Protests To Trump's Anthem Slurs Grow To Nationwide Rebuke

[redwood66]

Not sure I understand that. Elaborate?

Gotta say though, playing the anthem at football games starts way eariier at the state high school level. It certainly did with mine. Along with the socially demanded public obeisance to The Almighty who was invoked over the school loudspeakers at the games. (I can imagine the kerfuffle if someone continously showed up and refused to bow his/her head or stand up for that one. Oiy. Better to just conform, especially in high school where you're SO worried about what others think, right?) Nothing so tasteless as asking for God to give your team a win, but always prefaced with the seemingly extemporaneous yet always the same, verbiage (that I will never be able to get out of my head for the rest of my life): "And Lord, we just......etc, etc," Always "Lord we just". Maybe it's a regional thing, but never could figure that one out. Not long after that, I think schools could no longer allow that, since it was rightly challenged as government preference for a particular religion. And it also falls under the heading of why must we involve religion/anthem at a game of any type?

My farm school in California always did an invocation and national anthem at games. My sons' HS still does where we are in Idaho. People are always welcome to sit it out or participate - their choice as it should be. No one was denigrated for not participating. We had plenty of Jehovah Witnesses in school who did not do the pledge. No biggie.

 

[Matata]

No one was denigrated for not participating. We had plenty of Jehovah Witnesses in school who did not do the pledge. No biggie.

Let's fine tune that a bit...it's no biggie now because the Supreme Court made it unlawful to force participation (in the pledge case because "under God" was added in 1954). History and context are important to remember with these kinds of issues as we're inclined to take these "freedoms" for granted.

 

[redwood66]

Let's fine tune that a bit...it's no biggie now because the Supreme Court made it unlawful to force participation (in the pledge case because "under God" was added in 1954). History and context are important to remember with these kinds of issues as we're inclined to take these "freedoms" for granted.

OK.? Still no big deal to me or any of my family what someone else does or does not do (as long as it is legal). We are long past 1954, which is before I entered this world.

My point was to ksinger and this part especially:

Nothing so tasteless as asking for God to give your team a win, but always prefaced with the seemingly extemporaneous yet always the same, verbiage (that I will never be able to get out of my head for the rest of my life): "And Lord, we just......etc, etc," Always "Lord we just".

 

[MollyMalone]

And unlike Trump, Kaepernick is saying the truth. Because in 2016, again, black men in the US faced the highest risk to be killed by the police. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/08/the-counted-police-killings-2016-young-black-men

It's not only that. E.g.,

* Some years ago, I happened to wake up to hear authoritative voices below my bedroom window, barking "Got ID?", followed by a skeptical, "This is an awfully nice block for you to be walking around." Peering out, I saw 2 (white) NYPD officers confronting my (African American) 65-year-old neighbor. So I charged outside, displaying my Ass't DA's shield (fancy blue enamel and gold, like a detective's badge) in my outstretched hand, announced myself as ADA Molly Malone. By this time, the cops had my neighbor face-down, spread-eagled against the back of another neighbor's car & were frisking him.

"Stop. There is absolutely no need or reason for that, Officers", which prompted one of them to ask me if I knew the man. "Yes, the gentleman and his family live in that house, 2 doors up; they've lived on the block longer than the 10 years we've been here. He's a retired engineer, his wife is a teacher... (pausing for greater effect) and one of their daughters is a reporter for NY1." "Oh, we're sorry, Ms. Malone, we didn't know."​

I commented that I was not the one they should be apologizing to & told the closest officer to give me his memo book. As I took his pen & started to tear out a page, he protested, "You can't do that. Our memo books are supposed to remain intact." "Oh, I'll write a note on the next page explaining that I removed the prior page in order to write down your name and badge number and that of your partner. I'll be calling the Borough Commander in the morning." As they begin to slink off to their patrol car, I told my neighbor that I'd be happy to be a witness for him if he were to file a complaint with the Civilian Complaint Review Board. He quietly responded, "No, no, I won't be doing that. I'm really sorry to have troubled you tonight, Molly, but I really appreciate you doing what you did for me." "Oh, Mr. B., there's no reason for you to feel apologetic! I am furious at those 2 officers, and frankly embarrassed to be even remotely associated with them." We hugged each other good night. (The 2 officers were transferred, for a 3 months' assignment, to one of the NYC precincts farthest from their homes.)​

* After my son and his friends were 17+ (old enough to drive in NYC with no restrictions) high school and college students, they were never stopped by the NYPD if my son and his friend Anthony -- who could have been "poster boys" for the Sons of Ireland & the Sons of Italy -- were in the car's front seats. But if they were riding in the back & their 2 black buddies were in the front seats, they were often stopped, for no reason other than "driving black."​

I know these are relatively minor, bigoted indignities when viewed in isolation; I also know they are but the tip of the iceberg. (And yes, I also know there are many NYPD members who conduct themselves as they should; there are more than a handful I admire and respect greatly.)

 

[redwood66]

It's not only that. E.g.,

* Some years ago, I happened to wake up to hear authoritative voices below my bedroom window, barking "Got ID?", followed by a skeptical, "This is an awfully nice block for you to be walking around." Peering out, I saw 2 (white) NYPD officers confronting my (African American) 65-year-old neighbor. So I charged outside, displaying my Ass't DA's shield (fancy blue enamel and gold, like a detective's badge) in my outstretched hand, announced myself as ADA Molly Malone. By this time, the cops had my neighbor face-down, spread-eagled against the back of another neighbor's car & were frisking him.

"Stop. There is absolutely no need or reason for that, Officers", which prompted one of them to ask me if I knew the man. "Yes, the gentleman and his family live in that house, 2 doors up; they've lived on the block longer than the 10 years we've been here. He's a retired engineer, his wife is a teacher... (pausing for greater effect) and one of their daughters is a reporter for NY1." "Oh, we're sorry, Ms. Malone, we didn't know."​

I commented that I was not the one they should be apologizing to & told the closest officer to give me his memo book. As I took his pen & started to tear out a page, he protested, "You can't do that. Our memo books are supposed to remain intact." "Oh, I'll write a note on the next page explaining that I removed the prior page in order to write down your name and badge number and that of your partner. I'll be calling the Borough Commander in the morning." As they begin to slink off to their patrol car, I told my neighbor that I'd be happy to be a witness for him if he were to file a complaint with the Civilian Complaint Review Board. He quietly responded, "No, no, I won't be doing that. I'm really sorry to have troubled you tonight, Molly, but I really appreciate you doing what you did for me." "Oh, Mr. B., there's no reason for you to feel apologetic! I am furious at those 2 officers, and frankly embarrassed to be even remotely associated with them." We hugged each other good night. (The 2 officers were transferred, for a 3 months' assignment, to one of the NYC precincts farthest from their homes.)​

* After my son and his friends were 17+ (old enough to drive in NYC with no restrictions) high school and college students, they were never stopped by the NYPD if my son and his friend Anthony -- who could have been "poster boys" for the Sons of Ireland & the Sons of Italy -- were in the car's front seats. But if they were riding in the back & their 2 black buddies were in the front seats, they were often stopped, for no reason other than "driving black."​

I know these are relatively minor, bigoted indignities when viewed in isolation; I also know they are but the tip of the iceberg. (And yes, I also know there are many NYPD members who conduct themselves as they should; there are more than a handful I admire and respect greatly.)

I am glad you did what you did Molly. All badge heavy cops should be rooted out and/or disciplined because it is the way change is made.

 

[Karl_K]

its all bread and circuses anyway,,,,
Here is an idea, turn the tv off, go play with a football.

 

[AGBF]

After my son and his friends were...old enough to drive in NYC with no restrictions...

...​

they were never stopped by the NYPD if my son and his friend Anthony -- who could have been "poster boys" for the Sons of Ireland & the Sons of Italy -- were in the car's front seats. But if they were riding in the back & their 2 black buddies were in the front seats, they were often stopped, for no reason other than "driving black."​

Your being able to intervene for your neighbor was lucky, Molly. I do not mean to detract from your virtue, but what strikes me about the story is what you wanted wanted to have strike us: the vulnerability of black and brown people to racism of people in authority, especially the police. And people with white skin privilege do not realize what it is like to be black (or brown). They have never experienced being followed around a store by suspicious store owners because of the color of their skin or being treated shabbily even when they were well dressed. They cannot fathom what it is like to be stopped for driving while black. They do not believe it actually happens. Thank you for your testimony.

Deb

 

[kenny]

My SO is of Mexican descent and I'm a white guy.
We were out and about and noticed a new high end jewelry store we wanted to check out.
We entered separately; I went first and he followed 5 minutes later after he finished some business on his phone.

I was greeted with a smile and a warm greeting.
He was literally confronted at the entrance, "Can I help you?" in a harsh voice asked the husband of the woman who greeted me.

We let it slide.
But yeah, I'm well aware of white privilege.

 

[Matata]

@molly Malone, your story brings up childhood memories. As a caucasion growing up in a mixed black/white ghetto in the late 1950s, inter-racial relationships were difficult. My family was close friends with a black family living 2 doors down from us. They had two children -- a girl my age and a son 6 yrs older. One night I begged to tag along along with the son when he drove to a friend's house to return something. Several times during the drive, I had to hide on the floorboard to keep the son safe from being dragged out of the car and beaten by blacks for consorting with white people. Had we been driving through a white neighborhood, I'm positive the son would be dead. Can you imagine what it would have looked like to whites seeing a young white girl in the front seat of a car with a teenage black man? He was, ultimately, beaten by blacks for being friends with us and beaten by whites for being friends with us. I remember the adults sitting around the kitchen table discussing what they should do and deciding that they wouldn't let anyone tell them who they could and could not be friends with. Things got more heated, literally and figuratively, during the race riots of the 60's.

 

[Arkteia]

It's not only that. E.g.,

* Some years ago, I happened to wake up to hear authoritative voices below my bedroom window, barking "Got ID?", followed by a skeptical, "This is an awfully nice block for you to be walking around." Peering out, I saw 2 (white) NYPD officers confronting my (African American) 65-year-old neighbor. So I charged outside, displaying my Ass't DA's shield (fancy blue enamel and gold, like a detective's badge) in my outstretched hand, announced myself as ADA Molly Malone. By this time, the cops had my neighbor face-down, spread-eagled against the back of another neighbor's car & were frisking him.

"Stop. There is absolutely no need or reason for that, Officers", which prompted one of them to ask me if I knew the man. "Yes, the gentleman and his family live in that house, 2 doors up; they've lived on the block longer than the 10 years we've been here. He's a retired engineer, his wife is a teacher... (pausing for greater effect) and one of their daughters is a reporter for NY1." "Oh, we're sorry, Ms. Malone, we didn't know."​

I commented that I was not the one they should be apologizing to & told the closest officer to give me his memo book. As I took his pen & started to tear out a page, he protested, "You can't do that. Our memo books are supposed to remain intact." "Oh, I'll write a note on the next page explaining that I removed the prior page in order to write down your name and badge number and that of your partner. I'll be calling the Borough Commander in the morning." As they begin to slink off to their patrol car, I told my neighbor that I'd be happy to be a witness for him if he were to file a complaint with the Civilian Complaint Review Board. He quietly responded, "No, no, I won't be doing that. I'm really sorry to have troubled you tonight, Molly, but I really appreciate you doing what you did for me." "Oh, Mr. B., there's no reason for you to feel apologetic! I am furious at those 2 officers, and frankly embarrassed to be even remotely associated with them." We hugged each other good night. (The 2 officers were transferred, for a 3 months' assignment, to one of the NYC precincts farthest from their homes.)​

* After my son and his friends were 17+ (old enough to drive in NYC with no restrictions) high school and college students, they were never stopped by the NYPD if my son and his friend Anthony -- who could have been "poster boys" for the Sons of Ireland & the Sons of Italy -- were in the car's front seats. But if they were riding in the back & their 2 black buddies were in the front seats, they were often stopped, for no reason other than "driving black."​

I know these are relatively minor, bigoted indignities when viewed in isolation; I also know they are but the tip of the iceberg. (And yes, I also know there are many NYPD members who conduct themselves as they should; there are more than a handful I admire and respect greatly.)

Thanks for sharing it, Molly. Your neighbor, a retired engineer in NYC, was very lucky to have you for the neighbor.

I think that the sole fact that a person of color, looking into the eyes of a newly met caucasian, has to answer for himself the question, "is this person a racist?", is shameful and unbelievably saddening.

So i have to remind myself that open segregation in the South stopped about 50 years ago. That Loving vs Virginia case, invalidating the laws prohibiting racial segregation in marriages, was decided on exactly 50 years ago.

The time of our grandparents and parents.

There is absolutely no reason for anyone to be so hard on Kaepernick, a sincere person with strong sense of social justice.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Not only that, but he has lost and still don't have a job likely because of his protest. So, no, it's not that easy.

Not true...He doesn't have a job b/c he didn't play well last yr.

 

[Dancing Fire]

But yeah, I'm well aware of white privilege.

Better to turn "yellow"....

 

[partgypsy]

http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/i-...tm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing

 

[MollyMalone]

Not only that, but he has lost and still don't have a job likely because of his protest. So, no, it's not that easy.

Not true...He doesn't have a job b/c he didn't play well last yr.

Oh puhleeze. Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers -- who know a helluva lot more about pro football than you do -- are among those who think Colin Kaepernick should be playing:
http://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2...k-i-think-he-should-be-on-a-roster-right-now/
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...hope-he-gets-a-shot-to-play-in-the-nfl-again/
Also, e.g.,
https://www.sbnation.com/2017/8/14/16058454/colin-kaepernick-film-breakdown-free-agency
http://www.complex.com/sports/2017/08/kaepernick-is-better-than-most-quarterbacks/

 

[Arkteia]

http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/i-...tm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing

Is anyone surprised at the timing of Internet discussions about Kaepernick? His protests were in 2016, and at that time, there was far fewer outcries.

Is this a clever media move by the present in-powers to distract our attention from the fact that two major states have been beaten by hurricanes, a severe fire season hit Montana, and currently, there are thousands of people in Puerto-Rico needing evacuation - and our government is either unwilling to do anything, or is simply impotent to organize a meaningful rescue campaign?

I think, the latter. We have enough military ships that could help with evacuation and a Commander-in-Chief who can only tweet.

 

[redwood66]

CK and others have all their right to free speech and I would never tell them they could not do what they are doing. That is up to the NFL and the team owners. But as was said in regard to the free speech of others recently, you have to be prepared for the consequences of that speech. I doubt most of those who are complaining about the people who think the kneeling is disrespectful are actually football fans. But many of the ones who think it is disrespectful are football fans and that will manifest itself in the money loss to the NFL. We surely don't watch or spend $ on it anymore and I know many other avid fans who have said the same thing.

 

[kenny]

I don't give a crap about football or any sport.
And WTF does it any of this have to to with patriotism?

Stoopid!
Much ado about nothing.

 

[telephone89]

Two things (in this thread and seen elsewhere regarding this) make me sick.
1) People bitching about the peaceful protest of someone trying to bring awareness about cops murdering blacks but saying FUCK ALL about god damn nazis swinging torches around. Disgusting.
2) People trying to make the peaceful protest of someone trying to bring awareness about cops murdering blacks all about them - I dont give a big ole FLYING F if you think its disrespectful. ITS NOT ABOUT YOU. Why cant people get this through their heads?

 

[ABKIS]

Is anyone surprised at the timing of Internet discussions about Kaepernick? His protests were in 2016, and at that time, there was far fewer outcries.

Is this a clever media move by the present in-powers to distract our attention from the fact that two major states have been beaten by hurricanes, a severe fire season hit Montana, and currently, there are thousands of people in Puerto-Rico needing evacuation - and our government is either unwilling to do anything, or is simply impotent to organize a meaningful rescue campaign?

I think, the latter. We have enough military ships that could help with evacuation and a Commander-in-Chief who can only tweet.

Agreed. This protest is kind of old news to me. I've seen him take a knee since last year. It went around in the news for a bit but nothing major was said. We now have all this devastation and instead of addressing that, instead of doing his actual JOB, Trump's busy distracting the masses with this bull.

Trump didn't give a sh*t when Kaepernick first started taking a knee, why does he give a sh*t now?? I think it's because it's easier for him to distract then to acknowledge that he's doing a piss poor job.

 

[ABKIS]

Two things (in this thread and seen elsewhere regarding this) make me sick.
1) People bitching about the peaceful protest of someone trying to bring awareness about cops murdering blacks but saying FUCK ALL about god damn nazis swinging torches around. Disgusting.
2) People trying to make the peaceful protest of someone trying to bring awareness about cops murdering blacks all about them - I dont give a big ole FLYING F if you think its disrespectful. ITS NOT ABOUT YOU. Why cant people get this through their heads?

Here, here!!

Where was Trump when white racists were marching in the street? But have a black man take a knee during the national anthem and he looses his mind. What a joke.

 

[Bluegemz]

Here, here!!

Where was Trump when white racists were marching in the street? But have a black man take a knee during the national anthem and he looses his mind. What a joke.

Exactly ! Pathetic, but extremely predictable too. He's creating distractions to cover the poor job he's doing, and as part of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, is finding a target for his narcissistic rage.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Oh puhleeze. Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers -- who know a helluva lot more about pro football than you do -- are among those who think Colin Kaepernick should be playing:

Then Brady and Rodgers should ask their coaches to hire Kaepernick as their backup.

Remember dog killer Michael Vick?. He got a job shortly after he was released prison in 2009. My point is if NFL owners/coaches think that Kaepernick can still play then he will be hired in the future.

 

[Arkteia]

Then Brady and Rodgers should ask their coaches to hire Kaepernick as their backup.

Remember dog killer Michael Vick?. He got a job shortly after he was released prison in 2009. My point is if NFL owners/coaches think that Kaepernick can still play then he will be hired in the future.

Michael Vick was probably a very good football player. However - specifically because I tracked his story - the fact that the Eagles, and the NFL, allowed him to play after jail, means that according to their expectations, in the eyes of the football fans, his score on the field would be much more important than the amount of the pit bulls abused on his property. That the games with him on the team would not be boycotted.

It has to do with the views of the society on dog fighting. Dog fighting is illegal, yet still thriving in rural areas. And the same people who do not openly support Michael Vick, quietly go to dog fights organized undercover in barns or wherever.

(In a way, it is a dichotomy between official and unofficial views on the problem, very similar to "grab the pu..y" tape. Officially, it is very bad, misogynous, abusive, and no one dares to support it. Unofficially, half of the country doesn't think much of it or might envy a rich and famous guy who can afford to get away with it - and Trump gets elected. The only person who is punished is Billy Bush because it is not moral to listen to such stories).

But because dog fighting is illegal, and because dog abuse is bad, Michael Vick lost all endorsements, but one. Star or not, Michael Vick was not considered a good role model by the companies.

Also, what also shocked me were articles like, "Michael Vick is a good Christian" published in some fundamentalist magazines. I would think that the public opinion was certainly primed before allowing Vick to return to big sport.

 

[Kbell]

Two things (in this thread and seen elsewhere regarding this) make me sick.
1) People bitching about the peaceful protest of someone trying to bring awareness about cops murdering blacks but saying FUCK ALL about god damn nazis swinging torches around. Disgusting.
2) People trying to make the peaceful protest of someone trying to bring awareness about cops murdering blacks all about them - I dont give a big ole FLYING F if you think its disrespectful. ITS NOT ABOUT YOU. Why cant people get this through their heads?

As one of the obvious few football fans in
this thread who's been a fan & watched my favorite sport for decades... I respectfully disagree. It absolutely is also about us. We're the ones funding them after all so I think our opinions count just as much as yours. I for one have tuned out all NFL games except the Pats in my home & I'll tune in after kickoff. I used to watch all day Sunday pretty much, Monday night, Thurs night. I've gone to countless games, spent a small fortune on merchandise but not anymore. Hopefully once their ratings go down they'll adjust. Boston sports teams just got together to fight racism which I applaud. Again, insulting 1/2 your fan base (justified or not) is not smart business. I'll spend my time & $ how I see fit. My friends who served & are all upset - that's what upsets me whether anyone else thinks they're justified or not - they are entitled to their feelings & opinions too. And don't confuse boycotting the NFL with being racist, they are far from it.

 

[teddyted]

When you're more upset about feeling disrespected than black children getting murdered, i think bigger things than football are on the table. You're making it about a game. You're missing the picture and seem ignorant to the message.

 

[MollyMalone]

As one of the obvious few football fans in
this thread who's been a fan & watched my favorite sport for decades... I respectfully disagree. It absolutely is also about us. We're the ones funding them after all so I think our opinions count just as much as yours. * * *

Well, don't assume that someone here is not a fan of the sport because they don't share your view that kneeling warrants (crude) denunciation and calls for boycotts by the President. The same man who BTW, in reminiscing minutes earlier about his offer to endorse Senator Strange, said he shouldn't have offered because

The last thing I want to do is be involved in a primary, OK? I could be sitting home right now getting to watch some of the games tomorrow, getting ready, right? ​

https://www.c-span.org/video/?434480-1/president-trump-campaigns-alabama-senator-luther-strange
@20:00 - 20.50.

 

[ksinger]

Because this man says it much more eloquently than I can...

https://johnpavlovitz.com/2017/09/26/protests-arent-flag-anthem-military-know/

“They’re disrespecting the flag!”
“They’re disrespecting the Anthem!”
“They’re disrespecting the Military!”

These have been the constant refrains from many people over the past week (most of them white) in response to NFL players locking arms or taking a knee or placing a fist in the air during the National Anthem: that such things represent an attack on this country, on its servicemen and women—on America itself.

Never mind that those actually protesting have denied such things over and over and over again, both before and after every game. Such details are of little importance, especially when those details would effectively defuse any histrionics from the righteously indignant critics, and force them to actually confront the very real ugliness at hand.

This purposeful missing of the point isn’t surprising in Donald Trump’s America, since gaslighting and deflecting and feigning ignorance are his modus operandi—tactics all of which have been on display in reckless, incendiary press statements; nationalist-baiting Tweets; and “I never said anything about race” post game stupidity.

In saying that these athletes are protesting the flag or the Military or the Anthem—you are choosing to listen to your bias and not their actual words. You’re simply ignoring their repeated statements, in order to perpetuate the narrative you need to oppose them without feeling any responsibility to wrestle with the difficult issues they raise.

By creating a black and white “Traitorous NFL Player vs. America” storyline, you’re able to completely ignore the stated and repeated impetus behind Kaepernick’s initial protest (and every one that’s followed): the plea for people of color to be treated with equity by law enforcement, the criminal justice system, and our government. When the President labels these men “sons of bitches” who should be terminated—he’s only proving why their protests are valid and necessary to begin with.

The idea that there was a “better way” to do these demonstrations is a diversion and unhelpful, as there are a million ways to be an activist. Kaepernick originally leveraged his platform, influence, and visibility to peacefully declare that black lives were valuable and should be part of whatever “making America great” looks like. It’s really that simple. The hysterical response to it all by largely white Americans, only underscores precisely why Kaepernick protested in the first place, the deeply embedded racism this country is afflicted with, and why many white people will do almost anything to avoid dealing with it. The “better way” they were looking for from these players, is one out of the spotlight, away from their entertainment—and somewhere they didn’t have to look at it or deal with it.

A piece of cloth is not sacred, and a song (especially one with a suspect genesis) is not sacred. They are symbols of a freedom that those serving our country have died to give all of us and to protect for all of us. That freedom is supposed to be available to every human being who calls this country home—because they, not the flag or the anthem, are sacred. They alone are worthy of reverence and honor and respect. And the simple, brutal truth—is that since America’s inception, people of color have not received anything close to such equity. They’ve been the ones who have been “disrespected” (and this is being extremely kind).

That’s why Colin Kaepernick took a knee.
It’s why players locked arms.
It’s why they raised their fists in the air.
They have said as much without hesitation or ambiguity.
They done these things, not because they hate this country—but because they want everyone here to have the liberty the flag points to and the song suggests.

For anyone to try put words in their mouths or assign to them motives that they’ve clearly denied, or to try and shame and silence them because this all makes them uncomfortable is the very definition of privilege. It’s exactly the kind of marginalizing and disregard that made these protests necessary in the first place. To come to the defense of a piece of cloth or a song, and not to the people beneath these protests is willful sin.

White friends, you don’t get to decide what patriotism looks like for people of color. That’s why it’s called freedom. The fact that many of you don’t seem to understand this; that you feel entitled to police them and to force them into a expression that you sanction, shows why these protests are necessary.

This is not about an attack on a flag or an anthem or on those who’ve served this country.

You can try and make it about those things—but that really just makes it about you , what you’re willing to talk about and what you don’t want to be inconvenienced with.

I think that’s the point these players are making: America is about more than you—or at least it’s supposed to be.

 

[Dee*Jay]

As one of the obvious few football fans in
this thread who's been a fan & watched my favorite sport for decades... I respectfully disagree. It absolutely is also about us. We're the ones funding them after all so I think our opinions count just as much as yours. I for one have tuned out all NFL games except the Pats in my home & I'll tune in after kickoff. I used to watch all day Sunday pretty much, Monday night, Thurs night. I've gone to countless games, spent a small fortune on merchandise but not anymore. Hopefully once their ratings go down they'll adjust. Boston sports teams just got together to fight racism which I applaud. Again, insulting 1/2 your fan base (justified or not) is not smart business. I'll spend my time & $ how I see fit. My friends who served & are all upset - that's what upsets me whether anyone else thinks they're justified or not - they are entitled to their feelings & opinions too. And don't confuse boycotting the NFL with being racist, they are far from it.

Fellow football fan here!

More specifically, a fan who grew up in Pittsburgh in the 70s, so a STEELERS fan. (And if THAT ain't the biggest can of worms from last weekend... )

As for insulting half the fan base who support you, how 'bout insulting at one point or another a plethora of the groups of people who make up the country you (allegedly) serve?

Frankly, if people what to lie down on the field and make snow angels in support of their cause -- whatever it might be -- I'm all for it. If twitter can be a media forum on which to make a cause the cameras of a sports broadcast are just as appropriate. At least women aren't being harangued for their face lifts, long serving senators aren't being chided for having been captured and tortured, and (other) unstable dictators aren't being provoked toward nuclear war with this silent protest.

 

[Bluegemz]

Because this man says it much more eloquently than I can...

https://johnpavlovitz.com/2017/09/26/protests-arent-flag-anthem-military-know/

“They’re disrespecting the flag!”
“They’re disrespecting the Anthem!”
“They’re disrespecting the Military!”

These have been the constant refrains from many people over the past week (most of them white) in response to NFL players locking arms or taking a knee or placing a fist in the air during the National Anthem: that such things represent an attack on this country, on its servicemen and women—on America itself.

Never mind that those actually protesting have denied such things over and over and over again, both before and after every game. Such details are of little importance, especially when those details would effectively defuse any histrionics from the righteously indignant critics, and force them to actually confront the very real ugliness at hand.

This purposeful missing of the point isn’t surprising in Donald Trump’s America, since gaslighting and deflecting and feigning ignorance are his modus operandi—tactics all of which have been on display in reckless, incendiary press statements; nationalist-baiting Tweets; and “I never said anything about race” post game stupidity.

In saying that these athletes are protesting the flag or the Military or the Anthem—you are choosing to listen to your bias and not their actual words. You’re simply ignoring their repeated statements, in order to perpetuate the narrative you need to oppose them without feeling any responsibility to wrestle with the difficult issues they raise.

By creating a black and white “Traitorous NFL Player vs. America” storyline, you’re able to completely ignore the stated and repeated impetus behind Kaepernick’s initial protest (and every one that’s followed): the plea for people of color to be treated with equity by law enforcement, the criminal justice system, and our government. When the President labels these men “sons of bitches” who should be terminated—he’s only proving why their protests are valid and necessary to begin with.

The idea that there was a “better way” to do these demonstrations is a diversion and unhelpful, as there are a million ways to be an activist. Kaepernick originally leveraged his platform, influence, and visibility to peacefully declare that black lives were valuable and should be part of whatever “making America great” looks like. It’s really that simple. The hysterical response to it all by largely white Americans, only underscores precisely why Kaepernick protested in the first place, the deeply embedded racism this country is afflicted with, and why many white people will do almost anything to avoid dealing with it. The “better way” they were looking for from these players, is one out of the spotlight, away from their entertainment—and somewhere they didn’t have to look at it or deal with it.

A piece of cloth is not sacred, and a song (especially one with a suspect genesis) is not sacred. They are symbols of a freedom that those serving our country have died to give all of us and to protect for all of us. That freedom is supposed to be available to every human being who calls this country home—because they, not the flag or the anthem, are sacred. They alone are worthy of reverence and honor and respect. And the simple, brutal truth—is that since America’s inception, people of color have not received anything close to such equity. They’ve been the ones who have been “disrespected” (and this is being extremely kind).

That’s why Colin Kaepernick took a knee.
It’s why players locked arms.
It’s why they raised their fists in the air.
They have said as much without hesitation or ambiguity.
They done these things, not because they hate this country—but because they want everyone here to have the liberty the flag points to and the song suggests.

For anyone to try put words in their mouths or assign to them motives that they’ve clearly denied, or to try and shame and silence them because this all makes them uncomfortable is the very definition of privilege. It’s exactly the kind of marginalizing and disregard that made these protests necessary in the first place. To come to the defense of a piece of cloth or a song, and not to the people beneath these protests is willful sin.

White friends, you don’t get to decide what patriotism looks like for people of color. That’s why it’s called freedom. The fact that many of you don’t seem to understand this; that you feel entitled to police them and to force them into a expression that you sanction, shows why these protests are necessary.

This is not about an attack on a flag or an anthem or on those who’ve served this country.

You can try and make it about those things—but that really just makes it about you , what you’re willing to talk about and what you don’t want to be inconvenienced with.

I think that’s the point these players are making: America is about more than you—or at least it’s supposed to be.

Ksinger, this is so well said! Bravo. I couldn't agree more!

 

[Tekate]

That is your right. I am a football fan, a Jets fan in NE, tough. I have bought myself and my sons new shirts! not a Pat fan at all after the Brady fiasco. I applaud any peaceful way to fight racism. My brother who served supports the players, two of my best buds from high school who served in Viet Nam seeing great (biggly ) action are on the forefront in their respective NY towns supporting the the players who take a knee.

After spending time in Texas - 17 years - and hearing from people: "I'm Texan first" (which I found very very insulting to our country) and hearing "leave our guns alone" ad infinitum, I watched an hour long procession of a funeral of a cop who was killed by a drug crazed computer programmer at the Walmart up the street from my job, vets from my job outside standing at attention saluting as though this cop doing his job was a hero. The FLAG! the flag everywhere, we are talking BIGLY flags, I started to feel (and so did my hubster) that the right had absconded with my flag, the flag has become a weapon of the right. I am patriotic, but I don't feel a police officer who was killed by a drug crazed idiot deserves a funeral fit for a national hero. I just don't. We have elevated cops and firefighters to a superior status, super hero, when in fact they are doing their job. When my husband and I walk around our subdivision or just about anywhere, we see a huge flag and we say - in unison - Trump voter. The flag is a symbol. The black players do not feel a part of that symbolism, they did emigrate here, their forebears (most of them) were brought here against their will, and to this day they are not treated equally. So I'm sorry you and your friends (vets etc) don't like how the black players feel, but I would be my whole retirement savings on this: If you were black you would feel similar.

I'd like to see a more unified America, I'd really like to see a land of opportunity for all, but it's not going to happen in my life.

I'm just glad my father (11 battlestars WWII) isn't alive to see the hate from the right out in full force in America, the one he fought for - kamikaze pilots coming at him. Holding one of his hometown friends in his arms as he died.. that is what a hero is.

As one of the obvious few football fans in
this thread who's been a fan & watched my favorite sport for decades... I respectfully disagree. It absolutely is also about us. We're the ones funding them after all so I think our opinions count just as much as yours. I for one have tuned out all NFL games except the Pats in my home & I'll tune in after kickoff. I used to watch all day Sunday pretty much, Monday night, Thurs night. I've gone to countless games, spent a small fortune on merchandise but not anymore. Hopefully once their ratings go down they'll adjust. Boston sports teams just got together to fight racism which I applaud. Again, insulting 1/2 your fan base (justified or not) is not smart business. I'll spend my time & $ how I see fit. My friends who served & are all upset - that's what upsets me whether anyone else thinks they're justified or not - they are entitled to their feelings & opinions too. And don't confuse boycotting the NFL with being racist, they are far from it.