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Help from Pandora or anyone with blue sapphire knowledge..

nehap1986

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
22
Hi guys,

I've been on a long hunt for the perfect sapphire. It's been a trying process and while I know many people say the hunt is the best part, i'm starting to get disconcerted with my hunt. Maybe i'm aiming too high? I've looked at 15-20 different sapphires (that might not be much for you experts), but each of them has one problem or another.

Many of them lack the brilliance/sparkle that i'm looking for, have issues with color zoning, and/or have issues with the tone being too dark and almost looking black or dark blue in some lighting. The latest one which I had high hopes for as it came from a reputable seller I read about through PS (I won't release the name as I have high hopes that they will deal with this issue with integrity and not blame me) has a chip on the top (it almost looks like another facet, but clearly isn't).

If any of you have any other suggestions, please let me know. I've looked at Pala International, Simply Sapphires, Richard Wise, and a ton of local jewelers.

I'm looking for a square, blue cushion (around 2-2.5 carats) with awesome sparkle, no color zoning, and not too dark of a tone (the color should last in all lighting). I don't care if it's heated or unheated and realistically, my price for the center stone is up to 7k. Maybe that's the problem?

Pandora or anyone else who can help with Pala pricing - would you be so kind to check the pricing on the following items?

Inventory #: 19028
http://www.palagems.com/php/db_search.php?action=gemdetail&inventory_number=19028

Inventory#:19000

Inventory#:17111
http://www.palagems.com/php/db_search.php?action=gemdetail&inventory_number=17711
 

kt

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 30, 2003
Messages
286
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone who can get Pala Gems Pricin

Nehap - you might want to try to give my jeweler a call - Jeff Badler - he's in the Diamond District in NYC and sourced my sapphire for me in my ring:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/finally-a-blueberry-to-call-my-own.161796/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/finally-a-blueberry-to-call-my-own.161796/[/URL]

He helped design my 3-stone setting.

He had a smaller stone in the size you are looking for that was the little sister to my stone - seriously, the color etc. was identical and it was a square cushion, so if you like my pics, you might want to consider this stone if he still has it (i had a hard time picking between the two). It would defnitely be well within your budget. It's a heated stone but my stone holds its color extremely well in all kinds of lighting. Just a thought.
 

movie zombie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
11,879
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone who can get Pala Gems Pricin

my understanding is that you go to a jeweler who works with Pala and that jeweler finds out for you.
 

nehap1986

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
22
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone who can get Pala Gems Pricin

Thank you for the information KT. I will definitely reach out to your source. Do you have his contact information by any chance? If you are not uncomfortable, if I can reference you so that he remembers the stone you are speaking of that would be great. The stone you have is beautiful!

Thank you!
 

kt

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 30, 2003
Messages
286
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone with blue sapphire knowledge

He's easily on google and his website is his last name. Feel free to reference me, he's done a ton of stuff for me (katie = kt!) and this ring was very recent so he should remember (i hope!). Im on my iPad or I would post a (bad) pic of the sister stone next to mine - I took a pic of both stones and sat on it for a weekend trying to decide! Will try to do so tomorrow but I would also still pursue the pala route if I were you.
 

nehap1986

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
22
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone with blue sapphire knowledge

Thanks for the information. If you have pictures, that would be great, but I will give him a call tomorrow and see what he says.

I will definitely go the Pala route. If Pandora can get me prices, that would be great. If not, I will see if a local jeweler from the list on their website would be willing to do a call and check on it for me. I've noticed that Pala prices are a bit more expensive, so they might be way out of my price range, but definitely worth asking.

If anyone else has any ideas, PLEASE chime in!
 

Michael_E

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 19, 2003
Messages
1,290
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone with blue sapphire knowledge

nehap1986|1310527693|2967771 said:
Pandora or anyone else who can help with Pala pricing - would you be so kind to check the pricing on the following items?

Inventory #: 19028
http://www.palagems.com/php/db_search.php?action=gemdetail&inventory_number=19028

Inventory#:19000

Inventory#:17111
http://www.palagems.com/php/db_search.php?action=gemdetail&inventory_number=17711
Either of these stones is WAY over your budget by a factor of probably 2.5 to 3 times depending on who you're buying from. Sorry, but these types of stones are the tops and so are never inexpensive, (or even moderately expensive). ;(
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,517
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone with blue sapphire knowledge

You are setting a rather difficult additional specification of needing it to be a square. Also, note that sapphires don't really sparkle a lot, compared to other gemstones. I think TL found a decent looking 2 carat rectangular blue sapphire for $600 that's not too light, nor too dark but as I said earlier, it's not going to be easy to find a square.

If you need the parameters to be that tight, try contacting Jeff White of www.whitesgems.com to see if he has any medium toned (not medium dark) sapphire rough that he can facet into a square stone. This way, the precision cutting will net you a lively stone and your $7K budget should be fine.
 

kt

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 30, 2003
Messages
286
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone with blue sapphire knowledge

So I took these shots in questionable lighting but you saw how my stone is in the finished ring I posted! These stones were identical in color, and I ended up going with the bigger one :naughty: but I will say it was a hard decision to make as I wasn't sure if I could pull it off! But both stones were absolutely gorgeous. You should definitely ask Jeff if the smaller one is still available, and he's wonderful to work with.

two stones.JPG
 

nehap1986

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
22
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone with blue sapphire knowledge

Thanks for all of the information, guys.

Definitely think my budget and specifications are a bit stringent and thus is making it really hard for me to find the "perfect" stone. Well - i'm glad i'm back to reality and figured those pala gems were expensive (didn't think they would be 2.5-3 times more expensive), but good to know that it's not even close in my budget.

I will contact Jeff and see if he still has the 2nd stone that you didn't end up going with.

Finally - in terms of the stone color. I hear that medium might be the way to go if i'm looking for a stone that holds its color in all kinds of lighting, but am worried "medium" might be too light. Any idea of what type of color a "medium" colored stone would be?

I guess I should have realized that sapphires aren't going to have the same level of "sparkle" as some other stones.

Any other information for sources and/or ideas based on my specs are greatly appreciated.

Thank you all!
 

nehap1986

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
22
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone with blue sapphire knowledge

KT - I forgot to ask you. I know you said the color was identical. Was the cut and "brilliance/sparkle" of the smaller just as nice as yours, as well? Did you notice any color zoning and/or tone problems?

Thank you!!!
 

kt

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 30, 2003
Messages
286
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone with blue sapphire knowledge

There was a good link on here to another PS'ers sapphire and stones that hold color...I will see if I can find it but it provided great perspective for me and what to expect from my stone.
 

kt

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 30, 2003
Messages
286
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone with blue sapphire knowledge

that reminds me, Gemfix.com had some really nice ones, too.
 

nehap1986

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
22
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone with blue sapphire knowledge

Maybe that's my problem! Thanks for the reference. That 7 carat you referenced me to is YUMMY. I love that color. Would a medium tone like that have the same wow factor as a medium/dark?
 

deorwine

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 5, 2005
Messages
326
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone with blue sapphire knowledge

Chrono, wow, to me all the sapphires on that page look the same tone! Does that last one really look lighter in tone to everyone else? I'm going to have to calibrate either my monitor or my eyes...

ETA: nehap, in your 15-20 sapphire search, did you ever find one that held its color/tone in all lights as you would like, or are they all dark? If you found one, can you describe it? If not, I think you may be too harsh on poor sapphires. (I'm the same way -- I went through 15-20 before I learned to love the sapphire for what it was.) I've found that anything below a medium-light won't hold its tone for me in low indoor lighting unless there's light directly on the stone, but medium light is way too light for me outdoors.

Medium seems to be my sweet spot. I love the bright blue ("cornflower"-ish, although I hate that term) of it, and my medium sapphire looks very saturated to me, but it might be a little light for you given the kinds of sapphires you've linked to in this thread, which are more deep in tone than I'd consider a medium to be.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,517
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone with blue sapphire knowledge

The wow factor in all those pictures is not the tone, but in the saturation, explained a little below:
http://www.palagems.com/quality_4cs.htm
 

nehap1986

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
22
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone with blue sapphire knowledge

In the 15 or so sapphires i've looked at, none of them have held the color in medium lighting. If it's in direct sunlight, it looks great, if it's under direct lamp light, it's great, but if I take it into normal day lighting (say in an office where this is natural sunlight coming in), it will become pretty dark.

I went to an appraiser to show him 5 or so of the ones I thought had a chance, and he also thought the tone was too dark (even when placing it directly under lighting).

Maybe a medium color would be more in line with what i'm looking for. I do like the medium/dark, but if I have to sacrifice on something, I think i'd sacrifice on the color a little bit if it meant I get everything else. I do really like the medium cornflower bluish colors as well (if that's what you want to call it), but haven't found anything that is excellent in all other aspects or even in that color.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
23,283
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone with blue sapphire knowledge

nehap1986|1310579085|2968167 said:
In the 15 or so sapphires i've looked at, none of them have held the color in medium lighting. If it's in direct sunlight, it looks great, if it's under direct lamp light, it's great, but if I take it into normal day lighting (say in an office where this is natural sunlight coming in), it will become pretty dark.

I went to an appraiser to show him 5 or so of the ones I thought had a chance, and he also thought the tone was too dark (even when placing it directly under lighting).

Maybe a medium color would be more in line with what i'm looking for. I do like the medium/dark, but if I have to sacrifice on something, I think i'd sacrifice on the color a little bit if it meant I get everything else. I do really like the medium cornflower bluish colors as well (if that's what you want to call it), but haven't found anything that is excellent in all other aspects or even in that color.
I would try to find a lighter toned sapphire then, medium to medium light tone. Even the Diana/Kate sapphire goes "black" in certain lighting. There are some very saturated stones in the medium tone category, so I don't think you're sacraficing on color simply because you're not going medium dark or darker. Personally, I don't care for medium dark sapphires. Some of the most beautiful stones I've ever seen have been in medium to medium light tones.

Saturation of color is not the same as tone (lightness or darkness of the stone). They only affect each other when the stone is either very light or very dark in tone. Saturation of color of the medium tones (medium light, medium and medium dark) does not seem to be affected by tonality that much. I actually prefer a pure medium tone when I am looking at various hues (hues are the colors you see in the visible spectrum).
 

deorwine

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 5, 2005
Messages
326
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone with blue sapphire knowledge

nehap, my medium blue sapphire does well in low light as long as there is direct light shining on it. If not, even medium lighting it will go pretty dark unless there is diffuse light (e.g., from a window -- it does very well in my house if diffused light from the window with blinds is falling on it). As I said in Amelia's thread, I was very conflicted about this and posted about it here: https://www.pricescope.com/communit...ires-what-are-reasonable-expectations.161746/.

You may even want to look at a medium-light sapphire. TL kindly linked me to sleepyspinel's stone that holds its sparkliness in all lights here: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ss-big-blue-ring-has-arrived.142570/ and that one is medium-light. Medium-light is too light for me for outdoors light, though. However, I cannot deny that sleepyspinel's stone is quite saturated!

I think (please, people with more experience correct me if I am wrong!) it is impossible to find a stone that is a gorgeous deep color outside and doesn't go dark inside -- just the nature of sapphires and the color blue, I think. Either you get one that's lighter than optimum (for me at least) outdoors and is gorgeous indoors, or one that's perfect tone outdoors and dark indoors -- they just vary so much in tone from high light to low light situations.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
23,283
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone with blue sapphire knowledge

deorwine|1310586004|2968252 said:
I think (please, people with more experience correct me if I am wrong!) it is impossible to find a stone that is a gorgeous deep color outside and doesn't go dark inside.
I respectfully disagree as I own such a stone. It is a medium light tone.

In various lighting, a stone may do the following:
1)They may lose significant amount of saturation and/or
2) they may go darker in tone, which may affect saturation as well, and/or
3) they may color shift, which also may affect saturation.

I can live with 2 & 3, as long as saturation isn't drastically affected.
 

kt

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 30, 2003
Messages
286
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone with blue sapphire knowledge

Nehap - i missed your earlier question. I was very strict in terms of no zoning in the stone and so no, the smaller stone didn't have any zoning and both are eyeclean. It was, like I mentioned, pretty much identical to the larger one - cut, color, zoning (or lack thereof), "sparkle" (though I have to tell you my stone doesn't sparkle like a diamond does - it's not in the nature of sapphires, so it's not like my e-ring). Both stones I looked at right side up, as well as through the pavilion to make sure there wasn't anything funky going on (I had looked at an oval from another vendor and while it faced up eye clean,the other side showed zoning so there was no way I knew I could be happy with that!). Jeff knows I can be kind of critical so he edited a ton of stones before presenting me with these and a couple of others.

Not sure what you mean by "tone" - as in, blue saturation? Then both were again the same. Really, I feel like they must've been cut from the same rough or something!
 

LD

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
9,699
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone with blue sapphire knowledge

deorwine|1310586004|2968252 said:
nehap, my medium blue sapphire does well in low light as long as there is direct light shining on it. If not, even medium lighting it will go pretty dark unless there is diffuse light (e.g., from a window -- it does very well in my house if diffused light from the window with blinds is falling on it). As I said in Amelia's thread, I was very conflicted about this and posted about it here: https://www.pricescope.com/communit...ires-what-are-reasonable-expectations.161746/.

You may even want to look at a medium-light sapphire. TL kindly linked me to sleepyspinel's stone that holds its sparkliness in all lights here: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ss-big-blue-ring-has-arrived.142570/ and that one is medium-light. Medium-light is too light for me for outdoors light, though. However, I cannot deny that sleepyspinel's stone is quite saturated!

I think (please, people with more experience correct me if I am wrong!) it is impossible to find a stone that is a gorgeous deep color outside and doesn't go dark inside -- just the nature of sapphires and the color blue, I think. Either you get one that's lighter than optimum (for me at least) outdoors and is gorgeous indoors, or one that's perfect tone outdoors and dark indoors -- they just vary so much in tone from high light to low light situations.
Not quite true. Most sapphires will have a shift of colour but some are MUCH more noticeable than others. My sapphire is one of the few I've seen that hold its colour in all lighting conditions. The shift is minimal. I have to say that I compromised with this stone as it's a poorly cut gem and much smaller than I would normally go for (just over 1ct). The trick is to see a lot of stones and evaluate each in all lighting conditions.

Top two photos are taken indoors and the bottom is in natural daylight (if I remember correctly)!

Sapphire Blue3.JPG

Sapphire trim .JPG

Sapphire3_1_1.JPG
 

deorwine

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 5, 2005
Messages
326
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone with blue sapphire knowledge

TL|1310586994|2968260 said:
deorwine|1310586004|2968252 said:
I think (please, people with more experience correct me if I am wrong!) it is impossible to find a stone that is a gorgeous deep color outside and doesn't go dark inside.
I respectfully disagree as I own such a stone. It is a medium light tone.
TL and LD, I meant to say it is impossible to find a stone with *deep tone*, not (just) saturated color (I guess I didn't actually say that! Everyone should read my mind :tongue: ) that doesn't go dark inside. TL, your stone is medium light tone, as is sleepyspinel's, and LD, yours looks medium-to-medium-light to my eye (though gosh, how beautiful... my goal is to find a stone like that! Can you help? :) )
 

nehap1986

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
22
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone with blue sapphire knowledge

Ditto on that - I love the color of your stone. Maybe that has been my problem, after all. That is a gorgeous color!
 

movie zombie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
11,879
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone with blue sapphire knowledge

LovingDiamonds|1310587603|2968270 said:
deorwine|1310586004|2968252 said:
.... I have to say that I compromised with this stone as it's a poorly cut gem and much smaller than I would normally go for (just over 1ct). The trick is to see a lot of stones and evaluate each in all lighting conditions.
but you didn't compromise re color and/or color shift. :appl: i'd say you made the right choice!

good advice.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
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Messages
23,283
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone with blue sapphire knowledge

LD,
Your stone may be a lot smaller, but your stone puts this one to shame (at least in every photo I've ever seen of this famous gem :knockout: ). I hate to say this, but THIS (below) is NOT what you want your sapphire to do in artificial light.

kate-middleton-engagement-ring.jpg
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
23,283
Re: Help from Pandora or anyone with blue sapphire knowledge

My sapphire is a medium light tone, and although not as saturated as LD's stone, I like it a lot. It has a color shift to it in various lighting.

It does not go black, thank heavens!!

TLcolorshiftsapphire.JPG

TLsapphire_videostill.JPG
 
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