Protests To Trump's Anthem Slurs Grow To Nationwide Rebuke

[t-c]

Hmmm... I don't expect any symbolic gesture of protest (especially one as low-key as kneeling on the sidelines of a field before the game begins) to promptly effectuate change. Nor I do consider a protest synonymous with "good works."

In any event, between October 2016 and June 2017, Colin Kaepernick gave $900,000 to, e.g., Meals on Wheels America; famine relief in Turkey; Mothers Against Police Brutality for headstones and family support programs; crime victims' & youth groups; a fledgling health clinic on the Standing Rock Indian Reservation; urban farming & better nutrition education plus cooking classes in Minneapolis; a nonprofit in Brooklyn that assists black military veterans with housing and employment; 100 Suits for 100 Men (like Dress for Success, but serving recently released inmates); NYC's Coalition for the Homeless.

A sum 90x greater that Trump's lone gift of $5000 - 9,999 (to the NYC Police Athletic League) over the course of the 7+ years between January 1, 2009, when Trump stopped paying money into his private foundation & late May 2016, when he finally made good on his declaration in January that he was giving $1 million of his own money to veterans groups.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...b0774c1eaa5_story.html?utm_term=.4115abf69175
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...erans-group/?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.ebce5a1d54a9

Not only that, but he has lost and still don't have a job likely because of his protest. So, no, it's not that easy.

 

[AGBF]

And why IS the national anthem played at a freaking football game anyway? What's up with that?
There's the solution to this kerfuffle - stop making football a venue for enforced allegiance to country by dropping the anthem. Of course that would massively offend the same crowd, because how could we possibly do football without the demand for public displays of love of country before each game?

Writing this is far more radical than anything any NFL player did! Post it as a comment following one of "The New York Times" columns about the controversy! People reading there will appreciate it.

Deb

 

[OreoRosies86]

 

[E B]

@Elliot86 I wish I could like that a hundred times.

 

[redwood66]

Hmmm... I don't expect any symbolic gesture of protest (especially one as low-key as kneeling on the sidelines of a field before the game begins) to promptly effectuate change. Nor I do consider a protest synonymous with "good works."

Molly I was referring to the bible quote Reid used in his writing, his reference to that passage indicates he deems the kneeling as a work. I realize that many, including Kaepernik, donate time and money to good causes which is an excellent thing. But I will not herald him or Reid as heroes for something I think is disrespectful. Like I said everyone's opinion of the respect to anthem and the flag is different.

I have been a 49er fan for decades and he really is not a great QB.

 

[Tekate]

Good because I don't either!

I do not need to speak in PC since I am a minority in this country.

 

[Tekate]

I suppose, but we had Reagan, and many other conservative presidents. No I don't think it would be easy for a black conservative to win the presidency.. Obama wasn't elected by conservatives and Trump only won because of the electoral college. I think a better candidate either black or white will win next election, could be a conservative that isn't insane, a democrat guy or gal.. I really don't know.

You know I'm right but you just don't wanna admit it...

 

[plad25]

I understand the cause that originally led to players taking a knee & protesting.
I have also personally spoken to many Veterans & fellow football fans regarding the issue.
Most, not all, that I have spoken with see it as disrespectful. You CAN bring attention to your cause without appearing disrespectful to another group. Some of your team kneeling and some standing is NOT unity. It is NOT solidarity. And Leaving a sole Veteran player to stand alone during the National anthem while you cower in the locker room like a bunch of pansies is an utter disgrace! Nice teamwork. Way to stand by your fellow man who made the sacrifice most other players wouldn't dream of! The entire thing is disgusting to me. Why not spend the millions you are overpaid to help your cause instead of basically giving a big F U to 1/2 your fans? I tune in to watch football... not to have your political agenda forced upon me. I didn't like the Steelers before this (as most Pats fans don't) but now they've pissed of many of their own fans! Way to go.

While on the field you are being paid a salary like my company pays me. My freedom of speech stops at the door. Would I love to tell some of my coworkers to go F themselves daily? Sure! Who wouldn't? But most normal people know there are consequences to "exercising your free speech" in the workplace & they refrain and act respectful to all. So the teams could manage this better. But it's football and full of players full of themselves & I'm so sick of it - it makes me want to stop watching. I know plenty of others who feel the same and a few who don't give a ^&%*&.

Instead of unifying people when they could, they are doing exactly the opposite.
But the NFL has never come across as a very "smart" organization so I'm not surprised.

To correct the above post- Villanueva discussed at length the situation from Sunday's game. He never intended to stand by himself- he meant to look at the flag and go back to where the team was standing. Villanueva himself said he is not disrespected when others take a knee nor does that mean those taking a knee are being disrespectful. He said, "But I take no offense, I don't think veterans at the end of the day take offense, they actually signed up and fought so that somebody could take a knee and protest peacefully for whatever it is their hearts desire."

You can read his full transcript here and is a good perspective from both a Veteran and NFL player: http://www.espn.com/blog/pittsburgh...ejandro-villanueva-on-steelers-pregame-ordeal

Not surprising the Patriots fan got that wrong. ( just kidding!)

 

[whitewave]

This has been flying over my Facebook feed now. I hate to trigger everyone, but if he runs again he will will again. My prediction.

 

[Dee*Jay]

Speaking of hate, I saw this the other day and it was a much needed reminder (to me) about my feelings for Chump.

 

[Dancing Fire]

He should listen to what is coming out of his big mouth...

 

[AGBF]

whitewave posted a warning that Trump would win again if he ran again. That certainly may be true, but it is by no means a given.

Everyone should remember that Trump was not all that popular. He did not win the popular vote. It was so stunning to see the phenomenon of his winning the election that everyone has become awestricken by it and is now acting as if he has some magic. All he had was the electoral college.

The other day Monnie wrote in another thread that he won because Hillary was not f*ckable (and Trump had been when he was younger). Baloney. Trump didn't win more of the votes of more people, more actual humans who f*ck. Hillary won the popular vote, so she won the votes of more humans who f*ck. And thank heavens, too, because if one believes in evolution, think what the majority of people in the US picking Donald Trump over Hillary would mean about natural selection and the the fate of the species.

Sometimes people elect a leader because they want their country to be the better for it and they are not idiots. Sometimes they are looking for qualities that lead to the survival of the species. I don't know if Golda Meir would have been considered f*ckable at the age she became the Israeli Prime Minister, but she was chosen to be Prime Minister by the Israeli people because she was a sound choice as they faced war and hoped to survive.

 

[E B]

This has been flying over my Facebook feed now. I hate to trigger everyone, but if he runs again he will will again. My prediction.

Perhaps, but we've seen how bumpy his supposed 'honeymoon period' has been and with thousands upon thousands literally dying without water in Puerto Rico and aid moving at a glacial pace (and Trump's stupidly public comments about the Jones Act), I believe he'll make several more YUGE (and possibly devastating) missteps before then. Russia may be a big one. But, there will always be those people who will dig their heels in because they'd much rather accept the massive flaws that they themselves championed against (in Hillary, Obama, Satan) than admit that they were wrong about him.

I do hope that by then, the Democratic party has stopped the idiotic infighting and puts up a candidate that makes Trump look like the ambulatory meatsack () he is. There are many 'rising stars' and other good 'moderate liberal' congresspeople to choose from.

 

[ABKIS]

Btw I agree with trump that turning off football in protest of them disrespecting the anthem and the flag and all the veterans who have died for their freedom to get paid for playing a game is a good thing to do. I know many veterans who do feel disrespected by it.

I am just seeing this post now so someone may have already said this. But just in case - Karl please see below:

This is Trump (deliberately?) not understanding: Colin Kaepernick knelt during the national anthem to protest police brutality against African Americans. A few other players did the same, both as a protest and as support for Kaepernick. Neither the anthem nor flag is directly connected to the racism Kaepernick was protesting; it was just a good time for him to do so -- when he would be on camera -- so he could use his platform as a televised athlete to highlight the issue.

 

[Karl_K]

I am just seeing this post now so someone may have already said this. But just in case - Karl please see below:

Don't know what that has to do with how I feel about it.
Or how veteran friends feel about it.
It does not matter why he is doing it, it is disrespectful in my opinion.

 

[ABKIS]

I also know "they" don't see it as "disrespecting the flag"; however, if others see it as disrespectful, and that's many many others like maybe 1/2 your fan base, why not do it a different way? Why continue to insist your way is the only & best way? And the NFL as you say is allowing it & that is whom my criticism is against: Them as an organization for promoting division instead of unity.

Why should "they" change the way they've chosen to protest? In my opinion, it's not being done to appease their fans. It's being done because it's viewed as the right thing to do in their mind.

Why can't those who see this as a sign of "disrespect" when it has absolutely nothing to do with the flag or national anthem itself just re-frame their own views instead? Just pointing out that what you're saying could easily be flipped around in the other direction.

Let people protest however they see fit. You (not you personally but the collective you) don't need to like it.

 

[ABKIS]

Don't know what that has to do with how I feel about it.
Or how veteran friends feel about it.
It does not matter why he is doing it, it is disrespectful in my opinion.

The point was that it's not about the flag. It's not about the National Anthem. It goes well beyond that.

You're welcome to your opinion. Just like he's welcome to protest how he sees fit.

In my opinion, it's not disrespectful. If you cannot see the true reason why Kapernick took a knee by this point in time, there's no point in continuing the conversation. I admire him for risking his livelihood to make a point.

 

[ABKIS]

I see this as a "test" of our democracy. Having professional athletes kneel during the national anthem, in protest of racial discrimination, is a pretty "soft" test of our democracy. They are not "scary" or yelling or making threats, anything, and what they are protested is pretty well documented and disturbing problem in our society. So having a president act like a dictator in this case, is a very troubling wake up call for us as a democracy.
I personally do not believe it is done in an offensive manner. I really cannot think of a less offensive way to protest. This has nothing to do with veterans or "respecting the flag". In fact I am offended that Trump is speaking on behalf of all veterans, including my grandfather who served in WWII who certainly would not have agreed with Trump. My grandfather believed you are not patriotic because you salute or stand for the US Flag. The US Flag is a symbol. You are patriotic, when your actions reflect our patriotic ideals of free speech, tolerance, acceptance, and inclusion. If you stand for the flag but don't put in action what the ideals the flag actually stands for, that is a false and hollow patriotism.
(From Facebook)

"So with all of this drama with the NFL and the players kneeling for the national anthem let’s put this into perspective. Why do people kneel for anything?

A man kneels before the woman he wants to marry to show respect and be at her mercy for the question he is about to ask.
Christians kneel when praying to show respect and be at the mercy of God.
In many cultures civilians kneel before a their leader to show respect and to be at the mercy of their ruler.
So maybe take a step back and see what these men are doing. They are kneeling respectfully and are at the mercy of our nation to make changes for a cause that needs to be addressed. They have the opportunity to draw attention to a cause that many people are affected by and they are doing so respectfully!!!

If they turned their back or sat on the bench during the anthem now that would be disrespectful. Instead they are kneeling to the mercy of our nation begging for something to change!"
Ashi Baldwin

Gypsy. Words cannot express how much I want to hug you right now for this post. Perfect, just perfect!!!!

 

[Matata]

That sack of sh!t Davis is a government employee funded by tax payers who have no choice about paying her while she stumped for god during work hours and refused to do her job. I hope the NFL, NBA and all other sports groups choose to stop playing the anthem and substitute something catchier instead, like this

 

[E B]

The point was that it's not about the flag. It's not about the National Anthem. It goes well beyond that.

You're welcome to your opinion. Just like he's welcome to protest how he sees fit.

In my opinion, it's not disrespectful. If you cannot see the true reason why Kapernick took a knee by this point in time, there's no point in continuing the conversation. I admire him for risking his livelihood to make a point.

I think the whole "I don't care what it actually means, this is how it makes me feel" sort of jibes with the whole 'feelings over facts' phenom throughout the election cycle, no? The president actually mocks a veteran not just during the campaign, but reportedly very recently- and the ire is directed at the players who have pretty eloquently explained themselves.

Oh, and FTR, Trump is loving stoking this fire (and he's said as much). If anyone thinks he gives half a damn about the veterans, I have a bone spur treatment to sell you. He's absolutely giddy over this issue being divisive, and the offended are being played.

 

[redwood66]

@Matata They do play Queen plenty at NFL, NBA, etc. games already, hockey too.

 

[Matata]

They do play Queen plenty at NFL, NBA, etc. games already, hockey too.

Great, then it shouldn't leave too big a gap if the anthem is dispensed with.

 

[redwood66]

Great, then it shouldn't leave too big a gap if the anthem is dispensed with.

Nah. I am good with both.

 

[Matata]

I am good with both.

I'm not

 

[Matata]

Disregarding for a moment that the anthem is played because of the large donation to NFL made by the military as a recruitment tool, here's the thing that bothers me most about the anthem/sports venue debate -- I think it's insulting to those who served, are serving, have sacrificed and are sacrificing to have their service associated with a game. Sports arena warriors throwing an air-filled animal skin around for the purpose of scoring a win while earning millions of dollars to appease a blood thirsty crowd and provide a means for johnqpublic to rid themselves of aggression is not the same as putting your life on the line to keep this country safe. The irony is too much. I don't see playing the anthem in this situation as patriotic; it is, to me, an insult. (stepping gently off the soap box....)

 

[ksinger]

Disregarding for a moment that the anthem is played because of the large donation to NFL made by the military as a recruitment tool, here's the thing that bothers me most about the anthem/sports venue debate -- I think it's insulting to those who served, are serving, have sacrificed and are sacrificing to have their service associated with a game. Sports arena warriors throwing an air-filled animal skin around for the purpose of scoring a win while earning millions of dollars to appease a blood thirsty crowd and provide a means for johnqpublic to rid themselves of aggression is not the same as putting your life on the line to keep this country safe. The irony is too much. I don't see playing the anthem in this situation as patriotic; it is, to me, an insult. (stepping gently off the soap box....)

Not sure I understand that. Elaborate?

Gotta say though, playing the anthem at football games starts way eariier at the state high school level. It certainly did with mine. Along with the socially demanded public obeisance to The Almighty who was invoked over the school loudspeakers at the games. (I can imagine the kerfuffle if someone continously showed up and refused to bow his/her head or stand up for that one. Oiy. Better to just conform, especially in high school where you're SO worried about what others think, right?) Nothing so tasteless as asking for God to give your team a win, but always prefaced with the seemingly extemporaneous yet always the same, verbiage (that I will never be able to get out of my head for the rest of my life): "And Lord, we just......etc, etc," Always "Lord we just". Maybe it's a regional thing, but never could figure that one out. Not long after that, I think schools could no longer allow that, since it was rightly challenged as government preference for a particular religion. And it also falls under the heading of why must we involve religion/anthem at a game of any type?

 

[Matata]

Not sure I understand that. Elaborate?

https://thinkprogress.org/nfl-dod-national-anthem-6f682cebc7cd/

 

[Arkteia]

Hmmm... I don't expect any symbolic gesture of protest (especially one as low-key as kneeling on the sidelines of a field before the game begins) to promptly effectuate change. Nor I do consider a protest synonymous with "good works."

In any event, between October 2016 and June 2017, Colin Kaepernick gave $900,000 to, e.g., Meals on Wheels America; famine relief in Turkey; Mothers Against Police Brutality for headstones and family support programs; crime victims' & youth groups; a fledgling health clinic on the Standing Rock Indian Reservation; urban farming & better nutrition education plus cooking classes in Minneapolis; a nonprofit in Brooklyn that assists black military veterans with housing and employment; 100 Suits for 100 Men (like Dress for Success, but serving recently released inmates); NYC's Coalition for the Homeless.

A sum 90x greater that Trump's lone gift of $5000 - 9,999 (to the NYC Police Athletic League) over the course of the 7+ years between January 1, 2009, when Trump stopped paying money into his private foundation & late May 2016, when he finally made good on his declaration in January that he was giving $1 million of his own money to veterans groups.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...b0774c1eaa5_story.html?utm_term=.4115abf69175
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...erans-group/?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.ebce5a1d54a9

And unlike Trump, Kaepernick is saying the truth. Because in 2016, again, black men in the US faced the highest risk to be killed by the police. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/08/the-counted-police-killings-2016-young-black-men

 

[ksinger]

https://thinkprogress.org/nfl-dod-national-anthem-6f682cebc7cd/

Thanks! Helpful. It should be obvious that my lack-of-modern-pro-football-and-its-attendent-customs cred is legit. I didn't know how long the anthem went back at pro games. I just seem to remember that every time I catch the start of a game (I try not to of course) on TV, someone is just butchering the anthem. (Of course, it is totally easy to butcher it. Ghastly for the average person to sing.)

Just an amusing little story - a few years back, I was at a local mall where they were having a national anthem singing contest. Not kidding. Rendition after rendition after rendition. All a cappella, and all trying to spice it up and show off their chops. It was mostly brutal.

 

[Tekate]

Don't know what that has to do with how I feel about it.
Or how veteran friends feel about it.
It does not matter why he is doing it, it is disrespectful in my opinion.

It matters to Kaepernick. It does not bother me, in my opinion he's exercising his first amendment right.