our own John Pollard in a AGS podcast advertisement

[diagem]

Date: 8/16/2008 11:49:54 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 8/16/2008 11:36:12 AM
Author: DiaGem
Sorry Ellen..., still dont see the connection between steep/deep and beauty!
Showing radical examples is the easy way out (always was

)..., but it still doesnt make this specific Diamond not a beautiful one (especially not via papers and numbers!)...

It might be that this Diamond is not to your ''performance'' standards or even ''cut'' standards..., but I guess I still have to learn how to measure performance

..., cut wise..., its all based on personal preference..., and everyone has his/hers own taste!

And thank god we dont live by your book

! I would probably have ended up on a life sentence according to your book

!

That''s because there isn''t much of one.

You want to find this stone beautiful, that''s great. But people should know what they are doing before deeming such a stone beautiful. They should know what an AGS0, or any very well cut stone looks like, to truly compare cut/beauty. And if they don''t know, I think it''s wise to err on the side of caution.


I have bit my tongue more than once with you about rolling the eyes at me. You don''t do that with the men on here, so am I to assume I''m special or something?

Well..., I am happy we got that straight:

It changes your previous writing: "...And I also don''t recall steep/deeps being referred to as frozen spit. The implication to them being mentioned, is that they are not going to be nearly as bright and beautiful as a stone cut closer to Tolk specs..."

As finding THAT specific stone beautiful...., I said previously that extreme examples are easy to point out too..., and until you view THAT stone with your own eyes you cant describe its beauty!
We also have to mention the fact that a 63% total depth + is too considered a steep/deep combo...

I have never noticed that I differentiated between men and woman..., but you are definitely special..., after all..., it is never boring between us

 

[Serg]

Date: 8/16/2008 12:54:53 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 8/16/2008 12:50:21 PM
Author: Serg

You received education after you bought diamond? Is it right way? I think consumer should receive education before he buy diamond.

I agree and that is what I like to do. It is what John likes to do.

I admit to 'some' bias as to what I think the education will lead to.

I am proud to do so.

I will also be proud to offer new solutions such as you and Storm are working towards when and if they happen.

Wink

Wink,
We are in same accord now.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/16/2008 12:50:20 PM
Author: Ellen
No way to tell from a pic.


And that''s only part of his ''point''. He''s trying to say ALL diamonds, no matter what the cut, are beautiful. He has said this to me before. And there''s just no way strm, no way.

no way that is not what I am saying.
I am saying however that there are beautiful diamonds well outside of tolk when designed for a specific use.
I bet the diamond that the report belongs to is not like my design and is not nice looking
But it can not be said that all diamonds with those numbers is ugly either.
Which is my point :}

 

[diagem]

Date: 8/16/2008 12:49:38 PM
Author: Wink
Diagem's stone is a round brilliant, yours is a round something else.

Apples/oranges. Different discussion.

Wink

First of all..., what do you mean by DiaGems 's stone??? Please consider others are reading these posts too!

Wink..., Apples and Oranges as per your personal agenda?
What happened..., all of a sudden that ugly duckling has the potential of being a beauty and you jump ship? Dont forget the EGL USA report has no details on the cut except symmetry and polish..., so it could very well be Storms example...

I know..., probably not but could very well be...

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/16/2008 12:51:11 PM
Author: Wink
Yours is certainly pretty from this tilt, just curious, what is tilt angle, how is face up angle and for what size gem is this cut intended?


Your designs are what excite me about Sergey's concept/


Wink

first pic is face up, aset is at 15 degrees.
Its not rocket science I just found a formula for making kicken looking steep/deeps for use as side stones where they are tilted.

That stone would also have a ton of dispersion due to the crown.

edit: size.. any size side stone.. 2ct eternity band? lol

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/16/2008 12:58:37 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 8/16/2008 11:49:54 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 8/16/2008 11:36:12 AM
Author: DiaGem
Sorry Ellen..., still dont see the connection between steep/deep and beauty!
Showing radical examples is the easy way out (always was

)..., but it still doesnt make this specific Diamond not a beautiful one (especially not via papers and numbers!)...

It might be that this Diamond is not to your ''performance'' standards or even ''cut'' standards..., but I guess I still have to learn how to measure performance

..., cut wise..., its all based on personal preference..., and everyone has his/hers own taste!

And thank god we dont live by your book

! I would probably have ended up on a life sentence according to your book

!

That''s because there isn''t much of one.

You want to find this stone beautiful, that''s great. But people should know what they are doing before deeming such a stone beautiful. They should know what an AGS0, or any very well cut stone looks like, to truly compare cut/beauty. And if they don''t know, I think it''s wise to err on the side of caution.


I have bit my tongue more than once with you about rolling the eyes at me. You don''t do that with the men on here, so am I to assume I''m special or something?

Well..., I am happy we got that straight:

It changes your previous writing: ''...And I also don''t recall steep/deeps being referred to as frozen spit. The implication to them being mentioned, is that they are not going to be nearly as bright and beautiful as a stone cut closer to Tolk specs...''

As finding THAT specific stone beautiful...., I said previously that extreme examples are easy to point out too..., and until you view THAT stone with your own eyes you cant describe its beauty!
We also have to mention the fact that a 63% total depth + is too considered a steep/deep combo...

I have never noticed that I differentiated between men and woman..., but you are definitely special..., after all..., it is never boring between us

DiaGem, are you being serious? Do you think I was saying steep/deeps are beautiful? Because I wasn''t, that was a jokey way of saying, there actually is no connection between steep/deeps and beauty (in a modern round brilliant). Nothing''s changed.


And possibly you have been unaware of how you speak to me versus the men, but it has been clearly obvious to me. Hopefully you are now aware of it.

 

[risingsun]

Date: 8/16/2008 12:50:21 PM
Author: Serg

Date: 8/16/2008 12:17:03 PM
Author: risingsun
Ellen''s ''book'' appears to be shared by John, Wink, Paul, and Brian. Sorry if I left anyone out. Sometimes you need a scorecard to know all the players on this type of thread. When I upgraded my diamond to an ACA, my plan was to have it set into my original shared prong setting and use my smaller stone as a pendant. When I received my ACA and compared it to the diamonds in my rings, I was

at the difference in beauty and performance. I had always thought that my rings were well cut and beautiful, but compared to the AGS 0 ACA, there was no comparison. I traded in the whole lot for a new wedding set with all AGS 0 diamonds. Not only did the ACA have the numbers, but it passed the ''eye'' test. If there is something wrong with that, I don''t know what it would be. I''m not a professional and I do need some guidelines and parameters to help me make an informed choice. If I were buying a fancy cut, my approach would be different. I appreciate those professionals who provide timely assistance. For those looking toward the future, education is more helpful than sarcasm

Marian,

You did it, You did comparison , you received first step of real education.
Now you know difference between good and very good diamonds.
You received a lot of positive emotion because your new diamond is better( not only because this diamond is AGS0 ACA, Ideal,..)

Thank you very much for post and experience .

Do you want continue your education or stop it?
Do you prefer what other consumer will receive real education too or just BrainWashing about Ideal( real Ideal) cut?

Consumer education is very important.
I do not think what Brand recognition is consumer education

You received education after you bought diamond? Is it right way? I think consumer should receive education before he buy diamond.

Serg,
I did receive education before I made my purchase. I then had an independent appraiser evaluate the diamond before it was sent on to me. I did my own comparison after I received it. If it didn''t pass my own test of beauty and performance, I would not have kept it. I welcome continuing education about diamonds. As for the "real ideal," I have been to stores which call their diamonds ideal, but don''t have the papers to back it up. I think it''s important that consumers have this knowledge before they venture into buying a diamond. The term ideal has become a generic term that is misused. At least we can educate newcomers about grading reports and give them some peace of mind. No?

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/16/2008 1:01:03 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 8/16/2008 12:50:20 PM
Author: Ellen
No way to tell from a pic.


And that's only part of his 'point'. He's trying to say ALL diamonds, no matter what the cut, are beautiful. He has said this to me before. And there's just no way strm, no way.

no way that is not what I am saying.
I am saying however that there are beautiful diamonds well outside of tolk when designed for a specific use.
I bet the diamond that the report belongs to is not like my design and is not nice looking
But it can not be said that all diamonds with those numbers is ugly either.
Which is my point :}

And to that, I would agree.

I totally get that there can be diamonds with uncoventional numbers that can be beautiful. It's the (imo) preposterous statement that every single diamond, regardless of cut, is going to be beautiful. That is what I (and I imagine almost everyone else here) have a problem with.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/16/2008 1:24:17 PM
Author: risingsun
The term ideal has become a generic term that is misused. At least we can educate newcomers about grading reports and give them some peace of mind. No?

My designs have the potential to be ideal side stones better in some ways than True Ideal for that use. (As Wink pointed out they still need to be cut and verified but the proof is about 80% confidence level)

My side stone designs are ags6-10 are they bad stones?

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 8/16/2008 1:05:08 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 8/16/2008 12:49:38 PM

Author: Wink

Diagem''s stone is a round brilliant, yours is a round something else.


Apples/oranges. Different discussion.


Wink

First of all..., what do you mean by DiaGems ''s stone??? Please consider others are reading these posts too!


Wink..., Apples and Oranges as per your personal agenda?

What happened..., all of a sudden that ugly duckling has the potential of being a beauty and you jump ship? Dont forget the EGL USA report has no details on the cut except symmetry and polish..., so it could very well be Storms example...


I know..., probably not but could very well be...

LOL! I think maybe in your other life you are an attorney or perhaps a Talmudic Scholar. Every thing I say you try to take out of context and confuse me when I know perfectly well what I am trying to say...

I am referring to the stone that you are saying could be beautiful and we will not know until we look. I am saying I do not need to look at that piece of (expletive deleted) to know that I will not like it. I can exclude it very simply on the name round brilliant with those numbers. If it were Storm''s diamond (You know, the one in the example he is sharing with us, not the one he gave to his wife to be) it would NOT be called a round brilliant, even by a lab with as little credibility as EGL Israel.

The Ugly Duckling has no potential of being a beauty, unless of course it is recut to realistic proportions, thus weighing less and actually looking deeper. (For proof of this perhaps Garry will post his picture of an absurdly deep 1ct next to a well cut .80 cut gem that actually looks larger than the 1ct.)

Apples and Oranges as per my agenda? No, Apples and Oranges as per reality. Storm''s beautiful design is not in any way related to the 72% deep round-not-so-brilliant in the example shown above.

Are you willing to do a taste test? Or do you wish to simply move the target and hope no one notices? I say put as many non biased, uneducated never seen a diamond before people as you can find in front of the example stated to be ugly above and one of Paul''s diamonds and see which one is deemed more beautiful. I think you know as well as I do which one the vast majority will pick.

If that is my agenda then I am proud to have it and will stick with it.

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 8/16/2008 1:00:16 PM
Author: Serg

Date: 8/16/2008 12:54:53 PM

Author: Wink

Date: 8/16/2008 12:50:21 PM

Author: Serg


You received education after you bought diamond? Is it right way? I think consumer should receive education before he buy diamond.

I agree and that is what I like to do. It is what John likes to do.


I admit to ''some'' bias as to what I think the education will lead to.


I am proud to do so.


I will also be proud to offer new solutions such as you and Storm are working towards when and if they happen.


Wink

Wink,

We are in same accord now.

Yes, I think we are.

Wink

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/16/2008 1:33:49 PM
Author: Wink
I can exclude it very simply on the name round brilliant with those numbers. If it were Storm''s diamond (You know, the one in the example he is sharing with us, not the one he gave to his wife to be) it would NOT be called a round brilliant, even by a lab with as little credibility as EGL Israel.

Wink

What do you think they would call it?

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 8/16/2008 1:37:54 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 8/16/2008 1:33:49 PM

Author: Wink

I can exclude it very simply on the name round brilliant with those numbers. If it were Storm''s diamond (You know, the one in the example he is sharing with us, not the one he gave to his wife to be) it would NOT be called a round brilliant, even by a lab with as little credibility as EGL Israel.


Wink

What do you think they would call it?

This I do not know. I suspect that they would not call it appropriately, and besides as the designer, you should either have the honor or allow the first purchaser to have the honor.

I wish I could order the first ten carats of melee and design a line of incredible designs around them. If they have the dispersion that you think they will have then I know I will be a fan.

I also know that they will not be AGS 6 - 10''s because the cut grade has not been created for this cut yet. AGS would never use the parameters for round brilliants on these diamonds since they are not RB''s.

I want to see some of these! I want to see if they translate in real life to be visible the dispersion etc. from a small stone. That is what I want to see. I am hoping that you are correct.

Wink

Wink

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/16/2008 1:27:31 PM
Author: Ellen
I totally get that there can be diamonds with uncoventional numbers that can be beautiful. It''s the (imo) preposterous statement that every single diamond, regardless of cut, is going to be beautiful. That is what I (and I imagine almost everyone else here) have a problem with.

To understand DiaGem you have to know his work.
Unfortunately a lot of it cant be posted in public because:
1: that market demands privacy.
2: the risk of theft of the designs.

What I do in DC with unconventional designs he does in diamond at the wheel using experience and a lot of "that looks right" to make beautiful diamonds.

 

[diagem]

Date: 8/16/2008 12:13:18 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 8/16/2008 11:49:54 AM
Author:

And thank god we dont live by your book

! I would probably have ended up on a life sentence according to your book

!

That''s because there isn''t much of one.

You want to find this stone beautiful, that''s great. But people should know what they are doing before deeming such a stone beautiful. They should know what an AGS0, or any very well cut stone looks like, to truly compare cut/beauty. And if they don''t know, I think it''s wise to err on the side of caution.


I have bit my tongue more than once with you about rolling the eyes at me. You don''t do that with the men on here, so am I to assume I''m special or something?

Ditto. And to the eyeroll

. Diagem, I get what you are saying, I really do. Some not so well cut gems can show some beauty certainly. There is room for many different opinions, but I have seen some horribly cut diamonds in my time, and by no stretch of the imagination could those ever be referred to as beautiful or even attractive. Thank goodness there is now education readily available so the consumer can learn and make their own decisions, so they don''t forever end up wondering why their diamond doesn''t sparkle. Hopefully as time goes on and the effect of education spreads, diamonds will be cut to better standards as the client demand increases, once they realize the difference that cut can make, as valued educators such as Ellen emphasize.

And I hope I am one of the many contributors to education out here (otherwise I have been wasting my time here on PS for years as I dont earn any financial fruits from posting here on Price Scope)..., I just dont believe in limited education...
I come from the fancy cut world..., and thank god the Lab''s have not yet succeeded in limiting our creative freedom with their cut grades! God knows they tried and are still trying hard...

I strongly believe that what AGS did for the Princess cuts is 30% good and 70% bad!
The good is: that Princesses are cut neatly these days especially on the pavilion side point and corner area''s as previously many cutters would play with extra facets to finalize the Princess cuts and save extra weight!

The bad part (in my opinion): I dont seem to see any spready and shallow Princess cut out there anymore..., I know Princess cuts can look AMAZING at shallower depths than the 70''s..., the depth of Princess cuts are located mainly in the pavilion areas as they dont incorporate high crown heights as compared to other square or fancy cuts!! True..., their light return is good at these depths because of their pavilion facet structure but the consumer must know they are entitled to purchased awesome shallower Princess cuts..., and so-far I dont see either education on the matter or any actual diamonds for sale.

I agree that education should be for anyones benefit who is willing to spend time learning and I hope I contribute my part (even if it sounds crazy sometimes,,,

)

But the Diamond world is more complicated and/or simplistic than just AGS 0 or GIA EX...

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/16/2008 1:57:31 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 8/16/2008 12:13:18 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 8/16/2008 11:49:54 AM
Author:

And thank god we dont live by your book

! I would probably have ended up on a life sentence according to your book

!

That''s because there isn''t much of one.

You want to find this stone beautiful, that''s great. But people should know what they are doing before deeming such a stone beautiful. They should know what an AGS0, or any very well cut stone looks like, to truly compare cut/beauty. And if they don''t know, I think it''s wise to err on the side of caution.


I have bit my tongue more than once with you about rolling the eyes at me. You don''t do that with the men on here, so am I to assume I''m special or something?

Ditto. And to the eyeroll

. Diagem, I get what you are saying, I really do. Some not so well cut gems can show some beauty certainly. There is room for many different opinions, but I have seen some horribly cut diamonds in my time, and by no stretch of the imagination could those ever be referred to as beautiful or even attractive. Thank goodness there is now education readily available so the consumer can learn and make their own decisions, so they don''t forever end up wondering why their diamond doesn''t sparkle. Hopefully as time goes on and the effect of education spreads, diamonds will be cut to better standards as the client demand increases, once they realize the difference that cut can make, as valued educators such as Ellen emphasize.

And I hope I am one of the many contributors to education out here (otherwise I have been wasting my time here on PS for years as I dont earn any financial fruits from posting here on Price Scope)..., I just dont believe in limited education...

Absolutely your contributions here over such a long time have been very much appreciated and helpful to many, I meant the above in general terms.

 

[Serg]

Date: 8/16/2008 1:24:17 PM
Author: risingsun

Date: 8/16/2008 12:50:21 PM
Author: Serg

Date: 8/16/2008 12:17:03 PM
Author: risingsun
Ellen''s ''book'' appears to be shared by John, Wink, Paul, and Brian. Sorry if I left anyone out. Sometimes you need a scorecard to know all the players on this type of thread. When I upgraded my diamond to an ACA, my plan was to have it set into my original shared prong setting and use my smaller stone as a pendant. When I received my ACA and compared it to the diamonds in my rings, I was

at the difference in beauty and performance. I had always thought that my rings were well cut and beautiful, but compared to the AGS 0 ACA, there was no comparison. I traded in the whole lot for a new wedding set with all AGS 0 diamonds. Not only did the ACA have the numbers, but it passed the ''eye'' test. If there is something wrong with that, I don''t know what it would be. I''m not a professional and I do need some guidelines and parameters to help me make an informed choice. If I were buying a fancy cut, my approach would be different. I appreciate those professionals who provide timely assistance. For those looking toward the future, education is more helpful than sarcasm

Marian,

You did it, You did comparison , you received first step of real education.
Now you know difference between good and very good diamonds.
You received a lot of positive emotion because your new diamond is better( not only because this diamond is AGS0 ACA, Ideal,..)

Thank you very much for post and experience .


Do you want continue your education or stop it?
Do you prefer what other consumer will receive real education too or just BrainWashing about Ideal( real Ideal) cut?

Consumer education is very important.
I do not think what Brand recognition is consumer education

You received education after you bought diamond? Is it right way? I think consumer should receive education before he buy diamond.

Serg,
I did receive education before I made my purchase. I then had an independent appraiser evaluate the diamond before it was sent on to me. I did my own comparison after I received it. If it didn''t pass my own test of beauty and performance, I would not have kept it. I welcome continuing education about diamonds. As for the ''real ideal,'' I have been to stores which call their diamonds ideal, but don''t have the papers to back it up. I think it''s important that consumers have this knowledge before they venture into buying a diamond. The term ideal has become a generic term that is misused. At least we can educate newcomers about grading reports and give them some peace of mind. No?

Marian,

Train course to read grading reports is not education about diamond beauty at all
At least Labs could and should do it.

Who and How will train to Taste diamond beauty?
Who are doing it right now?

There are a lot of sommelier train courses.
Could you give me a link to anything similar for diamonds?

 

[Serg]

re: At least

In good Vine shop you can receive wine-testing course( reasonable cheap) what help you do your choice between Different good wines

In Jewellery shop you can receive diamond test between Ideal and Ugly diamonds only ( or even between two CZ like Garry like do )

During wine-testing you could receive cheese according wine and fresh water to clean( restart) your taste between different vines?

In Vine industry you can visit Vine “manufactures” for best France Chateau at least( I do not know tradition in USA) . You can see All step vine production, you see uniqueness, history this particular Chateau. And then visit next Chateau and compare Vine quality, Vine test.
Vine history
You will receive great service even in Chateau what produce relative cheap vine( 20-50$ per bottle)



You can not receive such education, training , attitude even if you want find and buy 1M cost colorless diamond according your Taste .

 

[risingsun]

Serg,
Are you saying you can't teach others about beauty and taste? I just want to understand your point of view

 

[Serg]

Re: If everything else is equal, I will choose with my eyes, but I have the professional opinions of others, as well as my own to consider

Marian,

Let’s Suggest you are looking two diamonds.

Color and clarity same , your eyes prefer second diamond

Then you ask about Labs reports

First has AGS cut grading report, second has just clarity and color report( Everything is not equal. One diamond is “Real Ideal”, Second has not such sign )

What will your choice? What will you do if

1) Price same?
2) First has bigger price?
3) Second has bigger price ?

P/s Why did you delete your nice post?

 

[risingsun]

Date: 8/16/2008 1:31:45 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 8/16/2008 1:24:17 PM
Author: risingsun
The term ideal has become a generic term that is misused. At least we can educate newcomers about grading reports and give them some peace of mind. No?

My designs have the potential to be ideal side stones better in some ways than True Ideal for that use. (As Wink pointed out they still need to be cut and verified but the proof is about 80% confidence level)

My side stone designs are ags6-10 are they bad stones?

strm~I will defer to Wink on that question

 

[Serg]

Date: 8/16/2008 3:33:50 PM
Author: risingsun
Serg,
Are you saying you can't teach others about beauty and taste? I just want to understand your point of view

Marian,

My point of view.:

Labs did market situation when the consumer education is not profitable more .
If somebody will try do consumer education about Diamond Beauty he needs work against Labs Brands.
It become more and more difficult

Labs is critical part of China Wall between consumer and cutters.
I asked John to do not support this trend( which block innovation, block new cuts,… )

 

[risingsun]

Date: 8/16/2008 3:50:57 PM
Author: Serg

Re: If everything else is equal, I will choose with my eyes, but I have the professional opinions of others, as well as my own to consider

Marian,

Let’s Suggest you are looking two diamonds.

Color and clarity same , your eyes prefer second diamond

Then you ask about Labs reports

First has AGS cut grading report, second has just clarity and color report( Everything is not equal. One diamond is “Real Ideal”, Second has not such sign )

What will your choice? What will you do if

1) Price same?
2) First has bigger price?
3) Second has bigger price ?

P/s Why did you delete your nice post?

I deleted my post because I thought I was getting in over my head

The truth is I would pick the diamond with the AGS paper in all three situations

I know, I know...that makes your point. I have come to believe that AGS is the best lab we have in the USA and it is worth the premium. If you tell me to go sit in the corner, I'll be happy to oblige!

ETA: I didn't see the part of the post that said that my eyes preferred the second diamond!! In that case, I would be conflicted. I would probably go home and think it over and not make a decision on the spot. It would make my choice more difficult. I hope I would choose the diamond my eyes prefer, but it would be a close call.

 

[Serg]

Date: 8/16/2008 4:07:29 PM
Author: risingsun

Date: 8/16/2008 3:50:57 PM
Author: Serg





Re: If everything else is equal, I will choose with my eyes, but I have the professional opinions of others, as well as my own to consider

Marian,

Let’s Suggest you are looking two diamonds.

Color and clarity same , your eyes prefer second diamond

Then you ask about Labs reports

First has AGS cut grading report, second has just clarity and color report( Everything is not equal. One diamond is “Real Ideal”, Second has not such sign )

What will your choice? What will you do if


1) Price same?
2) First has bigger price?
3) Second has bigger price ?

P/s Why did you delete your nice post?

I deleted my post because I thought I was getting in over my head

The truth is I would pick the diamond with the AGS paper in all three situations

I know, I know...that makes your point. I have come to believe that AGS is the best lab we have in the USA and it is worth the premium. If you tell me to go sit in the corner, I'll be happy to oblige!

Marian,

Thank you very much for honest and clear answer.
You helped me a lot to illustrate How deep problem is now.

 

[risingsun]

Serg,
Please read the edited part of my post. I know that it doesn't change things very much. As a consumer, I honestly don't have enough confidence in my own ability to make an educated choice in a diamond without some very clear parameters. What is a clear parameter to me is very different than to you. You already have this knowledge and I'm just learning. I have enjoyed our discussion. I am open to new information.

 

[Serg]

Date: 8/16/2008 4:22:16 PM
Author: risingsun
Serg,
Please read the edited part of my post. I know that it doesn't change things very much. As a consumer, I honestly don't have enough confidence in my own ability to make an educated choice in a diamond without some very clear parameters. What is a clear parameter to me is very different than to you. You already have this knowledge and I'm just learning. I have enjoyed our discussion. I am open to new information.

re:ETA: I didn't see the part of the post that said that my eyes preferred the second diamond!! In that case, I would be conflicted. I would probably go home and think it over and not make a decision on the spot. It would make my choice more difficult. I hope I would choose the diamond my eyes prefer, but it would be a close call.

Marian,

Fine. I will try again

Do you have chance do it if you firstly ask reports?( and then see diamonds)

Do you have any chance now to find what your eyes could prefer except AGS0 ?

Do you enjoy what you have choice only between ASG0 round and ASG0 princess ?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Sergey you make an excellent point

Date: 8/16/2008 2:34:37 PM
Author: Serg

re: At least

In good Vine shop you can receive wine-testing course( reasonable cheap) what help you do your choice between Different good wines

In Jewellery shop you can receive diamond test between Ideal and Ugly diamonds only ( or even between two CZ like Garry like do )

During wine-testing you could receive cheese according wine and fresh water to clean( restart) your taste between different vines?

In Vine industry you can visit Vine “manufactures” for best France Chateau at least( I do not know tradition in USA) . You can see All step vine production, you see uniqueness, history this particular Chateau. And then visit next Chateau and compare Vine quality, Vine test.
Vine history
You will receive great service even in Chateau what produce relative cheap vine( 20-50$ per bottle)




You can not receive such education, training , attitude even if you want find and buy 1M cost colorless diamond according your Taste .

For the record, I do show people asschers and other looks, and we always have BIC''s that have shallow crowns and deeper pavilions - mainly for earrings and pendants, and FIC''s which we set in rings. I take education as far as the customer will let me. When I notice their eyes glaze over, I stop.
And yes, it is all about taste and preference, and I mix stones up and see if people can spot the difference under spots, near window, out in the office etc.

So the wine analogy is good - I like several different types of wines at different times and with different types of food. It is rare that I would only drink one type with a meal. But I usually drink only 2 or 3 glasses in total.

 

[Serg]

Date: 8/16/2008 4:39:10 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Sergey you make an excellent point

Date: 8/16/2008 2:34:37 PM
Author: Serg


re: At least

In good Vine shop you can receive wine-testing course( reasonable cheap) what help you do your choice between Different good wines

In Jewellery shop you can receive diamond test between Ideal and Ugly diamonds only ( or even between two CZ like Garry like do )

During wine-testing you could receive cheese according wine and fresh water to clean( restart) your taste between different vines?

In Vine industry you can visit Vine “manufactures” for best France Chateau at least( I do not know tradition in USA) . You can see All step vine production, you see uniqueness, history this particular Chateau. And then visit next Chateau and compare Vine quality, Vine test.
Vine history
You will receive great service even in Chateau what produce relative cheap vine( 20-50$ per bottle)





You can not receive such education, training , attitude even if you want find and buy 1M cost colorless diamond according your Taste .

For the record, I do show people asschers and other looks, and we always have BIC''s that have shallow crowns and deeper pavilions - mainly for earrings and pendants, and FIC''s which we set in rings. I take education as far as the customer will let me. When I notice their eyes glaze over, I stop.
And yes, it is all about taste and preference, and I mix stones up and see if people can spot the difference under spots, near window, out in the office etc.

So the wine analogy is good - I like several different types of wines at different times and with different types of food. It is rare that I would only drink one type with a meal. But I usually drink only 2 or 3 glasses in total.

re:It is rare that I would only drink one type with a meal. But I usually drink only 2 or 3 glasses in total.

Good morning Garry,
I see you need company.

 

[Stephan]

Date: 8/16/2008 11:47:40 AM
Author: Wink

Some of you may remember that I was once thrown off a now basically dormant board for the egregious sin of being an EightStar dealer when the owner of the board capriciously decided to ban all EightStar dealers for what ever his misguided thinking was.

I don't know about which forum you are talking, but I'll never trust 100% in a forum sponsored by dealers. If a board can afford to ban some dealers, it's certainly because other dealers pay to do that.

 

[WinkHPD]

I have been watching Tivo''d Olympics, no commercials, no background pieces, just the competition. Just watched about 16 hours worth in the last four or so hours, nice.

I have also been thinking.

First, it is very nice to see some consumers in this thread that seem to be getting what I am talking about. I think this is very important. My compliments to Rising Sun, Lorelei, and Ellen for their contributions.

One comment about the miscommunication above with Rising sun. Don''t get too flustered over missing a beat in the reading. It is complex, especially when reading the language of one who has English for a second or third language. Also, always go with your eyes, the paper is for confirmation of color and clarity, and to give you an idea what to expect when you finally see the diamond. If you come to see me and tell me you want to look at a stone, I will nearly always have four or five to show you, and they will be shown to you without telling you anything about color or clarity so that you let your eyes, not the paper do the talking.

Wink