Lab grown diamonds will make good natural diamonds way more expensive

[nala]

Just skimming this thread, I want to express my opinion on something. I can see a purpose for LGD as well as mined. If I were 22 getting married right out of college with no money, would I rather have a high color/clarity 1 ct lgd, a low color/clarity 1 ct mined diamond, or a nice quality .5 ct mined diamond? I will tell you that I easily would choose the lgd because quality matters to me and a .5 is just way too small for me. So in that scenario, the lab stone would win. And I do think many young couples will make that choice once well cut lab stones are more accessible and known. What a lgd would do for me is allow me to have higher color, clarity, and size than I might be willing to pay for in a mined stone. I am waiting for prices to go down, however.

Also, the only comment anyone has ever said toward a ring I am wearing is, "Oh, your ring is beautiful!" My reply is, "Thank you so much!". I do not give any other information. I have zero obligation to say, "Thank you...it's a naturally mined diamond" or "Thank you...it's a lab grown diamond". A diamond is a diamond, period. I do not wear czs because those are fake. Lab grown diamonds are not fake, and I don't believe anyone has any obligation to give that information other than posting on PS which requires lab grown to only be posted in this subforum.

I didn't know a PSer bought Yoram's Octavia lgd! She needs to post it here! I can't think of who it might be.

It would be very convenient to let everyone assume all diamonds are the same. And to an extent, I get that no one out there is really asking you and they will make that assumption regardless. But to assert there is no difference—why would GIA distinguish? In fact, they brand them. Kind of like the way designers brand their jewelry. Let’s say VCA— you can buy the exact same piece made of the same exact materials if you hire a talented artist to do it—the only difference would be the source and origin. Should people refer to that replica as a VCA? Or by its proper name, a replica? Source and origins of LGDs are different than mined. Therefore, different. And when people come in this forum to assert they are the same—that is where my disagreement comes in—bc we know better.

 

[SallyBrown]

Cubic zirconia is cubic zirconia. It is not fake!

If I wear a CZ or a moissanite or a MMD ring, and someone say : " Your ring is beautiful", I will reply :" Thank you!"

If he says : Your diamond ring is beautiful" , I will reply "Thank you! But this is a CZ /moissanite/ MMD ring. You see, it sparkles as a diamond!"

Again, a MMD is a diamond. That said, the strategy of trying to devalue MMDs by pointing out that they are MMDs may backfire.

Once someone sees them up close and realizes that there is no difference in appearance they will likely want to own one.

 

[nala]

Again, a MMD is a diamond. That said, the strategy of trying to devalue MMDs by pointing out that they are MMDs may backfire. Once someone sees them up close and realizes that there is no difference in appearance they will likely want to own one.

Devalue or calling It by its proper name? Why do your perceive MMD as a term that implies devaluing?

 

[VDK1]

Again, a MMD is a diamond. That said, the strategy of trying to devalue MMDs by pointing out that they are MMDs may backfire.

Once someone sees them up close and realizes that there is no difference in appearance they will likely want to own one.

Again, I already got your point on number 2) bellow:



1) If You think they nature diamond and MMD have different inherent values: The answer is :

" It is a (nature) diamond. Or :"it is a lab grown diamond."

2) If you think they are "the same", they "are" diamonds, the answer is one of those in my previous post :

• I bought a 8 usd “Mr Labgrown” T-shirt. Why a 800 usd T-shirt? Mine is the same of LV T-shirt. It “is a T-shirt”!
• I bought a 800 usd 1 ct Lab grown diamond form Light Box. Why a 8000 usd 1ct Nature diamond from …De Beers? My diamond is the same of nature 1 ct diamond. It “is” a diamond!
• (Dear Laurence Graff), I bought a 880 usd 302 ct Lab grown diamond. Why a 80 million usd “Graff Lesedi La Rona from Graff? ? My diamond is the same of nature 302 ct diamond. It “is” a diamond!
• (Your Majesty), I bought a 830 usd 105 ct Lab grown diamond. Why to acquire a … priceless nature Koh I Noor diamond? My diamond is the same of nature 105 ct diamond ( besides the historical values, if any). It “is” a diamond! (and ALL the lab grown diamonds in my Tiara are the same of the ones in the Tiara of The Queen of Great Britain !!!!)

 

[SallyBrown]

From here on out I plan to buy only lab diamonds and preloved/vintage mined diamonds. Just my personal preference.

Now, which of you vendors wants my business and my $$$?
It’s still green. Lol.

 

[nala]

This thread reminds me of Guy de Maupassant’s short stories “The Necklace ” and also “The Jewels.” Fun reads—so I won’t ruin for those of you who haven’t read. But let’s just say that full disclosures make all the difference!

 

[MeowMeow]

This thread reminds me of Guy de Maupassant’s short stories “The Necklace ” and also “The Jewels.” Fun reads—so I won’t ruin for those of you who haven’t read. But let’s just say that full disclosures make all the difference!

Oh I need to find those and read them. Sounds like it could be interesting!

 

[AprilBaby]

Wow, this is a heated thread. There is room for MMD and mined. Where the price will settle is still to be determined. I think a lot depends on where the buyers perceive the value of the diamond lies. I associate a mined diamond with the natural process of them being created. I think that's cool. Another person my think that the modern technology that can create a diamond is cool. Different strokes right? My daughter may prefer mined diamonds due to ethical and environmental reasons. Yes, MMDs are cheaper and that allows people that buy them to spend less and use their money for other things. That is great for them because they are spending their money on things they value. I am fine with spending on mined diamonds. That means I can't buy as many as someone who buys MMDs, or I do not have the funds to buy other things, and I am ok with that too. Why judge? Different people, different preferences, different priorities.

This is the point MOST of us are making. Do what makes you comfortable. Just don’t call those who don’t fakes.

 

[LLJsmom]

Back to the original question of whether MMD will affect the price of mined diamonds, I think...maybe not. I think there are people that will still choose mined diamonds, because they are mined. And there are people that will choose MMD for their reasons, and people that are open to both.

What is interesting is the uses of diamonds as a semiconductor. Prior to the technology of making MMD being more available and developed, diamonds were too expensive to be used as semiconductors. But with this industry growing, maybe the impact is on other technologies. I found this article, and another much more in depth one I cannot find right now. It will be very interesting to see how the MMD industry affects the high tech industry.

The case for diamond semiconductors - Electronic Products & Technology

Newly developed technology aims to impact and transform all industries

www.ept.ca

Diamonds - the ultimate semiconductors

Diamonds' simple yet unique characteristics create significant potential for use in a wide range of purposes, including generation of environmental energy and biological applications.

www.nanowerk.com

.

Maybe DeBeers isn't planning on making MMD for retail sale their primary goal. Maybe they planning on supplying the tech market.

De Beers eyes tech markets for synthetic diamonds future

Anglo American unit De Beers is going after lucrative, but elusive high-tech markets in quantum computing, as it aims to expand its lab-grown diamond business beyond drilling and cutting.

www.reuters.com

$3.75M to Explore Synthetic Diamond Semiconductors at Crocker Lab

Although diamonds are mostly thought of as jewelry, synthetic diamonds are being explored for semiconductors because of their unique properties. Structurally identical to diamonds, synthetic diamonds are produced by a controlled process, as compared to natural diamonds, which are created by...

lettersandscience.ucdavis.edu

The use of synthetic diamonds as semiconductors does not necessarily diminish the value of a beautiful mined diamond.

And I have another question. For the CS people, do people generally distinguish between MMD color stones or mined colored stones? Have MM CS been around a lot longer than MMD? How does the colored stone industry view MM v mined? How does that affect the pricing? Can similar comparisons be made with MMD v mined diamonds?

 

[AprilBaby]

It seems this debate and speculation will keep going for a while. If you want more opinions from people in the industry about this, check out these two links:

Innovation Vs Disruption: Spectators don’t win games

There are plenty of questions and theories concerning De Beers’ decision to enter the synthetic diamond market. Some believe synthetics are simply a logical extension of its existing business while others view it as monopolistic behaviour aimed at controlling the industry.

www.jewellermagazine.com

The Great Diamond Debate: Round II

A lot has happened since our last Great Diamond Debate. In the last 12-months, the continuing brouhaha concerning natural versus lab-grown diamonds has become complex, turning into a latter-day ‘land grab’ for the hearts and minds of consumers. Read updates from industry leaders around the world...

www.jewellermagazine.com

Thanks! I find Martin Rapaports argument out of touch with today’s consumer. He argues that a woman wants something expensive for an ering to prove her worth . I find that old fashioned. I think younger buyers ( outside of PS) want the biggest bang for the buck and save the money for a house. He also argues the long term depreciation of a MMD will make a woman sad. If I lost 50% of a 2 ct mined diamond I would be out a whole lot more than 50% of a MMD. That argument to me doesn’t hold water. The article by Cobley Nicholson, tho from 2019 , I thought was very good.
Buy what you are comfortable with, mined or MMD. There is something for everyone. Even Moissy!

 

[nala]

@LLJsmom check out old miner’s post on why diamonds thread in rt for more speculations.

 

[missy]

@LLJsmom check out old miner’s post on why diamonds thread in rt for more speculations.

Hi @nala, Is this it?

@LLJsmom

What is it about diamonds?

Ok, so, I don't want this to be a controversial thread. I just want to know, why diamonds? (over other white, sparkly, durable stones). For me personally, I have moissanite and CZ jewellery as well as diamond jewellery. And I honestly can't say why I prefer diamond. I think partly it is...

www.pricescope.com

 

[nala]

Hi @nala, Is this it?

@LLJsmom

What is it about diamonds?

Ok, so, I don't want this to be a controversial thread. I just want to know, why diamonds? (over other white, sparkly, durable stones). For me personally, I have moissanite and CZ jewellery as well as diamond jewellery. And I honestly can't say why I prefer diamond. I think partly it is...

www.pricescope.com

Yes! Thanks for posting this link. Old Miner’s reply is very relevant to this discussion.

 

[missy]

Yes! Thanks for posting this link. Old Miner’s reply is very relevant to this discussion.

Thanks for mentioning his post @nala. Very interesting and I agree relevant to this discussion.

I think MMDs have their place for all the reasons stated by PSers in these threads. I also agree they are a bad investment but if one wants to wear and enjoy them because they are beautiful and does so with eyes wide open it's all good.

Their cache is not the same as mined diamonds. I get that. But some of us don't need or care about cache. And there is no right or wrong when it comes to that either. IMO.

And will MMD evoke the feelings of romance and history that mined diamonds do?

Does something have to be rare to be special? That is the question and I think the answer will vary depending on the individual. To be sure they do not hold the same financial value of mined diamonds but I don't think anyone is purchasing MMDs for that reason. At least I hope they aren't.

Like @diamondseeker2006 wrote where one is in life will dictate what one decides. And lab diamonds are here to stay I think and will serve a very important purchase for some/many.

We shall see.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Cubic zirconia is cubic zirconia. It is not fake!

If I wear a CZ or a moissanite or a MMD ring, and someone say : " Your ring is beautiful", I will reply :" Thank you!"

If he says : Your diamond ring is beautiful" , I will reply "Thank you! But this is a CZ /moissanite/ MMD ring. You see, it sparkles as a diamond!"

I feel like we are at the point of beating a dead horse, and I don’t care if people wear czs, glass, or plastic.

The point is, a cz is a cz, not a diamond. A lab grown diamond is still a diamond, and if I meet and compliment the diamond ring of a lady who owns one, in no way do I expect them to disclose whether it’s lab or mined.

 

[Big Fat Facets]

from my observations, of this thread, It has gone from outward belittling of mmd

“mmds are cheap” and “devalue in market” and “priced like cubic zirconia”

to the incessant insistence to those that choose to wear mmd to disclose and declare that it is lab derived.

all the while discounting that mmd people feel the same emotional attachment to their diamond as those that choose to wear earth mined. (some are so attached that their diamond gets named)

a rough example would be:

people are complimenting and praising a group of beautiful children playing at the park while parents look on. all of a sudden someone walks over and says how inferior a kid is because she is an ivf child. this person then further insists that the parent should refer to their child as an “ivf child” and not just “a child”. the parents of course, react defensively. the parents love their children fiercely as they are their gems. a parent does not love their ivf child any less than a child conceived conventionally.

some may not comprehend or even care about someone else’s feelings and emotional attachment to their jewelry, wether it is of lab origin or otherwise. the meaning behind their diamond is just as valuable

 

[nala]

from my observations, of this thread, It has gone from outward belittling of mmd

“mmds are cheap” and “devalue in market” and “priced like cubic zirconia”

to the incessant insistence to those that choose to wear mmd to disclose and declare that it is of lab derived.

all the while discounting that mmd people feel the same emotional attachment to their diamond as those that choose to wear earth mined. (some are so attached that their diamond gets named)

a rough example would be:

people are complimenting and praising a group of beautiful children playing at the park while parents look on. all of a sudden someone walks over and says how inferior a kid is because she is an ivf child. this person then further insists that the parent should refer to their child as an “ivf child” and not just “a child”. the parents of course, react defensively. the parents love their children fiercely as they are their gems. a parent does not love their ivf child any less than a child conceived conventionally.

some may not comprehend or even care about someone else’s feelings and emotional attachment to their jewelry, wether it is of lab origin or otherwise. the meaning behind their diamond is just as valuable

You conveniently forgot to quote the insecurity jab that @123ducklings mentioned, yet you continue to use an offensive and flawed analogy of ivf children. And this thread was back on track with the speculation part but posters like you keep trying to derail it by taking my arguments-bc I take credit for some of your quotes—out of context. But carry on.. the echo chamber will applaud you and I don’t mind refuting your poor arguments.
ETA: I encourage you to read Old Miner’s post in the link posted above. You can visit that thread and pretty much tell him what you said here in that thread. Why stop with me?

 

[SallyBrown]

Your dog is cute, @nala!

 

[nala]

Your dog is cute, @nala!

Ty! That’s a pic of Nala when she was younger. She just turned 14 and Is the old lady in our home. It’s her world, we just live in it.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

I think its all in the marketing

 

[123ducklings]

You conveniently forgot to quote the insecurity jab that @123ducklings mentioned, yet you continue to use an offensive and flawed analogy of ivf children. And this thread was back on track with the speculation part but posters like you keep trying to derail it by taking my arguments-bc I take credit for some of your quotes—out of context. But carry on.. the echo chamber will applaud you and I don’t mind refuting your poor arguments.
ETA: I encourage you to read Old Miner’s post in the link posted above. You can visit that thread and pretty much tell him what you said here in that thread. Why stop with me?

I have not taken a “jab” at anyone, nor have I “attacked” anyone as you’ve also claimed. My posts speak for themselves. Please stop mischaracterizing me.

Edit: And am I the only one who thinks it’s posts like the above quoted that are actually derailing the thread? Yikes.

 

[VDK1]

I feel like we are at the point of beating a dead horse, and I don’t care if people wear czs, glass, or plastic.

The point is, a cz is a cz, not a diamond. A lab grown diamond is still a diamond, and if I meet and compliment the diamond ring of a lady who owns one, in no way do I expect them to disclose whether it’s lab or mined.

I don’t care if people wear jems czs, glass, or plastic and never expect or ask them to disclose whether it is mined/ enhanched/ heat treated/ being treated by other process or totally synthetic/ lab grown!

But if you sell your MMD to someone ( if you are able to do so), you have to clearly disclose it is a lab grown diamond!

Again
If I wear a CZ or a moissanite or a MMD ring, and someone say : " Your ring is beautiful", I will reply :" Thank you!"

If he says : Your diamond ring is beautiful" , I will reply "Thank you! But this is a CZ /moissanite/ MMD ring. You see, it sparkles as a diamond!"

Because I love things I have and there is nothing to hide about their origins or materials ..

 

[nala]

I have not taken a “jab” at anyone, nor have I “attacked” anyone as you’ve also claimed. My posts speak for themselves. Please stop mischaracterizing me.

Edit: And am I the only one who thinks it’s posts like the above quoted that are actually derailing the thread? Yikes.

Here you go. Your words, not mine
“For the pro-MMD posters who shout in all caps that their diamonds ARE REAL, there’s an insecurity and a need for validation connected to their jewelry.”
I stated that you stalked another poster bc you reported all her threads on RT bc they are lgd. She said you were stalking her and that it was creepy but you were motivated to do it—I won’t mischaracterize your intentions— I’m sure people can draw their own conclusions about why you did that.

 

[123ducklings]

Here you go. Your words, not mine
“For the pro-MMD posters who shout in all caps that their diamonds ARE REAL, there’s an insecurity and a need for validation connected to their jewelry.”
I stated that you stalked another poster bc you reported all her threads on RT bc they are lgd. She said you were stalking her and that it was creepy but you were motivated to do it—I won’t mischaracterize your intentions— I’m sure people can draw their own conclusions about why you did that.

Wow, is this how you let off steam? Again, my posts speak for themselves, and again I ask you to stop mischaracterizing me.

 

[nala]

Wow, is this how you let off steam? Again, my posts speak for themselves, and again I ask you to stop mischaracterizing me.

This I how I clarify. No sweat off my back.

 

[Spring Day]

We are a big group of people from all different walks of life and with different personalities and preferences. We’re aren’t all going to get along. What’s important is that we do not put down the opinions of others that differ from ours. If I’m frank, there’s plenty of people on here that I disagree with and annoy the crap out of me but that’s what the ignore button is there for. Time to use it.

 

[Yelena]

Thanks! I find Martin Rapaports argument out of touch with today’s consumer. He argues that a woman wants something expensive for an ering to prove her worth . I find that old fashioned. I think younger buyers ( outside of PS) want the biggest bang for the buck and save the money for a house. He also argues the long term depreciation of a MMD will make a woman sad. If I lost 50% of a 2 ct mined diamond I would be out a whole lot more than 50% of a MMD. That argument to me doesn’t hold water. The article by Cobley Nicholson, tho from 2019 , I thought was very good.
Buy what you are comfortable with, mined or MMD. There is something for everyone. Even Moissy!

You're welcome re the links. I am still working my way through all of the articles. I am finding it interesting and informative. It really is a topic that has created a LOT of emotion, both in this thread and in the industry, so I figure it is worth a bit of a deep dive into it.

I haven't delved into Martin Rapaport's articles as yet. You are very kind to call him old fashioned. I would call him sexist and out of touch.

I did find this article interesting as well because it talks about how out of touch a lot of jewellery retailers are with potential consumers of their products.

https://www.retaildive.com/news/rock-bottom-tracing-the-decline-of-diamond-retail/555795/

Quote from the article:

Hurwitz said that diamond retailers are stuck in the past. "The diamond jewelry industry is probably still targeting the last vestiges of the baby boom generation," he said. "It's mostly men, who are also targeted through watch advertising, which is 100% male. Rolex, for example, targets all men and late-stage baby boomers." But he said that's a mistake. "[Jewelers] should target younger bridal couples; self-purchasing women; African American consumers; the LGBTQ+ community, which is sizable, and they're ignoring it; and Hispanic consumers," he said. "Maybe only one jewelry store in the country has a website that translates into Spanish."

 

[Yelena]

Back to the original question of whether MMD will affect the price of mined diamonds, I think...maybe not. I think there are people that will still choose mined diamonds, because they are mined. And there are people that will choose MMD for their reasons, and people that are open to both.

What is interesting is the uses of diamonds as a semiconductor. Prior to the technology of making MMD being more available and developed, diamonds were too expensive to be used as semiconductors. But with this industry growing, maybe the impact is on other technologies. I found this article, and another much more in depth one I cannot find right now. It will be very interesting to see how the MMD industry affects the high tech industry.

The case for diamond semiconductors - Electronic Products & Technology

Newly developed technology aims to impact and transform all industries

www.ept.ca

Diamonds - the ultimate semiconductors

Diamonds' simple yet unique characteristics create significant potential for use in a wide range of purposes, including generation of environmental energy and biological applications.

www.nanowerk.com

.

Maybe DeBeers isn't planning on making MMD for retail sale their primary goal. Maybe they planning on supplying the tech market.

De Beers eyes tech markets for synthetic diamonds future

Anglo American unit De Beers is going after lucrative, but elusive high-tech markets in quantum computing, as it aims to expand its lab-grown diamond business beyond drilling and cutting.

www.reuters.com

$3.75M to Explore Synthetic Diamond Semiconductors at Crocker Lab

Although diamonds are mostly thought of as jewelry, synthetic diamonds are being explored for semiconductors because of their unique properties. Structurally identical to diamonds, synthetic diamonds are produced by a controlled process, as compared to natural diamonds, which are created by...

lettersandscience.ucdavis.edu

The use of synthetic diamonds as semiconductors does not necessarily diminish the value of a beautiful mined diamond.

And I have another question. For the CS people, do people generally distinguish between MMD color stones or mined colored stones? Have MM CS been around a lot longer than MMD? How does the colored stone industry view MM v mined? How does that affect the pricing? Can similar comparisons be made with MMD v mined diamonds?

Hi @LLJsmom I don't know enough to fully answer your questions regarding coloured stones. I do know that in spite of Lab created sapphires and emeralds having been around a long, long time now, they don't appear to have lessened the value of earth mined sapphires and emeralds. I suspect that it will be the same with earth mined diamonds (as per the original post). They will retain their value and the Lab created diamonds may well fall a bit further in price before their prices stabilize.

Let's not forget that we also have growing middle classes in India and China who can now afford things that their parents couldn't afford, so there are a lot more potential consumers in the market. It's up to the marketers to work their magic and create mythos around their products.

 

[Buttercookies]

K

Thanks! I find Martin Rapaports argument out of touch with today’s consumer. He argues that a woman wants something expensive for an ering to prove her worth . I find that old fashioned. I think younger buyers ( outside of PS) want the biggest bang for the buck and save the money for a house. He also argues the long term depreciation of a MMD will make a woman sad. If I lost 50% of a 2 ct mined diamond I would be out a whole lot more than 50% of a MMD. That argument to me doesn’t hold water. The article by Cobley Nicholson, tho from 2019 , I thought was very good.
Buy what you are comfortable with, mined or MMD. There is something for everyone. Even Moissy!

Questioning the ethics of synthetic diamonds

Synthetic diamonds are a fundamental threat to the natural diamond industry. They are not just a competitive product like gems, pearls or gold jewellery – they are a replacement product.

www.jewellermagazine.com

I had no idea. "The cost of manufacturing synthetic diamonds is continuously decreasing (it currently stands at $US300–$500 per carat)."

I wonder how much it is to mine a 1ct diamond.

 

[icy_jade]

a rough example would be:

people are complimenting and praising a group of beautiful children playing at the park while parents look on. all of a sudden someone walks over and says how inferior a kid is because she is an ivf child. this person then further insists that the parent should refer to their child as an “ivf child” and not just “a child”. the parents of course, react defensively. the parents love their children fiercely as they are their gems. a parent does not love their ivf child any less than a child conceived conventionally.

Comparing diamonds to kids is frankly unnecessary and cruel. Can we have a conversation without bringing in IVF kids on every other page. Let’s compare objects to objects. Diamonds vs gems vs whatever inanimate object. Not kids.