our own John Pollard in a AGS podcast advertisement

[WinkHPD]

I have also been thinking about the incredible numbers posted by John earlier. I will go find them so as not to quote them inaccurately, but they bear repeating.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 8/15/2008 3:40:15 PM
Author: John Pollard

Date: 8/14/2008 6:26:01 PM
Author: strmrdr

using a pretend 1 to 10 scale of diamond beauty...

The average rb on the market in my area is a 6 and the best rb a 10
The average princess on the market in my area is a 3 and the best a 10
The difference between average and best is much wider in princess cuts.
In my opinion and according to my observations.

In a hypothetical sense I agree completely.
I''d add that if you walk into a discount-diamond outlet in any major city the low end of the round range drops off.

DiaGem, here is some actual data for you. I searched Rap for round brilliants, D-K, 0.90-1.10 ct, sorted by best available price. Those examples are what you might expect to find in “discount” consumer markets. I only looked at depth, so it''s far from an actual study, but I hope it interests you.

Note that IGI and EGL have different report formats; many of which give no indication of cut quality, like the examples posted above.

IGI-graded

Of the lowest-priced 1000 round brilliants returned
617 have depth >63%
397 >65%
264 >66%
170 >67%
(70 = no depth reported or incorrectly classified)

EGL-graded (all labs)

Of the lowest-priced 1000 round brilliants returned
545 have depth >63%
282 >65%
184 >66%
124 >67%
(30 = no depth reported or incorrectly classified)

GIA-graded

Of the lowest-priced 1000 round brilliants returned

671 have depth >63%... Post-2006 reports show a cut grade of VG or lower
(49 = no depth reported or incorrectly classified)

AGS-graded

620 round brilliants listed

65 have depth >63%... None of them received AGS0
(10 = no depth reported or incorrectly classified)


I believe new shoppers in commercial markets, as well as those looking online, are more protected by seeking reports with a reputable cut quality assessment.

Even better advice, tailored to each person: Choose the jeweler before you choose the stone. Choosing an AGS member is usually a good choice. Choosing a dealer in AGSL goods is another good choice. There are others of course. The lab report, no matter what lab issued it, is support for the confidence you are placing in your jeweler, not a substitute for it. The one who is calling it ''ideal'' is the jeweler just as they are the one who chose what lab and what definition to use.

Of the IGI certs 26.4% of the 1000 least expensive diamonds have a depth greater than 66% and a whopping 17% have a total depth greater than 67%.

Of the EGL certs 18.4% of the 1000 least expensive diamonds have a depth greater than 66% and a whopping 12.4% have a total depth greater than 67%.

These things are selling in the commercial markets. And at MUCH higher margins than most of us make on the better makes. Would an informed consumer buy these? Very probably not. But at least they should be allowed to be informed and to make a choice.

At GIA we can not make a comparrison evidently since the depth that John reported on is only the 67.1% with depths over 63% of the 1000 least expensive diamonds.

Oh, and at AGS, there are not the 1000 listed stones to compare against let alone the 1000 least expensive because there are only 620 listed stones, period. Of these 10.48% are listed with depths over 63%.

On this comparrison alone I would have to take exception to the thought that AGS is ruining the market for improvement or experimentation with diamond cutting. Whiile they have the strictest guidelines it is obvious that the majority of dealers choose to cut to lest stringent standards and to use the less restrictive laboratories.

AGS is not a dominant force in the industry, although some of us cut enthusiasts wish that they were. You will have to look elsewhere for someone to blame if you thnink there is no reason to experiment to improve the round or princess cut diamonds.

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the consumer needs to know about AGS and GIA and the standards that are available to help them understand diamonds and diamond cutting. When I wake up in the morning I will feel the same way.

Now I need to go kayaking, it is a hot day and I need to be cooled down. Maybe I will see you later this evening, or maybe I will see you tomorrow, but for sure, I will see you later!

Wink

 

[strmrdr]

Wink there is a difference...
Lets fast forward 3 years and say I get very lucky and have some of my better designs available for sale.
I am not so much competing for the mall IGI buyer I'm competing for the sales to your type of customer vs other cuts and brands.
If they are all convinced anything but AGS0 is junk then where am I?
Where are you because they are a perfect opportunity to sell beyond the engagement market.
In my opinion the average Lady has too few gemstones and diamonds :}
I want to give them a reason to change that.

Honestly the typical mall store diamond buyer would have 0 interest in them.
The only way they would is if I took the money and ran and they were for sale in the mall stores.
The customers I would target are your customers(and Jon's and Todd's). (Which is why if it ever happens I'm going to hit you and them up to carry them)

Lets find a way to weed out the bad cuts in consumer mind share without damaging the rest of the excellent cuts.

 

[risingsun]

Date: 8/16/2008 4:36:49 PM
Author: Serg

Date: 8/16/2008 4:22:16 PM
Author: risingsun
Serg,
Please read the edited part of my post. I know that it doesn't change things very much. As a consumer, I honestly don't have enough confidence in my own ability to make an educated choice in a diamond without some very clear parameters. What is a clear parameter to me is very different than to you. You already have this knowledge and I'm just learning. I have enjoyed our discussion. I am open to new information.

re:ETA: I didn't see the part of the post that said that my eyes preferred the second diamond!! In that case, I would be conflicted. I would probably go home and think it over and not make a decision on the spot. It would make my choice more difficult. I hope I would choose the diamond my eyes prefer, but it would be a close call.

Marian,

Fine. I will try again

Do you have chance do it if you firstly ask reports?( and then see diamonds)

Do you have any chance now to find what your eyes could prefer except AGS0 ?

Do you enjoy what you have choice only between ASG0 round and ASG0 princess ?

Serg,
If I see the reports first, I might be biased toward the AGS diamonds.
If I don't see the reports first, I have the best opportunity of making an unbiased choice--provided I trust the vendor.
I would be interested in having more choices than a round or a princess.

If there were no AGS or GIA, who would provide oversight? This is one of my concerns. Is there an alternative?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 8/16/2008 8:36:22 PM
Author: risingsun
Serg,
If I see the reports first, I might be biased toward the AGS diamonds.
If I don''t see the reports first, I have the best opportunity of making an unbiased choice--provided I trust the vendor.
I would be interested in having more choices than a round or a princess.

If there were no AGS or GIA, who would provide oversight? This is one of my concerns. Is there an alternative?

Watch this space RisingSun.
Or read this if you have an hour or 2 to go to all the links.
http://www.octonus.ch/cut/index.html

I guess I should get andrey to post a little IPod download or movie.

 

[Lynn B]

Whoa, I have waded through all nine pages of this thread, and just have one question... where's the hair-pulling emoticon when you need it???!!

OK, seriously... FWIW, I liked the Podcast. As a consumer, I understand the audience John was targeting, and the message he was making. For us PSers, it's hard to believe, I know,

but not everyone wants to immerse themselves into knowing and learning about (or agonizing over!

) diamonds. For a person like this, buying an AGS-0 stone is simply one easy way to make it a relatively no-brainer type of experience, while still ending up with a beautiful diamond.


And, oh yeah, one more thing... add me to the masses... I am definitely a "noticer of SIZE and SPARKLE first!" kind of a girl!!! Oh yeah, babeeeeeee!

 

[risingsun]

Date: 8/16/2008 9:32:42 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 8/16/2008 8:36:22 PM
Author: risingsun
Serg,
If I see the reports first, I might be biased toward the AGS diamonds.
If I don''t see the reports first, I have the best opportunity of making an unbiased choice--provided I trust the vendor.
I would be interested in having more choices than a round or a princess.

If there were no AGS or GIA, who would provide oversight? This is one of my concerns. Is there an alternative?

Watch this space RisingSun.
Or read this if you have an hour or 2 to go to all the links.
http://www.octonus.ch/cut/index.html

I guess I should get andrey to post a little IPod download or movie.

Send me a few of your Aussie brews and I''ll start reading--after watching the Olympics

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 8/16/2008 8:27:08 PM
Author: strmrdr
Wink there is a difference...

Lets fast forward 3 years and say I get very lucky and have some of my better designs available for sale.

I am not so much competing for the mall IGI buyer I''m competing for the sales to your type of customer vs other cuts and brands.

If they are all convinced anything but AGS0 is junk then where am I?

Where are you because they are a perfect opportunity to sell beyond the engagement market.

In my opinion the average Lady has too few gemstones and diamonds :}

I want to give them a reason to change that.


Honestly the typical mall store diamond buyer would have 0 interest in them.

The only way they would is if I took the money and ran and they were for sale in the mall stores.

The customers I would target are your customers(and Jon''s and Todd''s). (Which is why if it ever happens I''m going to hit you and them up to carry them)


Lets find a way to weed out the bad cuts in consumer mind share without damaging the rest of the excellent cuts.

Au Contraire mon ami! My clients buy what I am excited about. If your stones have not an AGS grading system to be numbered by it is no problem. When I had access to the Jubilee I sold it. It had not an AGS grade.

I have sold a few Asscher, but they are not a big favorite of mine so I am not so excited about them and thus do not sell many. Now, the one that was cut in India for AGS, that stone I could sell a lot of if they were but available at a reasonable price, but unfortunately the yield is much too small to be competitive use of the rough.

AGS 0''s 1''s and 2''s are easy to sell because they describe what I am selling very well. They are an excellent way to weed out the trash and say ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about one of your cuts, because your cuts have not the AGS cut grade, although if you produce enough of them then AGS will create it for you. They are already working on a couple of proprietary cuts if I am not mistaken.

Do not worry about a non existent bogey man who has less than 2% of the market in the certificate market. Worry more about the commercial market who will steal your designs if they become popular and cut them poorly to maximize their return and destroy the credibility of your product.

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 8/16/2008 8:27:08 PM
Author: strmrdr

I am not so much competing for the mall IGI buyer I''m competing for the sales to your type of customer vs other cuts and brands.

If they are all convinced anything but AGS0 is junk then where am I?

Someday I will learn to be concise.

Storm, if you sell me on the stone, I will sell my clients. That is my life''s work and my passion.

Wink

 

[strmrdr]

I cant yet guarantee I can do so at this size but lets say I can make these measurements and yield level beautiful: (I have a few designs that might very well do this but they aren't well enough researched to say for sure)

1.20 G SI1 66% 61% GIA - no gd gd 6.69-6.61x4.39
$5557

lets set the price of the same diameter AGS0 as the max price:
1.101 G SI1 1.6-EX
ex-ex-ex-vg 0 61.9% 57% 34.8° 40.8° thn-med f id id no 6.58-6.67x4.08 AGS $6533*

Lets say it comes back si2 because AGS may be a little stricter on clarity:

1.084 G SI2 1.5-EX
ex-ex-ex-vg 0
H&A
ACA 61.5% 57% 34.8° 40.8° thn-med f id id no 6.58-6.65x4.05 AGS $5819

See the power? A beautiful 1.20ct stone I can sell for the same or less than the same diameter but lighter AGS0 and make a nice profit.
Everyone wins from the cutter, rough producer, and consumers.
There would of course be some rough close to a magic numbder this would not work with.

This is the magic of unrestrained research and cutting :}

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 8/17/2008 12:08:58 AM
Author: strmrdr
I cant yet guarantee I can do so at this size but lets say I can make these measurements and yield level beautiful: (I have a few designs that might very well do this but they aren''t well enough researched to say for sure)

1.20 G SI1 66% 61% GIA - no gd gd 6.69-6.61x4.39
$5557

lets set the price of the same diameter AGS0 as the max price:
1.101 G SI1 1.6-EX
ex-ex-ex-vg 0 61.9% 57% 34.8° 40.8° thn-med f id id no 6.58-6.67x4.08 AGS $6533*

Lets say it comes back si2 because AGS may be a little stricter on clarity:

1.084 G SI2 1.5-EX
ex-ex-ex-vg 0
H&A
ACA 61.5% 57% 34.8° 40.8° thn-med f id id no 6.58-6.65x4.05 AGS $5819

See the power? A beautiful 1.20ct stone I can sell for the same or less than the same diameter but lighter AGS0 and make a nice profit.
Everyone wins from the cutter, rough producer, and consumers.
There would of course be some rough close to a magic numbder this would not work with.

This is the magic of unrestrained research and cutting :}

''By George I do believe he''s got it''

Storm, welcome to the club. There are probaly about a dozen of us who understand the problem.
I am sure John does now, and Wink is getting close too.

(Garry opens another beer and sings: the rain in spain falls mainly on the plain)

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/16/2008 1:47:56 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 8/16/2008 1:27:31 PM
Author: Ellen
I totally get that there can be diamonds with uncoventional numbers that can be beautiful. It's the (imo) preposterous statement that every single diamond, regardless of cut, is going to be beautiful. That is what I (and I imagine almost everyone else here) have a problem with.

To understand DiaGem you have to know his work.
Unfortunately a lot of it cant be posted in public because:
1: that market demands privacy.
2: the risk of theft of the designs.

What I do in DC with unconventional designs he does in diamond at the wheel using experience and a lot of 'that looks right' to make beautiful diamonds.

And that's great, as he is cutting fancies, correct? I do believe he said in here he doesn't cut rounds, which is part of what we have been talking about. But let's say he was cutting a round. You said he uses his experience and a lot of "that looks right". Which implies there are points where he would think something doesn't look right. But those "don't look right" stones are out in the world being sold every day, and they're not pretty. That's my point.

As I said before, I do understand and acknowledge there are stones with unconventional numbers that are pretty, and many that are not. DiaGem is the one who refuses to see the same.

But thank you for posting why he has not had to reveal himself, as I always wondered about that.

 

[stone_seeker]

I cant believe this thread has been going on for so long!!! LOL

When you guys come up with a system for grading cushions (much more valuable in my opinion) let me know. Cushions are the most confusing and yet bluenile and others have "ideal", "signature" on many of their selections.

I would pay extra for a service to "pre-screen" cushion cuts for me.

Thanks

 

[Serg]

Date: 8/17/2008 9:56:30 AM
Author: stone_seeker
I cant believe this thread has been going on for so long!!! LOL

When you guys come up with a system for grading cushions (much more valuable in my opinion) let me know. Cushions are the most confusing and yet bluenile and others have ''ideal'', ''signature'' on many of their selections.

I would pay extra for a service to ''pre-screen'' cushion cuts for me.

Thanks

Cushion is good example.
1) There are a lot of patterns
2) There are a lot of parameters for each pattern
3) Girdle shape has ability for big range variation

In same time Average LR is to small( main reason is big Girdle ration what do difficult LR optimization. For square Cushion task is much more easy)

I believe in the great potential of cushion cut . Beauty optimization of Cushion cut has done a great progress in recent several years. A soon this cut will compete with Princess cut for colorless diamonds
Cushion cut is one of best cuts for fancy color now

 

[psadmin]

Date: 8/16/2008 9:32:42 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 8/16/2008 8:36:22 PM
Author: risingsun
Serg,
If I see the reports first, I might be biased toward the AGS diamonds.
If I don't see the reports first, I have the best opportunity of making an unbiased choice--provided I trust the vendor.
I would be interested in having more choices than a round or a princess.

If there were no AGS or GIA, who would provide oversight? This is one of my concerns. Is there an alternative?

Watch this space RisingSun.
Or read this if you have an hour or 2 to go to all the links.
http://www.octonus.ch/cut/index.html

I guess I should get andrey to post a little IPod download or movie.

Garry here is the movie you requested https://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/files/InclusGirdledemo3.wmv

I have also added to the Pricescope video gallery http://diamondscope.pricescope.com/

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 8/18/2008 3:14:27 AM
Author: PS Admin

Date: 8/16/2008 9:32:42 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 8/16/2008 8:36:22 PM
Author: risingsun
Serg,
If I see the reports first, I might be biased toward the AGS diamonds.
If I don''t see the reports first, I have the best opportunity of making an unbiased choice--provided I trust the vendor.
I would be interested in having more choices than a round or a princess.

If there were no AGS or GIA, who would provide oversight? This is one of my concerns. Is there an alternative?

Watch this space RisingSun.
Or read this if you have an hour or 2 to go to all the links.
http://www.octonus.ch/cut/index.html

I guess I should get andrey to post a little IPod download or movie.

Garry here is the movie you requested https://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/files/InclusGirdledemo3.wmv

I have also added to the Pricescope video gallery http://diamondscope.pricescope.com/

Thanks Andrey.

Rising Sun you can easily see the inclusions in this diamond. This is new technology that will be available early next year.
Anyone will be able to see the stone - eventually you should also be able to show you the colour of the diamonds too - you could open a D, E, F, G, H of 2 or more different cuts on your computer screen, compare VS2 to SI1 etc.

The stones will be able to be seen in Gem Adviser - the files for most I 1 stones could be under 500kb - Flawless will be under 30kb.
And you will be able see it all your self.

It is just one of a whole arsenal of tools to make it possible for companies to brand their diamonds. There is a lot more of this coming. Sergey has had these visions and been working on many fronts for a long time

 

[risingsun]

Thanks for the movie, Garry and Andrey. It's kewl [tm strm]. Will we be able to control the speed and direction of the image? I appreciate seeing these innovations taking place. I will, indeed, watch this space. Maybe we need to sticky a "watch this space" thread, hmm...

BTW: I have been reading the links to Octonus that you recommended. It requires a shift in thinking, doesn't it...

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/18/2008 11:07:43 AM
Author: risingsun

BTW: I have been reading the links to Octonus that you recommended. It requires a shift in thinking, doesn''t it...

It comes down to marketing, saying this is THE ideal is much easier than explaining why its a beautiful diamond and why one should buy it.

 

[diagem]

Date: 8/18/2008 12:36:47 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 8/18/2008 11:07:43 AM
Author: risingsun

BTW: I have been reading the links to Octonus that you recommended. It requires a shift in thinking, doesn''t it...

It comes down to marketing, saying this is THE ideal is much easier than explaining why its a beautiful diamond and why one should buy it.

What if someone doesnt think the Ideal round brilliants are beautiful?

?

??

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 8/18/2008 11:07:43 AM
Author: risingsun
Thanks for the movie, Garry and Andrey. It''s kewl [tm strm]. Will we be able to control the speed and direction of the image? I appreciate seeing these innovations taking place. I will, indeed, watch this space. Maybe we need to sticky a ''watch this space'' thread, hmm...

BTW: I have been reading the links to Octonus that you recommended. It requires a shift in thinking, doesn''t it...

Movies can be made with DiamCalc and saved in various formats, including very soon, in Ipod format.
But you will be able to take the raw file and open it in Gem Adviser, and make movies on your own screen (but not save them). You can drag a diamond into any position - e.g. eye clean princess cuts often have easily visible inclusions from the side that are very off-putting.

 

[John P]

Date: 8/16/2008 12:59:37 AM
Author: Serg

John,

1) Does WF or Infinity publish diamonds on Rap, Idex?
2) Did you search on PS?

Serg,

I went ahead and pulled today''s figures from the largest trading networks available: Rap, Pricescope and IDEX.

Total rounds listed on Pricescope > 260,000
Total graded by AGS = 1824 or Total listed as AGS0 = 686 or
Total rounds listed on RapNet >250,000
Total graded by AGS = 911 or Total listed as AGS0 = 716 or
Total rounds listed on IDEX >163,000
Total graded by AGS = 3240 or 2.0%
Total listed as AGS0 = 2216 or 1.4%

The IDEX numbers agre with the graphic from theirJuly article, posted below. However, IDEX is obviously not accounting for all IGI reports (they may not include the widely proliferated ‘credit card’ report or ‘report-appraisal’ formats used in US mall stores?).
This means AGS may have less market share than the 1.6% indicated, which would be in-line with the numbers from PS and Rap.

 

[Maisie]

Date: 8/16/2008 9:50:10 PM
Author: Lynn B
Whoa, I have waded through all nine pages of this thread, and just have one question... where''s the hair-pulling emoticon when you need it???!!

OK, seriously... FWIW, I liked the Podcast. As a consumer, I understand the audience John was targeting, and the message he was making. For us PSers, it''s hard to believe, I know,

but not everyone wants to immerse themselves into knowing and learning about (or agonizing over!

) diamonds. For a person like this, buying an AGS-0 stone is simply one easy way to make it a relatively no-brainer type of experience, while still ending up with a beautiful diamond.


And, oh yeah, one more thing... add me to the masses... I am definitely a ''noticer of SIZE and SPARKLE first!'' kind of a girl!!! Oh yeah, babeeeeeee!

I absolutely agree with this.

 

[John P]

Date: 8/16/2008 9:32:42 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Watch this space RisingSun.
Or read this if you have an hour or 2 to go to all the links.

http://www.octonus.ch/cut/index.html

I think there is a misconception here. The lead graphic at that link cites "mass-production" of ideals as a prime influence (see below) but this is not the case.

As shown in my post just above, maybe 2% of diamonds are ever graded by AGS. Clearly, 2% is not nearly enough to influence the market-at-large and is certainly does not equate to “mass production” as the graphic implies.

I agree that rounds currently follow a template (a little different for 60/60, FIC, BIC or near-Tolk) but there is certainly no “overcapacity” of ideal cuts...

If anything, the danger to consumers is rounds cut with weight recovery as a priority. If there is an overcapacity of anything it's cuts with depth and/or angles resulting in reduced performance and/or spread for size.

Please review Wink's re-post of stats at the top of the page: AGS0 represents a tiny fraction of diamonds with (arguably) great performance. This is not the danger to consumers. The danger is the abundant overweight or poor-performing stones that some dealers will label with a term people trust. Those shoppers are whom the Podcast hopes to reach.

 

[strmrdr]

The point is that the industry is playing the game in a dumb manner.
The historical controls in the industry and to some extent today allowed people and companies to go stagnant and stay in business.

Following the leader down the ideal cut path is another symptom of that.

Where are the industry leaders willing to take a challenge and be dynamic and engaging to consumers?
Sure there are some small companies here doing it but they aren't big enough to lead the industry.
Where are the leaders capable of making an impact?
Where are the leaders of the industry?
Does it even have leaders other than the failed cartel and the people hanging on to the old system?
Why is every news report I see about something wrong in the industry?

There is lot of rough that will not cut into an ideal cut in today's market for many reasons.
Isn't it about time someone said hey we can do better than cutting them like we always have and selling them to unknowing consumers who mistakenly trust the wrong people?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/18/2008 4:28:27 PM
Author: Maisie

Date: 8/16/2008 9:50:10 PM

Author: Lynn B

Whoa, I have waded through all nine pages of this thread, and just have one question... where''s the hair-pulling emoticon when you need it???!!

OK, seriously... FWIW, I liked the Podcast. As a consumer, I understand the audience John was targeting, and the message he was making. For us PSers, it''s hard to believe, I know,

but not everyone wants to immerse themselves into knowing and learning about (or agonizing over!

) diamonds. For a person like this, buying an AGS-0 stone is simply one easy way to make it a relatively no-brainer type of experience, while still ending up with a beautiful diamond.



And, oh yeah, one more thing... add me to the masses... I am definitely a ''noticer of SIZE and SPARKLE first!'' kind of a girl!!! Oh yeah, babeeeeeee!

I absolutely agree with this.

It is true to some extent but cutting diamonds in a way that''s just a tiny part of diamonds true potential isn''t the answer.

 

[John P]

Date: 8/18/2008 5:09:27 PM
Author: strmrdr

There is lot of rough that will not cut into an ideal cut in today''s market for many reasons.
Isn''t it about time someone said hey we can do better than cutting them like we always have and selling them to unknowing consumers who mistakenly trust the wrong people?

Sure. In fact, if more rough was converted like you have laid out in this thread there would be less need for the Podcast.

We are not there yet, however. While the concept Serg brings forward is being developed there is still a need for messaging that helps people understand that the highlighted is happening.

Ergo...

Date: 8/16/2008 8:18:24 AM
Author: Serg

John see a lot of small sharks, I see several big Sharks . Consumer can be smart enough to avoide small sharks, But he has not real chance avoid big Sharks now

Very well. You guys build a bigger boat. Meanwhile, I''m plugging away with my harpoon on behalf of the swimmers in the water.

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 8/16/2008 12:17:03 PM
Author: risingsun
Ellen''s ''book'' appears to be shared by John, Wink, Paul, and Brian.

I *think* those are the four original apostles of the diamond new testament.....but I could be wrong.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/18/2008 5:38:33 PM
Author: Allison D.

Date: 8/16/2008 12:17:03 PM
Author: risingsun
Ellen''s ''book'' appears to be shared by John, Wink, Paul, and Brian.

I *think* those are the four original apostles of the diamond new testament.....but I could be wrong.

Good to see ya Alj.

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 8/18/2008 5:50:49 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 8/18/2008 5:38:33 PM
Author: Allison D.

Date: 8/16/2008 12:17:03 PM
Author: risingsun
Ellen''s ''book'' appears to be shared by John, Wink, Paul, and Brian.

I *think* those are the four original apostles of the diamond new testament.....but I could be wrong.

Good to see ya Alj.

Just back from a glorious weekend in Maine, and GREAT to see you too, El.

Excellent points you''ve made.

 

[whatmeworry]

I think we''re glossing over an important point that Serg made.
Telling consumers to buy a certain brand (lab or diamond manufacture or vendor) imparts no real knowledge on how to buy a diamond with confidence. It''s telling consumers to swim in my pool and you''ll be safe from the sharks, instead of really teaching them to SWIM on their own. Teaching them what to look for when evaluating a diamond. my little rant.