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Protests To Trump's Anthem Slurs Grow To Nationwide Rebuke

Discussion in 'Hangout' started by AGBF, Sep 24, 2017.

  1. AGBF
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    by AGBF » Sep 24, 2017
    Although this topic was discussed briefly in another thread, I thought it deserved a thread of its own, particularly since the protests are growing. The following is excerpted from an article in "The New York Times".


    "Fueled by Trump’s Tweets, Anthem Protests Grow to a Nationwide Rebuke"
    September 24, 2017


    "On three teams, nearly all the football players skipped the national anthem altogether. Dozens of others, from London to Los Angeles, knelt or locked arms on the sidelines, joined by several team owners in a league normally friendly to President Trump. Some of the sport’s biggest stars joined the kind of demonstration they have steadfastly avoided.

    It was an unusual, sweeping wave of protest and defiance on the sidelines of the country’s most popular game, generated by Mr. Trump’s stream of calls to fire players who have declined to stand for the national anthem in order to raise awareness of police brutality and racial injustice.

    What had been a modest round of anthem demonstrations this season led by a handful of African-American players mushroomed and morphed into a nationwide, diverse rebuke to Mr. Trump, with even some of his staunchest supporters in the N.F.L., including several owners, joining in or condemning Mr. Trump for divisiveness."


    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/24/sports/trump-national-anthem-nfl.html
     
  2. ksinger
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    by ksinger » Sep 25, 2017
    I hope having his nose rubbed in the fact that he is not actually a king who can order things like firings of a private company's employees, or make decrees, upsets The Great Cheeto night and day.
     
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  3. Bluegemz
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    by Bluegemz » Sep 25, 2017
    He's a bully used to ordering people around and he thinks that's going to work. Like walking through one of his hotels and shouting orders at his employees. I'm afraid that this way of getting things done will lead to disaster internationally.
     
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  4. soxfan
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  5. HotPozzum
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    by HotPozzum » Sep 25, 2017
    Help me understand this better - are they protesting the national anthem as a representation of a divided country OR is it just against Trump...? :think: I'm not really sure what the anthem has to do with racism? Is it the lyrics? Sorry genuine question...I'm not 100% up on US politics apart from everyone seems to hate Trump....
     
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  6. redwood66
    Ideal_Rock

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    by redwood66 » Sep 25, 2017
    I agree with this Deb. He needed to stay out of this altogether. More important things to do than get involved in the small ball of the NFL. He is a troll when it comes to twitter and I wish he would abstain.


    Edit -

    I do have a problem with players protesting the national anthem while on foreign soil and then standing for the host country anthem.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
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  7. t-c
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by t-c » Sep 25, 2017
    This is Trump (deliberately?) not understanding: Colin Kaepernick knelt during the national anthem to protest police brutality against African Americans. A few other players did the same, both as a protest and as support for Kaepernick. Neither the anthem nor flag is directly connected to the racism Kaepernick was protesting; it was just a good time for him to do so -- when he would be on camera -- so he could use his platform as a televised athlete to highlight the issue.

    Trump has conflated the protest during the anthem with disrespect for the flag and/or anthem -- to him anything other than standing up with hand on heart is disrespecting the flag, country, and "our heritage" (whatever that means).
     
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  8. partgypsy
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    by partgypsy » Sep 25, 2017
    As someone I know, posted on Facebook:
    "Mexico, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Florida, and Houston devastated by natural catastrophes.
    But, hey, NFL, here's a tweet war."

    Idiot president
     
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  9. Karl_K
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    by Karl_K » Sep 25, 2017
    What is happening that the administration wanted people distracted so they missed it?
    That is always my question when this kind of thing happens no matter who is president.

    Btw I agree with trump that turning off football in protest of them disrespecting the anthem and the flag and all the veterans who have died for their freedom to get paid for playing a game is a good thing to do. I know many veterans who do feel disrespected by it.

    I don't agree with him using the office of the presidency to raise the issue however.
    There are much more important things he should be working on.
    Then again, is it a distraction? What is happening?
     
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  10. soxfan
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    by soxfan » Sep 25, 2017
    And I know many veterans who support their right to protest peacefully and would defend it to their deaths. And who are we to assume what ANY veteran who is no longer with us would think of this? Who are we to assume they would take issue with it?
     
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  11. monarch64
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    by monarch64 » Sep 25, 2017
    Good. It's about time people started shucking the propaganda this country tries to shove down their throats. I am all for paying taxes and contributing to society, but that does NOT mean I have to buy into every single thing I'm told to do, hook/line/sinker. I do not pledge allegiance to anything, including the flag which is merely a symbol of the government, in my opinion. I appreciate the Star Spangled Banner being sung at sporting events and other gatherings, but I don't sing along. I stand to show respect to others. I have every right not to fall in line with what society has decided is expected of me, and I have really no political statement to make other than it seems really ****ing wrong to me to use politics and religion to control the masses. :shock: Sorry; not sorry.

    Trump is a total snowflake. The biggest, orangest snowflake you've ever seen.
     
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  12. E B
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    by E B » Sep 25, 2017
    All of this. It's not about the flag or the anthem, and anyone who continues to think so that isn't only plugged into Fox either has his or her fingers plugging their ears or know, but don't care. And that's a big part of the problem right there, isn't it?

    Over a dozen tweets about this stupid NFL flight Trump picked and how many about Puerto Rico? Or addressing the looming crisis with NK that isn't some completely insane taunt? The president was, and always will be a stupid, vengeful man child. There will be no pivot, because it's worse by the day, no matter which general they trot out to "tame" him.

    Screen Shot 2017-09-25 at 1.05.45 PM.png
     
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  13. whitewave
    Ideal_Rock

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    by whitewave » Sep 25, 2017
    A louisiana lawmaker introduced legislation (i guess today) to take away subsizies for the NFL franchise...

    They never miss a chance to pile on....

    http://www.wwltv.com/sports/nfl/sai...e-funds-anthem-protest-unacceptable/478472734

    "Havard said the players are welcome to exercise their right to protest, but the state doesn't have to pay for it.

    "It is time the taxpayers quit subsidizing protest on big boy playgrounds," Havard said. "I believe in the right to protest but, not at a taxpayer subsidized sporting event. Do it on your own time.

    "There are plenty of disabled children, elderly and veterans in this state that would appreciate the money."

    The total value of incentives provided to the Saints by the state was unclear early Monday morning.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
  14. E B
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    by E B » Sep 25, 2017
    A teensy tiny moment of levity: In the most obvious red meat toss to the base of all time, Trump praised NASCAR fans for 'not disrespecting the flag,' and then there was this:

    dale.png
     
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  15. soxfan
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  16. monarch64
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    by monarch64 » Sep 25, 2017
    Whoa, and a huge "**** yeah!" to Dale Earnhardt Jr.! Maybe I just became a NASCAR fan.

    Yesterday my daughter was watching a Barbie cartoon on Netflix. The "Evil Closet" called Ken an "ambulatory meatsack." I thought, now THERE'S a good name for our POTUS...
    Ambulatory. Meatsack. :lol-2::lol-2::lol: Someone needs to poach that writer for something political because it's one of the most amazing insults I've ever heard.
     
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  17. whitewave
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    by whitewave » Sep 25, 2017
    The problem is now kneeling means you don't support Trump.

    This is exactly what Trump wanted, in my opinion... he is no fool (I didn't vote for him! And I don't like him but I do like what my 401k is doing and the environment for small business is better... so...)

    He is intefering to mess it all up and to redefine what it means to kneel. He loves this kind of stuff, IMO
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
  18. ksinger
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    by ksinger » Sep 25, 2017
    It may seem wrong to us today, but it has not been wrong or out of the ordinary for the best part of Christian history, indeed any history. For instance...

    From page 23 in Frances Fitzgerald's "The Evangelicals - The Struggle to Shape America", speaking about the spread of evangelicalism in the South - observations about the Anglican Church there:
    "The Anglican Church had been the established church in Virginia, Maryland, the Carolinas, and Georgia since the settlement of the colonies, but it had neither independence nor power. The local landed gentry, who dominated the church vestries, opposed the creation of a diocese, preferring to keep the clergy and ecclesiastical taxes under their own control.....Those churches that flourished were essentially fiefdoms of local gentry and identified with a class system that sharply distinguished the aristocrats from the common people and slaves."

    Basically, controlling the riff-raff and propping up clearly-defined hierarchies, has been a primary function of churches from the git-go.
     
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  19. monarch64
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    by monarch64 » Sep 25, 2017
    K, yes, I am aware that historically religion has been used to keep folks in line. I was (in my opinion, fortunately) raised by folks who provided me exposure to religion but did not condemn me for opting out. I opted out when I hit puberty and started questioning everything that seemed completely against the grain of humanity...I think the Wizard of Oz had already wormed its way into my brain by then, and I figured out on my own that there is always some ridiculousness happening behind the scenes that everyone is supposed to politely ignore.
     
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  20. mary poppins
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    by mary poppins » Sep 25, 2017
    The GOP's attempt to repeal Obamacare failed on Friday because McCain and two others voted no. The GOP introduced a new bill today revised to try to sway them. The Congressional Budget Office does not have enough time time to review the bill before the September 30 deadline to repeal. Regardless, it is known that many will lose coverage under the new bill. As of right now, the GOP is currently one vote "no" vote away from failure, thus egg on Trump's face that he will blame on someone else (probably McCain)

    Trump's Twitter pissing content with North Korea escalated.

    It became known that Jared Kushner used private email for White House business.

    Puerto Rico begged for help because apparently people don't know it's part of the USA. Texas, Florida and the US Virgin Islands still need a lot of help.

    But let's not talk about any of that. Football players kneeling during the national anthem and Trump's ego are more important.
     
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  21. ksinger
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    by ksinger » Sep 25, 2017
    Yeah, I get that opting out. My mom told me when I was 6, after having had the bejeesus scared out of me by a trip to my best friend's church and viewing a film on The Rapture (seriously, who shows that crap to little kids?), that I did not have to believe what adults told me, that I had a good mind and I should use it, and if something sounded off, or I had any questions, to ask her first. She also did not indoctrinate me in a religion. A free and inquiring mind is the best thing she ever gave me. I miss her every day...

    I use history to try make sense of the insanity. (As if I have much of a chance of doing otherwise, being married to a history teacher) Oddly, it makes me feel better and worse at the same time. Better to know that the current craziness and hypocrisy is not new, that it's been going on since the 1600s in America, and worse in that I can't believe that humanity has much chance of overcoming the worse angels of our nature since we seem to keep doing the same thing over and over and over. I will give people of the past that they were much more honest about blaming the poor for their plight and in their belief in rigid hierarchy as being the best way to structure society, and the surety that such a structure was ordained by God himself. And more honest in that this place was never meant to be some egalitarian eden of equal opportunity for all. That's a myth we've told ourselves to avoid having to face the pain of the reality. Oh, we periodically take a few steps forward to try to live up to that myth, but as soon as too much progress is made for comfort, the pushback (as right now) becomes epic.
     
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  22. Karl_K
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    by Karl_K » Sep 25, 2017
    That they were getting them in the first place speaks highly of the stupidity of the government in the first place.
     
  23. whitewave
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    by whitewave » Sep 25, 2017
    Yup. Louisiana needs those tax breaks for other issues; he is right about that. Every time they try, Benson would shop the Saints around to other states and Louisiana would back down.
     
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  24. Tekate
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    by Tekate » Sep 25, 2017
    Many black Americans have not experienced the patriotism that white Americans have. They do not feel a part of the same America as whites do. Last night on the Viet Nam story on PBS there was a black man who returned to Boston after his 13months as a marine in Viet Nam. He could not hail a cab, no one would pick him up, a state trooper hailed a cab for him and asked the cabbie why no one was picking up this hero, the cabbie said, no one wants to drive to Roxbury (I think he said that) and the black veteran said on camera that while he fought bravely for America, at home he was still just a nword. It's a different America. Trump isn't helping at all. It's hard to sing and feel something you have never felt.
     
  25. MissGotRocks
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    by MissGotRocks » Sep 25, 2017
    And last but not least let's be grateful that we live in a country where we are not forced to pledge allegiance to anyone or anything. Trump seems to have missed history and civics classes where we learned that this country was founded on many freedoms. I know he would like to dictate to all of us what we should do but thank goodness we are not that far gone yet. I personally don't agree with kneeling during the anthem but I think he has just missed the whole point of the 'protest' and/or chooses to see it as simply being unpatriotic. He's a dense one.
     
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  26. ksinger
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  27. Matata
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  28. E B
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    by E B » Sep 26, 2017
    Apparently, last night the Dallas Cowboys took a knee (with their owner) before the anthem and still, outrage. Looks like said outrage wasn't much to do with the anthem or the flag after all.

    Shocked, I tell you. :roll
     
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  29. E B
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    by E B » Sep 26, 2017
    IMG_3235.jpg

    "Great anger." He loves this.
     
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  30. Kbell
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    by Kbell » Sep 26, 2017
    I understand the cause that originally led to players taking a knee & protesting.
    I have also personally spoken to many Veterans & fellow football fans regarding the issue.
    Most, not all, that I have spoken with see it as disrespectful. You CAN bring attention to your cause without appearing disrespectful to another group. Some of your team kneeling and some standing is NOT unity. It is NOT solidarity. And Leaving a sole Veteran player to stand alone during the National anthem while you cower in the locker room like a bunch of pansies is an utter disgrace! Nice teamwork. Way to stand by your fellow man who made the sacrifice most other players wouldn't dream of! The entire thing is disgusting to me. Why not spend the millions you are overpaid to help your cause instead of basically giving a big F U to 1/2 your fans? I tune in to watch football... not to have your political agenda forced upon me. I didn't like the Steelers before this (as most Pats fans don't) but now they've pissed of many of their own fans! Way to go.

    While on the field you are being paid a salary like my company pays me. My freedom of speech stops at the door. Would I love to tell some of my coworkers to go F themselves daily? Sure! Who wouldn't? But most normal people know there are consequences to "exercising your free speech" in the workplace & they refrain and act respectful to all. So the teams could manage this better. But it's football and full of players full of themselves & I'm so sick of it - it makes me want to stop watching. I know plenty of others who feel the same and a few who don't give a ^&%*&.

    Instead of unifying people when they could, they are doing exactly the opposite.
    But the NFL has never come across as a very "smart" organization so I'm not surprised.
     

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