Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchase

[seaurchin]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

Well, LemonPoppy, I don't think we need to worry about you. It sounds like an ugly proposal, trying to make you eat it and all ready with another insult for you. In return, you turned the boy down flat, hahaha!

Since he got the ring his mommy wanted, maybe he should propose to her with it!

So sorry your happiness has taken a nosedive and I hope it all works out for the best.

 

[cellardoor433]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

Lula, I also teach uni students. I only wish that they are this inventive (if it's a hoax). The usual stories I get for essay extensions involve dead grandparents who somehow resurrect themselves (who needs religion, huh?) only to die again the next year.

Lemonpoppy, I am sorry if there are doubts about whether you are being genuine. It just seems so... extraordinary and nightmarish that I only wish it is not true because it's just awful. However, it sounds like you are handling the situation very calmly and maturely. Hope that you are taking care of yourself, and making your wellbeing and happiness a priority even if your soon-to-be-ex bf isn't taking note.

 

[Lula]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

Lula, I wish this whole thing was made up. My bf's and I have been doing some serious research and he can even say "oh, it's too deep" just by looking at a certificate. He was just determined to buy a diamond that would make his family happy. I just can't believe his attitude completely changed.

I'm still not convinced you are not pulling one over on us. But, on the chance this is real, I am very sorry you are going through this, LP. It just seems odd to me that your bf would spend all that time researching something, to the point of being knowledgeable enough to post on Rocky Talky, and then do an about-face and buy something that's the polar opposite of what he's been researching. That's just flaky. So your description of his actions lead me to believe he's either a flake or he's acting out of spite. You've got a decision to make. And you've been given some good advice on this thread.

 

[Christina...]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

Yeah, I have to say that I'm sort of with Lula on this. There is just too much that doesn't add up. Supposedly you had just discussed with him last night that you had concerns about where he placed you in this relationship and whether or not he was truly ready to put you first, and then less than 24 hours later he goes out a buys a ring completely different than what the two of you had discussed to what.....prove to you that you were right all along and that he doesn't care about how you feel?.... or to prove that you truly are greedy for not acceopting anything that he offered? (his point of view, not mine)... and your supposed to be grateful for this revelation? He truly can't be this stupid, you would have had to have notice his inferior intellect long before now!

If this is a joke, then haha you got us, but if it's real then, there is something much bigger going on then I'm prepared to offer advice or insight on. It just doesn't add up, a week ago you were blissfully planning the rest of your lives, and today he doesn't give a sh*t about your feelings? I'm sorry, but how long have the two of you been together?? Either he's turned into an idiot overnight or you're blind for not having seen that something was broken all along. People just don't change this drastically in the span of a few days.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

I wish I was dreaming. DIamondSeeker, the ring might come with a certificate, but I don't know. The diamond is between 0.5-1 carat, I think. My bf said any girl would be happy with a ring that came from her bf. I don't think he gets my point. Until last week, he was so excited about buying the ring of my dream. I'm going to try to talk to him again, but if he doesn't understand me, I need to move on. I love him and we've been together for almost 3 years. It really hurts to think about all the great memories.

Do you really know how much money he has in the bank? Because if he has that kind of money and you two had talked about a $20,000 budget before, a 1 ct. princess or less is probably $5-6000 max. You can't let him think it is the ring that is the dealbreaker. It is that he is not putting your needs and desires over that of his mother. Yes, that ring would be the dream of many girls if that is what their fiance could afford. But you were told a week ago that the budget could be $20k. I'd want to know why the amount suddenly changed especially since you both apparently work and contribute to your joint expenses.

 

[allowingtoo]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

It's all about control.

 

[Polished]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

I do believe it. He is caught in a struggle between a new life with LP and, obviously there are times they influence each other, and the conditioning and influence of his mother who has a strong hold over him. Having been caught up in the idea of buying a ring with LP and putting the work into getting the right one, had the effect of violently turning him off this course of action when another viewpoint was presented to him by his mother. Turning against the ring inevitably turns him against LP. Any conversation with him would necessarily need to make him confront his own behaviour as opposed to attempt to make him to see things from your perspective. "If you think I'm a b and greedy why would you want to marry me? Any woman would want to receive a ring from her boyfriend if it was given in a spirit of love, and an attempt was made to give her something you knew she would love, it's not about the money spent on it so don't throw greed into this ...."

 

[Rosebloom]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

Oh, LP I'm so sorry this is happening to you! How awful! I'm thinking of you and hoping you find a peaceful resolution.

 

[Christina...]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

I do believe it. He is caught in a struggle between a new life with LP and, obviously there are times they influence each other, and the conditioning and influence of his mother who has a strong hold over him. Having been caught up in the idea of buying a ring with LP and putting the work into getting the right one, had the effect of violently turning him off this course of action when another viewpoint was presented to him by his mother. Turning against the ring inevitably turns him against LP. Any conversation with him would necessarily need to make him confront his own behaviour as opposed to attempt to make him to see things from your perspective. "If you think I'm a b and greedy why would you want to marry me? Any woman would want to receive a ring from her boyfriend if it was given in a spirit of love, and an attempt was made to give her something you knew she would love, it's not about the money spent on it so don't throw greed into this ...."

Polished, you are so grounded and insightful! I've truly enjoyed reading your insight into this.

edit: omitted a word.

 

[Laila619]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

This story is just sounding more and more over the top. Why would he randomly propose today out of the blue?

 

[bonne403]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

I wish I was dreaming. DIamondSeeker, the ring might come with a certificate, but I don't know. The diamond is between 0.5-1 carat, I think. My bf said any girl would be happy with a ring that came from her bf. I don't think he gets my point. Until last week, he was so excited about buying the ring of my dream. I'm going to try to talk to him again, but if he doesn't understand me, I need to move on. I love him and we've been together for almost 3 years. It really hurts to think about all the great memories.

Do you really know how much money he has in the bank? Because if he has that kind of money and you two had talked about a $20,000 budget before, a 1 ct. princess or less is probably $5-6000 max. You can't let him think it is the ring that is the dealbreaker. It is that he is not putting your needs and desires over that of his mother. Yes, that ring would be the dream of many girls if that is what their fiance could afford. But you were told a week ago that the budget could be $20k. I'd want to know why the amount suddenly changed especially since you both apparently work and contribute to your joint expenses.

I'm with Diamondseeker on here. Make sure he knows that you are rejecting HIM, not the diamond. What a horrible situation. I'm sorry you are going through this.

 

[distracts]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

He would randomly propose out of the blue because yesterday she expressed doubts about the relationship and about choosing a lesser ring, and he's trying to force her hand to show her she'll accept anything he gives her, and to prove he's the dominant one with the control - he can propose to her at any time, with any thing, and she'll accept it. He called her an ungrateful b---- and in his mind, he was going to propose and she was going to say yes and he'd show her how grateful she was. And he would prove to her that he was putting her first by proposing. Except really he was putting his ego first.

This story isn't unbelievable to me because I've seen this sort of thing happen to friends and acquaintances before. And I've dated guys like this before. I hope it is fake but only because I hope Lemonpoppy isn't actually experiencing this heartbreak. I know firsthand how suddenly a relationship that you thought was great can suddenl crumble because you missed all the warning signs. In retrospect LP will see them, but when you're young and in love it all always seems so perfect. I mean, I dated someone who was verbally and emotionally abusive for a whole year before realizing it, when suddenly it was happening in public and not just in private. It happens. There are lots of crazy jerks out there. So sorry, LP, stay strong.

 

[Polished]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

Polished, you are so grounded and insightful! I've truly enjoyed reading your insight into this.

Thanks Christina. I'm not surprised people find the story bizarre but it's actually entirely consistent with the psychology that is at play. If ever there was an example of the importance for people to develop their own independent opinions, beliefs, values, decisions this is it. Bf takes on not only the idea of someone else, but also the guilt trip that went with it, and the sense that he and his fiance are not as worthy as the BIL and SIL. Bf then transfers this guilt trip onto LP and buys a ring that shows up just how undeserving they were of the ring that they had previously had the gall to aspire to. Mid summer madness!

 

[Venti25]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

I can't get over the insults . It sounds like his mother is totally involving herself, is perceived money a factor here?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

I can't get over the insults . It sounds like his mother is totally involving herself, is perceived money a factor here?

I think the mother is an absolute control freak. I really don't think it is about money.

 

[Venti25]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

I can't get over the insults . It sounds like his mother is totally involving herself, is perceived money a factor here?

I think the mother is an absolute control freak. I really don't think it is about money.

I asked because it's quite possible the mother dislikes LP. Hence the game with the engagement rings, "if she doesn't accept then she's just after the money" and she's poisoning the BF's mind "greedy, ungrateful" etc. Gosh I sound terrible even contemplating this about someone else. At any rate, it still sounds like a walk situation.

 

[missy]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

Yes, the mother sounds horrible but the blame is 100% on the boyfriend IMO. It is up to him to not let his mother poison his mind against his gf and it is up to him to put the gf first. There is only room for 2 people in a marriage and the MIL doesn't factor into this equation. Period.

Put all the blame you want on her but ultimately it is his fault. I know what I am talking about because my MIL was absolutely awful towards me and spoke badly about me to my dh (when we were dating and he was still my bf) but my dh (bf at the time) told her that he loved me and I was an important part of his life and if she wanted to continue being a part of his (and our) life she was going to have to behave respectfully towards me. He wouldn't tolerate any ill behavior. Period.

Some of you have said that when you marry the man you are marrying the family (or words to that effect) and heck, my own dad said that to me during that time. Thank goodness I went with my heart and didn't let my bf's family sway me from spending the rest of my life with him. But that can only work when your man behaves like a man and not a little boy. I posted this before but it bears repeating. This guy sounds like an immature idiot and if someone so close to me spoke like that to me and behaved like that I couldn't stay until there were major behavior modifications. It shows a complete lack of respect on his part towards his girlfriend. Shameful.

If this situation is real my heart goes out to you but take responsibility and don't make the biggest mistake of your life. Think long and hard and do what you know is best for you. So sorry you are dealing with this and I hope you see the light at the end of the tunnel and can move forward in a positive and hopeful way.

 

[allowingtoo]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/i-hope-i-dont-sound-ungrateful-but.177095/

I kept thinking this thread sounded like a flashback. We never did hear how that one ended did we?

I'm of the school that there are only 2 emotions - Fear or Love. And right now I think everyone is coming from Fear.

A lot of buttons got pushed when the subject of the wedding/engagement/permanent situation came up. Maybe more so on their side than with you, but still there never the less. It also happened to me with my (now) Husband and his ex wife of 34 years. She went ballistic and wrote him a letter calling me every 5 letter word she could think of and then some. He never told me about it or anything but I found it anyway. Like I said, always note how the man treats the women in his past, because he never spoke anything but utmost respect about his ex wife. At first I was angry but then I realized she was scared that I was coming in between him and his family. I honored the place she had held in his life for 34 years. She was the only male she'd ever known, she'd raised his children, she'd gotten him sober, and she'd had to let him go when they grew apart. I wrote her a letter expressing all of this and never mailed it, just in a journal kind of thing I did. I came from my heart, and shortly afterwards, she did a 180, which I didn't expect. Something shifted for her. We are not best friends but I truly respect her and we see each other at family gatherings. I had no desire to exclude her as his family is extremely close and I have none.

 

[smitcompton]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

Hi again,

Its very hard to believe someone would would act this way on their engagement. Last nite I had decided it wasn't a true story.
If it is true, just look at how he has ruined the engagement process. I'm sorry for you, but if this is true, he is not marriage material.
A man should cherish his future wife. I don't think he loves you enough. I would leave him. Really.

Annette

 

[junebug17]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

I'll repeat what I said in a previous post - your bf isn't getting what the really issue is Lemonpoppy, and I don't know whether it's because he's completely ignoring you or you aren't communicating it well enough to him. All discussion seems to be centered around the ring. It's not about the ring - it's about him being so easily influenced by his controlling mother. He keeps bringing it back to the ring and blaming you with comments like "you're greedy" and "you're ungrateful".

Look, I wouldn't have a problem if he just said he's having second thoughts about spending that much money on a ring. $20,0000 is a lot of money. And just because he has it doesn't mean he wants to spend it. There's a part of me that thinks the expense might be at least a small part of this. But going by what you've written overall I think it's because he doesn't want to anger or upset mommy. And you have to make sure he understands that's why you're so upset. Not because you're not getting the ring of your dreams.

If he's unwilling to acknowledge what the real problem is and work on it, maybe it's best to at least take a break. I wish you the best!

 

[VRBeauty]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/i-hope-i-dont-sound-ungrateful-but.177095/

I kept thinking this thread sounded like a flashback. We never did hear how that one ended did we?

We've had a couple of examples in the past year or two of where women came here with concerns about "the ring," but the ensuing discussion (here and/or with the fiance) revealed much deeper problems and/or deception, and it apparently led to the end of the engagement or marriage. At least one of those was a prior PS member. It's not that surprising really. We tend to talk about engagement rings in terms of bling and value and aesthetics rather than talking about what the rings represent. IRL that tiny piece of metal and stone represents huge things - the couple's values, commitment, loyalty, and to some extent their finances.

Someone said "it's the marriage, not the ring" that counts - and in this case, the story of the ring does not bode well for the marriage.

 

[Circe]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

It's all about control.

This.

He would randomly propose out of the blue because yesterday she expressed doubts about the relationship and about choosing a lesser ring, and he's trying to force her hand to show her she'll accept anything he gives her, and to prove he's the dominant one with the control - he can propose to her at any time, with any thing, and she'll accept it. He called her an ungrateful b---- and in his mind, he was going to propose and she was going to say yes and he'd show her how grateful she was. And he would prove to her that he was putting her first by proposing. Except really he was putting his ego first.

This story isn't unbelievable to me because I've seen this sort of thing happen to friends and acquaintances before. And I've dated guys like this before. I hope it is fake but only because I hope Lemonpoppy isn't actually experiencing this heartbreak. I know firsthand how suddenly a relationship that you thought was great can suddenl crumble because you missed all the warning signs. In retrospect LP will see them, but when you're young and in love it all always seems so perfect. I mean, I dated someone who was verbally and emotionally abusive for a whole year before realizing it, when suddenly it was happening in public and not just in private. It happens. There are lots of crazy jerks out there. So sorry, LP, stay strong.

And this, especially the bolded, times a thousand.

I don't think you're trolling us, LemonPoppy - for one thing, by this point a troll would have been incapable of resisting the temptation to sockpuppet it up and introduce a putative opponent, somebody to insist it WAS all about love and women who said otherwise were materialistic. For another, trolls have perfect stories and there are a lot of gaps here. I hope you might fill them in eventually so you can get better advice, but the fact that this isn't a scripted whole makes me think you're hurting and just reeling off the most recent confusing things. So, first and foremost - you have my sympathy.

Back to the issue, though - I would guess on a subconscious level, even as he's following his mother's terrible manipulative advice, he's trying to assert control, unfortunately not over her but over YOU. But at the core of it is the desire to have control, and because of poor training, there's no room for compromise. It's all very Freudian: while being consciously obedient and loyal to his mom, I would guess he's a boiling pit of rage inside. But since it would go against all of his training to lash out at her, the next-closest emotional equivalent in his life - YOU - bears the brunt of it. It's a perfect psychological knot: by obeying his mother's rivalrous edicts concerning you, he's also punishing the mother-imago in his head for being controlling and demanding when he tells you that YOU are ungrateful, YOU are controlling, YOU are demanding.

What a mess.

My advice? THERAPY. Ya'll can't fix this on your own, it is, a) complicated, and, b) will be helped along by Mommy Dearest at every step until she has her good little boy back at home, living in her basement. A good couples counselor would work wonders. In the meantime, a book I found really useful was http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Love-You-Want-Anniversary/dp/0805087001. It's a little touchy-feely, but it really addresses how parental interference can resonate in a relationship.

I would be very curious to know if she pulled this same sort of nonsense on your potential BIL and SIL, and if that is why she mentioned she'd never want to live near the woman ... and if maybe your BF's brother might be able to tell him how to get free of it.

 

[bgray]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

I agree with Circe and many others--Lemonpoppy said that the bf was jewish and born in the US--that comment makes me wonder if she was. So then I wondered if LP was from another cultural or racial background--perhaps Asian. I mention this because many jewish men marry asian women because they are from a more hierarchical "traditional" society where the man is the absolute authority and the females are historically subservient. (they used to marry italian catholics for the same reason). They are rebelling against their own culture by choosing someone not jewish BUT choosing someone who will behave the same way. Psych 101 here I fear that LP has a bf totally controlled by a dominating jewish mother who probably is livid that he is marry out of the jewish culture and has planted the idea that she is after his money and/or is spoiled and "ungrateful." BF may have bought that ring hoping she would take it to prove to his mother that she was wrong...........

 

[ruby59]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

I also have my doubts if this is legit. I found it strange that a man would even know the stats on his sister in law's engagement ring. But a sort of diamond newbie, during a heated discussion, would even remember the clarity and color scale to know SI1 is lower than VS2.

As a Jewish woman who dated Jewish men but ultimately married outside her faith, I found that "mamas boys" attached to their Jewish moms were also very skittish when it came to all women.

What I do not understand is that if this woman did not like the OP because she was not Jewish, wouldn't there have been some evidence of it in the courtship? She certainly would have tried to break it up before it got too far.

There are always 2 sides to every story. Could it be that when the boyfriend did research on the larger diamond, he realized it was too expensive, yet the OP still insisted. Could giving her the Princess cut be his way of seeing if she loved him, not his money.

If the OP is indeed of a culture that makes her subservient to men, would we even be having this conversation?

 

[Circe]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

Eh. Mothers without boundaries usually aren't too picky about the flavor of the relationship they're poisoning - the first and last time I dated a Nice Jewish Boy (who started talking marriage on the first date), his mother made sure to tell him that I wasn't a Real Jew (TM) and that I was damaged goods because I'd been engaged before. And he, of course, told me all about it, because they had an inappropriately close relationship and he didn't know from boundaries. Made me feel worse about myself and my identity as a minority in this country than any WASP ever has.

As an aside, I'll also note that he was very big on telling me that when he got engaged he was going to propose with his mother's ring, a heart-shaped two-carat stone that her father, a jeweler, had procured for her. Even at the time, something about the psychological implications of a mother giving up a symbol like that so her son could wed struck me as being a little off - it's like a literal interpretation of the child's romantic partner replacing the parent in his or her affections. Brr.

Jewish mothers, to be fair, aren't the only offenders in the controlling stakes - there have been variations from Taipai to Timbuktu. I think the OP only specified because people were wondering if she or he were from cultures big on filial piety. I think initially people were suspecting Asia or East Asia because of the emphasis on the bro's ring, and on the specs?

 

[mandasand]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

Hi again,

Its very hard to believe someone would would act this way on their engagement. Last nite I had decided it wasn't a true story.
If it is true, just look at how he has ruined the engagement process. I'm sorry for you, but if this is true, he is not marriage material.
A man should cherish his future wife. I don't think he loves you enough. I would leave him. Really.

Annette

I agree with you. It really should have nothing to do with the ring. I think the OP may have misrepresented herself on that part. She was right to tell her BF that she wasn't sure about getting engaged, not because the ring wasn't right but because of the way he was treating her.

 

[jstarfireb]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

Just as others have said, make sure he knows it's not about the ring itself. The ring was just a catalyst. At some point this side of him would have come out over something else (the wedding, your future house, kids, whatever). The fact that it happened to be triggered by the ring doesn't mean you're material or greedy or ungrateful.

 

[valchiria]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

The first thing is the respect! In each type of relation!
LP, if my husband had tried to use those words with me, today HE would be the WIFE of someone else.
For me is something unreal to have a relationship with a person who has no respect and that is rude.
I'm sorry for your situation. I wish you'll find the solution.

I agree with Circe and many others--Lemonpoppy said that the bf was jewish and born in the US--that comment makes me wonder if she was. So then I wondered if LP was from another cultural or racial background--perhaps Asian. I mention this because many jewish men marry asian women because they are from a more hierarchical "traditional" society where the man is the absolute authority and the females are historically subservient. (they used to marry italian catholics for the same reason). They are rebelling against their own culture by choosing someone not jewish BUT choosing someone who will behave the same way. Psych 101 here I fear that LP has a bf totally controlled by a dominating jewish mother who probably is livid that he is marry out of the jewish culture and has planted the idea that she is after his money and/or is spoiled and "ungrateful." BF may have bought that ring hoping she would take it to prove to his mother that she was wrong...........

My husband asks where he can find those italian women, in which country and in which century. Here in Italy he was not very lucky

 

[bgray]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

The first thing is the respect! In each type of relation!
LP, if my husband had tried to use those words with me, today HE would be the WIFE of someone else.
For me is something unreal to have a relationship with a person who has no respect and that is rude.
I'm sorry for your situation. I wish you'll find the solution.

I agree with Circe and many others--Lemonpoppy said that the bf was jewish and born in the US--that comment makes me wonder if she was. So then I wondered if LP was from another cultural or racial background--perhaps Asian. I mention this because many jewish men marry asian women because they are from a more hierarchical "traditional" society where the man is the absolute authority and the females are historically subservient. (they used to marry italian catholics for the same reason). They are rebelling against their own culture by choosing someone not jewish BUT choosing someone who will behave the same way. Psych 101 here I fear that LP has a bf totally controlled by a dominating jewish mother who probably is livid that he is marry out of the jewish culture and has planted the idea that she is after his money and/or is spoiled and "ungrateful." BF may have bought that ring hoping she would take it to prove to his mother that she was wrong...........

My husband asks where he can find those italian women, in which country and in which century. Here in Italy he was not very lucky

i know it is dangerous to generalize. though i believe there to be a generational component. i am probably old enough that using my parents as a guide may be flawed!

 

[TC1987]

Re: Sad and confused about my future engagement ring purchas

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/i-hope-i-dont-sound-ungrateful-but.177095/

I kept thinking this thread sounded like a flashback. We never did hear how that one ended did we?

That was the first thing I thought of, too. Of course, there no doubt are some men who will say anything, including "Sure, we'll get married. Go pick out a ring" to buy themselves some time to do whatever, like stall for time while they are seeking their next girlfriend. And some women never see through it until it's too late and they have gotten badly hurt, either because they are too trusting and too much in love, or because admitting the truth is too painful.

Remember that "psycho girlfriend" set of supposed answering machine recordings that was all over the Internet, what 8 or 9 years ago? He was done with her, and allegedly she made a fool of herself by calling repeatedly and leaving increasingly desperate messages on his answering machine, "Like I haven't heard from you. What's going on, here???" If that was real, that guy was a psychopath and that woman was either completely naive or just could not accept the reality.

eta: I just read the entire thread and got the update. My advice is do exactly what a man would do: Dump him, without saying a word, and just find a new bf. (Find a new place to live, if you were living together. I don't recall...) If he ever contacts you to find out what's going on, just say, nonchalantly, "Oh, I need someone who is easier to be with and more fun than you are. You and your mother made me miserable because you are too hard to get along with. But don't worry, you'll find somebody." Even if it feels like it will kill you.