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How closely are you following Trump's trial, and aftermath?

How closely are you following Trump's trial, and aftermath?

  • Not at all

    Votes: 17 25.8%
  • Very little

    Votes: 17 25.8%
  • Little

    Votes: 4 6.1%
  • Averagely

    Votes: 11 16.7%
  • Much

    Votes: 3 4.5%
  • Very much

    Votes: 10 15.2%
  • As much as possible

    Votes: 4 6.1%

  • Total voters
    66
  • This poll will close: .

Maria D

Brilliant_Rock
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Messages
1,779
And it’s these three things that I was referring to with regard to Trump’s ‘intent’. Given the timing and people we’re talking about, I do not believe Trump needed - nor do I think Trump believed he needed - help beating Joe Biden.
Intent doesn't matter. He did what he is accused of doing, he and his operatives admit it. It also doesn't matter what you or I believe Trump believed. However, his approval rating was low, disapproval rating was/is high, and even now most Trump vs Biden polls favor Biden. FoxNews has Biden at +9.

I believe it’s more reasonable that Trump had valid reasons - long before July 2019 - for believing Joe Biden was involved in some shady shizz involving Ukraine from 2016, and that that shady shizz probably warranted the investigations
There was no push for Ukraine to actually investigate anything. All that was needed was an announcement of investigations and then Ukraine could have their aid. If the U.S. needed for Ukraine to be investigated for our national benefit/security, we would do it ourselves. It would be foolish to trust a country we believe to be corrupt to investigate themselves.

Why would Trump want a simple announcement of possible corruption by Biden? The same reason he wouldn't stop going on and on about Obama's birth certificate, even after it was produced. It sows the seeds of doubt and taints the candidate.
 

Matata

Ideal_Rock
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6,614
Trumpers are asking non trumpers to suspend rational thought to believe that trump who has proved himself to be a liar and crook and has the distinction of being known as the most corrupt president in modern history was concerned about corruption on the part of (fill in the blank). Unbelievable.
 

the_mother_thing

Ideal_Rock
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Mar 2, 2013
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Intent doesn't matter. He did what he is accused of doing, he and his operatives admit it.
Really? Are you serious? Is that the Dems’ new standard, and is that retroactive? If so, can you maybe let Jim Comey know? :lol-2:

Keep drinking the Schiff special and thinking what you want ... you’ll still be calling him ‘President’ for quite awhile.
 

redwood66

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Intent doesn't matter. He did what he is accused of doing, he and his operatives admit it. It also doesn't matter what you or I believe Trump believed. However, his approval rating was low, disapproval rating was/is high, and even now most Trump vs Biden polls favor Biden. FoxNews has Biden at +9.



There was no push for Ukraine to actually investigate anything. All that was needed was an announcement of investigations and then Ukraine could have their aid. If the U.S. needed for Ukraine to be investigated for our national benefit/security, we would do it ourselves. It would be foolish to trust a country we believe to be corrupt to investigate themselves.

Why would Trump want a simple announcement of possible corruption by Biden? The same reason he wouldn't stop going on and on about Obama's birth certificate, even after it was produced. It sows the seeds of doubt and taints the candidate.
I guess "intent" only matters for some then. The irony is delicious.
 
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redwood66

Ideal_Rock
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Really? Are you serious? Is that the Dems’ new standard, and is that retroactive? If so, can you maybe let Jim Comey know? :lol-2:

Keep drinking the Schiff special and thinking what you want ... you’ll still be calling him ‘President’ for quite awhile.
OMG we had the same thought at the same time!
 

Maria D

Brilliant_Rock
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Jan 24, 2003
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Really? Are you serious? Is that the Dems’ new standard, and is that retroactive? If so, can you maybe let Jim Comey know? :lol-2:

Keep drinking the Schiff special and thinking what you want ... you’ll still be calling him ‘President’ for quite awhile.
You lost me here.

Whether or not Trump intended to harm Biden's campaign by withholding aide to Ukraine until Zelensky agreed to announce an investigation into Biden doesn't matter. Maybe Trump did it to harm Biden. Maybe he really believed the Putin fueled conspiracy theories about Ukraine and Crowdstrike. Maybe he was just in a mood and felt like doing a little strong-arming. Who knows and why care?

What matters is that under the direction of Trump, Ukraine aid was threatened to be withheld until Zelensky did what Trump wanted. He admits this. His operatives admit this. It's now up to the Senate to determine whether or not this is acceptable.
 

redwood66

Ideal_Rock
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Aug 22, 2012
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6,753
I can't wrap my head around how it's fine to admit you withheld government aide to another country until they fired employees you thought corrupt, but it's not fine to withhold aide to the same country because of alleged corruption. The only difference is who did it and how much contempt you hold for that person. Oh and "intent" I guess. Frankly we should reexamine all aide we provide to other countries and have terms on its distribution that shall be confirmed.
 

MollyMalone

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Jun 2, 2013
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3,028
I can't wrap my head around how it's fine to admit you withheld government aide to another country until they fired employees you thought corrupt, but it's not fine to withhold aide to the same country because of alleged corruption. The only difference is who did it and how much contempt you hold for that person. Oh and "intent" I guess. Frankly we should reexamine all aide we provide to other countries and have terms on its distribution that shall be confirmed.
One was done openly with Congressional blessing as part of an international effort. The other was done "under the table" and in violation of the Impoundment Control Act. If Trump thought the initiative would burnish his reputation & increase his stature on the world stage, he would have tweeted about it, repeatedly and with CAPS and !!!
 

Maria D

Brilliant_Rock
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Jan 24, 2003
Messages
1,779
I can't wrap my head around how it's fine to admit you withheld government aide to another country until they fired employees you thought corrupt, but it's not fine to withhold aide to the same country because of alleged corruption. The only difference is who did it and how much contempt you hold for that person. Oh and "intent" I guess. Frankly we should reexamine all aide we provide to other countries and have terms on its distribution that shall be confirmed.
POTUS is not being impeached because he withheld aide because of alleged corruption. (Yes, that is what Biden threatened to do.)

Trump and his operatives (I don't say administration because it doesn't appear the entire administration was in on it) wanted an announcement of an investigation. See Sondland's testimony. There was no push for Ukraine to actually investigate anything. All that was needed was an announcement of investigations and then Ukraine could have their aid. If the U.S. needed for Ukraine to be investigated for our national benefit/security, we would do it ourselves. It would be foolish to trust a country we believe to be corrupt to investigate themselves.
 

redwood66

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Aug 22, 2012
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One was done openly with Congressional blessing as part of an international effort. The other was done "under the table" and in violation of the Impoundment Control Act. If Trump thought the initiative would burnish his reputation & increase his stature on the world stage, he would have tweeted about it, repeatedly and with CAPS and !!!
Still doesn't rise to the level of impeachment IMO, and millions of others. It appears as partisan hackery.
 

redwood66

Ideal_Rock
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Aug 22, 2012
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6,753
POTUS is not being impeached because he withheld aide because of alleged corruption. (Yes, that is what Biden threatened to do.)

Trump and his operatives (I don't say administration because it doesn't appear the entire administration was in on it) wanted an announcement of an investigation. See Sondland's testimony. There was no push for Ukraine to actually investigate anything. All that was needed was an announcement of investigations and then Ukraine could have their aid. If the U.S. needed for Ukraine to be investigated for our national benefit/security, we would do it ourselves. It would be foolish to trust a country we believe to be corrupt to investigate themselves.
IMO it's foolish to give billions to corrupt countries in the first place. But lots of skeevy dealings by many US politicians in these corrupt countries. And that's all stripes of politicians.
 

Arkteia

Ideal_Rock
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Nov 3, 2009
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7,537
Not at all.

1) the Senate majority is Republican
2) remember how he said something about shooting someone on 5th Avenue, and still being supported? His base is probably as strong as ever
3) who said that Pence is any better? He was born an Irish Catholic, and was a Democrat. He changed the church, he changed the party. And it is a huge political family.
 

Maria D

Brilliant_Rock
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Joined
Jan 24, 2003
Messages
1,779
Bolton‘s book draft says Trump told Bolton in August that he wanted to continue freezing the aid to Ukraine until they helped with investigations into rivals.

Bolton needs to be questioned under oath.
It won't matter. Bolton is a so-called former National Security Advisor, UN Ambassador, attorney and war veteran who, prior to being fired by Trump (who has the right to fire whomever he wants), served for years under so-called Republican presidents who were definitely lesser than the current POTUS who is the greatest president ever. Bolton is just a bitter old man whom Trump hardly ever spoke to who is now trying to sell books. His testimony would not be credible to Republican senators, so why bother?
 

Karl_K

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Aug 4, 2008
Messages
9,082
Fact is that the democrats and their lapdog media have been crying wolf so much on Trump they have 0 credibility with a large segment of Americans.
Then calling people nasty names just makes people dig in even more.
If they want to understand the rise of Trump and why he will likely be elected again, some people need to just look in the mirror.
 
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JPie

Ideal_Rock
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Feb 12, 2018
Messages
2,625
@Karl_K what was that you were saying about calling people nasty names?

1580143704057.jpeg

And here’s the complete list:

Trump supporters love it when he calls people nasty names, then whine when it happens to them. What true snowflakes!

I hope they have mirrors when they wonder why everyone else thinks they’re nasty, ignorant, or both.
 

redwood66

Ideal_Rock
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Aug 22, 2012
Messages
6,753
Even Bill Maher has said call Trump whatever you want but don't do it to his supporters. There is a difference and if you can't see it then don't be surprised when he is reelected. I could not care less what you call Trump and I don't love it when he calls people any of those things. So stop trying to compare the two.
 

Karl_K

Ideal_Rock
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@Karl_K what was that you were saying about calling people nasty names?

1580143704057.jpeg
Calling politicians by creative nicknames is an age old tradition.
The level of nastiness by the left to regular people is not.

edit:
Reading the list the vast majority of them are funny and not mean or cruel.
 
Last edited:

smitcompton

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Messages
2,583
Hi,

TMT-- Yes, I heard the tape. It seems to me that you have not been following the denials of DT and have become interested in the Senate trial only lately. You have not listened to the witnesses, under oath, many with no political bias, or as in Ambass Sondland"s case, a Trump appointee, testifiy that Marie Yovonawich did not criticize DT and was working against corruption. DT has denied knowing Les Parnas and certainly denies having any knowledge of a, plan to find dirt on Joe Biden and prove that Ukraine was the country that interfered with the election.

Le Parnas was working with Rudy Guiliani and was giving the Pres a report on what was happening. Les Parnas and his partner were both donors to the REpub. or reelection committee and are under indictment for illegal contributions. The tape was shown to prove the Presidents lies.

He can fire Yovonawich, but what was on the tape was a lie. Les Parnas admits it was a lie. DT could have removed her and placed her elsewhere. But, he is a petty vindictive man, who believes disreputable people over his own intelligence agencies. There are more tapes of meeting DT says did not exist and he doesn't know any of them. What is also significant is when the meeting took place. May 2018.

John Bolton told two people from the National Security team to report what they heard to the WH council l. White House Council put the transcript, which we have not seen,(only a summary of such), onto a separate server so no one could access it. John Bolton said he could not participate in such a drug deal. Soon after he quit or was fired.

I do think you hav not kept up with the events and only tune in with missing knowledge. To say Dems wanted to undo the election is not looking at the facts. Those are political arguments. To keep making for this man defies explanation. He is an ignorant thug(that's a political determination)

Annette
 

JPie

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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@redwood66 @Karl_K Trump has gone beyond "age old tradition" and directed his insults to Gold Star parents and a 16-year-old climate change activists, not just other politicians. I really hope you didn't think it was funny when he mocked a disabled reporter.

When you support this man, you have no moral high ground to ask anyone else to stop engaging in the same behavior as your President. I don't give a flying rodent's arse what Bill Maher says.

And last, I am pretty sick and tired of Republicans and Trump supporters wagging their fingers, admonishing people not to be surprised if he gets re-elected. You know what? I fully expect it because there are enough people who've already proven that they don't have enough decency, intelligence, or kindness to vote for someone better. Have the courage to own your poor choices and stop trying to blame it on everyone else for being mean to you.
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
20,724
Only a narcissist of truly mammoth proportions could coin an entirely new word like "Never-Trumper".

It appears to have been accepted, without examination, by the American people.

Trump uses this new "word" for people who criticize him. It has not caught anyone's attention that naming a word after oneself for one's opponents is beyond even the usual bounds of narcissism. Rather than stand with their jaws hanging open at Trump's audacity to make up such an egocentric term, the media have stated to repeat it ad nauseum.
 

Maria D

Brilliant_Rock
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Messages
1,779
Calling politicians by creative nicknames is an age old tradition.
The level of nastiness by the left to regular people is not.

edit:
Reading the list the vast majority of them are funny and not mean or cruel.
Creative nicknames? How disingenuous. Call them what they are: Trump's nicknames are nasty and vindictive. "Low IQ Individual" is funny to you? How about telling Carly Fiorina that no one would want to look at her face? He calls countries where individuals live "sh*t-hole" countries.
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Creative nicknames? How disingenuous. Call them what they are: Trump's nicknames are nasty and vindictive. "Low IQ Individual" is funny to you? How about telling Carly Fiorina that no one would want to look at her face? He calls countries where individuals live "sh*t-hole" countries.
I don't think any other politician is on video mocking someone with a disability that causes him to have spasms.

 

redwood66

Ideal_Rock
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@redwood66 @Karl_K Trump has gone beyond "age old tradition" and directed his insults to Gold Star parents and a 16-year-old climate change activists, not just other politicians. I really hope you didn't think it was funny when he mocked a disabled reporter.

When you support this man, you have no moral high ground to ask anyone else to stop engaging in the same behavior as your President. I don't give a flying rodent's arse what Bill Maher says.

And last, I am pretty sick and tired of Republicans and Trump supporters wagging their fingers, admonishing people not to be surprised if he gets re-elected. You know what? I fully expect it because there are enough people who've already proven that they don't have enough decency, intelligence, or kindness to vote for someone better. Have the courage to own your poor choices and stop trying to blame it on everyone else for being mean to you.
Oh I have plenty of courage of my convictions and choices. Thanks. I guess we're all pretty sick and tired.

ETA - after the past four years there is no moral high ground for anyone to stand on in politics. LOL about wagging fingers. That's all that happens here when Trump is discussed.
 
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missy

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ETA - after the past four years there is no moral high ground for anyone to stand on in politics.
I have to agree with this. All sides are guilty of poor behavior. Though no one has risen (or should I say fallen) to the level of Trump IMO. He’s unique in many ways.
 

JPie

Ideal_Rock
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There's no Democratic equivalent of Trump & Republicans actively vilifying the media as enemy of the people for shining the light on their crimes and misdeeds, Trump withholding aid to Ukraine in violation of the 1974 Impoundment Control Act, Republicans refusing to allow witnesses at an impeachment trial...the list goes on.

It creates a false equivalency to claim that both sides do it.
 

Karl_K

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don't have enough decency, intelligence, or kindness to vote for someone better.
Really?
this is exactly the kinda garbage im talking about.
Just because someone dares to disagree with you they have no decency? intelligence? or kindness?

Maybe if the dems hadn't cheated to put someone so unelectable up they might have won but its unlikely.
Same thing this time around no one electable will be running under the dem badge again most likely.
 

the_mother_thing

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@smitcompton Can you explain why you are making this discussion 'personal' (against forum rules) and attacking me, calling into question my intentions, what I'm following, what I have/have not paid attention to, etc? The fact you feel the need to make it personal and attack me says more about you ... much like the very 'Trump-like' behavior Dems claim to detest.

Newsflash: I'm not on trial, and frankly I don't give a darn what you think. Worry about your own actions & vote, and I'll 'worry' about mine.
 

redwood66

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Aug 22, 2012
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@smitcompton Can you explain why you are making this discussion 'personal' (against forum rules) and attacking me, calling into question my intentions, what I'm following, what I have/have not paid attention to, etc? The fact you feel the need to make it personal and attack me says more about you ... much like the very 'Trump-like' behavior Dems claim to detest.

Newsflash: I'm not on trial, and frankly I don't give a darn what you think. Worry about your own actions & vote, and I'll 'worry' about mine.
The only option for some is to make it personal which is quite comical considering the moral soap box they stand on. It must be awful to be so angry all the time.
 

JPie

Ideal_Rock
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Really?
this is exactly the kinda garbage im talking about.
Just because someone dares to disagree with you they have no decency? intelligence? or kindness?

Maybe if the dems hadn't cheated to put someone so unelectable up they might have won but its unlikely.
Same thing this time around no one electable will be running under the dem badge again most likely.
Disagreeing with me doesn't make someone indecent, unintelligent, or unkind. Supporting a racist, misogynistic liar because you think you might save some money, because you hate brown and black people, etc., on the other hand...

By the way, you never did say whether you think it's funny to mock disabled people and call other countries "shit holes."
 
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