Real People Are Dying / Trump Kills

[Tekate]

Deflect I'm sure Kenny is smarter that this below DF. If you and the DW would be fighting then both of you should shop till you drop (literally).. volunteer in the Asian communities and help new immigrants etc.. plenty of things to do rather than be a socialist

If we weren't babysitting our grandkids we would have kill each other by now.

 

[Tekate]

No you will buy them, you can give up free daycare (you socialist!) and put any monies toward pampers (altho she should be using cotton diapers because of cost dont ya think? it's much cheaper! and better for the environment). She can just not pay her mortgage a lot of people aren't, apply for loans! from the Trump socialist government of America.. you guys need to get straight if you all are socialists or supply side..sheesh.

No problem I'll tell my daughter Maria will pay her mortgage and buy diapers for her babies.

 

[chemgirl]

But on the other hand isn't it selfish of Kenny to take freedom away from other people?.. IOW, it doesn't matter if the public were 100% infected with the virus Kenny can protect himself by staying home.

I know you’re probably wilfully ignoring the point, but staying at home doesn’t kill people. Going out can kill people. It’s selfish to do things that you know can kill people. Obviously.

And I’m not talking about the people who have to work to provide essential services. Going to the beach/bar/hairdresser that’s messed up.

And back to add that this car analogy being thrown around is asinine. If you’re going to compare breaking quarantine to driving then compare it to reckless driving. Running red lights, failing to stop at stops signs, driving under the influence, excessive speeding can all harm others and are inherently selfish acts.

 

[Maria D]

No problem I'll tell my daughter Maria will pay her mortgage and buy diapers for her babies.

Are you saying she HAS to work? What happened to freedom? You said it was everybody's choice whether to go out or not. Are you saying she DOESN'T have a choice? But what about all the other people I mentioned in the post, you know the parts that you don't bother to address? Are you saying they have NO CHOICE either? OMG DF, we might have to walk back on our logic here...yikes!

You said everyone who wants to stay home can stay home and be safe, that it was none of their business if other people want to go out and take risks. BUT NOW YOU ARE SAYING THAT ALL THESE OTHER PEOPLE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LET THE GERM FACTORIES GET THEM!!!! Do you see the hole in that "logic?" (hahahahahaha, just kidding I'm sure that you don't)

I think your daughter has her mortgage and diaper money all figured out. Let grandparents babysit so she can keep all her earned money and not have to waste it on paid daycare. And if mommy and daddy get sick and die? No problem, she'll just cash in those inherited gems! Smart girl.

 

[Maria D]

DIL creds:
B.S. in Molecular and Cellular Biology and, University of Arizona Honors College, 2007

Ph.D. in Molecular and Cell Biology UC Berkly

Post Doc fellow at UT studying bacterial on a 50K per year fellowship

So man up and get your kid off the Dad/Mom dole and free yourself to go shopping and eating out every day! Trump commands it.

Oh Tekate, this is nothing but a "so-called scientist" to DF.

 

[CareBear]

@Dancing Fire I am concerned for you and your wife. It sounds like from your posts that your daughter, who works at a hospital, drops off your grandchild at your house everyday and picks the child up after work?! This is SERIOUSLY not safe for you and your wife, as I assume both of you are passed the age of 60?

 

[Queenie60]

Deflect I'm sure Kenny is smarter that this below DF. If you and the DW would be fighting then both of you should shop till you drop (literally).. volunteer in the Asian communities and help new immigrants etc.. plenty of things to do rather than be a socialist

Why the "bash DF today"? Perhaps his babysitting is cultural and he doesn't quite explain it to your liking? Why can't we respect one another rather than constantly bashing those who have a difference of lifestyle or opinion?

 

[Matata]

There is something we are ignoring in the debate about when and how to reopen and what our responsibility is to protect the vulnerable. The quote below brings up something that's uncomfortable for us to think about and that is that as a society we already make decisions about who should die. All human life is important we say? What about our choice to send men and women into war? As a society our justification is it's for the safety of the country and retention of freedom so any ensuing deaths are tolerated.

What about when we fail to provide healthcare for all? As a society we don't want our taxes raised to pay for it apparently because we'd rather contribute to the death rate. Those 26,000 Americans who die each year due to lack of health insurance don't fall into the "innocent" category that is so often thrown about in these discussions? As a society we say we don't want innocent people to die and I've often wondered how we determine innocence especially when we don't know most of the people we're talking about. I suppose that's why 30 states still have the death penalty so they can choose to kill those they deem not innocent.

What about our failure to address homelessness and the attendant mortality rate? The homeless mortality stats were awful before the pandemic and are incomprehensible now. As a society we fail to address the problem and as a result sanction those deaths.

As a society we choose every day to sanction the deaths of soldiers, the homeless, the mentally ill, brown-skinned people. Why then this anger and horror from those of us who are appalled at the idea that "innocent' "vulnerable" people will die if we choose economic health of the US over the safety of its citizens. As a society we make that choice every day.

 

[Babyblue033]

As much as I would like to blame Trump for all the failings we've seen during this global pandemic, I think we're doing a pretty bad job as a society and individuals all on our own with no help from our government. Look at all those people who refuse to follow the basic rules/guidelines set by their governors, measures that were put into place in order to protect them as well as everyone around them. People protesting for the right to get a hair cut, who cares if that might kill their hairdressers or their families? They want the "right" to not wear masks in public, they don't want their "liberties" taken away by their governments. Sure, Trump surely didn't help as a leader of this country, but there are plenty of this attitude going around.

On a FB parenting group I follow, they were discussing about what it might look like when schools open. So many parents were adamant that they will not have their children wear masks at school, they said they'll homeschool their kids if schools required them to wear masks. They insisted that kids will not tolerate it (many children in Asia already do this), it won't work, it'll cause health issues, and many complained that they themselves get sick/light headed when they have to wear a mask for short grocery runs. Honestly I was flabbergasted that a simple task of wearing a mask to protect everyone was met with such hostility. An article today about people canceling their Costco membership because Costco is mandating all customers to wear face covering. How dare them telling us what to do, I'll never set foot in the store if they make me wear mask to protect those around me, including Costco employees. God forbid they have to wear a mask for 30 min, while doctors & nurses are wearing them to a point that they're getting marks on their faces.

Where are we getting such selfish notion that our rights and liberties are more important than lives of others? We're not talking about forcing everyone to stay home here, we're talking about taking certain measures so that we CAN go back to work, to school, etc. But if people simply REFUSE to follow any guidelines, while at the same time complaining about being stuck at home, I don't know what kind of hope we have in coming out of this.

I think I might need a break from news and forums (and FB) for a few days, recent news have been more disheartening than the virus itself...

 

[Queenie60]

Are you saying she HAS to work? What happened to freedom? You said it was everybody's choice whether to go out or not. Are you saying she DOESN'T have a choice? But what about all the other people I mentioned in the post, you know the parts that you don't bother to address? Are you saying they have NO CHOICE either? OMG DF, we might have to walk back on our logic here...yikes!

You said everyone who wants to stay home can stay home and be safe, that it was none of their business if other people want to go out and take risks. BUT NOW YOU ARE SAYING THAT ALL THESE OTHER PEOPLE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LET THE GERM FACTORIES GET THEM!!!! Do you see the hole in that "logic?" (hahahahahaha, just kidding I'm sure that you don't)

I think your daughter has her mortgage and diaper money all figured out. Let grandparents babysit so she can keep all her earned money and not have to waste it on paid daycare. And if mommy and daddy get sick and die? No problem, she'll just cash in those inherited gems! Smart girl.

That's a mean thing to say about his daughter since you don't know their entire situation. Perhaps the babysitting is a joy for DF and his wife, perhaps it's cultural or maybe it's his way of helping them save as he may not have the funds to help them in other ways. Pretty harsh judgement.

 

[nala]

As much as I would like to blame Trump for all the failings we've seen during this global pandemic, I think we're doing a pretty bad job as a society and individuals all on our own with no help from our government. Look at all those people who refuse to follow the basic rules/guidelines set by their governors, measures that were put into place in order to protect them as well as everyone around them. People protesting for the right to get a hair cut, who cares if that might kill their hairdressers or their families? They want the "right" to not wear masks in public, they don't want their "liberties" taken away by their governments. Sure, Trump surely didn't help as a leader of this country, but there are plenty of this attitude going around.

On a FB parenting group I follow, they were discussing about what it might look like when schools open. So many parents were adamant that they will not have their children wear masks at school, they said they'll homeschool their kids if schools required them to wear masks. They insisted that kids will not tolerate it (many children in Asia already do this), it won't work, it'll cause health issues, and many complained that they themselves get sick/light headed when they have to wear a mask for short grocery runs. Honestly I was flabbergasted that a simple task of wearing a mask to protect everyone was met with such hostility. An article today about people canceling their Costco membership because Costco is mandating all customers to wear face covering. How dare them telling us what to do, I'll never set foot in the store if they make me wear mask to protect those around me, including Costco employees. God forbid they have to wear a mask for 30 min, while doctors & nurses are wearing them to a point that they're getting marks on their faces.

Where are we getting such selfish notion that our rights and liberties are more important than lives of others? We're not talking about forcing everyone to stay home here, we're talking about taking certain measures so that we CAN go back to work, to school, etc. But if people simply REFUSE to follow any guidelines, while at the same time complaining about being stuck at home, I don't know what kind of hope we have in coming out of this.

I think I might need a break from news and forums (and FB) for a few days, recent news have been more disheartening than the virus itself...

Our next big battle will be with contact tracing.

 

[Arcadian]

Survey gives glimpse of damage in tourism industry

Tourism-related businesses that reported laying off employees over a three-week period because of the coronavirus pandemic reduced staff by an average of 73 percent, according to an industry survey released Tuesday. Also, the group Destinations Florida found that many travel-related businesses...

cbs12.com

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — Tourism-related businesses that reported laying off employees over a three-week period because of the coronavirus pandemic reduced staff by an average of 73 percent, according to an industry survey released Tuesday.

Also, the group Destinations Florida found that many travel-related businesses aren’t getting requested federal stimulus assistance to help deal with the crisis.

“We knew the numbers for April would look worse than the numbers from March as our state began to institute closures and stricter guidelines as part of its pandemic response,” said Robert Skrob, executive director of Destinations Florida, which represents travel-marketing organizations.

In a survey of 1,009 tourism-related businesses that dealt with the period from March 19 to April 15, Destinations Florida found that 72 percent of respondents had applied for federal assistance. But just 17 percent of those businesses had received federal money.


The survey also found mid-April hotel occupancy at 13 percent, down from 84 percent at the same point a year earlier.

The Orlando Sentinel on Monday reported a Florida Department of Revenue preliminary estimate on sales tax collections showed revenue at least $770 million below estimates for March, about 25 percent less than expected for the month. Tourism businesses are a key player in sales tax revenue.

Skrob expressed “hope is on the horizon” as the state on Monday began the first of a three-phased economic reopening under Gov. Ron DeSantis.

“Now, more than ever, we will need the funds collected for tourism promotion through local tourism taxes to promote our destinations to potential visitors,” Skrob said. “Our local tourism promotion organizations are ready to do their part to bring visitors back to Florida so we can rekindle Florida’s and local economies.”

DeSantis’ first phase, considered a soft reopening that excludes coronavirus hotspots Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties, limits restaurants and retailers to 25 percent occupancy. There are no timelines for the second and third phases.

DeSantis said Monday that getting the tourism industry back will require a renewed confidence in the industry.

“We've kept a lot of things going. Construction, we've accelerated road projects. The tourism is just going to be something that once people have confidence, and once we're ready I think, can turn on,” DeSantis said. “That'll be a process as well. But I think a lot of the things in the economy we've tried to keep going. So, if you take away kind of our tourist stuff, hopefully we're not in as big a hole as some of these other states, and we can get back going a little quicker.”

The industry survey asked tourism-related businesses whether they had laid off employees in the three weeks leading up to April 15. Of the respondents, 45 percent said they had laid off employees. Those businesses said they had laid off an average of 73 percent of their employees.

In a March survey, 67 percent of respondents said they had laid off employees. Both surveys also showed widespread reductions in employee hours.

Since March 15, the state has received 1.78 million unemployment applications, of which more than 1 million are considered “unique,” as some people filed more than one claim.

As of Sunday, 478,666, or 45.7 percent, of the unique applicants had started to receive weekly state unemployment checks of up to $275.

The state Department of Economic Opportunity said more than $979 million has been paid out to applicants, of which $702 million, or 71.7 percent, was money from a federal stimulus program.

DeSantis said the goal of the phased approach is to get people back to work “sooner than in a normal recession.”

DeSantis noted that outside of Southeast Florida, where the epidemic has hit the hardest, he’s tried to minimize “as much damage as I could.”

The state’s tourism marketing agency Visit Florida is putting together a multi-year, four-phase marketing “rebound” plan in response to the virus.

Visit Florida President Dana Young said last month that hotel revenue in Florida was down more than $1.6 billion from March 1 to April 11, compared to the same period a year earlier.

In the same time, the number of people flying into Florida was down more than 65 percent, with international flights off nearly 80 percent, Young said.

 

[Arcadian]

There is something we are ignoring in the debate about when and how to reopen and what our responsibility is to protect the vulnerable. The quote below brings up something that's uncomfortable for us to think about and that is that as a society we already make decisions about who should die. All human life is important we say? What about our choice to send men and women into war? As a society our justification is it's for the safety of the country and retention of freedom so any ensuing deaths are tolerated.

What about when we fail to provide healthcare for all? As a society we don't want our taxes raised to pay for it apparently because we'd rather contribute to the death rate. Those 26,000 Americans who die each year due to lack of health insurance don't fall into the "innocent" category that is so often thrown about in these discussions? As a society we say we don't want innocent people to die and I've often wondered how we determine innocence especially when we don't know most of the people we're talking about. I suppose that's why 30 states still have the death penalty so they can choose to kill those they deem not innocent.

What about our failure to address homelessness and the attendant mortality rate? The homeless mortality stats were awful before the pandemic and are incomprehensible now. As a society we fail to address the problem and as a result sanction those deaths.

As a society we choose every day to sanction the deaths of soldiers, the homeless, the mentally ill, brown-skinned people. Why then this anger and horror from those of us who are appalled at the idea that "innocent' "vulnerable" people will die if we choose economic health of the US over the safety of its citizens. As a society we make that choice every day.

This is probably going to sound callous. Did we protect our vulnerable outside of this pandemic? No. we talked a good game of it but no. it will be the same as we go forward. We (the United states) will talk a good game. But it will be business as usual.

The sole purpose of flattening the curve was to not overwhelm the health care system. And in some cases that worked. The unfortunate side effect of flattening the curve is the dollars lost in every country that shut down and that comes back to bite us. There will be states that can manage that better than others. I'm in a state where it will be quite crippling.

The US is not a cash rich country, and many states aren't either. we put on a pretty good face about it though.

The curve in some areas might have been sufficiently flatter than first predicted. I think there will be spikes though not country wide.

Now, the unfortunate of all this is people are still gonna die and will it be our most vulnerable? probably yes.

There's some interesting realizations coming out of all of this, namely how this virus works, why it attacks certain people in certain ways, and has laid bare a very distinct socioeconomic divide even in some of the richest cities.

But I think all of these things are a given.

In this country you will have people who will not wear masks for any reason. Some of it is sensory, others is because they're being told to and they don't feel you should tell them what to do. And they don't care because this thing has not affected them and it actually still may not.

My personal view is to get at least 60-70% of the population to wear the damn things , wash their hands and social distance, and it will make a difference. that other 30% makes up people that do have the sensory issues with wearing anything on their face people who might not have access to masks, and the hard heads.

 

[Dancing Fire]

@Dancing Fire I am concerned for you and your wife. It sounds like from your posts that your daughter, who works at a hospital, drops off your grandchild at your house everyday and picks the child up after work?! This is SERIOUSLY not safe for you and your wife, as I assume both of you are passed the age of 60?

No we go to their house to babysit. Yes we are 60 but someone must babysit. Like I said I'm concern about catching the virus but not freak out about it. On a scale of 1-10 I'm about a 5.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Why the "bash DF today"? Perhaps his babysitting is cultural and he doesn't quite explain it to your liking? Why can't we respect one another rather than constantly bashing those who have a difference of lifestyle or opinion?

Today?? The PS liberals been doing it for the past 12 yrs.

 

[AGBF]

Here is why I don’t think that it is money-driven.

What would be any other reason for knowingly causing an increase in human deaths, as from the beginning we have known that ending a lock-down would, except to stimulate the economy, a money driven motive?

 

[Dancing Fire]

That's a mean thing to say about his daughter since you don't know their entire situation. Perhaps the babysitting is a joy for DF and his wife, perhaps it's cultural or maybe it's his way of helping them save as he may not have the funds to help them in other ways. Pretty harsh judgement.

Yup, wife and I really enjoys playing with our 3 grandkids. Wife was sitting at home for 1.5 yrs after her retirement waiting to be a grandma then suddenly we have 3 grandkids within 2 yrs. ..

 

[nala]

What would be any other reason for knowingly causing an increase in human deaths, as from the beginning we have known that ending a lock-down would, except to stimulate the economy, a money driven motive?

Please read my posts. I’ve explained my rationale. Feel free to question me specifically after you cite my posts.

 

[AGBF]

Please read my posts. I’ve explained my rationale. Feel free to question me specifically after you cite my posts.

I just cited one of your posts, nala. Obviously I read it.

 

[nala]

I just cited one of your posts, nala. Obviously I read it.

No. You cited a sentence. It was followed by my rationale. But you conveniently omitted my rationale as you took my quote out of context. I’m not interested in debating with you. Scroll past my posts and move on.

 

[House Cat]

it seems as though he is intentionally making the worst decisions possible for the American People.

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news.google.com

 

[AGBF]

I’m not interested in debating with you.

You were interested in debating with me until you had no answer to my point.

I did not say that stimulating the economy, a money driven motive, was evil. I just said that stimulating the economy was a money driven motive...by definition. Perhaps a necessary one to keep the country running, but nonetheless a money driven motive.

 

[nala]

You were interested in debating with me until you had no answer to my point.

I did not say that stimulating the economy, a money driven motive, was evil. I just said that stimulating the economy was a money driven motive...by definition. Perhaps a necessary one to keep the country running, but nonetheless a money driven motive.

Don’t make assumptions. Go back and read. I posted like a gazillion posts. Scrutinize them if you must. I don’t care to repeat them but you have the freedom to do so since you are fixating on my posts. Enjoy!

 

[Tekate]

I'm pointing out the error of his thinking Queenie. It's fine and dandy that ANYONE has a difference of opinion or lifestyle, although babysitting your grands so your kid can save money isn't a lifestyle, it's a choice, respect others opinions? Well that starts on the other side in my book, if pubs and conservatives start respecting education, science, common sense, and not be hypocrites things might start to change.

Why the "bash DF today"? Perhaps his babysitting is cultural and he doesn't quite explain it to your liking? Why can't we respect one another rather than constantly bashing those who have a difference of lifestyle or opinion?

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

What is it like where you are @nala

What's the general gist amongst people you know? Do you get groceries once a week? More than that? Less than that? Buy take out? Go for walks?

Our government updated their virus maps and there are only about 3 active cases in each suburb.

Our Premier is on every few days telling people to go get tested even if they have a sore throat or a sniffle. She expesses disappointment when we don't report large testing numbers. It's like a "Now don't be shy because it's the weekend! Go get tested!" or "Not many of you presented for testing in the last few days. We need to test more!"
Not exact quotes but you get the idea.
We have the app.

I dodge people but on the whole I'm very comfortable grocery shopping or even venturing out to support certain businesses. I'm going to look for a good sushi joint next.......

Hubby is being asked to return to work three days in a few weeks. We're ok with that. Got to start somewhere......

which state do you live in neighbour ?

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

No we go to their house to babysit. Yes we are 60 but someone must babysit. Like I said I'm concern about catching the virus but not freak out about it. On a scale of 1-10 I'm about a 5.

im a bit confused about this thead
when did you become a socialist?

serously though stay safe, you and your wife, i know you love and adore that baby grandaughter

 

[Queenie60]

I'm pointing out the error of his thinking Queenie. It's fine and dandy that ANYONE has a difference of opinion or lifestyle, although babysitting your grands so your kid can save money isn't a lifestyle, it's a choice, respect others opinions? Well that starts on the other side in my book, if pubs and conservatives start respecting education, science, common sense, and not be hypocrites things might start to change.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion however I would suggest you keep your nasty comments to yourself. It's his business that he and his wife babysit their grandchildren. It seems to me that your tail feathers went up when he mentioned what a fine grandmother his wife is. I'm sure you're a fine grandmother as well. I just find it unnecessary to be so critical of his choice or lifestyle or whatever you want to call it. If it's cultural then it certainly is a lifestyle. And I must tell you, I do respect science, education and most certainly have common sense. Who are you to judge?

 

[GliderPoss]

We have been so lucky in Oz with minimal deaths and excellent health care to boot. I have nothing but praise for our government compared to other countries right now. But as ArkieB1 says:

The very best outcome requires a fine juggling act between economy/people's jobs, metal health, normal lives versus the health risk of the virus.....

This is where we are at now, how to reopen safely and get the economy going without millions living in fear. It's a conundrum and I don't envy PM Scott Morrison in having to solve it! Personally I have downloaded the CovidSafe app and encourage everyone to do so. There are many reasons but mainly it's about the GREATER GOOD for society. People need to get past selfish privacy fears, especially considering how much worse Google or Facebook are. You can easily delete the app at the end of the year (or whenever) we are back on track.

Sending genuine mental hugs to all in other countries particularly UK, US, Spain & Italy who seem to have it worst.

 

[nala]

We have been so lucky in Oz with minimal deaths and excellent health care to boot. I have nothing but praise for our government compared to other countries right now. But as ArkieB1 says:



This is where we are at now, how to reopen safely and get the economy going without millions living in fear. It's a conundrum and I don't envy PM Scott Morrison in having to solve it! Personally I have downloaded the CovidSafe app and encourage everyone to do so. There are many reasons but mainly it's about the GREATER GOOD for society. People need to get past selfish privacy fears, especially considering how much worse Google or Facebook are. You can easily delete the app at the end of the year (or whenever) we are back on track.

Sending genuine mental hugs to all in other countries particularly UK, US, Spain & Italy who seem to have it worst.

Amen!! Please go post this in the Covid surveillance thread!!! Maybe people will embrace it the way they have masks and social distancing
Surveillance during Covid 19 times.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

We have been so lucky in Oz with minimal deaths and excellent health care to boot. I have nothing but praise for our government compared to other countries right now. But as ArkieB1 says:



This is where we are at now, how to reopen safely and get the economy going without millions living in fear. It's a conundrum and I don't envy PM Scott Morrison in having to solve it! Personally I have downloaded the CovidSafe app and encourage everyone to do so. There are many reasons but mainly it's about the GREATER GOOD for society. People need to get past selfish privacy fears, especially considering how much worse Google or Facebook are. You can easily delete the app at the end of the year (or whenever) we are back on track.

Sending genuine mental hugs to all in other countries particularly UK, US, Spain & Italy who seem to have it worst.

ive heard the app isnt working very well ?
but yes ill download it when its up and running here

have you had any young people die of it in 'Oz
here its only been older people despite most cases are in people aged 19 to 29

i think what our part of the world had on our side (despite the ruby princess ) is our geography gave us the gift of time
i personally think our lockdown is much harsher than yours because the powers at be know dam well our health system is so underfunded it would not be able to cope with covid 19
they have really pushed the flu jab this year because most years that overwhelms most hospitals but thankfully so far this year because of lock down NZ has everdently never been so healthy with no flu or even colds
my OH has been sick with eye trouble caused by a lung condition since last year so we were pretty much self isolating anyway
neither of us have had as much as a cold in over a year just by staying home and avoiding people

anyway stay safe Australia, because you seem to be the great hope of our economy's future in the mid term with all this talk about the Transtasmen bubble