our own John Pollard in a AGS podcast advertisement

[strmrdr]

http://www.agslab.com/news_podcasts.html

Click on the real ideal.

Good job John!

Not that I agree with what you said 100% but its nice!

 

[Maisie]

It doesn''t work for me. I click on the ''Real Ideal'' but it says cannot display the page.

 

[Serg]

Date: 8/13/2008 4:45:41 PM
Author:strmrdr
http://www.agslab.com/news_podcasts.html

Click on the real ideal.

Good job John!

Not that I agree with what you said 100% but its nice!

Finally we came to "Real Ideal". Too sad. with my great respect to John, Why do diamond professionals do so many to destroy consumer confidence?
what is next? Real Real Ideal, True Ideal, Best Ideal,...???????
for my opinion "ASG Ideal" is more adequate if Real Ideal could be only diamond with ASG cut grade report. Real Ideal definition-Brand will just more confuse consumers




http://idcc2.octonus.com/goal.phtml
"One obstacle is brand slogans such as "the most Ideal (Brilliant, Fiery,...) diamond ever". These claims serve only to diminish competing brand statements, leading to confusion and resentment on the part of consumers. In fact, anyone who now creates a new global brand tries to diminish consumer confidence in existing ones. This leads to a self-destructive spiral, which may be likened to Uroboros, the ancient symbol depicting a dragon swallowing its own tail. "

 

[John P]

Thanks Strm.

On PS this information reads like Cliff''s Notes. The target audience is the "average" consumer with no resource like Pricescope, and the message is that the term "ideal" - as employed by AGS - implies a strict benchmark, but that term has become much-abused by commercial sellers. Many shoppers are shocked to hear that "ideal" (not to mention color and clarity grading) is unregulated. In the past month this podcast has reached the ears of many new shoppers.

Not that I agree with what you said 100% but its nice!

Thanks and I hope it''s positive information. We appreciate Donna Jolly and the AGS for inviting us to speak for them on this topic.

 

[Maisie]

Ok, I switched computers and managed to hear the podcast.

John has such a lovely voice

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/13/2008 5:16:59 PM
Author: Serg

Date: 8/13/2008 4:45:41 PM

Author:strmrdr

http://www.agslab.com/news_podcasts.html


Click on the real ideal.


Good job John!

Not that I agree with what you said 100% but its nice!

Finally we came to ''Real Ideal''. Too sad. with my great respect to John, Why do diamond professionals do so many to destroy consumer confidence?

what is next? Real Real Ideal, True Ideal, Best Ideal,...???????

for my opinion ''ASG Ideal'' is more adequate if Real Ideal could be only diamond with ASG cut grade report. Real Ideal definition-Brand will just more confuse consumers






http://idcc2.octonus.com/goal.phtml

''One obstacle is brand slogans such as ''the most Ideal (Brilliant, Fiery,...) diamond ever''. These claims serve only to diminish competing brand statements, leading to confusion and resentment on the part of consumers. In fact, anyone who now creates a new global brand tries to diminish consumer confidence in existing ones. This leads to a self-destructive spiral, which may be likened to Uroboros, the ancient symbol depicting a dragon swallowing its own tail. ''

I feel the same way and if the same words were posted here on PS in a post we would have a long discussion.
I debated posting it for that reason.
But on the other hand I''m exited for John to be featured on it which is why I posted it.

I did clearly label it as advertising and hope it is seen that way.
For a much more balanced discussion there are lots of threads on the success and failures of cut grading systems here on PS.

 

[John P]

Sorry Serg, but I disagree.

You are not in US malls and chain stores every day. I am.

If you were in retail stores, hearing what most consumers are told by salespeople, you would welcome information that helps them purchase better cut quality.

I understand your "big picture" point of view, and support it, but it does not help the "little person" today. Shopping now. Spending money now. Their money is better-spent on a diamond that has earned AGS0 (or many GIA EX combinations) than on the steep/deep piece of frozen spit that some toothy salesman in a mall chain store tells them is "ideal." This is happening now to consumers.

Please read again:

Date: 8/13/2008 5:24:49 PM
Author: John Pollard

On PS this information reads like Cliff's Notes. The target audience is the 'average' consumer with no resource like Pricescope, and the message is that the term 'ideal' - as employed by AGS - implies a strict benchmark, but that term has become much-abused by commercial sellers. Many shoppers are shocked to hear that 'ideal' (not to mention color and clarity grading) is unregulated. In the past month this podcast has reached the ears of many new shoppers.

If you have a solution to help shoppers preparing to buy terribly cut commercial goods today please let me know. If you don't I think those steered towards the best cut grading system(s) we currently have in major markets will be thankful.

 

[strmrdr]

John what really bugs me is that in the US indoor lighting is changing mandated by law at a very fast rate.
That will bring a change in diamond design I guarantee it.
Last time it happened it was a gradual transfer both in how the technology moved around the world and in how diamond cut changed.
This transition is much faster.
My fear is that diamond design will get locked into what works today not what works tomorrow by the cut grading systems.

 

[Serg]

John,

I understand this problem. This problem has very deep roots. Simple solution like “Real Ideal” can not fix this deep problem. It could give local temporally improvement, but situation will even worse a soon and industry should will pay much more price
Industry are losing prestige and time. You are spending very important resource( time) in False direction. Cost of mistake is bigger and bigger each year. Finally we could lost Diamond Industry like Luxury industry at all.

 

[Serg]

re:but it does not help the "little person" today. Shopping now. Spending money now.

We need stop work just for "Today", Time to think about future if we want save loose diamond( natural diamonds) market.

 

[Serg]

.

 

[Maisie]

I suppose I am one of the ''little people'' where diamonds are concerned. I find it difficult to understand the numbers and what they mean. I find it easier if someone has done that work for me already. Which is why I would buy a diamond graded by a big lab as ''ideal''.

Are other labs using the same strict grading criteria as AGS? GIA use the term ''excellent''... is their grading as strict as AGS?

When I looked at diamonds online the other day I saw the term ''ideal'' but when I put the numbers through the HCA it came out as a 3.6. Does this mean their ''ideal'' and the AGS term ''ideal'' are very different?

Who are we supposed to trust if we are buying unseen off the internet? I know most of us want the best, most sparkly and brilliant diamond our money can buy.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/13/2008 6:02:47 PM
Author: Maisie
I suppose I am one of the 'little people' where diamonds are concerned. I find it difficult to understand the numbers and what they mean. I find it easier if someone has done that work for me already. Which is why I would buy a diamond graded by a big lab as 'ideal'.

Are other labs using the same strict grading criteria as AGS? GIA use the term 'excellent'... is their grading as strict as AGS? Not for cut grading but the HCA and an ideal-scope image fixes that

When I looked at diamonds online the other day I saw the term 'ideal' but when I put the numbers through the HCA it came out as a 3.6. Does this mean their 'ideal' and the AGS term 'ideal' are very different? That is the issue John is addressing and it is a valid concern

Who are we supposed to trust if we are buying unseen off the internet? I know most of us want the best, most sparkly and brilliant diamond our money can buy. Combination of technologies, no one system has all the answers.
Or find a vendor who can pass the PS test and you feel you can trust and go with what they recommend OR post here asking for help and evaluate the responses based on who you feel you can trust.
Better yet combine all 3.

 

[John P]

Date: 8/13/2008 6:02:47 PM
Author: Maisie

I suppose I am one of the 'little people' where diamonds are concerned. I find it difficult to understand the numbers and what they mean. I find it easier if someone has done that work for me already. Which is why I would buy a diamond graded by a big lab as 'ideal'.

Are other labs using the same strict grading criteria as AGS? GIA use the term 'excellent'... is their grading as strict as AGS?

No, and the intent of the Podcast is to help consumers with no access to PS. Routinely they are told "this diamond is ideal" - piggybacking on that term but selling, frankly, a completely fraudulent ideal.

People are getting slaughtered out there. Something I told myself I would do it always keep a foot on the consumer side of the counter (where I came from). Consumers are being duped in stores by abuse of the term "ideal" every day. I see it. It's rampant, and...until some globally accepted lab/grading system/grand poo-bah comes along and everyone agrees on new standards...the AGS is doing the best job of consumer protection in a cut-quality sense, particularly with round and princess cuts. GIA does a good job of color/clarity and a lot of rounds are tops, but manufacturers are learning to cut to the steep/deep end of EX.

My rationale: If the Podcast prevents even one person from getting duped into some heart shape with G symmetry and VG polish being passed off as an "ideal" cut - it has served its purpose. If the Podcast gets 10 people to be aware that the term is being abused it has served its purpose 10X over. If the Podcast gets 100 people to research AGS/GIA etc...and find Pricescope it is very well worth the effort we put into it.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I think John and Sergey are both right.
John is in business here today
Sergey we need to find a solution faster for tomorrow.

I know John agrees with you on the under lying iceberg.

It is so lonely however as organistions like AGS and other labs seem not to notice and continue to work on todays problems.


What did Einstein say? - you cant solve todays problems with the same thinking that created them -or words to that effect

 

[John P]

Strm's post is good.

Date: 8/13/2008 6:02:47 PM
Author: Maisie

When I looked at diamonds online the other day I saw the term 'ideal' but when I put the numbers through the HCA it came out as a 3.6. Does this mean their 'ideal' and the AGS term 'ideal' are very different?

Absolutely. In fact, Google "ideal diamond" and read the first three pages of links. You will find literally dozens of misconceptions, conflicting statements and out-and-out falsehoods.

>

Here are some screen shots I cobbled-together. Bear in mind the misinformation is even more rampant on the street.

This seller boasts Emeralds of "Ideal" cut quality, but these diamonds are GIA-graded, meaning they have not passed through ANY performance assessment at the lab.

 

[John P]

The same seller states that AGSL and GIA cut grades are "equivalent." This is not true; and it erroneously implies that these "Ideal" GIA Emeralds have been through the same light performance measures as AGSL diamonds when, in fact, there was no performance measure done at GIA.

(screen shot)

 

[Maisie]

I definitely understand your concerns. I am fortunate that I found Pricescope before I paid any money out on a diamond. I feel sad for the men who will go to their local B&M jeweller, hard earned cash in hand. They will be looking for the absolute best that they can find and when they see the term ''ideal'' they will think that is the only thing their girl deserves. Unfortunately it probably won''t have the standards the AGS have set, and therefore isn''t Ideal at all.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 8/13/2008 5:49:44 PM
Author: Serg
re:but it does not help the ''little person'' today. Shopping now. Spending money now.

We need stop work just for ''Today'', Time to think about future if we want save loose diamond( natural diamonds) market.

Sergey,

I truly do not agree with you that the sky is falling the sky is falling.

Changes may come, but they will not destroy the market. If cuts need to be changed to maximize light in the new lighting that is coming then that will happen too.

I have all fluorescent lamps in place of my incandescent lights at home, in the same fixtures that the incandescent lamps used. If these are the future then no problems with the current cuts, they DAZZLE in my lights at home.

I prefer John''s approach to help consumers both now, and in the future. I, like he, see every day the CRAP and WORSE that is being sold in the mall stores today and John is 100%, WE MUST DO SOMETHING NOW, and the more we do the better!

Wink

 

[Allison D.]

Exceptional job on the podcast, John.

 

[John P]

The information here says "Ideal" diamonds in fancy shapes can have polish & sym grades of VG, EX, ID.

That is already diluting the standard AGS set, permitting only the highest finish, but that''s not too extreme. What follows is more of a concern.

(screen shot)

 

[John P]

Same source. View the "Ideal" Marquise shapes listed. Select the E SI2...

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/13/2008 6:44:50 PM
Author: John Pollard
The information here says 'Ideal' diamonds in fancy shapes can have polish & sym grades of VG, EX, ID.


That is already diluting the standard AGS set, permitting only the highest finish, but that's not too extreme. What follows is more of a concern.


(screen shot)

AGS caused that problem by not using a trademarkable term for marketing reasons.
that is a pretty good example of having not considered the future.

 

[John P]

Polish is ''Good.'' Not VG, EX or Ideal (supposedly the standard here), and extremely far from the often-presumed AGS standard.

 

[John P]

Date: 8/13/2008 6:47:39 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 8/13/2008 6:44:50 PM
Author: John Pollard
The information here says ''Ideal'' diamonds in fancy shapes can have polish & sym grades of VG, EX, ID.

That is already diluting the standard AGS set, permitting only the highest finish, but that''s not too extreme. What follows is more of a concern.

AGS caused that problem by not using a trademarkable term for marketing reasons.

And is trying to correct things through education, like this Podcast.

 

[John P]

I said above "If the Podcast prevents even one person from getting duped into some heart shape with G symmetry and VG polish being passed off as an "ideal" cut - it has served its purpose."

Here is that example: "Ideal" heart shapes. Select the 2.79 (see the next post)

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/13/2008 6:49:03 PM
Author: John Pollard

Date: 8/13/2008 6:47:39 PM

Author: strmrdr

Date: 8/13/2008 6:44:50 PM

Author: John Pollard

The information here says ''Ideal'' diamonds in fancy shapes can have polish & sym grades of VG, EX, ID.


That is already diluting the standard AGS set, permitting only the highest finish, but that''s not too extreme. What follows is more of a concern.

AGS caused that problem by not using a trademarkable term for marketing reasons.

And is trying to correct things through education, like this Podcast.

ok

 

[John P]

The 2.79 G SI2 from that "Ideal" list.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/13/2008 6:43:10 PM
Author: Wink


I have all fluorescent lamps in place of my incandescent lights at home, in the same fixtures that the incandescent lamps used. If these are the future then no problems with the current cuts, they DAZZLE in my lights at home.


Wink

If they are over 9months to a year old they aren''t current and they will change again as the mercury is removed.
The old designs could trigger seizures in some people.
Today''s CFT is just the tip of the iceberg.
Every 6 months expect them to change.
LEDsheet lighting is the next up where in effect the entire ceiling or wall or a large part of it becomes a light bulb.

 

[John P]

Date: 8/13/2008 6:29:25 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

I think John and Sergey are both right.
John is in business here today
Sergey we need to find a solution faster for tomorrow.

I know John agrees with you on the under lying iceberg.

Garry, take off that peacemaker hat. I didn''t recognize you.

I think we''re both right too. I appreciate the iceberg warning but I''m concerned with the consumers being eaten by sharks today.

The target audience is shoppers out-and-about who are running into sellers trying to convince them that fluorescence is bad, good polish/sym means top cut in a fancy shape, D-VVS will be ''most sparkly'' and there''s swampland that comes free with every diamond purchase.