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Need help with metal selection

tyty333

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Hi all,
I am going to have my pear reset into a DK design based on this picture...


My current setting is in platinum but I think what I want is a light gold/yellow metal for the shank then white gold for the basket.
I was thinking that an unplated white gold for the shank might get me what I was looking for, but when I went and looked at pictures, it
just wasn't yellow/gold enough.

This ring is an Ericka Winters ring. It is the closest to the color of yellow/gold that I want but I would like even lighter yellow. It is 18 karat yellow gold with a satin finish.



Does anyone have an idea of how to get the color I'm looking for? What karat with what alloys? Any suggestions?
Thanks,
tyty333

pear_inspiration_from_dk.png

erika-winters-fine-jewelry-wedding-band-liv-0694.jpg
 

telephone89

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I would think unplated would be just perfect. A quick google search comes up with this thread [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/diamond-color-and-metal-options.191295/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/diamond-color-and-metal-options.191295/[/URL]

Also more here: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/yoo-hoo-yssie-metal-question-for-you.192990/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/yoo-hoo-yssie-metal-question-for-you.192990/[/URL]
Yssie|1374279022|3486495 said:
Oh Rosebloom I'll never tire of this topic, I don't think ::) I took this today and thought it was pretty nifty, and wanted to post it here.

The five middle rings are all 18k-WG (unplated). I white-balanced with an 18% grey card and I think the differences are very true to life:

metals_yssie_1.png

A - PT950/Ru

B - 18k (custom piece) from DBL, exact composition: "Palladium-WG" - don't know exact alloy

C - 18k WG (custom piece) from RDG, exact composition: [75% Fine Gold] [17% Palladium] [5% Pure Silver] [3% Platinum]
In-person the RDG alloy (C) looks slightly warmer than (B)

D - 18k WG (stock piece) from e-wb, exact composition: ?

E - 18k WG (custom piece) from WF, exact composition: [75%AU] [9.8%CU] [9.8%NI] [5.22%ZN]

F - 18k WG (custom piece) from e-wb, exact composition: [75%AU] [16.5%CU] [4%NI] [4.5%ZN]
In-person (F) is slightly yellower and pinker than (E), especially under fluorescents

G - 14k YG
 

starrylight

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I believe DK's unplated white gold is not very yellow. I believe there was a poster who sold their ring after being unsatisfied with the color.
 

ringo865

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Tyty333, I love that setting and have seen variations of it all over the interwebs. Is that specific picture one of DK's or the inspiration piece? I have a new diamond to set and love that design. I also can't decide on yg/pt or rg/pt. Most of my current rings are implanted wg. But I don't see being able to stack bands with this setting. Let us know how this progresses and CONGRATS on your extra bling fund!!
 

Bling it on

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DK uses a palladium alloy for his white gold and it is pretty white. My gorgeous 5 stone band is in a DK custom setting and you can tell the difference between the brightness of rhodium plated white gold and his unplated white gold but it's certainly not a creamy whellow that you might be looking for. I wonder if he can use another alloy of white gold for you? No harm in asking
 

tyty333

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Thank you telephone89...I think I saw that but didnt realize they were unplated. I want a color in the D/E range (I think).

Starrylight...I havent talk to DK yet about what he has available. I will be sad to find what I want but have him not use it ;( .

Ringo865...that is a DK piece. I think it belongs to a PS member now that I think about it but I dont know who. Sorry I cant
give someone credit for their beautiful ring. If you are still on PS, give us a shout out! BTW Ringo, I found in on pinterest.
David Klass has a few boards on their where he post his work. Lots of pretty things!

Bling it on...thank you. That's good to know that his unplated white gold is fairly white and not more yellow or whellow as you
put it. :lol: I'm really looking for whellow!

I guess I need to talk to DK and find out what is available before I get my hopes up.
 

marymm

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Are you going with high-polish finish or something matte / satin / brushed? Because I do think even the YG featured in your 1st inspiration photo would be closer to your desired color if it was a matte/similar finish...

If you want high-polish finish, then I think perhaps 14kt YG would be the light gold you're looking for.
 

tyty333

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marymm|1451512132|3968634 said:
Are you going with high-polish finish or something matte / satin / brushed? Because I do think even the YG featured in your 1st inspiration photo would be closer to your desired color if it was a matte/similar finish...

If you want high-polish finish, then I think perhaps 14kt YG would be the light gold you're looking for.

I am planning on going with a satin finish. So you think a satin finish on 18 yellow gold wont be too yellowy? I wish I could
see some in person. :(
 

tyty333

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Here is another picture of the tone of yellow that I like...not sure what it is though. I do want a more satin finish then these though.
(This finish looks a little rougher than I want.)

this_yellow_gold.jpg
 

Bonfire

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I love that DK setting! Your pear will look lovely in it, can't wait to see!
 

FightGravity

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That last photo looks like 10kt (yellow) gold to me. I have an old family ring that is 10kt and it looks very similar.

I would guess regular 18k nickel wg (not the stuller X1, which is nickel but somehow very white?) will be a little whiter than that, and 14kt yellow gold will be a little yellower. I would call 14kt yellow gold clearly yellow, though, not just "warm."
 

SparklySoprano

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I absolutely can not wait until your ring is completed. I'm loving the pear shape these days, and the color you are going for, plus with David Klass doing it.... yowza!!! Is it almost a buttery yellow color maybe that you looking for? I saw some creamy whipped butter today and it almost looked white, but was a very pale yellow. I'm not sure how that would be made metal-wise, but I sure hope you get what you're looking for because it sounds divine!
 

MissGotRocks

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I'm thinking that 14 kt. gold might be more your preference - it doesn't seems as 'golden' as 18 kt. gold.

I too will be very interested in seeing your new ring - I'm sure it will be beautiful!
 

yssie

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I think for the colour it sounds like you want 14k YG might be the best bet: unplated WG is my personal delight but it's hard to colour-match, even within the same karat. In my post from that older thread all five bands in the middle are unplated 18k WG of different alloys.


But I also wanted to ask if you'd reached out to Burdeen's in Chicago? You probably remember that that design isn't Klass' - Burdeen's made the original for Haven several years ago, and has since made several other variants on the style. As they created the original piece they would certainly be the best resource re. adjustments, and I believe they also chose Haven's alloy to suit the aesthetic so you'll have confidence that "painting with metal" is something they're already familiar with and prepared to pursue. They're wonderfully helpful - I reached out to Matt a couple of years ago about a project that wound up not moving forward, but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them!

Linky to Haven's beauty for anyone who hasn't seen it - no other vendor could hope to eclipse a Burdeen's original creation in this style :love:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/its-here-its-here-my-2-30-ct-omb-antique-cushion-upgrade.158760/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/its-here-its-here-my-2-30-ct-omb-antique-cushion-upgrade.158760/[/URL]
 

Bonfire

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Thanks for the correction Yssie! I incorrectly thought it was a DK setting, oops.
 

tyty333

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I love that DK setting! Your pear will look lovely in it, can't wait to see!

Thank you Bonfire! It's a little scary trying to put a pear shape into a setting made for a different shape. I can quite picture
it in my head. Looking forward to cads!

That last photo looks like 10kt (yellow) gold to me. I have an old family ring that is 10kt and it looks very similar.

I would guess regular 18k nickel wg (not the stuller X1, which is nickel but somehow very white?) will be a little whiter than that, and 14kt yellow gold will be a little yellower. I would call 14kt yellow gold clearly yellow, though, not just "warm."

I have a 10k yellow ring but it looks a little coppery to me. I never thought this metal thing could be so HARD. :wall: Thanks for
your input FightGravity!

Yes, SparklySoprano...I am looking for buttery yellow! In my mind that's the color I like but not sure how the whole setting will
look in it. I don't want it to look casual. I want it to look sort of old world and rich (not as in money rich, but as in interesting).
Not sure "rich" is the right term. I want it to be interesting with different textures.

I'm thinking that 14 kt. gold might be more your preference - it doesn't seems as 'golden' as 18 kt. gold.

I too will be very interested in seeing your new ring - I'm sure it will be beautiful!

Thanks for your input MissGotRocks. I was sort of thinking this also but I have seen various colors of 14k. Some I like, and some
are just ok and not really what I'm looking for. :(( I need to talk to David and see what kind of 14k gold he uses.

Yessie...I did not realize that was Haven's ring! I knew it was familiar but could not pin-point it. It's hard when you find things on
pinterest (I guess I could have tried an image type search). I have not reached out to anyone except for David Klass. I guess it
would not hurt to give Burdeens a call and see what they have to say. I looked up their website and it does look like they do a variety
of styles with some interesting metal combinations.

Those metal threads where you added pictures and alloys are very informative. I have added those 2 threads to the "Helpful Threads Archive" thread for future reference. I never thought I would be so anal about this but, I think I've reached a new high! :)
 

yssie

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Bonfire no worries and no ire intended!! I think many PSers know that I'm just very very very particular about crediting designs to the original jewellers when I can - for exactly that reason actually! What I mean is... we all know that it takes time, money, and vision to create a piece or style sufficiently new to be considered "original", and I hate to see other vendors reproduce those pieces and get credited for coming up with them :(sad I do feel very strongly that the original designer should get the credit for his/her designs - but as the end-consumer, if you've personally only seen the repro, well, how on earth are you supposed to know if it never comes up? ::)

Burdeen's had a blog a while back - I'm not sure if they still maintain it, but I remember that several months after Haven posted her piece another client (not a PSer) commissioned them to make an entire set of sterling flatware... And OMG I was in love, lust, and everything in between!! :sun:


tyty I'm glad they were helpful!! I LOVE unplated WG - the colour variation between alloys and karats is part of what makes it so attractive to me. Those colour variations are a complete PITA to work around when you're looking for something very specific! But... It might also be a way to get *exactly* what you want...

I think I know what you mean re. "rich". I think that textured finishes - matte, brushed, "aged" - tend to make the metal look softer and warmer than high-polish. I also personally think a piece with a non-high-polish finish will look more faded (more grey) than the another highly-polished piece made of the same metal - and my brain equates "faded" with "rich". That might just be me though :bigsmile:

So - getting back to the point - I'm thinking that a slightly warmer, yellower metal than your ideal might turn into your goal with a matte/textured (non-high-polish) finish, which is why I leaned toward 14k YG originally. Ideally your jeweller could photograph/skype with you and show you some metal samples with different textures so you can see and choose yourself ::)

Some more thoughts... I know that a few jewellers prefer not to work in WG, especially nickel alloys (which are the warmer, yellower alloys), because they're more brittle and can be tough to colour-match with solder. Burdeen's handforged Haven's in RG which takes the cake for brittle so my guess is that they'd be one of the vendors much more likely to be willing, though I couldn't say for sure. I would recommend being somewhat wary of vendors who don't bring it up at all, or who don't think hand forging/finishing in nickel-WG will be any more difficult than plat/YG or who aren't charging you more for it... They probably either don't know or don't care, neither of which bodes well for the project :-o

The other thing many vendors have warned me about (they by no means meant it as a turn off - just an FYI) is that textured non-high-polish finishes tend to show scratches more than high-polish finishes, so if you're debating having multiple textures polishing the parts of the ring that get the most abuse is one possible workaround.

Would you want the entire piece in the same texture? The entire piece in the same metal? LOL... You're in good company, welcome to the persnicketers club :bigsmile:
 

Laila619

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tyty333|1451573830|3968898 said:
Yessie...I did not realize that was Haven's ring! I knew it was familiar but could not pin-point it. It's hard when you find things on
pinterest (I guess I could have tried an image type search). I have not reached out to anyone except for David Klass. I guess it
would not hurt to give Burdeens a call and see what they have to say.

Tyty, it's not actually Haven's ring. Similar style though, but there are a few differences.
 

tyty333

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Laila619|1451657805|3969242 said:
tyty333|1451573830|3968898 said:
Yessie...I did not realize that was Haven's ring! I knew it was familiar but could not pin-point it. It's hard when you find things on
pinterest (I guess I could have tried an image type search). I have not reached out to anyone except for David Klass. I guess it
would not hurt to give Burdeens a call and see what they have to say.

Tyty, it's not actually Haven's ring. Similar style though, but there are a few differences.

Thanks Laila619...I went back to pinterest and figured out that it wasn't Haven's but most likely a design based on her ring.
 

tyty333

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diamondseeker2006|1451660727|3969251 said:
!4k yellow gold. And stick with DK.

Thanks DS...I've thought about it some more and I figured if I got some weird color gold, which I might love, that I would never
have the chance of matching it again (with a possible wedding band) so the conclusion was to stick with a more "standard" 14 or 18k
gold. Now as I've seen from Yessie's helpful post that there is no "standard" :wall: .

Right now I am thinking 14k yellow gold with unplated white gold basket. Down the road I might want to do a wedding band in
white gold but not sure if I'm tittering on the edge of just too much color/texture. I'm using ideas that I like but not sure if it's
going to create a lovely ring with character, or a Frankenstein ring. :shock:

I'll appreciate everyone's input to make sure I don't go over the edge!
 

tyty333

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Thank you Yessie for your input. I am thinking 14k yellow gold with satin finish for the shank/scrolls. I want a thick rail on the
basket that I would like engraved, or heavily milgrained if it's too small for engraving. I would like that basket
area to be done in unplated white gold. It's not a "true" basket but I don't know what else to call it.

Please see my "Frankenstiein" worries above. Please PS, dont let me create a Frankenstein ring.
 

redwood66

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Hi tyty! I am excited to see your ring finished. As DS said, I would stick with David for your ring. If you have a particular color of metal that you want and show him pictures of it, he can create that for you. He will also keep your records so when you want to have the band made he can call that up. When you do, you will want to remind him of course as he is very busy doing many things and rings for PSers (LOL) which is only part of his business. I did find out from him that he automatically high pressure enhances his rose gold and platinum pieces as they are more porous when cast. He may offer this service for other colors as well, so you could ask. The inspiration pic you posted is of a round stone I think? Have you talked with him as to how the style will translate to a pear stone? This will take some reconfiguring to ensure you like it and he is willing to take as long as it takes to make sure you are happy. As someone who has many of his pieces, I am speaking with experience of his work and class - pun intended. :angel: He has many benches of all levels of expertise available to him and I advise you to be specific on what you want. Some of these benches are the same ones used by other PS loved, expensive vendors.

As far as the basket, it is delicate and making the horizontal bar portion thicker to allow engraving might throw off the whole look. David will not design a Frankenstein ring unless that is what you ask for of course. :bigsmile: He will make suggestions to you and help you if you are undecided. I did have a similar, but nothing like it, two tone ring with leaves instead of scrolls that David made and I loved the 18k unplated white gold for the head. It was warmer but not yellow. You can find it on his pinterest page in the solitaire section. It was 18k rose and white.

Hope this helps and I am very excited for you!
 

tyty333

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Hey redwood...thank you for the info. I have not gotten a response back from him since I told him that I would like for him to
do the project. It's the holidays...I'm sure he needs a break! I will try again on Monday the 4th when I think most people will
be back at work.

So I was just going to post this hand drawn picture of what I think the side view of the ring would look. It is an 8x6 mm, 1.08 pear
and I'm not sure how that is going to translate from the rather large cushion to a much smaller pear. I did send him pictures and told
him what I wanted on the bar but he may not have actually taken everything into consideration yet.



Any and all comments are welcome!

small_clipped_side_view.jpg
 

redwood66

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You are most welcome. He has been very busy and sometimes takes a couple days to get back to you. Be sure you are emailing him through the email on the FB page as he changed it in the last 6 months.

I like your idea with the scrolls and the head could be done that way. The inspiration ring horizontal bar is wider from above view and thin from the profile view. You can change it to however you like though. I love engraving on a piece. He will have a CAD to show you and do not be afraid to make suggestions for changes. He wants you to have what you want and will always make it right.
 

yssie

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Tyty I'm confident you'd be just fine with 14k or 18k YG, in terms of future colour matching!! And as I mentioned I lean toward 14k YG as well - I think the colour will "fade" to your goal once the surface is textured. It's only WG that I've had problems matching, and I imagine that's because it's usually plated so very few care what colour it actually is. As long as your vendor keeps a record of the precise alloys used (And I recommend getting records of the alloys of all metals used, including any YG) you always have a guarantee that the correct colour(s) can be reformulated.

Redwood, DS, I recommended reaching out to Burdeen's because they created the original design. I will always recommend going to the original designer first, because the creator will always have the most evolved vision for aesthetic alterations to his/her design. And their workmanship is absolutely top-of-the-line - on that topic I speak frankly from having inspected pieces from both vendors in question in-person.
Burdeen's is quite likely pricier than Klass, though, although they cast and hand-forge and I don't know what their casting prices are like... All in all it comes down to the consumer's priorities, and from tyty's perspective there are no wrong answers: Klass has certainly proven capable of delivering, at unbeatable cost, projects brought to him either clearly-wrought prior or requiring soliciting of lots of customer input rather than vendor artistry throughout the process, and by all accounts with very good customer service along the way. Burdeen's customer service is also excellent and they are much more able to provide artistic direction, and their workmanship is superior, but their pricing is likely higher.
 

yssie

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Tyty the basket will need to be quite thick/wide to have enough room for engraving - are you okay with the extra thickness?
 

redwood66

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tyty - we all have our favorites and it comes down to what you want and what jeweler you are comfortable working with. Both that have been named are capable of creating a lovely ring for you. I am always very excited for anyone's new piece. Please keep sharing your journey!
 

tyty333

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Hi Yssie...I actually did reach out to Burdeen's. I spoke with a really lovely lady and would love to go with them. Unfortunately,
they are out of my rather low budget. Let me say the price was in no way outrageously high, it was actually fairly normal for
custom work so I would also encourage others to reach out to them.

I dont know how thin the basket can be and still be engrave-able . I dont want the proportions to look off. I dont think
I will be able to know until I see CADs or get David's opinion. I hope it can be done because I feel like that part of the
design gives it interest.


Redwood...I think I saw your "vine" ring. Very pretty and unique. Can you tell me the mm of the stone? Helps to give me an
idea of the proportions.

I looked through David's pinterest pins to see if I could find a smaller stone in a basket with horizontal bars and could not find any
small ones. They were all rather large stones ;( . Does not bode well...
 

redwood66

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tyty - It was an 8mm. David and I designed the ring from scratch but using a basket design similar to another ring I had seen. It only makes sense since we see PSers custom designs here from David that customer input would be involved. There are many original and artistic designs created by his team and posted elsewhere on the interweb. And in the voice of Forrest Gump - that's all I have to say about that.
 
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