be "done" at age 40! and your whole life ahead of you! There never IS a good time to have kids, no one has money at age 21 anyway, there are always struggles, and this will make you like finely tempered steel.

life is going to happen anyway -- you have three good choices. a three way fork in the road, all leading to your what is in your future.

which way do you want to go? rhetorical question...life has tossed you a HUGE life lemon. God doesn't throw you anything you are not spiritually ready to handle.

in my spirituality, we call these AFGOs, "another f*%&ing growth opportunity". and yes they hurt.

can you separate your hurt about HIM, from the issue at hand
(i think you have already received an answer to your prayers, at target. Even God cannot change another's free agency. Even god cannot make HIM see sense. Trying to make an alcoholic see sense is like trying to argue with a schizophrenic - absolutely pointless) BUT, god can give you information to make decisions. Higher power already has.

remember the movie "it's a wonderful life" with jimmy stewart and donna reed? Well it's your crucial night. and they're sending someone down.

 

[reader]

Well, humm time to put a flame suit on.

I had a child to a man that was violent, and stepped out of the picture before she was a year old, and I later aborted the child of another man. I have never really bonded, or adored the child that I have...and I have learned that not every woman, not every child is that magical counting fingers and toes combination. I raise her. I treat her with respect, but I have never been over the rainbow as her mom. When her father exited the picture, (at age one) family pressure, and fear of psychological damage to her made it too late to let her go.(via adoption)

The second child, I aborted because I knew that he would not stand by me, and he even asked to have the termination. One of my friends had to call him so that he would even spend the night before me. That one, I cried over. At the time, I thought it was the child I wanted.. What I was mourning was the loss of what I thought at the time was a stable? safe? relationship...I was angry and hurt that there was no offer of marriage and that I gave so much for such emptiness

Alexis, for some questions, there are no right answers, and there is no win. Either answer is going to be hard. Either answer, will, change your life. What you will do, at the least , is endure. You will bloom again..but it will take time and patience with yourself, and a ton of soul-searching and forgiveness.

Advice? Eat healthily and on time, it helps with mood swings. Exercise, same thing. Taking care of yourself physically helps remind you that no matter what, you are worthy enough to ask for help and to decide what is best for you.

 

[hlmr]

Alexis:

My heart aches for your situation. I am so sorry you have to go through such pain and suffering via your cold, callous and calculating boyfriend. He has made it clear that he wants no baby in his life and has moved on from the relationship he had with you.

The decision now rests with you, but please do talk to a loved one, whether it is your mother, grandmother, aunt, etc., to give you emotional support and guidance as you think through all your choices. I do think you would greatly benefit from talking with a trusted elder.

The right decision for you may not be clear right away. You are still in shock and need time to absorb all that has happened in the past few weeks.

I hope you can come to some sort of peace in your heart with whatever you decide. It is not easy, and no one can presume to know what the right choice is for you. That is something that only you can only find within yourself.

Hugs to you!

Heather

 

[firebirdgold]

Just saw this thread!

I have no advice on keeping or terminating your pregnancy, but there is one thing in your life THAT HAS GOT TO GO: your lousy manipulative jerk of a boyfriend!! (And that''s the extremely censored version, just so you know) If I were in your shoes one of the scariest things for me about keeping and raising the child is that you''d be stuck with having that jerk in your life forever! No amount of grudgingly given money will ever make up for having to deal with him!
I almost swallowed my tongue when I read that he went to your Dr.''s appt and had the gall to say anything let alone that you were looking at abortion! Then I realized that it''s the same alcholic, gambling addict, manipulative S.O.B from your posts on LIW!!

I say tell your folks and take the gun away from your dad but hand him a baseball bat instead!

You have a hard decision facing you and there''s good and bad things about all of the choices. With a little space and breathing room you''re sure to make the best decision for you and no matter what it ends up being, it''ll be the right choice.

**HUGS**

 

[upgrading mama]

"and I just graduated college with honors this past may. "

I forgot to congratulate you on this before. What a great accomplishment, you should be very proud of yourself!!

 

[galeteia]

Actually, until Sophie's post I got the impression that both 'sides' were trying to be as delicate and considerate of Alexis' feelings as possible, and not trying to sway her either way. People put forth their concerns, but there were no blatant statements like the abovementioned comment. It's such an emotional topic for people it ends up being so hard to keep from saying 'persuasive' things; I'm fiercely reining in my own urge.

From Alexis' posts, I thought she was painfully aware of the child and was already struggling with the issues. The very fact that she would find it so painful to give that child up speaks volumes about her feelings about it.

Alexis, earlier you mentioned you had some health concerns that could affect your pregnancy. Are you comfortable with elaborating on anything that would make it dangerous for you to try to carry it to term? For example, I have a condition that would very easily become fatal should I get pregnant, so my health and survival would also be at stake.

And Alexis, 21 is a young age to be facing down this kind of choice; just when I thought I was already as sympathetic as it was possible to be...

And to be the lone voice of dissent, if you mother is so strongly pro-life, I wouldn't recommend telling her, or you'll be right back at someone trying to make the decision for you. Your bf against keeping it, your mother insisting.

This is a choice for you and you alone. You need to make it on your own terms. ((hugs!))

 

[galeteia]

Date: 10/30/2006 10:55:15 PM
Author: IndieJones

I say tell your folks and take the gun away from your dad but hand him a baseball bat instead!

Woo woo!

I''ll second that!

 

[IrishAngel7982]

Alexis~
I just got back from being out of town and saw your reference on another thread...so I jumped over here...

I am absolutely shocked. Sadly though, I have been worried about you since I read your posts about your less-than-worthy ex. (I''m sorry if that''s rude, but your descriptions of this guy aren''t pretty.) I hope this experience has finally shown you who he really is...but it''s heartbreaking that there is now a baby involved.

Don''t put away the ultrasound pictures. Maybe they will shed some light on the situation as to whether you''re able to support this child or give it to a family who desperately wants a baby. There''s always the third route, but I feel like you''re really not up for it. I don''t blame you, I wouldn''t be either.

I remember a case in the news lately where a separated couple from Michigan had a child. The woman was against abortion, the man insisted he didn''t want the baby and refused to pay child support. Needless to say they were involved in a court battle. Her stance was "You play, you pay." They were also early 20s if I remember correctly.

Whatever is meant to be will find a way. I will ask you to please stop praying for him to change his mind. Pray for yourself to find the answers. Don''t waste another moment thinking about him any further than what you want to do with him if you decide to keep the baby.

I''m thinking about you and you''re in my prayers. Please let us know how we can help.

*Hugs*

 

[upgrading mama]

Date: 10/30/2006 11:29:02 PM
Author: Galateia
Actually, until Sophie''s post I got the impression that both ''sides'' were trying to be as delicate and considerate of Alexis'' feelings as possible, and not trying to sway her either way. People put forth their concerns, but there were no blatant statements like the abovementioned comment. It''s such an emotional topic for people it ends up being so hard to keep from saying ''persuasive'' things; I''m fiercely reining in my own urge.

From Alexis'' posts, I thought she was painfully aware of the child and was already struggling with the issues. The very fact that she would find it so painful to give that child up speaks volumes about her feelings about it.

Alexis, earlier you mentioned you had some health concerns that could affect your pregnancy. Are you comfortable with elaborating on anything that would make it dangerous for you to try to carry it to term? For example, I have a condition that would very easily become fatal should I get pregnant, so my health and survival would also be at stake.

And Alexis, 21 is a young age to be facing down this kind of choice; just when I thought I was already as sympathetic as it was possible to be...

And to be the lone voice of dissent, if you mother is so strongly pro-choice, I wouldn''t recommend telling her, or you''ll be right back at someone trying to make the decision for you. Your bf against keeping it, your mother insisting.

This is a choice for you and you alone. You need to make it on your own terms. ((hugs!))

I sincerely hope that Alexis, first and foremost, and then the rest of you, will accept my apology if it seems that I am being pushy. I sincerely and truly hope that I haven''t made you feel worse. Actually, my intention was to do, just the oppoite.

I absolutely want her to make the best decision for herself as is possible. I was basically thinking that instead of writing about the guy, I would try to bring a light in, by talking about the life that is growing.

But I digress. For you Alexis, abortion may very well be what you choose. And if it is, I wish you all the strength, courage, and peace in the world. Actually, If you choose to keep your pregnancy I wish you all the same as well.

Try to rest and in the meantime, until you decide, take care of yourself so that you won''t feel sick...

My prayers are for you tonight....

 

[LizzieC]

Just wanted to say *hugs* to you Alexis, you''re in my thoughts and prayers.

 

[diamondfan]

I think, whatever ones views, this is a terrible situation. You are young, have so much ahead, and this guy is clearly not being what he should be during a trying time. First, I think he is history. He has shown himself and I do not think what he has revealed is worth hanging on to. Second, all three choices are tough in terms of second guessing oneself. Therefore, you have to try to see yourself in 5 years, and imagine what it will be like to have a 5 year old, or to have given your child up for adoption or to have terminated. Each is tough in its'' way. Adoption is clearly a huge gift to bestroy on someone, and a selfless act too, a wondeful thing but I could not have done it. Clearly, terminating is hard to come to grips with too, the what if of what would your child have been like, etc...and having the baby, though it would certainly be tough on you, might turn out to be the most incredible journey of your life. I guess that at 21 though, with a guy who is less than stellar, it just seems that it would be so tough to raise a child. But who knows what is in store for us, what is planned for us on a bigger level. I am just sorry for your pain and your fear and hope it all becomes clear to you. Hugs and best wishes to you...

 

[DonaBella]

Alexis...

I cannot offer you anymore than what has already been so abundantly expressed in advice and counsel. I do wish you the power and clarity of mind to do what you feel is right for your situation. I pray that you will find that person, that source that will guide you towards your decision...whatever it may be.

Many women have been in a situation similar to yours and it is personal and very serious. Please do not make such a decision without thoroughly thinking it through as others here have advised you.

I did not chime in to share my personal views on being pro-choice or pro-life. This is your life and you must make the decision and live with that decision. Most importantly, you must feel content that it is the right choice for you, irregardless of how others may or may not approve or support or not support your decision.

You are young, yes, but I feel you are wiser than you give yourself credit for and it is now up to you to take a very slow, calm and clear look at the facts. Everyone here is pulling for you and will be here for you.

I don''t often check in on this board too often anymore, but if I can be of support or guidance in any way, shape or form, I''d be glad to help. Many here would. The fact is, you need tangible support and friends. Cyber friends can help hear you vent, but a real shoulder to lean on or a real hug

could really come in handy right now I suppose.

I am hitting the sheets to sleepyland, but I will say a special prayer for you to be guided to do whatever is right for your circumstance...hugs...

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 10/30/2006 10:48:08 PM
Author: reader


Alexis, for some questions, there are no right answers, and there is no win. Either answer is going to be hard. Either answer, will, change your life. What you will do, at the least , is endure. You will bloom again..but it will take time and patience with yourself, and a ton of soul-searching and forgiveness.

Advice? Eat healthily and on time, it helps with mood swings. Exercise, same thing. Taking care of yourself physically helps remind you that no matter what, you are worthy enough to ask for help and to decide what is best for you.

sage words. yes, taking some time for yourself and being good to yourself right now are of extreme importance.

movie zombie

 

[ladykemma]

prenatal vitamins too

 

[~*Alexis*~]

Thanks all for your helpfulness when it comes to this and for all of your support.

I know that he is not going to change. I do know that. I guess I was just hoping for a maricle. I know that is not going to happen. At this point I am still stuck in the air.

I kidna knew when I started this topic that it was going to insight alot of different points of view. Pro-live vs pro-choice. Sorry. I am not offended by anyones comments at all.

I thank each of you for your opinions, thoughts, prayers and kind words. They are a valuable insight to what is happening in my life at this point in time. Which is a mess....ugh!

Tough desicions are made everyday, I don''t know how people do it. But I give them a lot of damn credit...

 

[jas]

Oh Alexis, hugs and love to you.

Tough decisions are made everyday by ordinary, confused, terrified people. You can do whatever it is you will do. Do take care of yourself. Good health, good rest (as much as possible, and sweetie I know it''s hard) will help you to better hear your inner voice guide your decision.

Love is sent to you from around the country and around the world. You are not alone.

Hugs,
Jackie

 

[~*Alexis*~]

***Group Hug***

 

[Dee*Jay]

Alexis - I have no real advice to offer you in this situation, but I just wanted to say that I''ve been following your thread and I''m thinking of you and sending big hugs your way.

 

[DiaDiva]

Alexis, I''ve following your thread and I think you''ve already been given lots of fantastic advice so I won''t be adding anything new. It''s clear from all the postings that everyone cares about you so hang in there and I will say a prayer for you tonight.

Take care.

 

[SoonIHope]

Alexis, I too have been following your thread and thinking of you. Please know that in the end, whatever choice you make WILL be the right choice for you. I''ll be keeping you in my thoughts and hoping you are able to come to a decision and make peace with it soon. HUGS!!!! And do take care of yourself; I find even minor decisions are so much harder to handle if you''re tired or not eating well.

 

[~*Alexis*~]

thanks all--

its not like I am trying not to eat, but I sit in a cube all day and people walk by with food and the smell of it sometimes is enough to make me want to lose it. I have tried trust me.. LOL

its not easy bein'' green...

 

[janinegirly]

Alexis, my goodness, i had no idea (i too am only on LIW board, and only came here when you posted there). This is an extraordinary situation. I think you should absolutely consider talking with your mom. You really need support right now, and she will be there for you and help sort through this.
I am just SHOCKEd at your bf. He most certainly was not worth "waiting for", and is a "loser" from what it sounds. A complete zero. It has to just feel like the ground has been pulled away from under you with all these major emotional events which is why I hope you can go to your mother or someone of major support in your life. You''re very young and this decision will impact the rest of your life just as you''re entering adulthood. Don''t make the decision alone with all these crazy emotions and dramas to boot.
My one ques is you said you were on the pill? how do you and your doctor surmise this happened?
stay strong but don''t go throught his alone.

 

[oshinbreez]

Hugs Alexis.

I don''t know if you''ve made up your mind as what you''re going to do yet, but one suggestion I''d make is to see a lawyer and get papers for your bf to sign so he has no paternal rights....no matter what you decide. He''s made it clear that he doesn''t want the child, and even if you do keep the baby, do you want to have him in the child''s life legally? You can''t force a man to pay child support. My ex husband and I have been to court many, many times for support for my kids, and I got maybe a grand total of $500.

I was going to suggest talking to the pastor of your church. He could be the support you need when you tell your parents. I was raised in a very religious family, and it would have been alot harder for me to tell my parents at 17 that I was pregnant had he not been there. Could you possibly tell an aunt or uncle and let them be with you when you tell your parents? I''m sure there must be someone that you could confide in that know your parents and could help you.

You said you''ve been praying. God will give you the answer. Alot of times we don''t listen since it''s not what we want, but he won''t let you down. And he won''t give you any more than what you can handle.

I''m keeping you in my prayers. You will make the best decision for yourself. Take time to think out all your options.

 

[~*Alexis*~]

Date: 10/31/2006 12:04:27 PM
Author: janinegirly
Alexis, my goodness, i had no idea (i too am only on LIW board, and only came here when you posted there). This is an extraordinary situation. I think you should absolutely consider talking with your mom. You really need support right now, and she will be there for you and help sort through this.
I am just SHOCKEd at your bf. He most certainly was not worth ''waiting for'', and is a ''loser'' from what it sounds. A complete zero. It has to just feel like the ground has been pulled away from under you with all these major emotional events which is why I hope you can go to your mother or someone of major support in your life. You''re very young and this decision will impact the rest of your life just as you''re entering adulthood. Don''t make the decision alone with all these crazy emotions and dramas to boot.
My one ques is you said you were on the pill? how do you and your doctor surmise this happened?
stay strong but don''t go throught his alone.

HaHa! That first part made me laugh...lol

How it happended...umm...welll...when you THINK you really love someone there are emotions....haha j/k....
The pill thing--not sure really. My body is a strange thing...it does weird things. I have endometriosis and that makes bad cramps and things like that so the pill lessened alot of the pain....other than that..NO clue...