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Should student loan debt (USA) be forgiven?

msop04

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Let’s face it, there’s is a whole generation of PARENTS who have encouraged their children to take out student loans when no one was thinking of the consequences to the children’s lives in the future. This is garbage. Kids trust their parents to steer them in the right direction. These parents have been so desperate for their children to have a college degree that they have hobbled their children’s’ futures.

I’m not making excuses for these kids. I’m stating facts.

The age of 18 years old is still a kid. I am a totally different, far more mature individual than I was at 18 and I was too mature for my age. By 18 I had been living on my own for two years. I was still naive to many parts of the world and I had a lot to learn.

Are there young people out there who can make smart decisions when it comes to school finances? Yes. All of my older children are that way. But if I had been the type of parent who encouraged them to take out a mountain of student loan debt because “that was the only way they would have any kind of future” then maybe things would be different for my kids.

There is much more at play here than simple entitlement and irresponsibility on the kid’s part. I think we need to see that.
I agree with all of this.
 

Tekate

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So you think it's fine to do that while penalizing those of us who sacrificed and saved to pay for college or the students who worked to pay tuition?

Yes I do, I think this generation of college kids were sold a wrong bill of goods I think one used to be able to go to IBM, start in the mailroom and end of making 250K in 30 years, not so today. Gig economy still, I don't think there is one 'real' admin aide at IBM today, when I worked for IBM and IBM could work herself (face it we were all women) up to make great money, opportunity to learn programming, management careers, technical careers, all gone today. I worked thru college, took a private loan and went to college in open admissions in NYC, received work-study, Pell grants etc, I paid my loan back, but college in the city in the 70s was cheaper than just about anywhere in the 70s also.


Is it fair for us to have been responsible and also have to pay for the huge error of others? That's extremely unfair. There's nothing wrong with using community colleges and finishing at a state school, preferably nearby. Someone could do that with relatively little debt if they also worked part-time. As I said in an earlier post, most kids would have parents or a guidance counselor who might have warned them that $200k in debt when they want to be a communications major isn't the best idea.

Was it fair for me to pay for Savings and Loans back in the 80s? did you pay to assist the Savings and Loans?


I'm not saying I disagreed with assisting banks and S&Ls I just know I resented having to more more in my taxes to help out risky institutions allowed to go haywire.


I know a family right now whose daughter is either a junior or senior at a very expensive private college. They have five kids so can't afford to help them with college. But they allowed the child to go to this school because she wanted to, even with other relatives expressing concern about the debt. So she'll graduate and hopes to get a job in government in DC. She'll have high living expenses and very little chance of paying back those loans unless she happens to marry someone with money. I am very sorry, but I do not see that I have ANY reason or responsibility to help pay for her very poor decision.

My sister allowed both her kids to go to land grant colleges and take loans and SHE paid them back by hook, crook, ladder and credit cards. I never agreed she should have done that, my sister made 90K a year and my brother in law 55K, that is good money, both were in the education field but her kids went to expensive schools, my sister bought used cars, she never went to Europe in her life, she never went anyway if my memory serves me, but I don't think she regretted what she did, she took 2nd mortgage on her home.. I am not saying everyone should sacrifice to send their kids to Penn State and PItt, I not have done this, BUT we made more money than they did. My sister had an awesome pension and my brother get's 1/2 hers since she died in 16 plus his own. So I think I've seen different sides of life and private colleges, loans, bad choices in careers etc.

As to the family you know, the parents were indulgent. My sister's kids didn't amount to a lot in one way, neither makes money per se, but then again they don't have college loans, and their father is STILL assisting them in their financial lives, as we are with my granddaughter, we put money into an educational account every month as long as our son matches it, he's already has 7K in the account and she's 9 months old. We helped our sons.
 

Tekate

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That with a college degree you can get ahead. In my day even with a English degree one could improve themselves, not today. College debt hinders these people from having children, buying homes things that keep our economy and America's greatness functioning.


@Tekate, what was the bad information sold to students? What would hinder these kids from improving themselves?
 

missy

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That with a college degree you can get ahead. In my day even with a English degree one could improve themselves, not today. College debt hinders these people from having children, buying homes things that keep our economy and America's greatness functioning.
Yes that was the wisdom in the “olden” days but imo no longer. And I don’t think most people believe this anymore either. A college degree can be a stepping stone but generally isn’t sufficient to make a successful career. Depending on what one hopes to do with one’s career that is. There are, as with all things, many exceptions.
 

msop04

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That with a college degree you can get ahead. In my day even with a English degree one could improve themselves, not today. College debt hinders these people from having children, buying homes things that keep our economy and America's greatness functioning.
You can absolutely get ahead with a college degree... people do it every day. You cannot, however, pick just any field of study and expect to make more money than is typically paid for that profession. A little common sense and due diligence is required. If the field of study doesn't pay well enough to comfortably pay back student debt (and, yes, it may take longer than 10 or 20 years), then don't go to a more expensive college and/or strongly consider another profession. People have to be realistic and take some responsibility.

ETA: My sister is an elementary school teacher and had student debt from undergrad, as well as when she went back for her Masters... it took her about 9 or so years to pay off her debt, and she is certainly NOT in one of the better paying school districts.
 
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Tekate

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No they aren't stupid, but naive, I went to college at 17 and had zero clue except I wanted the war over and peace in the world. After a few attempts in college I got a 2 year degree in business. I was naive.

Why do I think young people aren't having kids and buying houses? The reasons in the pointer:


Oh the old trophy stuff, my kids are 28 and 32 and I told them back in the 90s that there were 3 trophy's and participation trophy isn't one of them, I can't speak to why that happened, I was never on a winning team in school but then again, all Mom's were home and my mom didn't even have a car, I hated Brownies and walked my little brother's to their little league games, practices and my mom and dad never went to one. Different times, different world

Yup EVERYONE can research jobs, but when most of the jobs of the future don't pay a sustainable living it becomes tricky. Not everyone can be a programmer, not everyone has a logical brain, I had a very hard time with it, I was much better at servicing existing code which paid less, but I never was a person who thought in a logical manner per se. Yes DD, very important, but I remember being 18 and not doing DD because I was there to save the world I thought.. I think it's very hard for kids to do DD when they aren't even able to drink till they are 21, we have made all kinds of decisions for them.

Yes anyone can research jobs and pay scales, but not everyone can be a doctor, marketing manager or programmer, where are he middle paying jobs that the lower class can aspire too? Can a pharmacy tech aspire to be a pharmacists with on the job training nope. It's a different world, we are becoming the rich, very rich and very very rich and the very poor.. middle class has been stagnant for years and years, if one does not make enough money TO invest in the stock market then one has not been able to partake in the wealth accumulation under this American regime, The amount of money boomers have saved for retirement is low. I can't with the slackers worse and the millenials much worse so far. We have a declining America that is for sure.. the HAVES! and mostl HAVE NOTs. sadly.

If one dreams of being a candlemaker and goes to college and get's a degree in philosophy then that is a crying shame, but maybe with luck they can sell enough candles to make a business and pay off their loans. The problem isn't that there are too many organic candle makers the problem is there are no longer jobs that people with humanities degrees have no way to get ahead except to teach and the salaries haven't kept up with inflation. Time was we respected and learned history and how to diagram a sentence, about war and the past, today it's just get a degree in something you can make money at and OH BTW you won't be able to make much money unless you are a data scientist etc. It's a failure on American business, offshoring, layoffs, computerization, robotics, no room for middle of the road jobs, even long haul truckers make much less than they did before, it's all about 'hiring contractors'. This is NOT the world I grew up in and got ahead in. Not sure what I would do today.

What I am saying is: There is nothing wrong with us the taxpayer assisting people who are stuck, we bailed out Savings and loans, we bailed out big banks, and car companies, why not give SOME help to the young of America. They are our future. We are the past.


I don't think kids are being given enough credit - they aren't stupid. Just because "they" are selling it, doesn't mean we have to buy it. We have information at our fingertips, and have for 20+ years, so I don't buy that. (see what I did there?) ;-)

You said that "...our young people are not buying homes, having kids, advancing..." Why do you think that's so?? Even though it's harder for them than it was for our us or our parents doesn't mean that kids shouldn't be taught responsibility and be exposed to real life situations before they're thrust out into it.

When everyone gets a trophy and must retreat to a safe place when they're uncomfortable doesn't allow for growth and maturing. The real world doesn't care if you thought you'd just bust out of college and make a ton of money. That's on your to do your due dilligence and make informed decisions about your career path. Don't get along with your coworker?? Learn to. Becoming a functioning adult is being made much more difficult by all the coddling. Let kids make mistakes... let them experience feelings and learn to deal with them... let them lose when they lose. Why would anyone strive for better when everything has always been "fixed" for them by all the adults their entire lives?? There's little or no incentive for them when we don't allow them to mature psychologically. The real world doesn't play that way. They need to be better prepared to handle it.

So where can people who are making 30K a year put their money to make it grow, actually can people who make 30K a year even save? yup CDs area thing of the past as are savings accounts, yup the good old money markets, but then again, people have to save for retirement too and on these salaries today I'm not sure any young person can do it all.

Anyone can research what certain professions pay, how much it would cost to obtain the education necessary to get a job in that field, if the salaries will allow for repayment of debt while leading a lifestyle that is comfortable enough for them, and the difficulty of obtaining that position in different areas.

Just because someone dreams of being an organic candle maker doesn't mean that line of work will pay for them to lead the lifestyle they desire and pay the bills. Hell, I'd rather do a lot of things other than be a pharmacist, but I also like to buy luxury items and go to nice dinners often... and those jobs wouldn't really allow me to do those type things [financially] responsibly. Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike my job - I enjoy being able to help people and it's interesting to me. But the main reason I chose this field is because I knew it would give me financial independence and allow me to have a lifestyle that's comfortable for me.
But here's the catch... getting through school was certainly not cheap or easy. I have a ton of student debt, but my salary allows me to pay it easily. I could've majored in something that I really liked more, but then I'd suffer in the long run. It's all about the priorities you set and the choices you make for yourself.

My nephew is in college right now. He started off at a small, private liberal arts college, but soon realized how much he'd end up paying back, so he made the very responsible decision to transfer to a community college for a few years to save money.

Also, no one should put a lot of money in a savings account when there are other ways of saving that pay much more interest... CDs are a thing of the past for the exact same reason.
 

Tekate

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Definitely, but I have yet to see any good way for these people to get from under the debt they have, they can't get mortgages. I agree with all you say, I agree people should be responsible but I do think many of these young people believed in the American dream. I wish we could find a way to lessen the load, my sons say Reddit is full of thousands of threads on college loans, lack of good jobs, etc. As my mom would say "if it's not one thing it's another!" :) xoxo


Yes that was the wisdom in the “olden” days but imo no longer. And I don’t think most people believe this anymore either. A college degree can be a stepping stone but generally isn’t sufficient to make a successful career. Depending on what one hopes to do with one’s career that is. There are, as with all things, many exceptions.
 

Tekate

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Was she sold a bill of goods that she would live the American dream and she took out a FHA loan? do she and her spouse make little money? Lots of questions.

Would you support the idea for taxpayers paying off my daughter's mortgages?
 

Tekate

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Did you buy the stone to help you get ahead in life and do you have a government back loan for your stone? Ya gotta stay on topic and quit sequing into another topic.


I made a poor choice of buying a 3ct diamond. Will you pay off my CC balances ?. Pretty please, don't you have any compassion?
 

redwood66

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Red you think we should fund the armed services right? In order for our country to continue to fund our first responders we need an educated workforce.. teachers on the front line, why do so many teacher's burn out? we need a fair and responsible way to assist these people underwater because we have bailed out underwater businesses and banks. I totally believe in personal responsibility but what happened in the recession was unique and sad. Maybe a sliding scale, forgiveness for teaching, didn't the republicans ensure that the debt will follow even if one declares bankruptcy? It's not as though these people can escape. We don't want to be Japan
I'm the wrong person to ask because I don't think we should have bailed out banks or automakers or any other industry in crisis. Allow the correction that is needed which might hurt or be inconvenient for awhile but the government shouldn't pick winners or losers. The funding of the armed services to protect this country is one of the few actual reasons for the federal government in the first place. The rest has just grown out of control for the purpose of control.

Stop making the topic into a partisan one because most of us are in agreement here regardless of political affiliation.
 

msop04

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No they aren't stupid, but naive, I went to college at 17 and had zero clue except I wanted the war over and peace in the world. After a few attempts in college I got a 2 year degree in business. I was naive.

Why do I think young people aren't having kids and buying houses? The reasons in the pointer:


Oh the old trophy stuff, my kids are 28 and 32 and I told them back in the 90s that there were 3 trophy's and participation trophy isn't one of them, I can't speak to why that happened, I was never on a winning team in school but then again, all Mom's were home and my mom didn't even have a car, I hated Brownies and walked my little brother's to their little league games, practices and my mom and dad never went to one. Different times, different world

Yup EVERYONE can research jobs, but when most of the jobs of the future don't pay a sustainable living it becomes tricky. Not everyone can be a programmer, not everyone has a logical brain, I had a very hard time with it, I was much better at servicing existing code which paid less, but I never was a person who thought in a logical manner per se. Yes DD, very important, but I remember being 18 and not doing DD because I was there to save the world I thought.. I think it's very hard for kids to do DD when they aren't even able to drink till they are 21, we have made all kinds of decisions for them.

Yes anyone can research jobs and pay scales, but not everyone can be a doctor, marketing manager or programmer, where are he middle paying jobs that the lower class can aspire too? Can a pharmacy tech aspire to be a pharmacists with on the job training nope. It's a different world, we are becoming the rich, very rich and very very rich and the very poor.. middle class has been stagnant for years and years, if one does not make enough money TO invest in the stock market then one has not been able to partake in the wealth accumulation under this American regime, The amount of money boomers have saved for retirement is low. I can't with the slackers worse and the millenials much worse so far. We have a declining America that is for sure.. the HAVES! and mostl HAVE NOTs. sadly.

If one dreams of being a candlemaker and goes to college and get's a degree in philosophy then that is a crying shame, but maybe with luck they can sell enough candles to make a business and pay off their loans. The problem isn't that there are too many organic candle makers the problem is there are no longer jobs that people with humanities degrees have no way to get ahead except to teach and the salaries haven't kept up with inflation. Time was we respected and learned history and how to diagram a sentence, about war and the past, today it's just get a degree in something you can make money at and OH BTW you won't be able to make much money unless you are a data scientist etc. It's a failure on American business, offshoring, layoffs, computerization, robotics, no room for middle of the road jobs, even long haul truckers make much less than they did before, it's all about 'hiring contractors'. This is NOT the world I grew up in and got ahead in. Not sure what I would do today.

What I am saying is: There is nothing wrong with us the taxpayer assisting people who are stuck, we bailed out Savings and loans, we bailed out big banks, and car companies, why not give SOME help to the young of America. They are our future. We are the past.
Well, I have a huge problem with being financially responsible for others' poor decisions. Kids these days have just as many resources, actually way more, than I did when I was applying for and going to college back in the late 90's/early 2000s. If they are our future, why not show them how the real world works?? You can't just do as your heart desires or leads you... not if you need to pay bills. That's just a reality. You can live your dream, or you can attempt to live your fantasy, but at the end of the day, the bills will still be due.

I am not the past. I'm right in the here and now... and until I leave this world, I have just as much stake in the future as these kids do. It's a bad idea to promote, encourage, AND REWARD irresponsible behaviors and zero accountability. Why should anyone care if they borrow a bunch of money, if they never have to repay it??

Let everyone else pay for our choices!! Let's all study at Yale and buy 5ct super ideals! Yay!!
 

nala

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Forgive me for multiple responses. Just reading posts one by one and responding as I see fit.



@nala I don't see this as the main argument at all. I don't think this is the reason many of us are stating. We are saying it comes down to personal responsibility and paying for one's financial obligations. Realistically, in a country the size of the USA how else could it work? Again in an ideal world how amazing it would be to pay for everyone to attend the school of their dreams. But we live in reality. And have to make it work here as best we can.
Missy. Go back. You will see that prior to my post, the reason I cited is the central reason that some posters like Bonfire. Diamondseeker. Msop. Slick. Rocks. Kenny. Assherlover. Motherthing. Those are the ones that I just looked up. All sharing personal experiences to say that they shouldn’t pay for anyone else mistakes. Here’s the thing; just pretend that the taxes you are paying are going to any number of other programs you support. It’s that easy. Dont use the national debt to mask your middle class envy and allow for positive change. That is the plight of the middle class and always will be. And that is why I expressed my shock. That is all I have ever argued in my posts. But I guess it’s my mistake to assume these posters are liberals. Lol. now that I think about it. I shouldn’t be shocked. And yes. It’s a partisan issue. It will basically determine who are next president is NOT for the next 4 years.
 

redwood66

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Missy. Go back. You will see that prior to my post, the reason I cited is the central reason that some posters like Bonfire. Diamondseeker. Msop. Slick. Rocks. Kenny. Assherlover. Motherthing. Those are the ones that I just looked up. All sharing personal experiences to say that they shouldn’t pay for anyone else mistakes. Here’s the thing; just pretend that the taxes you are paying are going to any number of other programs you support. It’s that easy. Dont use the national debt to mask your middle class envy and allow for positive change. That is the plight of the middle class and always will be. And that is why I expressed my shock. That is all I have ever argued in my posts. But I guess it’s my mistake to assume these posters are liberals. Lol. now that I think about it. I shouldn’t be shocked. And yes. It’s a partisan issue. It will basically determine who are next president is NOT for the next 4 years.
Do you mean that whatever party is in power should be able to decide what programs to enact and the taxpayers be damned? Just pay our taxes and shut up? They work for us not the other way around. Not every liberal cause is a good or fiscally responsible one. Especially one that teaches people they don't have to be responsible for their own destiny.
 

nala

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Do you mean that whatever party is in power should be able to decide what programs to enact and the taxpayers be damned? Just pay our taxes and shut up? They work for us not the other way around. Not every liberal cause is a good or fiscally responsible one.
no. I meant that as taxpayers we all pay a certain amount. Period. In your head, just pretend that the taxes you are paying are funding solely the causes you support. Lol. Like we did when we bailed out big businesses. It’s not like we all get an itemized list that tells us where exactly our taxes are going.
Redwood. My posts aren’t directed at republicans. They are directed at posters who claim to be liberal. How do they fail to see that 2 of our 3 major candidates might lose because of this issue? Where is the support for these visionaries?
 

redwood66

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no. I meant that as taxpayers we all pay a certain amount. Period. In your head, just pretend that the taxes you are paying are funding solely the causes you support. Lol. Like we did when we bailed out big businesses. It’s not like we all get an itemized list that tells us where exactly our taxes are going.
Redwood. My posts aren’t directed at republicans. They are directed at posters who claim to be liberal. How do they fail to see that 2 of our 3 major candidates might lose because of this issue? Where is the support for these visionaries?
But that is giving too much power to government and much akin to sticking my head in the sand. I cannot do it.
 

Tekate

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Hmm I don't think I made it partisan at all, I am talking opportunity. Making an analogy isn't making something partisan, and I never said the right was the reason why kids took loans they can't pay back etc.. and I really don't think that.. My basis for thought is that it's unfair to help businesses etc and not assist humans.

Maybe YOU are turning it into a partisan topic Red by bringing that up, I certainly didn't.


I'm the wrong person to ask because I don't think we should have bailed out banks or automakers or any other industry in crisis. Allow the correction that is needed which might hurt or be inconvenient for awhile but the government shouldn't pick winners or losers. The funding of the armed services to protect this country is one of the few actual reasons for the federal government in the first place. The rest has just grown out of control for the purpose of control.

Stop making the topic into a partisan one because most of us are in agreement here regardless of political affiliation.
 

Bonfire

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@nala pretending not to notice where my tax dollars are going is irresponsible to me. I’m older and have less time on this earth than some here, but I can’t ignore the debt burden being passed on to my kids, grandchildren, great grandchildren...Unfortunately each generation burdens to next. We have to be responsible fiscally, with our planet, etc.
I think we do our young people a huge disservice by not teaching them responsibility. We can’t just give away the store.

*I also wasn’t in favor of bank bailouts
 

cmd2014

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Buy the education you can afford.
The problem with this is that it perpetuates the cycle of poverty. So education is only for the wealthy? For those from stable homes? It dooms those who through no fault of their own we’re not born into wealth. It’s why many countries invest in higher education and subsidize tuition (our universities here are not for profit).

I’m not exactly sure why student loan debt is not considered debt like any other - which is subject to bankruptcy laws. Maybe because most students would qualify to declare bankruptcy upon completion of school? If so isn’t that a problem?
 

Tekate

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There! I had way more solutions to pay for college back in the 70s. I had work study, I had Pell, I had low interest loans.
 

redwood66

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Hmm I don't think I made it partisan at all, I am talking opportunity. Making an analogy isn't making something partisan, and I never said the right was the reason why kids took loans they can't pay back etc.. and I really don't think that.. My basis for thought is that it's unfair to help businesses etc and not assist humans.

Maybe YOU are turning it into a partisan topic Red by bringing that up, I certainly didn't.
I didn't bring any party into anything I posted. Is this what gaslighting is? I already said that the government shouldn't have bailed out anyone.
 

nala

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The problem with this is that it perpetuates the cycle of poverty. So education is only for the wealthy? For those from stable homes? It dooms those who through no fault of their own we’re not born into wealth. It’s why many countries invest in higher education and subsidize tuition (our universities here are not for profit).

I’m not exactly sure why student loan debt is not considered debt like any other - which is subject to bankruptcy laws. Maybe because most students would qualify to declare bankruptcy upon completion of school? If so isn’t that a problem?
This. There are a lot of posts in this thread suggesting this elitism. Mediocre. Remedial. Don’t go to college. Go to a trade school. Etc. Shocking coming from PS.
 

nala

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@nala pretending not to notice where my tax dollars are going is irresponsible to me. I’m older and have less time on this earth than some here, but I can’t ignore the debt burden being passed on to my kids, grandchildren, great grandchildren...Unfortunately each generation burdens to next. We have to be responsible fiscally, with our planet, etc.
I think we do our young people a huge disservice by not teaching them responsibility. We can’t just give away the store.

*I also wasn’t in favor of bank bailouts
Do you know exactly where they went last year? Can you provide me with an itemized list of where exactly your taxes went? Will your tax bracket change if this were to happen? By what percentage?
 

MollyMalone

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Would you support the idea for taxpayers paying off my daughter's mortgages?
If your daughter becomes jammed up financially, she can declare bankruptcy. Student loans, however, are not wiped out by bankruptcy.
ETA: We taxpayers are helping your daughter pay off her mortgage since the interest on up to 3/4 of a million dollars of that debt is a tax deduction.

It exasperates me to see all the scornful comments about "poor choices" as if every 17 - 18-year-old had/has the benefit of solid information and made a knowing choice with their eyes wide open. The U.S. Department of Education reported 3-1/2 years ago that 21% of public high schools in the US have no counselor, leaving about approximately 850,000 students on their own. Nationwide, high school counselors carry a "caseload" of more than 300 students. And with very rare exception, high school guidance counselors cannot devote themselves to helping those 300+ students make an informed decision about their post-graduation plans; counselors have a myriad of other responsibilities too.

Of course, not every high school student has to rely on their guidance counselor as their primary resource. But first generation college students are 2-1/2 times more likely to default on their college loans (10% of first generation college students vs 4% of those with parents who have at least a bachelor's degree).; also make up a higher percentage of those in arrears (not yet in default), so incur more debt because of interest rates. And first generation students are more likely to be susceptible to the marketing-recruiting come-ons of for-profit, private colleges which are all too often the educational equivalent of shady loan sharks. E.g., ITT Tech, Corinthian College, Educational Corporation of America's "colleges':

New York State has a public service loan forgiveness program that seems to work as intended. But on a national level, the federal program is disgraceful:

Agree whole-heartedly that
  • the high school curriculum should have a very practical component. My high school civics teacher worked in personal finances. as part of the examination of taxes & that was super useful no matter what any of us ended up doing after high school.
  • the emphasis on a college degree as a job qualifier should be dialed back (e.g., a Bachelor of Arts or B.S. is truly not necessary for rookie NYPD police officers to do their job, but it's a requirement)
As for the mythical student enrolled in organic candle making, how about structuring tuition and loans so as to "feed" certain programs of study more than others? E.g., lower tuition (at state schools, can't dictate why private schools charge) and more favorable loan terms for those who enroll and complete certificate/degree programs in plumbing and computer sciences than for law school students. Think Australia -- which I acknowledge subsidizes higher education to a far greater extent (percentage-wise, not dollar amounts) than the USA's federal, state, and local governments do -- pegs tuition according to the program of study. And were it up to me, non-accredited schools and/or under-performing "diploma mills" wouldn't be able to sell themselves to prospective/current students on the idea that you can afford to go there thanks to student loans.
 
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redwood66

Ideal_Rock
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6,606
If your daughter becomes jammed up financially, she can declare bankruptcy. Student loans, however, are not wiped out by bankruptcy.

It kinda exasperates me to see all the scornful comments about "poor choices" as if every 17 - 18-year-old had/has the benefit of solid information and made a knowing choice with their eyes wide open. The U.S. Department of Education reported 3-1/2 years ago that 21% of public high schools in the US have no counselor, leaving about approximately 850,000 students on their own. Nationwide, high school counselors carry a "caseload" of more than 300 students. And with very rare exception, high school guidance counselors cannot devote themselves to helping those 300+ students make an informed decision about their post-graduation plans; counselors have a myriad of other responsibilities too.

Of course, not every high school student has to rely on their guidance counselor as their primary resource. But first generation college students are 2-1/2 times more likely to default on their college loans (10% of first generation college students vs 4% of those with parents who have at least a bachelor's degree).; also make up a higher percentage of those in arrears (not yet in default). And first generation students are more likely to be susceptible to the marketing-recruiting come-ons of for-profit, private colleges which are all too often the educational equivalent of shady loan sharks. E.g., ITT Tech, Corinthian College, Educational Corporation of America's "colleges':

New York State has a public service loan forgiveness program that seems to work as intended. But on a national level, the federal program is disgraceful:

Agree whole-heartedly that
  • the high school curriculum should have a very practical component. My high school civics teacher worked in personal finances. as part of the examination of taxes & that was super useful no matter what any of us ended up doing after high school.
  • the emphasis on a college degree as a job qualifier should be dialed back (e.g., a Bachelor of Arts or B.S. is truly not necessary for rookie NYPD police officers to do their job, but it's a requirement)
As for the mythical student enrolled in organic candle making, how about structuring tuition and loans so as to "feed" certain programs of study more than others? E.g., lower tuition (at state schools, can't dictate why private schools charge) and more favorable loan terms for those who enroll and complete certificate/degree programs in plumbing and computer sciences than for law school students. Think Australia -- which I acknowledge subsidizes higher education to a far greater extent (percentage-wise, not dollar amounts) than the USA's federal, state, and local governments do -- pegs tuition according to the program of study. And were it up to me, non-accredited schools and/or under-performing "diploma mills" wouldn't be able to sell themselves to prospective/current students on the idea that you can afford to go there thanks to student loans.
All of these points are valid @MollyMalone but they don't address Ms. Warren's current plan to wipe out debt across the board up to $50K which was the original question. That is not the way to fix all the things you have so eloquently laid out.
 

msop04

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
9,756
Missy. Go back. You will see that prior to my post, the reason I cited is the central reason that some posters like Bonfire. Diamondseeker. Msop. Slick. Rocks. Kenny. Assherlover. Motherthing. Those are the ones that I just looked up. All sharing personal experiences to say that they shouldn’t pay for anyone else mistakes. Here’s the thing; just pretend that the taxes you are paying are going to any number of other programs you support. It’s that easy. Dont use the national debt to mask your middle class envy and allow for positive change. That is the plight of the middle class and always will be. And that is why I expressed my shock. That is all I have ever argued in my posts. But I guess it’s my mistake to assume these posters are liberals. Lol. now that I think about it. I shouldn’t be shocked. And yes. It’s a partisan issue. It will basically determine who are next president is NOT for the next 4 years.
It's not a partisan issue... the issue is personal responsibility.
You should never assume... anything.
B*tched to high heaven.
Image result for yep pointing gif

Same... and two or 3 hundred more wrongs by our government certainly won't make a right. This isn't some partisan tit for tat. The best solution going forward is teaching future generations the importance of financial planning and responsibility... and how uninformed and/or poor decisions can affect their lives. This starts at home, and should be echoed by the educational system as they go through school.
 

Tekate

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2013
Messages
6,158
There! I had way more solutions to pay for college back in the 70s. I had work study, I had Pell, I had low interest loans.

@msop04 I too have worries about us as a country controlling the debt we have to pay as citizens in higher taxes. I take a humanistic approach to this, you take the logical approach A + B = C (except when it doesn't) so I view this very much as the pain and tough luck these people have in being millennials, but also my grandparents were Depression era people and many people lost..so I also recognize that what goes around does come around eventually, what worries me is that it isn't coming around..

https://tinyurl.com/sgk94wy

and this

https://tinyurl.com/thl7q9y

this is my humanistic approach, I say unequivocally both are needed to have a society that is level and balance

I say again, I think personal responsibility if very important, but when the odds are much worse than ever that is very difficult for some and for those a helping hand couldn't hurt.
 
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