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Height of New 5 Stone Bezel Ring

elrohwen

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
5,534
After allowing the current jeweler to go this far, would it be ethical to take this project to another jeweler?

She still claims she can make the ring.
Yes still ethical. She isn’t producing what you want after lots of input from you. Tell her it’s not working and move on
 

starbrite

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
77
When I complained about the end bezels now looking lop sided, the jeweler changed the metal color (because I did ask for a change to yellow gold filigree) and just resent an older rendering that I'd previous had a problem with & already told her I didn't like. The latest rendering now looks like that but with yellow gold...

Here's what has been going on:
HistoryBezelRingProblems.jpg


LopSided.jpg

I'm not sure if the jeweler is the problem or if what I want in this ring really can't be properly done. But after she sent me renderings with totally lop sided bezels, I'm now more concerned than ever about her ability to do the work.

I just sent her an email bluntly asking if she thinks she can do this ring the way I want or if I'm asking for too much from her. Maybe my preferred design can only be done in an extremely low ring; which I know I would never be happy with. I liked the plastic model; except for the extreme low rise. However, I haven't felt comfortable with any of the renderings since.
 

elrohwen

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
5,534
Yes you could offer to pay her for CAD fees. I think that would be more than fair.
 

elrohwen

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
5,534
What you want isn’t the problem. You’re not asking for anything that difficult. I’m getting a three stone bezel with filigree made right now and not having any of these issues.
 

starbrite

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
77
Offer to compensate her for some of the time she put into this project - or CAD fees?
What would be a proper amount to offer her?

Because of the way she does business, we never discussed price about anything. Even before we really decided to work with her, she just started to automatically send us renderings that she claimed were no big deal & only took 2 seconds to run off the computer. Until recently, we had never asked her to do any renderings.

Once she sent the plastic model (which she insisted on sending against our hesitation), I've felt obligated to stay with her. She said that the plastic only cost her a couple of pennies (and took no time ). She said that she was running a model off for a client & it would be super easy to do a plastic model for us to since the machine would already be running. She assured that her sending it was no big deal. But in hindsight, I feel that plastic model made me obligated.

I'm new to having a ring made in this way. So I didn't know what we should expect. From what she's said, she's been working on my project on the side when she isn't busy on the floor of the store or else working with one of her more important clients.
 

pearaffair

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
3,080
Happy anniversary! How exciting for you! I prefer lower just so there is less chance of banging my ring on something. It feels a lot safer! Your ring sounds like mine. It is as low set as possible but my stones are only 0.3 each and mine is two tone. I adore my 5 stone and it is super comfortable. 20190523_094108.jpg 20190523_094042.jpg 20190401_092011.jpg
Where is the snake band from? Love it!!
 

starbrite

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
77
What you want isn’t the problem. You’re not asking for anything that difficult. I’m getting a three stone bezel with filigree made right now and not having any of these issues.
Who are you using? Do the jeweler and you communicate well? Have you made any design changes. Did you pick out the filigree pattern or did the jeweler?

I've reached a point where I'm finding it very difficult to keep fighting this battle. I want ACA quality diamonds, but I'm pretty sure the jeweler we've been working with plans to sell us her diamonds. If she doesn't have diamonds like I want, that will open an entirely new can of worms; even if the design could be properly done; which so far hasn't been the case.

Having a custom created and made, special occasion ring was supposed to be fun and joyful; not stressful. If it wasn't for my finding Pricescope and being able to talk to others about what's going on, I think I'd just give up & shelf the 5 stone ring; like I have done with the 3 stone idea. This whole thing has been very stressful. Our big anniversary is also now 3 months in the past. Fortunately, people here have been giving me hope that somehow this still might work out; even if I may have to change jewelers.
 

Rfisher

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 19, 2013
Messages
2,744
So you haven’t paid anything down and you don’t know what she’s going to charge you for the mounting?
No budget discussion - nothing.
Or am I not understanding you correctly?

and you haven’t told her that you most likely will be sourcing the diamonds elsewhere?
 
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starbrite

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
77
So you haven’t paid anything down and you don’t know what she’s going to charge you for the mounting?
No budget discussion - nothing.
Or am I not understanding you correctly?

and you haven’t told her that you most likely will be sourcing the diamonds elsewhere?
That seems to be how the jewelers here all do business...

When we also talked to the first local jeweler (who was easy to talk to and very prompt), his business seemed to work the same way when it came to designing a custom made ring.

He wanted to immediately send us a CAD without any payment or any discussion of how much the ring design might cost. Or what our budget might be. The jeweler (that we're now with) automatically started to send renderings based on just our questions about the possibility of a 3 stone ring being made. We didn't request them. However, we did tell jeweler #1 not to go to that kind of work unless we've decided to use him. He was even more insistent about just getting started with everything being loose ended.

For my other custom ring projects (done a long time ago), we always provided our own stones that had special meaning. For this 5 stone & the 3 ring projects, I knew I wanted ACA Ideal or Super Ideal quality. But I didn't yet have the stones. I tried to tell both jewelers my diamond quality and cut desires, but both said that could be discussed later.

I've not a young kid, but I feel like such an innocent about how things are done these days. So I've just been going with the flow.
 

Rfisher

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 19, 2013
Messages
2,744
I can’t proceed on a project without knowing the most basic of ballpark prices.
But - you are not I.
I think you are taking a risk asking for a ring style you’ve said is not shown in the designers line of work.
I think asking her to search for ‘ACA like’ stones are asking for a letdown, if that’s what you truly want.
If budget isn’t an issue - have her buy the ACA’s and she can mark up the price for her service. This may be more tolerable for her then her finding out you are sourcing the stones elsewhere. But who knows- I’m just guessing she’d care.
If you choose to cut ties - just flat out ask her what she feels is fair to compensate her for her time she worked on your project. That’s when she wasn’t with her more important clients that is.
And negotiate against what she asks for - or pay it.
I don’t think it’s ‘ethically wrong’ to change vendor when the project isn’t meshing. But I do think it’s morally right to offer some compensation for work done, even when things don’t go as planned. I mean, it’s an amicable separation - not like due to gross negligence.
I’ve seen CADs being worked into the cost of the ring, or them being no charge, or them being $350 or so each. It just depends how the jeweler/designer breaks down their business model.

I don’t think the differences of jewelers you and I have seen is an issue of locality or the times. It’s just different jewelers.

And I don’t think it odd for WF to not want to /cease to discuss custom design specifics when still shopping around was the plan.
 
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starbrite

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
77
I can’t proceed on a project without knowing the most basic of ballpark prices.
But - you are not I.
I think you are going out on a limb asking for a ring style you’ve said is not shown in the designers line of work.
I think asking her to search for ‘ACA like’ stones are asking for a letdown, if that’s what you truly want.
If budget isn’t an issue - have her buy the ACA’s and she can mark up the price for her service. This may be more tolerable for her then her finding out you are sourcing the stones elsewhere. But who knows- I’m just guessing she’d care.
If you choose to cut ties - just flat out ask her what she feels is fair to compensate her for her time she worked on your project. That’s when she wasn’t with her more important clients that is.
And negotiate what she asks for - or pay it.
I’ve seen CADs being worked into the cost of the ring, or them being no charge, or them being $350 or so each. It just depends how the jeweler/designer breaks down their business model.

I don’t think the differences of jewelers you and I have seen is an issue of locality or the times. It’s just different jewelers.
I've been led to believe with the three local jewelers (I talked to) that there was no charge for a CAD. However, I didn't want any of them putting the time into a CAD until I knew they could do my project... I didn't feel it was fair to them. But the jeweler, with the renderings, just started to send renderings anyhow. So that kind of made me obligated to go with her.

No, I have never seen a bezel ring of any sort on either her Web Site or her Facebook page. I've never seen a 3 stone ring on her Web Site or her Facebook page. Instead, she really seems to be big into large pave rings. She has created rings for some famous people; which I obviously am not. She has very good local reviews & is said to be the best in the Metro. However, I have never been in her store or seen any of her work in person. That has bothered me since the beginning. I know no one personally who owns jewelry from her store: either custom or ready made.

Budget definitely is a concern for us. We're not multi billionaires. But none of the local jewelers have wanted to talk price. They each said that would be determined after the final custom design was decided upon. They each said they had better prices and offered better quality than anyone else either locally or on-line. Obviously, that can't be true for all 3. However, the one, who has been working on the bezel ring design, has the best reputation locally.

With being trapped at home from this COVID situation, I have undoubtedly made mistakes in trying to get a custom ring done for this anniversary.

I've been flexible because I really didn't want to put everything on hold until 2021 or 2022. I also didn't want to merely buy stock setting on-line that might be okay but not special to me. I wanted a ring I'll love and wear. When the search, for someone who does custom design, started (by my husband) last March, he was only looking close to home.

I knew nothing about Pricescope or on-line vendors. My knowledge has been growing. I really want this tale to end well.
 

MillieLou

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 27, 2020
Messages
126
Just tell her it's not working out, thank her for her time and wish her well. Be decisive and move on. It's not fair to put her in the position of having to admit she can't do it (which she may not recognise herself) in order to get out of this situation which sounds like torture for both of you.

To be honest, it sounds like she will be relieved if she has a pile of wealthy / high profile clients who are probably less discerning.

If she expresses that she would like to be paid for CAD time I would pay a reasonable charge (couple of hundred dollars max) but wouldn't offer it upfront. I expect she will not ask, if she has a thriving business and no money worries.

It really doesn't need to be this hard.
 

elrohwen

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
5,534
Who are you using? Do the jeweler and you communicate well? Have you made any design changes. Did you pick out the filigree pattern or did the jeweler?

I've reached a point where I'm finding it very difficult to keep fighting this battle. I want ACA quality diamonds, but I'm pretty sure the jeweler we've been working with plans to sell us her diamonds. If she doesn't have diamonds like I want, that will open an entirely new can of worms; even if the design could be properly done; which so far hasn't been the case.

Having a custom created and made, special occasion ring was supposed to be fun and joyful; not stressful. If it wasn't for my finding Pricescope and being able to talk to others about what's going on, I think I'd just give up & shelf the 5 stone ring; like I have done with the 3 stone idea. This whole thing has been very stressful. Our big anniversary is also now 3 months in the past. Fortunately, people here have been giving me hope that somehow this still might work out; even if I may have to change jewelers.
I got my ring yesterday and posted a thread on it if you want to see. I went with Maytal Hannah and she was extremely easy to communicate with. There was no CAD because it’s hand forged, so I got a sketch and then had to trust her to execute but it came out great. The filigree is very delicate and easy to see even though the ring is set fairly low. She chose the filigree pattern.

Here’s the link: https://www.pricescope.com/communit...rhr-montana-sapphire-and-oecs-from-mh.259937/
 

starbrite

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
77
Just tell her it's not working out, thank her for her time and wish her well. Be decisive and move on. It's not fair to put her in the position of having to admit she can't do it (which she may not recognise herself) in order to get out of this situation which sounds like torture for both of you.

To be honest, it sounds like she will be relieved if she has a pile of wealthy / high profile clients who are probably less discerning.

If she expresses that she would like to be paid for CAD time I would pay a reasonable charge (couple of hundred dollars max) but wouldn't offer it upfront. I expect she will not ask, if she has a thriving business and no money worries.

It really doesn't need to be this hard.
Wise words. I plan to talk to her on the phone next week.

She said she was going to call me Friday, but didn't. So I'll call her & hope that she's not too busy with another client to talk to me. I need to get things settled one way or another.
 

starbrite

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
77
I got my ring yesterday and posted a thread on it if you want to see. I went with Maytal Hannah and she was extremely easy to communicate with. There was no CAD because it’s hand forged, so I got a sketch and then had to trust her to execute but it came out great. The filigree is very delicate and easy to see even though the ring is set fairly low. She chose the filigree pattern.

Here’s the link: https://www.pricescope.com/communit...rhr-montana-sapphire-and-oecs-from-mh.259937/
Your experience sounds wonderful. All of my previous custom work has been hand forged & I was always happy with those results.

This evening, I'll be headed over to your link to see the new ring. I'm so happy for you!!!
 

starbrite

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
77
Feeling like I haven't given her a fair chance, I'm still with the same jeweler.

I let her know that I was unhappy and was considering dropping the project. Part of the communication problem seemed to be that she hasn't been used to doing custom work without face to face give & take with the client. Part of my problem has been that I've never had a custom work done without face to face give & take with a jeweler.

Communication seems to be working better (and much more rapid) now that I phone her (rather than just email) her about design changes. We talk in real time about ideas and change possibilities.

I'm still a bit concerned about the height of the ring, but I think that can be worked out. The rendering that I got today is shaping up to be more of what I had in mind than previous renderings. No wonky shaped bezels or filigree. She even apologized about not having the design change to me within the hour like she promised. She had another client unexpectedly come in; so I didn't get the newest rendering for 2 hours. Because I had told her that I needed overnight to think about her changes, that's more than okay.

As this project continues to move forward & before I approve work on the actual ring, I may need some design advice from Pricescope members who have more experience than I do. I want to get things right the first time. I want this ring to be a keeper that I will wear on a regular basis.
 

Cerulean

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 13, 2019
Messages
752
Feeling like I haven't given her a fair chance, I'm still with the same jeweler.

I let her know that I was unhappy and was considering dropping the project. Part of the communication problem seemed to be that she hasn't been used to doing custom work without face to face give & take with the client. Part of my problem has been that I've never had a custom work done without face to face give & take with a jeweler.

Communication seems to be working better (and much more rapid) now that I phone her (rather than just email) her about design changes. We talk in real time about ideas and change possibilities.

I'm still a bit concerned about the height of the ring, but I think that can be worked out. The rendering that I got today is shaping up to be more of what I had in mind than previous renderings. No wonky shaped bezels or filigree. She even apologized about not having the design change to me within the hour like she promised. She had another client unexpectedly come in; so I didn't get the newest rendering for 2 hours. Because I had told her that I needed overnight to think about her changes, that's more than okay.

As this project continues to move forward & before I approve work on the actual ring, I may need some design advice from Pricescope members who have more experience than I do. I want to get things right the first time. I want this ring to be a keeper that I will wear on a regular basis.
I am unclear on whether she said this or you did, but if she did - I think the non-face-to-face blame is a total copout. Countless industries, including service industries, have migrated to virtual service. Beyond that, people on PS work with designers remotely constantly, and long before COVID. Designers should still provide great service regardless. It sounded like from the start, she was not communicating well, which to me, would exacerbate my anxieties as a consumer even more.

I think you've given this designer more than a fair shot. Given that getting it right so it is a keeper is your main priority...*sigh*

This all sounds terribly stressful IMO and it doesn't need to be that way
 

starbrite

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
77
I am unclear on whether she said this or you did, but if she did - I think the non-face-to-face blame is a total copout. Countless industries, including service industries, have migrated to virtual service. Beyond that, people on PS work with designers remotely constantly, and long before COVID. Designers should still provide great service regardless. It sounded like from the start, she was not communicating well, which to me, would exacerbate my anxieties as a consumer even more.

I think you've given this designer more than a fair shot. Given that getting it right so it is a keeper is your main priority...*sigh*

This all sounds terribly stressful IMO and it doesn't need to be that way
She said it.

I don't think the local jeweler I'm dealing with really does much "on-line" business like the various Pricescope vendors. Even in the time of COVID, she still has a sizable volume of "in person" clients. The "shut down" here only lasted 3 weeks. Before and after that, people have been willing to go to the store. So I have to take her at face value when she said that she's not used to doing custom work without ever meeting the client in person. For all I know, I'm her first & only such client. She does a lot of custom work. She just doesn't do it on-line.

If I'd known about Pricescope early on, I probably would have selected a different jeweler who has more experience with doing on-line custom work.

Am I happy about the way things have gone since my husband first contacted her? Until recently, no.

But things seem to suddenly be moving now. Communication seems much better. During the past few days, she's done another design change. When I said that I kind of like the change but am not absolutely sure, she has made up another plastic model for me to try. I should get that early next week.

At this point, I'm concerned that changing to another jeweler might only mean more problems and more stress. I'd be starting all over from scratch with someone else. That idea does give me anxiety.

In hindsight, I wish that before my husband originally started the ball rolling, I'd been more "educated" about the ins & outs of having a custom designed ring done on-line. I've never done it before & I have no friends who have done it. Now, I'm getting educated.
 

swingirl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2006
Messages
5,660
If you are satisfied working with your designer then do continue with your project. I just saw your post and have had several pieces custom made by Pricescope jewelers. One thing I noticed is that you have way too many elements in your design and are working with a jeweler who does not have this style in their repertoire. A more seasoned designer might offer you alternatives. I was told on one of my designs that what wanted wasn't going to work. I'm glad they let me know since they are experts and I am just dreaming.

If you decide to move on you'll want a designer who has experience with something close. Not all jewelers do nice millgrain, or bezels. And delicate filigree or engraving is a bit of a specialty. Your design is asking for several skills that your jeweler may not have.

Good luck with your ring. Don't rush it though unless your are 100% happy.
 

starbrite

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
77
Thank you swingirl,

"Not rushing" is super advice.

Because I have never been to the local designer's store, I have no first hand knowledge of what she does and doesn't have experience with. Unlike some jewelers, she also doesn't put everything she's ever done as a custom design on-line. After having graduated college for design, the lady does have 25 years of jewelry design experience. That's good.

However unlike the local jeweler I'd been working with in town for the past 20, she only designs the jewelry and doesn't do any bench work. So her design (once completed) will be turned over to someone else to actually make into the finished ring. That person has over 40 years of experience. He's also been with this business from their beginning.

All work is done in house. Nothing will be sent out.

After extensive searching, I finally did find one photo of a bezel ring that she has designed. A wide band ring with rose cut diamonds, it's a very different type of ring than I want. But it does have both bezels and milgrain.

In our phone conversations, this designer has always told me when things are not structurally possible. So she's not letting me just go with an idea that can't be practically done. That's a good sign.

I think you're right that part of the problem is my desired designed is rather complex and has a lot of elements. So getting the parts to come together - while keeping structure integrity - is a challenge.

However, unlike the exceptionally slow & poor start at the beginning, the jewelry designer recently has been very good in keeping communications going.

I kind of wonder if the original situation (with weeks of delays) was partly my husband's fault. He insisted that I don't push her. Maybe she felt our lack of passion in keeping the ball rolling was disinterest. Just speculating. All jewelers get a certain percentage of "looky loos" that don't intend to take things to completion. During those earlier months, I have no idea of what her opinion was of us. No money has ever been paid. Despite my nagging him, my husband refused to contact her before we hadn't heard from her for at least a couple of weeks. He just kept insisting "Give her time". So maybe her tardiness was the result of miscommunications. Unless things fall off again, I'm going to give her the benefit of a doubt.

I don't know how prompt Pricescope vendors are, but I'm now seeing between 4 to 48 hours with the local jeweler. Well, sometimes, 3 days if a weekend is involved. Having a family, she doesn't work Sundays and Mondays. Anyhow, communication is now in the acceptable range.

Truthfully, the lop sided bezel design phase (see above photos) does still worry me a little. That seemed like extremely poor design work. However, a phone conversation (with some give & take) got the design corrected on paper; while still being able to keep structure integrity. Still, her offering that poor design was quite concerning to me. But maybe someone else wouldn't have minded that design as much... She said that she did the wonky bezels to not weakened the connection to the shank. But IMO that move threw the entire balance off when the shank didn't connect aesthetically to the head. Her 8th CAD passionately bothered me. I would not accept that. Then, we talked in real time on the phone about other ways to do combine aesthetics with practicality. I'm very picky about detail. But I'm also not willing to sacrifice structural integrity.

I'd feel a lot better if I'd used this local jeweler before in the past. I'd feel a lot better if I personally knew someone who has custom work done by her. I'd feel a lot better if I'd seen some of her work in person. I'd feel a lot better if working with her hadn't had a rocky start with exceptionally slow communications. Unfortunately, none of that can be changed at this point in time.

On the other hand, her business has a lot of positives going for it, too. Her business is very highly rated and does has happy return customers. This designer also do a lot of custom work; again with happy return customers. Not having any first hand experience with her myself, I'll take these things as face value. To do otherwise with someone (be it her or someone else) will leave me with nothing.

Plus we're now finally very, very close to having a final ring design that I like. At this point, I'll only move on if we encounter some sort of unsurmountable problems. I truly don't want to start again (with this particular ring) from scratch with someone else I don't know. However, I won't just "accept" something I'm not happy with to avoid having to change. Instead, I plan to do my best to work with this jeweler to get what I want.

You have brought up good points about some jewelers specializing in engraving, milgrain, filigree, and the filigree. I've seen on-line examples of their custom milgrain and filigree & what I saw on-line looked good. Of course, on-line and in person are two different things. Wish I could get to their store...

Anyhow, we're continuing to move forward with this jeweler.
 

MillieLou

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 27, 2020
Messages
126
That sounds much more promising, glad things are starting to work out for you.

As an aside, the insistence of drawing up plans before discussing money is a common tactic (not just in jewellery design) and one I find very frustrating. It creates a subconscious sense of being beholden, and you're more likely to accept a higher quote than if they told you upfront. I respect people who can give a ballpark range when I ask. If they won't and want to draw up designs first, that's on them, but I won't feel obliged to them if the cost is too high.
 

starbrite

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
77
Change in height of the newest 5 stone ring model from the original model.

Opinions???




BezelHigherLower.jpg

BezelCenter3.jpg
 

starbrite

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
77
More photos of the latest model:

Band


RingModelSideIMG_3270-800.jpg


Where head and band attach

SideWithEngravingIMG_3297.jpg

To soften this area, an engraved floral design (not necessarily this one) has been proposed. I'm not sure if the design needs it or not. I have decided against doing engraving across the bezels.
 

Cerulean

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 13, 2019
Messages
752
Much much better! I am curious - where does it "hit" your other fingers along the sides?

Others might chime in with other feedback
 

chamois

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
451
I think it looks good to me, I’m no expert though. You are the one who has to wear it and love it every day!!
 
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