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Help - What do you think of this antique cut cushion?

F

firelover

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2012
Messages
59
I am attaching the ASET image, GIA cert and the image of the diamond itself.

1.5 F VS2


1) There are two inclusions ..Any of them raise a red flag? Is one on the table?

2) Notice the dark (not blue) shadow at 11 oclock. Is that alarming.

All in all what do you antique cushion lovers/experts think of this diamond?

worth a buy? Its $2 - $2.5 K beyond my budget...

Thank you so so much!

6476.jpg

Aset6476.jpg
 

Attachments

It looks beautiful to me :love: Do you have the link to the video?
 
It's gorgeous. And yes, I would buy it-- IF I could afford it. But I am concerned that it is 2k beyond your budget. If you have the flexibility okay. But if you don't... don't do it. Just contact Mark at ERD and ask him to find a similar stone but in budget for you. He can do that.
 
I agree with gypsy - beautiful, but not such a great stone that it's worth overextending your budget. You're probably paying a hefty premium for that high of a color in an antique cut. I would shop around. JbEG, ERD, OWD.
 
I'm a three-peat on that.

A few hundred over --- ok... a few thousand --- I'd say there could be other options out there for you.
 
+4 I have to agree, it's gorgeous but if it's out of budget, it's no so unique that you won't be able to find another in your price range. I know how frustrating it can be trying to find the perfect diamond. I just had to make a big decision about how to spend money we had set aside for my upgrade too and it's a tough choice, but it's also very satisfying knowing that you have spent wisely and responsibly!
 
I didn't read as well as everyone else did, I see now it is two grand over your budget, pass:) I'm assuming your working with ERD have them look for one within your budget. With antique cuts lower colors look really lovely, so I don't see the need to pay for an F color unless your stuck on that. At this time in your lives that money can be put to better use.
 
Dear dear Psers,

Thank you so so much. I really really appreciate your honest opinions. I am feeling so overwhelmed by all this and feel like I won't find the perfect diamond(both in looks and budget) for us. Thank you for bringing me in touch with reality :roll:

I will keep on looking. I have another one in mind - from GOG. Its 1.43 H SI2. Sarah at GOG has confirmed that it is eye clean. This is what I was told -
"SI2s that function like an SI1+ because the inclusions happen to be located in the *perfect* spot.
This one is eye clean when you look at it unless you are examining it closely. Main inclusions are not in the table which is a huge plus."

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9203/

What do you all think?

Thank you.
 
Certainly looks amazing - you have a 30 day return on that so you could order to view it in your lighting conditions and see what you think of it to YOUR eyes. Unless you are in the NYC area, then you could get to Long Island and check it out directly.
 
Enerchi|1335234402|3179038 said:
Certainly looks amazing - you have a 30 day return on that so you could order to view it in your lighting conditions and see what you think of it to YOUR eyes. Unless you are in the NYC area, then you could get to Long Island and check it out directly.
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This is perfect advise. I'd give it a shot and see what you think. At the same time, I really would contact Mark and see what he can get for you. His cushions are MUCH more reasonable in price than GOG's and you might be surprised at what he has that he hasn't had time to load onto the website yet.
 
Gypsy,

2 questions.

AGS Ideal Cut Princess Cuts cost on average about 20-30% more than non ideal princess cuts.
AGS Ideal Cut Rounds cost on average between 15-40% more than non ideal cuts.

First question is ... Why are you not consistent in your counsel to consumers on Pricescope? It appears you only attack or actively steer people away from one diamond that is Ideal or has Ideal light performance. Your inconsistency is obvious to the regulars. If you are to be consistent we should see the same counsel by you on AGS Ideal princess cuts as well as AGS Ideal rounds.

Second question: Why do you think companies cut ideal cut diamonds when they do in fact cost more to cut?
 
Jon, I've been waiting for this to happen AGAIN. I know how outspoken you are in your defense of your pricing of these cushions. And here we are, once again, with you questioning me when you know already know the answers just because you want an opportunity to further your agenda and get on your soap box. Which I am certain you will do right after I post this.

All the hearts and arrows super ideals are marked up similarly by all the vendors that provide a similar level of information. All ideal princesses as well. Yet we on RT, and me included, consistently tell people who are on a budget to go to vendors like ID jewelry or James Allen, who have the ability to provide these stones for slightly less than other vendors. I have recommended GIA Ex/Ex rounds over AGS0's because of pricing differences as well. AND I have even written PARAGRAPHS about why I feel "near ideal' rounds to be a better deal than "super ideal rounds". Here's one such post: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/likelihood-of-finding-a-signature-super-ideal-diamond.174235/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/likelihood-of-finding-a-signature-super-ideal-diamond.174235/[/URL] You've never challenged me for these recommendations or comments. I also routinely call Hearts on Fire" diamonds "Wallets on Fire" for goodness sakes and advise people to consider lower priced super ideals from PS vendors rather than spend the money on the mark up for the HoF diamond. But of course, these AVC's are your babies and you don't carry Hearts on Fire diamonds.

This person is on a budget and looking for a cushion. He was looking at ERD initially and in fact posted about an ERD cushion. I recommended that he check with the vendor to see if they had anything in his budget, and mentioned that ERD's pricing is IN FACT cheaper than yours.

You and ERD and Perry are the only consistent source for antique cushions we have. Perry does not provide ASETs. He only provides videos that are, in my opinion not as helpful so I don't compare his product to yours, or his pricing. Although it is important to note that his pricing is also MUCH lower than yours. Still it's not apples to apples. Mark and ERD however have excellent antique cushions (and non-antique as well) and they are SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than your ideal antique cushions, the provide images and ASETs. He uses GIA you use AGS. Yes you have the ideal from AGS. That is special. But as I noted with rounds in the post above, *I* feel consistently that 'near ideals' or excellents can be a much better value than super ideals when those super ideals come with a huge markup and the near ideals or excellents do not. And some of Marks cushions can compete head to head with your ideals anyway.

So, in fact I am only being consistent in calling out that similar good are available out there for less from different vendors across all shapes. So why would I tell someone who is already looking at ERD to go with your higher priced goods when they are here to get ADVICE and PERSPECTIVE from people, like me, who have looked at all the vendors goods and know what their pluses and minuses are and are hoping for HONEST advice?

Contrary to your post, I am actually doing exact same thing I would do with posters who are looking for ideal rounds and princesses on a budget. Telling them the truth about the vendors pricing. There is no inconsistency. The only difference is that the AVC's are your babies so you feel entitled to pop in an challenge me every few months, so that you can then have your soapbox and defend your profit margin.

I've never bought from Mark and I have never bought from you. There is a reason for that. Both of you have dropped the ball in one way or another when I've contacted you for service. So that playing field is completely equal. So let's move on to the rest.

You mentioned facts... here are a few for you to ponder:

Let's compare these two:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9202/ 1.53 H SI2

http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/this-cut-beyond-vintage-cushion-brilliant-has-been-sold.-gid-74061.html 1.71 H SI1

The GOG cushion is significantly smaller. And the clarity is one grade lower. The ASETs are comparable and actually I like the contrast pattern of the ERD cushion more than your AVC's ASET even though the later does show more red. The price is 18,000!!! and the ERD cushion which is bigger, has better clarity and lovely performance was just sold at 10,700.

That's SEVEN THOUSAND DOLLARS DIFFERENCE. Do you EVER see that with rounds and princesses? NO. You know why? Because there are MANY vendors that have sources for ideal rounds and they keep the pricing markups for these ideals consistent. It's an example of competition in the marketplace keeping the prices under control.

But with cushions-- those GOG has little competition from ANYONE so it is MUCH more difficult for buyers to look at your prices and say... hey, these prices are kinda high. And now that ERD is providing some competition you chose to attack ME, for pointing out the truth rather than look to your own pricing practices for fault. You have a near monopoly on these cushions so you feel entitled to charge what you will. FINE. But don't expect people not to notice and comment.

Here is another fun fact to ponder:

What does 32k buy you at GOG:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8157/ TWO carat G VS2

What does 32k buy you at ERD:
http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/3.02-carat-g-si1-a-cut-beyond-cushion-cut-diamond-gid-68267.html THREE carat G SI1

That's ONE FULL CARAT difference and with only one clarity grade difference between the two!!!! If someone is looking for finger coverage, do you want me to ignore the FACT that their budget will get them farther with ERD than GOG?

Diamondseeker has stated on here again and again that she feels BGD has very high priced diamonds. Have you seen Brian come on here and defend his pricing margins? No. Well, I'm going to advise that you follow his example on this Jon.

Stop challenging me just because you are upset that there is another vendor who is undercutting your monopoly prices and threatening your profit margins. Not my fault. Not my problem. But, yes as long as the inconsistency exists I will point it out to people, like this one, on a budget looking for the best stone for their budget. And for your information BEST is subjective and it my pleasure to point out options and facts that new buyers, like this one, may not know to ask about in their quest to find what they consider best for them. And I will do so within the forum rules. Just as I always have.
 
Are you totally committed to the square-ish shape? I know you can't ask a secondary market seller for ASETs, but other than ratio, this seems to have a lot of what you're looking for at a much better price:

http://diamondbistro.com/category/215/Loose-natural-Diamonds/listings/28185/Close-out!-152-ct-antique-cushion-H-VS2.html

And FWIW I know a few people who love GOG's stones but can't stomach their prices. Whether Gypsy points it out or not, sacrificing all that finger coverage is hard to take.
 
I love that cushion Miss Step Cut linked.

I also think it is worth seeing the Si2 in person, and perhaps calling out a stone from mark in your price range at the same time to compare in person.
 
First, Gypsy makes a series of excellent points. I'd been aware of the discrepancy, though not of its breadth - and, even if it were narrower, it would be irresponsible not to point out alternatives. ERD is the only other place cutting for light performance as such (albeit, to a different set of criteria) and offering ASETs. So of course they're relevant to the discussion. PS can sometimes function as a little bit of an echo chamber - I think posters who point out alternative vendors should be applauded, not pilloried!

Least of all by the vendors under discussion, which brings me to my second point.

I'm a little surprised that, on a consumer board, a vendor would come on to rebuke a regular poster for an objectively true statement (i.e., that Mark's prices are lower), all other factors aside. Defend the reasoning behind your pricing, by all means - I'm on the vendors side something like 75% of the time in these discussions! - but going on the attack to ask a poster to defend the body of her comments seems like dirty pool. Gypsy can stand up for herself, obvs, but it does make me wonder if it could put newer or less confident posters off of open discussion.

Firelover, I don't know if ideal light performance is at the top of your list of priorities, or if you're willing to consider true antiques or modern stones that are cut to antique standards by different methods ... but if you are, I'd also recommend checking out the selection from Jewels by Erica Grace, Old World Diamonds, and Diamonds by Lauren. The two former have a broad selection of cushions - no ASETs, but the vendors know how to recognize good stones, and I've yet to hear about them selling a dud to a PSr. The latter is also cutting a line of old-style cushions, though for different reasoning - he's cutting to maximize color, which, if you're at all interested in fancies, might be worth taking a look at.

P.S. - Is it wrong that I wanted to post "Oh Snap! A Flowchart" to lighten the mood? Am resisting temptation because tone gets lost on the internets, but .... :ugeek: :mrgreen:
 
I think the stone is a beauty!

Gypsy, you know I love you and appreciate all your advice, but as a neutral observer, it seems like you have some sort of personal grudge against Jonathan. :confused: Not just based on this post, but on others as well.
 
Umm...I really dont know what to say here so I will continue the discussion. Thank you Gypsy for your honest opinion. I am looking for all perspectives. I want to make an informed decision and this helps a lot!

I have been talking to Chris at ERD. The first diamond is from him. its his A cut beyond vintage cushion. But its $2K beyond my budget. On asking him to provide some options in A Cut Beyond category - He sayds he doesnt have any and will not have something in near future. Now what should I do?

- I have looked at the pre-loved diamond. Its a beautiful diamond but I can't seem to get past the rectangular shape and how its set east-west(?)

- I have been looking at JbEG but will look at Old World Diamonds and Diamonds by Lauren.

Any advice folks? anything you can find me with your experience in antique cut cushions. I am not tied to having these branded cushions its just I like how they look...so if I can something close but unbranded I would consider myself lucky.

Thanks
 
Thank you slg..I have contacted Perry about this diamond. I have missed a boat a couple of times (didn't recognize a good deal) and now I am not getting anything in my price range...

Chris @ ERD has mentioned that the price of the rough has gone up so the prices of the diamonds have gone up as well. So anything that comes up new is going to higher priced..Funny thing is He quoted me a highter price for the diamond when he emailed me yesterday and it wasnt up on the website and now its on the website and the price is $1K lesser....I wonder if they are open to a little more negotiation.... :naughty:
 
Have you tried Ari at Single Stone? I'm in the process of acquiring an antique cushion from them and they are amazing to work with.
 
First, I'll address the most important person in this thread, the OP, Firelover.

What I would do if it were me.

I'd ask Perry if he can take an ASET image of the diamonds he would suggest for your budget. If you have to (I really would do this) offer to buy him a handheld ASET for 50 bucks ( http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_zoom_item.asp?Id=23&ShowAdd=Y ) and have him take the image for you. It's cheaper than an appraiser. OR you can have the diamond sent to you and buy an ASET and see what it shows you.

I'd put the GOG cushion on hold though. THEN if you have the flexibility to buy the GOG H SI2 then do so and see what you think of it yourself. You can always talk to Jonathan yourself and try to negotiate the pricing as well. I'm not saying it will WORK, but it is always an option. But if it's the right stone for you, and you don't want to wait 6 months to see what pops up, it might be worth it to you to pay for that stone (provided it is eyeclean). Even *I* would be willing to pay more for the exact perfect stone. I would just want to KNOW that I was paying more, and make an educated decision rather than an ignorant one. That's important to me, and what I try to help posters like you to understand. There are always trade offs and compromises, unless you have an unlimited budget, and even then there might not be what you want available at the time you want it.

IF you can buy both and see them side by side, that might be best. Because that way you can compare them side by side.

ALTERNATELY: You can ask GOG and Perry to send (on memo, you wouldn't buy them) to either a local independent appraiser where you could go and see them OR to someone local in NYC like David Wolfe and see what he says. David will cost you about 250 bucks including shipping.

PERSONALLY, I really like the cushion on Diamond Bistro. But I have a preference for rectangular stones. I wouldn't buy the setting, just the cushion itself. Cause it's lovely and a great deal. But I understand if it's not the stone for you. When you are spending this kind of money a deal isn't a deal at any price unless you get what you want.
 
Laila619|1335279935|3179386 said:
Gypsy, you know I love you and appreciate all your advice, but as a neutral observer, it seems like you have some sort of personal grudge against Jonathan. :confused: Not just based on this post, but on others as well.
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Laila, honestly? It's the other way around.

If anyone has a vendetta it's Jon against me. This is the second time Jon has rebuked me for commenting about his AV pricing on here. And the third time total, including on FB.

I didn't attack Jonathan in this post, nor have I attacked him in any other that I know of. He attacked me. And he's done so a number of times in the past as well. Here's just one example: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/good-old-gold-clarity-enhanced-diamond.170492/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/good-old-gold-clarity-enhanced-diamond.170492/[/URL] I stated my opinion and in that thread my GOAL was to help him and he took offense to what I said (regardless of the fact that others had the same opinion) and tried to hammer me with it.

In the end he apologized when he realized he was wrong in that thread. Yet, here we are with him disliking when I state another fact: his AV line is expensive. And it's not just on PS that his conduct has been wearying for me. It's on FB and in my personal email. He contacted ME when I posted on here that was looking for an OEC last year to tried to sell me on his AVRs. I never contacted him, NOT ONCE, about that purchase (only time I contacted him was when I was looking for a pear and that was a separate and distinct episode) and only posted it on here. That's way out of bounds of what I accept from vendors normally. And IN FACT: when WF did a similar thing to me I posted on here exposing them for it and stopped referring them altogether! ( [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-would-you-do-if-a-vendor-privately-solicited-your-business-through-your-involvement-on-this-sit.108263/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-would-you-do-if-a-vendor-privately-solicited-your-business-through-your-involvement-on-this-sit.108263/[/URL] ). I didn't do that GOG and this is the FIRST TIME I'm even complaining about it? Why? Because I do actually like Jon and I've met him in person and I understand that hard sales tactics are just part of his personality. So I excused it. And in FACT I continue to recommend them (which I do not do with WF TO THIS DAY!). Here are two posts where I am HELPING him in the last 24 hours alone:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/im-new-and-i-need-some-advice.174620/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/im-new-and-i-need-some-advice.174620/[/URL] Where I recommend Jon for ovals and for Beverly K settings.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/french-cut-melee-with-modern-round-brilliant.174597/#post-3179234#p3179234']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/french-cut-melee-with-modern-round-brilliant.174597/#post-3179234#p3179234[/URL] Where I suggest reaching out to Jon to ask about Square Hearts and Arrows inventory-- actually if you LOOK at this post it's similar to THIS ONE where I tell the op the same thing, only about ERD-- contact the vendor if you don't see what you want and see if they can get it for you.

Are those the actions of someone with a vendetta?


All *I* am is weary of having to defend myself against Jon, and admittedly being challenged by him makes me cranky for the reasons Circe so eloquently articulated:

Circe|1335279703|3179383 said:
I'm a little surprised that, on a consumer board, a vendor would come on to rebuke a regular poster for an objectively true statement (i.e., that Mark's prices are lower), all other factors aside. Defend the reasoning behind your pricing, by all means - I'm on the vendors side something like 75% of the time in these discussions! - but going on the attack to ask a poster to defend the body of her comments seems like dirty pool.
Click to expand...


I have only said three honest things that could be negative about GOG on these boards: One: The AV's, in my opinion, are expensive. Two: The maltese cross under the table on the AVC line is not to my personal taste, but I always acknowledge that's a personal thing. Three: Having worked with Charles at GOG for a pear unsuccessfully I was disappointed by my experience and felt it was too bad that in order to get proper service I had to work with Jon directly because his staff weren't trained as well as they could be.

Jon would be best off burying his ax against ME. Because while I don't have vendettas against vendors I DO have a sh*t list and while GOG isn't on it yet, if Jon persists he's going to be jockeying with DBL for obnoxious vendor status on that list.
 
firelover|1335296180|3179616 said:
Umm...I really dont know what to say here so I will continue the discussion. Thank you Gypsy for your honest opinion. I am looking for all perspectives. I want to make an informed decision and this helps a lot!

I have been talking to Chris at ERD. The first diamond is from him. its his A cut beyond vintage cushion. But its $2K beyond my budget. On asking him to provide some options in A Cut Beyond category - He sayds he doesnt have any and will not have something in near future. Now what should I do?

- I have looked at the pre-loved diamond. Its a beautiful diamond but I can't seem to get past the rectangular shape and how its set east-west(?)

- I have been looking at JbEG but will look at Old World Diamonds and Diamonds by Lauren.

Any advice folks? anything you can find me with your experience in antique cut cushions. I am not tied to having these branded cushions its just I like how they look...so if I can something close but unbranded I would consider myself lucky.

Thanks
Click to expand...
If you don't care for rectangular shapes whatsoever, that's definitely the end of that, but if you just don't like rectangles set east-west, that listing is for the stone alone. I promise the stone won't remember its previous orientation and hold it against you :wink2:
 
MissStepcut|1335337055|3180106 said:
firelover|1335296180|3179616 said:
- I have looked at the pre-loved diamond. Its a beautiful diamond but I can't seem to get past the rectangular shape and how its set east-west(?)
Click to expand...
If you don't care for rectangular shapes whatsoever, that's definitely the end of that, but if you just don't like rectangles set east-west, that listing is for the stone alone. I promise the stone won't remember its previous orientation and hold it against you :wink2:
Click to expand...


ROFLMAO. :lol:
 
Gypsy|1335337265|3180108 said:
MissStepcut|1335337055|3180106 said:
firelover|1335296180|3179616 said:
- I have looked at the pre-loved diamond. Its a beautiful diamond but I can't seem to get past the rectangular shape and how its set east-west(?)
Click to expand...
If you don't care for rectangular shapes whatsoever, that's definitely the end of that, but if you just don't like rectangles set east-west, that listing is for the stone alone. I promise the stone won't remember its previous orientation and hold it against you :wink2:
Click to expand...

ROFLMAO. :lol:
Click to expand...


Ditto that!!! I'm sure the stones memory skills are short lived!! :lol: :lol:
 
Back to the question at hand:

I think it is an absolutely gorgeous stone and if you can, I would try to see it in person. Be careful not to drool all over it, because it might affect the optics. ; )

To the other questions on the other hands

Some people want optics that are as guaranteed as possible, especially for such an important purchase. The GOG branded stones are as close to a guarantee on that as you can get, imho. And the argument as far as I've heard it is that the research and development to produce these are reflected in their price, and I think that's fair, if what you want is that kind of performance.

That's obviously not to say that beautiful diamonds need that kind of "guarantee". I have seen some drop dead gorgeous ones from ERD and Perry and DBL is also doing some pretty sweet cuts now. But while these others may or may not produce asets to help you assess, you are more with these vendors trusting their eye. Nothing wrong with that at all. Whereas if you like the "looks" of the AVCs then you know they will be exquisite performers.

I have never worked with ERD. I have met Rock Diamond, for my ering I worked with Leon and sourced my cushion with Perry, and have had AVC's and now currently rock an insanely amazing 3 stone AVR ring. I also have to say that Jon, just personally, is one of my favorite vendors. So if I have any bias PRO GOG it's cause the store is like going to heaven and I think Jon is awesome. Take that for what you will, lol.

I did an extensive write up of my Perry/Leon source antique cushion and the AVR's. Maybe someone here can find the link to it? It is, if I dare say so myself, a piece of fine fine literature on the pros and cons of each. Nobel prize quality work :naughty:

But I think you might find it helpful if the this discussion veering off into the woods has you wanting more info.

Best always, Debs
 
Gypsy - The stone that Perry sent me info for has been sold and so are other two contenders from Perry that others were referring to. I have ordered the kit from idealoscope and will be taking with me when I visit Perry. I have asked Perry to find me more diamonds. I hope he can find me something that I would like.

GOG - They can only hold a diamond for 3 days. So I dont even know what to do at this point in time.

Also, the rectangular diamond ( you all are so funny! :appl: ) is beautiful but I don't like the elongated shape. The most rectangular I could with would be like Miss Debby's ring diamond.

Gypsy - I cant thank you enough.

Miss Debby - I loved reading your post. Very informative. I fell in love with your ring!!!! I have loved that setting from LM from day one and it looks spectacular. I couldnt believe from the looks of the ring that your diamond is 1 carat . It looks so much bigger and its beautiful.
Also, I like the slightly-rectangular shape of the center stone...

I just wish I am able to find something I love while staying in my budget. I need help and support( getting kind of discouraged :cry: )

Thanks again!
 
You are more than welcome. Anytime.
I'd go to Perry with your ASET and see what happens. Take it from there. Also while you are there you can also visit Steven Kirsch if you like. He used to work with Leon and he did my halo. I prefer his customer service and personality to Leon. Just to give another option on settings. I can''t to see where your journey takes you.
 
OP if you like the BD cushion then set it NS ;)) I personally would take the slightly elongated shape, which is likely less obvious when set NS, for the large savings. But that is me.
 
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