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Lab grown diamonds will make good natural diamonds way more expensive

VDK1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
182
There’s nothing wrong with analyzing the market. No one took issue with Gary’s post or the initial discussion. I think people get offended when they are personally named and there are statements speculating about their personal milestone jewelry to the tune of “it’s cheap, fake, will lose its significance, and the woman who chose it must not know her worth.” And I think anyone who makes those comments over and over, especially after a mod reminder that it’s possible to express your own preferences without being nasty about someone else’s jewelry, is definitely meaning to offend.

Luckily most of us live and let live, so I’m confident most of us will continue to steer back to the original topic, which is of interest to MMD enthusiasts, naysayers, and many in between.
You may feel hurt if someone thinks or says that MMD is “fake”, is ”cheap” …or something like that. But if you think it is desirable or is a symbol of love, why should you care much? We should only care of ourselves, of the one we love and of who are close to us, right? Many people, many ideas. Is there a forum rule that only good things of MMD can be talked in this sub-forum?

If you like to, you can declare to the world that you are a proud owner of MMD, you are an enthusiast of MMD!

But if you keep saying the MMD is the same of Nature Diamond, you may also make some owners of nature diamond feel foolish. Why did they pay a 8000 usd for a 1 ct nature diamond, the same of a 1/10 priced MMD? Both are “diamonds”! Some nature diamond owners may feel they have made such a dumb decision to buy nature diamonds! Is there a forum rule that only good things of Nature diamond can be talked ?


And do you believe that you get what you pay for?
 

Buttercookies

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 13, 2020
Messages
232
You may feel hurt if someone thinks or says that MMD is “fake”, is ”cheap” …or something like that. But if you think it is desirable or is a symbol of love, why should you care much? We should only care of ourselves, of the one we love and of who are close to us, right? Many people, many ideas. Is there a forum rule that only good things of MMD can be talked in this sub-forum?

If you like to, you can declare to the world that you are a proud owner of MMD, you are an enthusiast of MMD!

But if you keep saying the MMD is the same of Nature Diamond, you may also make some owners of nature diamond feel foolish. Why did they pay a 8000 usd for a 1 ct nature diamond, the same of a 1/10 priced MMD? Both are “diamonds”! Some nature diamond owners may feel they have made such a dumb decision to buy nature diamonds! Is there a forum rule that only good things of Nature diamond can be talked ?


And do you believe that you get what you pay for?
You just answer your own question in one breath.

There is no rule to say that you can’t say negative things about MMD in an MMD forum. But this is after all a diamond forum, so expect a backlash if you are going to talk trash.

I don’t need admin to tell you that you’re being simply rude to MMD wearer.
 
Last edited:

icy_jade

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
3,600
You just answer your own question in one breath.

There is no rule to say that you can’t say negative things about MMD in an MMD forum. But this is after all a diamond forum, so expect a backlash if you are going to talk trash.

I don’t need admin to tell you that you’re being simply rude to MMD wearer.
I saw your comment before it was edited. Am guessing that you don’t have kids. There is no comparison. Between my kids and my diamonds, I’ll give up my diamonds in a heartbeat if ever I have to choose. So frankly I cannot understand when comparisons are made about emotional attachment to diamonds (mined or MMD) vs how people feel about kids.

Contrary to what you may think, most of us that I see participating in this thread just want to stick to the topic and not cause whatever offense is construed.

Anyway I’m out of this thread. Too much emo derailing the conversation. If anyone wants to have logical debate about this topic, pls create in RT or some other sub forum.

For the record, and lest I’m accused of being some basher, I’m quite happy to get MMDs once technology and prices have stablised.
 

VDK1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
182
You just answer your own question in one breath.

There is no rule to say that you can’t say negative things about MMD in an MMD forum. But this is after all a diamond forum, so expect a backlash if you are going to talk trash.

I don’t need admin to tell you that you’re being simply rude to MMD wearer.
"Diamonds are to be found only in the darkness of the earth, and truth in the darkness of the mind!"

Victor Hugo
 

123ducklings

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
536
You may feel hurt if someone thinks or says that MMD is “fake”, is ”cheap” …or something like that. But if you think it is desirable or is a symbol of love, why should you care much? We should only care of ourselves, of the one we love and of who are close to us, right? Many people, many ideas. Is there a forum rule that only good things of MMD can be talked in this sub-forum?

If you like to, you can declare to the world that you are a proud owner of MMD, you are an enthusiast of MMD!

But if you keep saying the MMD is the same of Nature Diamond, you may also make some owners of nature diamond feel foolish. Why did they pay a 8000 usd for a 1 ct nature diamond, the same of a 1/10 priced MMD? Both are “diamonds”! Some nature diamond owners may feel they have made such a dumb decision to buy nature diamonds! Is there a forum rule that only good things of Nature diamond can be talked ?


And do you believe that you get what you pay for?
I think you’re misunderstanding me. I’m not hurt or offended at all by open discussion, and I have never said that there is no distinction between mined and MMD. My issue is that the interesting discussion threads in this forum keep getting derailed by totally unnecessary rudeness.
 

Big Fat Facets

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 7, 2019
Messages
1,444
You just answer your own question in one breath.

There is no rule to say that you can’t say negative things about MMD in an MMD forum. But this is after all a diamond forum, so expect a backlash if you are going to talk trash.

I don’t need admin to tell you that you’re being simply rude to MMD wearer.
hi @Buttercookies!

i saw your post before it was trimmed=)2 I quite liked it! You ought to feel free to express your feelings. and not be intimidated...

(im alluding to your edited post) i believe and understand that "that" level of offense, is likely, about how offended mmd wearers feel when people are derogatory and say that mmds are "cheap" and "cheap ring" and "fake" and "a woman that chooses mmd must not know her worth" ...

there are those that are incapable of understanding other people's hurt feelings. it is a clear indication, of lacking empathy. to not acknowledge, invalidate and dismiss. some deem their feelings towards a certain subject most important, above anyone else's. from what i have observed, I believe we have some fundamental issues:

questionable basic reading comprehension OR lacking empathy PERHAPS both??

for those that don't see any "vicious" or intent to offend. all one really has to do is to read and refer to earlier posts. there is nothing "construed", it is all there in "black and white" for all to see. not to mention quoted numerous times by the mistreated attempting to defend themselves, of these offensive insulting derogatory put downs

i don't know about you, but to me, it is crystal clear, where people stand and what they stand for

I believe emotional attachment and current cultural acceptance of MMD is part of the direct driving force that has and will continue to influence the price of mmd within the marketplace.
either way it goes, up or down, mmd wearers arent bothered by it. afterall, a persons worth, is not measured in diamonds
 

AprilBaby

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Jul 17, 2008
Messages
11,433
"Diamonds are to be found only in the darkness of the earth, and truth in the darkness of the mind!"

Victor Hugo
Victor Hugo has been dead since 1885. He missed finding out he was wrong.
 

nala

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Messages
4,911
hi @Buttercookies!

i saw your post before it was trimmed=)2 I quite liked it! You ought to feel free to express your feelings. and not be intimidated...

(im alluding to your edited post) i believe and understand that "that" level of offense, is likely, about how offended mmd wearers feel when people are derogatory and say that mmds are "cheap" and "cheap ring" and "fake" and "a woman that chooses mmd must not know her worth" ...

there are those that are incapable of understanding other people's hurt feelings. it is a clear indication, of lacking empathy. to not acknowledge, invalidate and dismiss. some deem their feelings towards a certain subject most important, above anyone else's. from what i have observed, I believe we have some fundamental issues:

questionable basic reading comprehension OR lacking empathy PERHAPS both??

for those that don't see any "vicious" or intent to offend. all one really has to do is to read and refer to earlier posts. there is nothing "construed", it is all there in "black and white" for all to see. not to mention quoted numerous times by the mistreated attempting to defend themselves, of these offensive insulting derogatory put downs

i don't know about you, but to me, it is crystal clear, where people stand and what they stand for

I believe emotional attachment and current cultural acceptance of MMD is part of the direct driving force that has and will continue to influence the price of mmd within the marketplace.
either way it goes, up or down, mmd wearers arent bothered by it. afterall, a persons worth, is not measured in diamonds
The only one being quoted numerous times is you. For your insensitivity. Seriously. At some point just apologize. Stop justifying your offensive and flawed analogy. People can give their opinions about lgds, they can speculate—that is what this thread is about. Speculating as to the future value in regard to supply. If some internalize those speculations and take them personally, that is where the poor read comprehension skills you refer to lie. The speculations are just that—not “vicious” attacks against anyone. You are so melodramatic. Stop with the farce that you keep perpetuating to make your offensive and insensitive analogy. No one fancies you the lgd savior.
 

Cerulean

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 13, 2019
Messages
856
hi @Buttercookies!

i saw your post before it was trimmed=)2 I quite liked it! You ought to feel free to express your feelings. and not be intimidated...

(im alluding to your edited post) i believe and understand that "that" level of offense, is likely, about how offended mmd wearers feel when people are derogatory and say that mmds are "cheap" and "cheap ring" and "fake" and "a woman that chooses mmd must not know her worth" ...

there are those that are incapable of understanding other people's hurt feelings. it is a clear indication, of lacking empathy. to not acknowledge, invalidate and dismiss. some deem their feelings towards a certain subject most important, above anyone else's. from what i have observed, I believe we have some fundamental issues:

questionable basic reading comprehension OR lacking empathy PERHAPS both??

for those that don't see any "vicious" or intent to offend. all one really has to do is to read and refer to earlier posts. there is nothing "construed", it is all there in "black and white" for all to see. not to mention quoted numerous times by the mistreated attempting to defend themselves, of these offensive insulting derogatory put downs

i don't know about you, but to me, it is crystal clear, where people stand and what they stand for

I believe emotional attachment and current cultural acceptance of MMD is part of the direct driving force that has and will continue to influence the price of mmd within the marketplace.
either way it goes, up or down, mmd wearers arent bothered by it. afterall, a persons worth, is not measured in diamonds
I honestly don't even know where this is coming from or how my paraphrased posts are forming some kind of foundation for a totally mischaracterized version of what has been said (at least by me) in this thread. Firstly, I have not intimated that I see a single thing wrong with MMD, nor have I slandered them, or their owners. Nor am I being dismissive.

I also didn't mean to imply that people aren't being a bit tactless, but rather I don't think anyone has meant to cut as deep as your original posts implied. These conversations are complicated, and feelings are complicated and clearly run high, and I posed to the group that maybe there are other ways to talk about this in a way that doesn't hurt feelings. But you must be right. Maybe I am devoid of empathy while also lacking basic reading skills!

I am also saying that I am a prospective MMD buyer who is interested in the market and I am curious about it. Sentiment doesn't = market rates, but that doesn't mean the sentiment isn't most important to the owner. I could also care less about what other people have to say about it and if they have nasty things to say about it that is more a reflection of them, then it is of me or anyone else. But it doesn't mean that nasty things said aren't hurtful, but it shouldn't impact what your MMD means to you.

I also must point out, the irony of you accusing posters of lacking empathy while simultaneously being totally incapable of expressing empathy towards others who are remarking that your comparison is offensive is just totally hypocritical. We can have these conversations without adding fuel to the fire, but yet you are continuing to double down on the comparison. That's fine, you do you. I guess two wrongs do make a right by this logic...?

Yeesh. I am definitely done with this thread.
 

nala

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Messages
4,911
@nala

Could I just ask of you to stop.

Just please ... stop.

The more you post, the more viciousness are spewing out of this thread.
No. You can’t. Not when you are condoning insensitive posts. My opinions on lgd are really none of your business and they remain my opinions and speculations. You have no idea what vicious is if you keep encouraging that offensive analogy for the sake of
Objects. Please. People are posting bc they are offended over @Big Fat Facets but your bias won’t let you acknowledge that.
 

Eeveepenny

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 11, 2020
Messages
172
Wow. So when they hit rock bottom price—and become ubiquitous—I doubt that future brides will be super excited to be proposed to with such an inexpensive symbol. Like why bother with a ring? Social media is a super effective advertising tool and celebrities are still constantly wearing diamonds left and right, and yes, even millennials are posing with their new rings on IG—bc the experience of showing off is just as valuable to them as the experience of traveling. Lol. But i digress. As the Mother of a young lady, I am expecting the real deal—not what will become equivalent to a moissanaite—and will happily educate her on the subject. Like yeah, my future son-in -law proposed to my darling baby with a cheap ring—I expect many mothers would be alarmed and equate the ring to a cubic zirconia. By the looks of a thread I started in hangout, most women are “not happy with just anything” when it comes to the ring. This is the reality. As long as the Crown Jewels are displayed in the Tower of London, authentic diamonds will be highly valued for their natural origins.
You have to wonder why fabricators of man-made diamonds didn’t apply the DeBeers strategy of limiting inventory.
Nala get off your high horse.
Just in case anyone missed the above post by Nala back on page 2. Nala, I don’t know why you have to keep coming onto the lab grown diamonds forum and starting problems? It isn’t the first time either. I honestly don’t even know why you are on here posting? You don’t have a lab grown diamond, you have nothing nice to say about them, it’s all negative. We don’t want to hear it! Like seriously, if you can’t see that then geez....
 

nala

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Messages
4,911
Nala get off your high horse.
Just in case anyone missed the above post by Nala back on page 2. Nala, I don’t know why you have to keep coming onto the lab grown diamonds forum and starting problems? It isn’t the first time either. I honestly don’t even know why you are on here posting? You don’t have a lab grown diamond, you have nothing nice to say about them, it’s all negative. We don’t want to hear it! Like seriously, if you can’t see that then geez....
Thank you for quoting me. Not taking my SPECULATIONS back—you can see this post resonated with some and others dismissed it. Why do you all take them to heart? That is a reflection on you—especially when other posters are actually calling your lgds much worse. Your little pity party is not my doing. You had an incident with Another poster recently and you cried then too. You called him a stalker and creepy bc he reported all of your RT posts to move them here. You need to stop making others comments about lgds about yourself. I have never once referenced your ring. I spoke generally bc this forum is open to all. Put me back on ignore. And if you want empathy, stop condoning that offensive analogy!
 

Yelena

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 7, 2019
Messages
408
Also I apology for further detailing this thread as it is no longer a dead horse but a dead octopus.
Dead Octopus alright. I think this thread is done as far as a discussion where we can speculate about where Earth mined and Lab grown diamond prices are going to go and how the industry is being shaken up by the entry of a big player like De Beers into the lab grown diamond market. It’s a pity because it is an interesting topic.

I have however learned something unexpected from it. The topic of Lab Grown Diamonds for some reason stirs some very, very strong emotions. I really had_no_idea just how strongly people feel about this topic. I am bowing out of this thread now. I am here on Pricescope because I am really interested in all kinds of gems and jewelry and I feel so sad reading some of the posts here. Not pointing at anyone, just saying I feel sad that people feel attacked and unhappy. I’m hitting the ‘unwatch’ button. May you all have many pretty sparkles in your future:)
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jun 8, 2008
Messages
41,862
I have however learned something unexpected from it. The topic of Lab Grown Diamonds for some reason stirs some very, very strong emotions. I really had_no_idea just how strongly people feel about this topic. I am bowing out of this thread now. I am here on Pricescope because I am really interested in all kinds of gems and jewelry and I feel so sad reading some of the posts here. Not pointing at anyone, just saying I feel sad that people feel attacked and unhappy.
My thoughts are that some people who are reacting strongly against lab diamonds are doing so because they are worried. Perhaps worried about the future of mined diamonds in general and concerned specifically about their mined diamonds. That could explain the strong reactions. Though for the average consumer diamonds are not a good investment the worry that lab diamonds could cause monetary loss re mined diamonds could be an issue for some. Or even just perceived loss re the value of their diamonds. And politics enter into this as it does with (almost) everything in life.

And for those reacting strongly pro lab diamonds perhaps it is because they love their lab diamonds and feel on the defensive. I can certainly understand that.

I get why emotions are running high on either side. I also get we are human and sometimes our emotions run high and we might not express things in the calmest most respectful way. Things can get lost in translation when posting vs being face to face. I always feel it best to take a moment (or an hour or more lol depending) to calm down before posting. Sometimes posting while emotions run high can result in things being written that we might not have written had we been calmer and cooler.

There certainly are pros and cons on both sides of the discussion. Someone mentioned being curious about lab diamonds and that describes my feeling as well. I am very curious and I am open to learning more about them. I don't see it as either/or and I feel there is room for both. More needs can be met now that Lab diamonds are on the market.

Has anyone mentioned the smaller physical footprint lab diamonds offer as one advantage? Lab diamonds also use less water and produce less waste. Also to consider is the lasting environmental impact of the mining itself. Just a few more points to consider.

For me, the strongest draw in choosing mined diamonds is the history and romanticism I feel when I see and wear them. There are no words to describe how I feel when I am wearing my old cut diamonds.

I think there is room for both. And I think both are here to stay.
 

AprilBaby

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jul 17, 2008
Messages
11,433
You’ve got issues girl. You really do. But yes I will block you because you’re beyond help.
And with that we see the real antagonist that ruined the thread. Hi my friend! Finally found that button huh?
 

Ella

Brilliant_Rock
Staff member
Trade
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Messages
1,376
Folks, one and only warning. If there is any more condescension, hate, or meanness toward other users in this thread we will start handing out time outs. It's not necessary to accuse each other of perceived behavior.

Don't like what someone's opinion is on MMD? MOVE ALONG.
 

VDK1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
182
For me, the strongest draw in choosing mined diamonds is the history and romanticism I feel when I see and wear them. There are no words to describe how I feel when I am wearing my old cut diamonds.
Something interesting you may not hear about the inspiration of diamonds in the history :

People heartfully dedicated whatever best materials they were able to find like clay, stones, woods, jades, rubies, diamonds, bronze, gold, silver …to sculpt the Buddha Statues which represented the Dharma.

Long ago in Asia, diamond also inspired certain Buddhists as it is the symbol of something unbreakable and precious like the Dharma.

For example, in the 17 th century, this statute was made of 90 kg pure gold and decorated by around 10,000 pieces of diamonds, in which the largest one is about 25 carats. Those diamonds and gold sacred to the Maitreya Buddha.


. ព្រះសិរអារ្យមេត្រីមាស_-_Golden_Maitreya_Buddha.png
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
15,827
Lets all get back on topic - This read makes my case for me - top quality big stones - prices up - lower quality prices down!
 

VDK1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
182
@missy some interesting "fact check" of the "echo friendly" of MMD, "the smaller physical footprint lab diamonds offer as one advantage?"


"The US Federal Trade Commission issued a warning to eight companies last April over their misleading marketing of lab-grown diamonds. The admonition exposed a simmering war of words between the producers of those diamonds and the miners of natural stones, a row that centres on claims around environmental standards and sustainability"

. ..
Trucost estimated that, in 2016, greenhouse gas emissions associated with lab-grown diamond production are approximately three times greater than natural diamonds produced by DPA members. This was probably an underestimate, it noted, due to a lack of publicly available information.
..

"Jean-Marc Lieberherr, who stepped down in December after almost four years as chief executive of the DPA, accuses some growers of making false claims about using renewable energy. “Some say that they have no carbon footprint, but given the incredibly high temperatures they need to run their reactors, solar or wind energy is not sufficient,” he says.

“Only hydropower would deliver that. How many have access to hydropower? They may have some renewable energy in their grid or buy solar credits but that is not quite the same.”

Given the high temperatures inside the reactors in which the diamonds are grown “15m litres of water are needed every year to cool them off”, Mr Lieberherr says. “In areas where there are already water shortages, that is not great. You have to hold people to account on the claims they make.”

...
"the importance for diamond growers to focus on becoming carbon neutral but, as Mr Mathuram points out, it will not be an easy process. “Many growers are based in China, which has caused market instability, undercutting prices,” he says, questioning “how would they qualify for sustainability"
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
41,862
@VDK1 No one option is perfect. But perfect is the enemy of good. For now it does appear that lab created diamonds may be the more environmentally friendly option. Research and scientific studies are still being evaluated. For now however, yes, it seems lab created diamonds are easier on the environment.





"
Are laboratory-grown diamonds the more ethical choice to say 'I do'?


In addition to cost savings and supposed environmental benefits, lab-grown diamonds have the same chemical and physical properties as mined diamonds


Alexander Weindling has a fading, black-and-white framed photograph on the desk of his New York City office. It’s of his grandfather, wearing a hat and suit, posing more than a century ago with some of the workers of a diamond mine he oversaw in what was then known as the Belgian Congo.
The mining of diamonds in Africa led to a human rights disaster from colonial times onwards and Weindling, a third-generation diamond and jewelry merchant, uses the incongruity of this photo in the white minimalism of his Tribeca office as a mental spur. That era of diamond mining was “so devastatingly ugly Isis will start looking like good guys,” says Weindling. “It was dreadful. It was criminal. It was unforgivable.”
Weindling reluctantly joined the family diamond business and rose through its ranks, learning about cutting and distribution. He then left in 2012 to co-found Clean Origin, a company that sells laboratory-grown diamonds via the internet. This, Weindling contends, will be his path to redemption as well as helping address the greatest challenge of the modern era – the climate crisis.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/mar/10/diamonds-lab-grown-climate-change#img-2
Lab-grown diamonds as they are growing in a plasma reactor. Photograph: Lionel Bonaventure/AFP via Getty Images
“We all talked a good game, us baby boomers,” says Weindling, who is wearing a white hooded sweatshirt with the words ‘OK Boomer!’ inscribed on it multiple times. “We talked a good game, but we didn’t deliver on it. I want to end my life with clean hands. I was so conflicted in so many ways and I’d like to do something constructive for the world.”
Diamond mining’s history of plunder and unethical work practices were followed by fresher concerns that “blood diamonds” were being used to fund military actions in war zones. The diamond industry has for the past two decades banished this blight through a certification scheme that has largely stamped out unethical trading.


But now pressure over the climate crisis is beginning to grow from campaign groups and a new generation of diamond buyers concerned about the environment. The full toll in planet-warming emissions from the mining and transportation of diamonds has yet to be fully quantified, but for Weindling the equation is clear.
On his computer, Weindling brings up a picture of Mir mine, an enormous gaping hole 1,200 metres across in eastern Siberia where diamonds have been mined since the 1950s. A town perilously perches near the edge of this huge open pit.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/mar/10/diamonds-lab-grown-climate-change#img-3
A view of a kimberlite pipe of the Mir diamond mine in eastern Siberia. Photograph: Alexander Ryumin/TASS
Advertisement

“Do you want to tell me this is a good thing?” Weindling asks, rhetorically. “I don’t need science to tell that [lab-grown diamonds] is less bad than that. My eyes tell me that’s a lot worst for our planet. We don’t need to dig these huge holes in the earth any more that are visible from space. We used to hunt whales. We don’t do that any more do we?”
Weindling and a growing number of lab-grown diamond sellers are betting that the upcoming generation of soon-to-be-weds will happily switch from traditional mined diamonds when making their major ring purchase. Weindling pulls up figures showing growing numbers of people are happy to buy their ring online, too, but admits there is a generational gap. “This Gen Z, they are really savvy, they have bullshit meters,” he says. “That said, nobody over 50 will accept a lab-grown diamond – ‘oh don’t give me one of those fake things.’”




Lab-grown diamonds have the same chemical and physical properties as naturally mined diamonds, with even industry experts unable to tell the difference optically. The main giveaway is an “LG” inscribed at the base of the stone.
Diamonds are formed naturally through a combination of heat, pressure and time, growing deep underground until deep-set volcanic eruptions bring them closer to the surface, ready to be excavated. Lab-grown versions recreate this using a fragment of diamond in a sealed chamber which is heated to extreme temperatures - “you heat it to the temperature of the surface of the sun, not the interior of the sun,” Weindling explains – and filled with various gases that add layers to the diamond over a number of days.


The results look remarkably authentic to a layperson. The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) ruled in 2018 that lab-grown diamonds are included in the same definitional universe as mined diamonds but warned against the use of terms like “natural” in marketing that confused the two categories.
Weindling casually hands over an enormous nine-carat cushion cut diamond ring that would be of such rarity if found naturally that it would auction for $5m or $6m. “I’d sell you that for $200,000 very happily,” Weindling says.
“If you’ve ever seen a woman’s face when she puts a diamond on her ring for the first time … God willing if they get pregnant, and now they don’t have that slim body and they’re a little nervous, and they look at that ring, that’s really important,” Weindling adds. “We can’t rip that out of society. However, we can do a lot better in servicing that need without committing this kind of villainy to the planet.”
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/mar/10/diamonds-lab-grown-climate-change#img-4

Miners pan for diamonds near Koidu in north-eastern Sierra Leone in 2004. Photograph: Ben Curtis/AP
The cost savings, as well as the supposed environmental benefits, are well targeted for a generation struggling with debt and the looming horrors of the climate crisis. In response, the established diamond industry has sought to head off this threat by challenging the idea that it is ruinous for the climate.
De Beers, the world’s largest diamond producer, announced plans in 2017 to operate a carbon-neutral mine and pointed out that the FTC has warned lab-grown diamond sellers over the veracity of their environmental claims.
Diamonds are grown in labs in countries including China, Singapore and the US, places that lean heavily upon fossil fuels for energy. The huge amount of power needed to create a diamond can lead to a significant output in carbon pollution if the energy source is dirty, a point made in a 2019 Trucost reportwhich found that, on average, greenhouse gas emissions are three times greater for lab-grown diamonds than their mined counterparts.


“The majority of claims that lab-grown diamonds are more ethical or environmentally friendly do not appear to be based on any discernible ethical or environmental benefit; they simply rely on using outdated or inaccurate perceptions of the natural diamond sector as a point of comparison,” said a De Beers spokesman, who also pointed to the various economic benefits the industry has brought to countries such as Botswana.
The Trucost report, however, was produced on behalf of the Diamond Producers Association, a trade group of diamond miners including De Beers. “The report makes a lot of assumptions, it doesn’t look at the full life cycle of mines, the energy use of exploration and so on – once you consider that then the impact is enormous,” says Saleem Ali, a minerals expert at the University of Delaware.
“There is a place for mined diamonds because they provide a lot more jobs than lab-grown. But I’d venture to say the environmental impact is far greater for mined diamonds. If you grow a diamond you can situate the lab wherever you want, move it to Norway and use hydropower perhaps. You can’t do that with a mine.”
Ultimately, the battleground will be one of marketing. The mined industry-backed “Real is rare” advertising campaign seeks to present diamonds as a sort of fairytale, one that values authenticity and uniqueness. Lab-grown diamonds, by their nature of production, do not fit this industry image of exclusivity.
“One was manufactured in a laboratory and one was formed in the earth over billions of years, so there is a significant difference in value,” says Cathleen McCarthy, founder of the Jewelry Loupe blog. “I would hope the public sees that difference, because it should be reflected in the price they pay.”
Another jewelry blog influencer, Liza Urla of Gemologue, says most aficionados enjoy lab-grown diamonds for everyday, casual uses but items such as engagement rings are a different matter. “Only the real deal will do because a true diamond holds its value,” she says.
Perceptions can shift, however, and the world of diamonds could well be upended by new environmental norms.
“I just want to give people choice. You want to marry a gerbil? Marry a gerbil. God bless,” says Weindling. “I wasn’t here to judge other people, but I can judge myself very harshly. I won’t touch a mined diamond. I have one left, it’s the one I gave my wife 20 years ago. It’s for sale. If you want to buy it, just make me an offer.”

"



"A mined diamond consumes more than 126 gallons of water per carat. Our diamonds, on the other hand, consume just 18 gallons. Mined diamonds also result in “constant discharge of wastewater and pollutants in surface water bodies,” according to a recent research study from Frost & Sullivan.

When it comes to energy, mined diamonds use 538.5 million joules per carat, while grown ones use 250 million. Although this may seem like a lot, the Frost & Sullivan study claims that much of the energy used in creating lab-grown gemstones is renewable.

The difference in carbon emissions on Ethica diamonds and mined diamonds is staggering. According to Frost & Sullivan, while a traditionally mined diamond produces more than 125 pounds of carbon for every single carat, man-made diamonds emit just 6 pounds of carbon – a mere 4.8% of what mined diamonds produce.

Mined diamonds also produce more than 30 pounds of Sulphur oxide, while man-made diamonds produce none. “In terms of overall gaseous emissions, the growth process involves little or no emissions of significance,” Frost & Sullivan’s study reported.

For every carat of diamond that is mined via traditional methods, Frost & Sullivan reports that nearly 100 square feet of land is disturbed and more than 5,798 pounds of mineral waste is created. The mining also offsets delicate biodiversity balances and renders the land unusable – even once mining activities have ceased.

By comparison, our diamonds disrupt just 0.07 square feet of land per carat and only 1 pound of mineral waste. According to Frost & Sullivan’s study, diamond-creating facilities “are often located in areas that have a negligible impact on the environment and have almost no impact on biodiversity in the area of operation.”

"


"
Figures published by Diamond Foundry suggest that the total environmental footprint of mined diamonds is much higher than lab diamonds. “It takes an entire factor more energy to extract an underground diamond from Earth than it takes to create one above ground... On top of this, the energy used in mining is generally dirty diesel versus renewable energy in our above-the-ground production,” says a blog post on their website.

An estimated 250 tonnes of earth is shifted for every single carat of diamond. For context, 148 million carats were mined in 2018. Indeed, some mines are now so huge they can be seen from space using Nasa’s Terra satellite. A 2014 report by consulting firm Frost & Sullivan also showed that mined diamonds require twice as much energy per carat than those grown in a lab. It estimated that 57kg of carbon are released into the atmosphere for every single carat mined.

But the environmental damage from diamond mining goes further than simply its carbon emissions. Diamond mining has been linked to pollution of water sources used by local people due to acid mine drainage. This occurs when minerals from the mined rocks seep into the water supply.

Mining has also caused the destruction of habitats in Canada and beyond. In 2016, The Wall Street Journal reported that De Beers had killed over 18,000 fish draining a Canadian lake for diamond mining. In India, diamond mines have been blamed for placing highly endangered tiger populations under further pressure.

Diamond mining has been linked to pollution of water sources used by local people due to acid mine drainage
"

So, while neither lab diamond nor mined diamond industries are perfect, the wider environmental price from the latter can be higher.

IMO, As more studies are done and info revealed we shall see. But for now it does seem lab created diamonds are, overall, more environmentally friendly than their earth mined counterparts. For a myriad of reasons. Neither option is perfect for the environment but perfect is the enemy of good.
 

VDK1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
182
@VDK1 No one option is perfect. But perfect is the enemy of good. For now it does appear that lab created diamonds may be the more environmentally friendly option. Research and scientific studies are still being evaluated. For now however, yes, it seems lab created diamonds are easier on the environment.





"
Are laboratory-grown diamonds the more ethical choice to say 'I do'?


In addition to cost savings and supposed environmental benefits, lab-grown diamonds have the same chemical and physical properties as mined diamonds


Alexander Weindling has a fading, black-and-white framed photograph on the desk of his New York City office. It’s of his grandfather, wearing a hat and suit, posing more than a century ago with some of the workers of a diamond mine he oversaw in what was then known as the Belgian Congo.
The mining of diamonds in Africa led to a human rights disaster from colonial times onwards and Weindling, a third-generation diamond and jewelry merchant, uses the incongruity of this photo in the white minimalism of his Tribeca office as a mental spur. That era of diamond mining was “so devastatingly ugly Isis will start looking like good guys,” says Weindling. “It was dreadful. It was criminal. It was unforgivable.”
Weindling reluctantly joined the family diamond business and rose through its ranks, learning about cutting and distribution. He then left in 2012 to co-found Clean Origin, a company that sells laboratory-grown diamonds via the internet. This, Weindling contends, will be his path to redemption as well as helping address the greatest challenge of the modern era – the climate crisis.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/mar/10/diamonds-lab-grown-climate-change#img-2
Lab-grown diamonds as they are growing in a plasma reactor. Photograph: Lionel Bonaventure/AFP via Getty Images
“We all talked a good game, us baby boomers,” says Weindling, who is wearing a white hooded sweatshirt with the words ‘OK Boomer!’ inscribed on it multiple times. “We talked a good game, but we didn’t deliver on it. I want to end my life with clean hands. I was so conflicted in so many ways and I’d like to do something constructive for the world.”
Diamond mining’s history of plunder and unethical work practices were followed by fresher concerns that “blood diamonds” were being used to fund military actions in war zones. The diamond industry has for the past two decades banished this blight through a certification scheme that has largely stamped out unethical trading.


But now pressure over the climate crisis is beginning to grow from campaign groups and a new generation of diamond buyers concerned about the environment. The full toll in planet-warming emissions from the mining and transportation of diamonds has yet to be fully quantified, but for Weindling the equation is clear.
On his computer, Weindling brings up a picture of Mir mine, an enormous gaping hole 1,200 metres across in eastern Siberia where diamonds have been mined since the 1950s. A town perilously perches near the edge of this huge open pit.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/mar/10/diamonds-lab-grown-climate-change#img-3
A view of a kimberlite pipe of the Mir diamond mine in eastern Siberia. Photograph: Alexander Ryumin/TASS
Advertisement

“Do you want to tell me this is a good thing?” Weindling asks, rhetorically. “I don’t need science to tell that [lab-grown diamonds] is less bad than that. My eyes tell me that’s a lot worst for our planet. We don’t need to dig these huge holes in the earth any more that are visible from space. We used to hunt whales. We don’t do that any more do we?”
Weindling and a growing number of lab-grown diamond sellers are betting that the upcoming generation of soon-to-be-weds will happily switch from traditional mined diamonds when making their major ring purchase. Weindling pulls up figures showing growing numbers of people are happy to buy their ring online, too, but admits there is a generational gap. “This Gen Z, they are really savvy, they have bullshit meters,” he says. “That said, nobody over 50 will accept a lab-grown diamond – ‘oh don’t give me one of those fake things.’”




Lab-grown diamonds have the same chemical and physical properties as naturally mined diamonds, with even industry experts unable to tell the difference optically. The main giveaway is an “LG” inscribed at the base of the stone.
Diamonds are formed naturally through a combination of heat, pressure and time, growing deep underground until deep-set volcanic eruptions bring them closer to the surface, ready to be excavated. Lab-grown versions recreate this using a fragment of diamond in a sealed chamber which is heated to extreme temperatures - “you heat it to the temperature of the surface of the sun, not the interior of the sun,” Weindling explains – and filled with various gases that add layers to the diamond over a number of days.


The results look remarkably authentic to a layperson. The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) ruled in 2018 that lab-grown diamonds are included in the same definitional universe as mined diamonds but warned against the use of terms like “natural” in marketing that confused the two categories.
Weindling casually hands over an enormous nine-carat cushion cut diamond ring that would be of such rarity if found naturally that it would auction for $5m or $6m. “I’d sell you that for $200,000 very happily,” Weindling says.
“If you’ve ever seen a woman’s face when she puts a diamond on her ring for the first time … God willing if they get pregnant, and now they don’t have that slim body and they’re a little nervous, and they look at that ring, that’s really important,” Weindling adds. “We can’t rip that out of society. However, we can do a lot better in servicing that need without committing this kind of villainy to the planet.”
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/mar/10/diamonds-lab-grown-climate-change#img-4

Miners pan for diamonds near Koidu in north-eastern Sierra Leone in 2004. Photograph: Ben Curtis/AP
The cost savings, as well as the supposed environmental benefits, are well targeted for a generation struggling with debt and the looming horrors of the climate crisis. In response, the established diamond industry has sought to head off this threat by challenging the idea that it is ruinous for the climate.
De Beers, the world’s largest diamond producer, announced plans in 2017 to operate a carbon-neutral mine and pointed out that the FTC has warned lab-grown diamond sellers over the veracity of their environmental claims.
Diamonds are grown in labs in countries including China, Singapore and the US, places that lean heavily upon fossil fuels for energy. The huge amount of power needed to create a diamond can lead to a significant output in carbon pollution if the energy source is dirty, a point made in a 2019 Trucost reportwhich found that, on average, greenhouse gas emissions are three times greater for lab-grown diamonds than their mined counterparts.


“The majority of claims that lab-grown diamonds are more ethical or environmentally friendly do not appear to be based on any discernible ethical or environmental benefit; they simply rely on using outdated or inaccurate perceptions of the natural diamond sector as a point of comparison,” said a De Beers spokesman, who also pointed to the various economic benefits the industry has brought to countries such as Botswana.
The Trucost report, however, was produced on behalf of the Diamond Producers Association, a trade group of diamond miners including De Beers. “The report makes a lot of assumptions, it doesn’t look at the full life cycle of mines, the energy use of exploration and so on – once you consider that then the impact is enormous,” says Saleem Ali, a minerals expert at the University of Delaware.
“There is a place for mined diamonds because they provide a lot more jobs than lab-grown. But I’d venture to say the environmental impact is far greater for mined diamonds. If you grow a diamond you can situate the lab wherever you want, move it to Norway and use hydropower perhaps. You can’t do that with a mine.”
Ultimately, the battleground will be one of marketing. The mined industry-backed “Real is rare” advertising campaign seeks to present diamonds as a sort of fairytale, one that values authenticity and uniqueness. Lab-grown diamonds, by their nature of production, do not fit this industry image of exclusivity.
“One was manufactured in a laboratory and one was formed in the earth over billions of years, so there is a significant difference in value,” says Cathleen McCarthy, founder of the Jewelry Loupe blog. “I would hope the public sees that difference, because it should be reflected in the price they pay.”
Another jewelry blog influencer, Liza Urla of Gemologue, says most aficionados enjoy lab-grown diamonds for everyday, casual uses but items such as engagement rings are a different matter. “Only the real deal will do because a true diamond holds its value,” she says.
Perceptions can shift, however, and the world of diamonds could well be upended by new environmental norms.
“I just want to give people choice. You want to marry a gerbil? Marry a gerbil. God bless,” says Weindling. “I wasn’t here to judge other people, but I can judge myself very harshly. I won’t touch a mined diamond. I have one left, it’s the one I gave my wife 20 years ago. It’s for sale. If you want to buy it, just make me an offer.”

"



"A mined diamond consumes more than 126 gallons of water per carat. Our diamonds, on the other hand, consume just 18 gallons. Mined diamonds also result in “constant discharge of wastewater and pollutants in surface water bodies,” according to a recent research study from Frost & Sullivan.

When it comes to energy, mined diamonds use 538.5 million joules per carat, while grown ones use 250 million. Although this may seem like a lot, the Frost & Sullivan study claims that much of the energy used in creating lab-grown gemstones is renewable.

The difference in carbon emissions on Ethica diamonds and mined diamonds is staggering. According to Frost & Sullivan, while a traditionally mined diamond produces more than 125 pounds of carbon for every single carat, man-made diamonds emit just 6 pounds of carbon – a mere 4.8% of what mined diamonds produce.

Mined diamonds also produce more than 30 pounds of Sulphur oxide, while man-made diamonds produce none. “In terms of overall gaseous emissions, the growth process involves little or no emissions of significance,” Frost & Sullivan’s study reported.

For every carat of diamond that is mined via traditional methods, Frost & Sullivan reports that nearly 100 square feet of land is disturbed and more than 5,798 pounds of mineral waste is created. The mining also offsets delicate biodiversity balances and renders the land unusable – even once mining activities have ceased.

By comparison, our diamonds disrupt just 0.07 square feet of land per carat and only 1 pound of mineral waste. According to Frost & Sullivan’s study, diamond-creating facilities “are often located in areas that have a negligible impact on the environment and have almost no impact on biodiversity in the area of operation.”

"


"
Figures published by Diamond Foundry suggest that the total environmental footprint of mined diamonds is much higher than lab diamonds. “It takes an entire factor more energy to extract an underground diamond from Earth than it takes to create one above ground... On top of this, the energy used in mining is generally dirty diesel versus renewable energy in our above-the-ground production,” says a blog post on their website.

An estimated 250 tonnes of earth is shifted for every single carat of diamond. For context, 148 million carats were mined in 2018. Indeed, some mines are now so huge they can be seen from space using Nasa’s Terra satellite. A 2014 report by consulting firm Frost & Sullivan also showed that mined diamonds require twice as much energy per carat than those grown in a lab. It estimated that 57kg of carbon are released into the atmosphere for every single carat mined.

But the environmental damage from diamond mining goes further than simply its carbon emissions. Diamond mining has been linked to pollution of water sources used by local people due to acid mine drainage. This occurs when minerals from the mined rocks seep into the water supply.

Mining has also caused the destruction of habitats in Canada and beyond. In 2016, The Wall Street Journal reported that De Beers had killed over 18,000 fish draining a Canadian lake for diamond mining. In India, diamond mines have been blamed for placing highly endangered tiger populations under further pressure.

Diamond mining has been linked to pollution of water sources used by local people due to acid mine drainage
"

So, while neither lab diamond nor mined diamond industries are perfect, the wider environmental price from the latter can be higher.

IMO, As more studies are done and info revealed we shall see. But for now it does seem lab created diamonds are, overall, more environmentally friendly than their earth mined counterparts. For a myriad of reasons. Neither option is perfect for the environment but perfect is the enemy of good.
Got your persional oppinions!Thanks!
Financial Time article is quite different. Screenshot_20201030-171050_Samsung Internet.jpg
 
Last edited:

VDK1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
182
@Garry H (Cut Nut) so a good quality 5ct+ colorless graded nature diamond is considered a "good diamond" and both its B2C , B2B price will be increased?
How about the B2C consumer price of 1-2 ct diamond? Thanks!
 

Skyjems

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LLJsmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
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