Engagement Ring - Best Bang for the Buck?

[skphotoimages]

I edited my post after you wrote yours tulip. I did a search, your ring is beautiful!

 

[ChooChoo]

I don''t think the intention of people who responded strongly and negatively to Hog''s post was to make him feel bad, but to prevent him from making a mistake that could really upset and hurt his fiance. I think we as women feel a lot of solidarity with each other, and could relate very easily to being put in her situation.

I know if my fiance who made $100K a year (!) got me a half-carat J color diamond in yellow gold (which I personally don''t like - I do own some, but only things that my parents bought me as presents and which I never wear), I would not be happy about wearing it. Could Hog''s fiance be different? Sure. But I venture to say that most women would not be happy either, so just going off probabilities, it''s a pretty good guess that Hog''s fiance is in for an unpleasant surprise unless this board talks some sense into him.

I do agree that we''ve probably scared him off. Let''s hope we at least got him thinking. If not, there is a soon-to-be disappointed woman out there.

 

[SoonIHope]

Date: 2/22/2006 10:59:20 AM
Author: Jelly
Maybe we should start a new thread about how much our husbands/boyfriends/fiances make in a year.

haha, GREAT idea! [$$)]

Author: skphotoimages
That''s exactly my point, everyone is attacking him based on what they are reading into his post.

Not to be picky...but how else ARE we supposed to react to him? None of us knows anything about him OTHER than what he chose to post. I don''t think it''s unfair to respond according to the information he chose to make public - which happened to be more than most guys would. When you choose to post on a public forum, you should be aware that the words you type are the only basis for which people know anything about you and choose your words accordingly. Most of us would not intentionally label ourselves "cheap" and talk about "getting away with" as poor quality a stone as possible, specifically because we DON''T want to come off the way Hog has. If Hog feels he has been misrepresented, he is more than welcome to come back and explain that it was a poor choice of words, but from what we are able to know about him from his posts so far, his personal opinions about wasting money on something which is no more than a marketing scheme do not appear to indicate that he has his girlfriend''s best interest at heart. That is all that people were concerned about.

 

[Jelly]

I have to give Hog credit for coming onto Pricescope and doing research on this diamond purchase. I have a feeling we''re never going to get to the bottom of this...we all have strong opinions on whether or not surprising the girl is best, how much money to spend on the e-ring, etc.

Hog has been given good advice here and has a lot to consider when making his e-ring purchase. My only advice that I can add, is get that .50ct diamond but make sure your vendor has a good upgrade policy in case she wants something more down the road.

 

[ursulawrite]

Date: 2/20/2006 7:32:26 PM
Author: EBree

Date: 2/20/2006 7:29:55 PM
Author: hog
Just to answer some of the questions posed...I have the financial ability to purchase a ''better'' diamond for my girlfriend since I have no debt and make a decent income. However, to me, life is more than about impressing people with the perfect diamond, nicest car or biggest house. I would rather put that money towards buying an appropriate house, going on vacations and starting a family. Maybe that makes me a bad person for not succumbing to the DeBeers marketing machine and their artifical view of love.

You make an excellent point. Just make sure that the diamond you purchase is an ideal cut diamond. No matter the size, it''ll sparkle like crazy. I posted a nice one from GOG (on page 1) as did Jelly from Whiteflash. One of those in a simple gold setting will be beautiful.

You sound a lot like my husband. He spent $5000 on my ring and his salary at the time was $200k. He was utterly thrilled to have gotten a bargain. He has no inclinations about impressing people and doesn''t give a hoot for cars, gigantic TVs etc. Rather than blow $25k on a ring, he was adamant that we should save for a downpayment for an apartment. And so we did.

I will say that there was a period when I felt pretty peeved that everyone around me was getting gigantic diamonds but my husband loves me in so many other ways (poetry, cooks dinner, runs errands, supportive in everything I do) that I am over it.

What''s more, now that we have the apartment and no debt, out of the blue he said the other night, "I''d love to get you a special ring for our tenth anniversary. Anything you like."

Hog, don''t feel pressured by anybody. Iff you feel that your girlfriend is the understanding type and sees things the way you do, then stick to your guns and get that kick-ass house first

 

[ursulawrite]

Date: 2/22/2006 10:59:20 AM
Author: Jelly
Maybe we should start a new thread about how much our husbands/boyfriends/fiances make in a year.

Well, we''d know soon enough if the De Beers marketing is working or not [$$)].

 

[tulip928]

Wow Ursula - $5000 = a lovely ring

!

and - Thank you, sk!

 

[ursulawrite]

Date: 2/22/2006 1:40:47 PM
Author: tulip928
Wow Ursula - $5000 = a lovely ring

!

and - Thank you, sk!

Oh, it is! I was just commenting on the fact that, ratio wise, my husband spent the same amount as Hog. Also, I live in NYC and so, y'' know, there is all that added pressure placed on couples to out-wow each other...

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 2/22/2006 8:36:19 AM
Author: skphotoimages

As far as what you said about you not having perfectly cut ring. That's the other thing that irks me about this forum. It is so great that they help people find quality stones, and well cut stones, but there are beatiful diamonds out there that aren't AAA Ideal. I have a 60:60 ring and it is breathtaking. I don't even know what the cut was on my first diamond, but it outshined any diamond it was next to, other than my moms .25 that we know nothing about.

Ok......it irks you that people focus on well-cut stones when you're on a diamond forum that extols well-cut stones? Gee, do you get pissed off at the people who like the smell of flowers when you talk into a FLOWER shop, too?

Admittedly, this forum is cut-centric.....so if you KNOW that, and you come here, presumably you are looking for input from those who prioritize cut. Don't know why that's such a shocker.

Lastly, most here won't and don't assert that a "AAA Ideal" diamond, as you put it, is the only way to go. Since cut does affect sparkle most, of course most of us would rather massage other parameters (color/clarity) before downgrading the cut, but it is perfectly reasonable for someone to choose a less than H&A, less then top-shelf cut diamond, and no one here would say otherwise.

It's not the budget amount, and it's not the size of the stone. It's that his stated mission is the figure out what the absolute bare minimum is and do that. I think that's why he's not at the mall.....the folks at the mall will try to prey on emotion or guilt people into overbuying (don't you want to know you bought the best you could, and similar Bs lines)....not great for the person who's trying to do the absolute bare minimum.

I guess I'll put it this way. Let's say I'm a professor, and a student asks me what score dips to failing. I say "70 is a d-, 69 is an F." If the next words out of his mouth are "what do I need to do to make 70?", I'm guessing he's not an enthusiastic student. He's not interested in learning; he aspires only to pass, not to excel.

Same feeling here.

 

[SoonIHope]

Date: 2/22/2006 2:04:38 PM
Author: aljdewey
I guess I''ll put it this way. Let''s say I''m a professor, and a student asks me what score dips to failing. I say ''70 is a d-, 69 is an F.'' If the next words out of his mouth are ''what do I need to do to make 70?'', I''m guessing he''s not an enthusiastic student. He''s not interested in learning; he aspires only to pass, not to excel.

I think that captures it perfectly alj! I had a real "THAT''s what I''m talking about!" moment reading that!

 

[skphotoimages]

LOL It is laughable how you just don't seem to get the point you even highlighted my point but still had to add you comment regarding something I never said. "That's the other thing that irks me about this forum. It is so great that they help people find quality stones, and well cut stones, but there are beatiful diamonds out there that aren't AAA Ideal. I have a 60:60 ring and it is breathtaking." Every single person who posted when I picked out my diamond steered me away from it because it was a 60:60 stone. Despite it scoring a 0.8 on the HCA and having great angles. My post clearly says that I think helping someone find a good cut is a great thing, but most people here have ONE idea of what a great cut is. Lets not forget people thought a 60:60 was ideal five years ago. On top of that my post was directed at Tulip when I thought she was saying she loved her diamond, but that it has a flawed cut. It's called being empathetic. I now understand her cut issue has nothing to do with tables and depths.

Date: 2/22/2006 2:04:38 PM
Author: aljdewey
Gee, do you get pissed off at the people who like the smell of flowers when you talk into a FLOWER shop, too?

Well one things for sure, if I did, you'd sure pipe up with your great wisdom regarding the subject. And no doubt you'd still be clueless as to the point.

 

[Allisonfaye]

Date: 2/19/2006 10:38:24 PM
Author:hog
I''m researching purchasing an engagement ring but I''m really cheap and don''t want to spend too much money. My goal is too spend no more than $2000 (1 weeks gross salary). Since I want a traditional look I will be getting a diamond solitaire with an 18K yellow gold setting. I figure with yellow gold, it has a classic look and won''t go out of style in 5-10 years like platinum or white gold will. Also a gold setting will let me get away with a stone that is not colorless.

I''m thinking the best deal would be a SI1 diamond that is eye clean, J colour with a very good or ideal cut. I think for that price range I should be able to get 0.6 to 0.7 carats. Since my girlfriend is very petite, this should look reasonable on her hand.

Is this the best bang for the buck? It seems that 0.5 carats is the ''sweet spot'' for diamond prices so maybe I should look for a better quality smaller diamond. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Hog

What bothers me is repeated efforts to get off cheap here:

''a gold setting WILL LET ME GET AWAY with a stone that is not colorless''
''very good or ideal cut''
"petite, this should look REASONABLE"

Boy, for me, I would be upset if my fiance was trying to ''get away'' with something that was the minimum cut to look ''reasonable.''

Doesn''t really sound like a dream ring, does it?

I was in a somewhat similar situation. My DH told me to pick out the ring and never really gave me a budget. I knew he made a good salary and he wasn''t shy about telling me how good. We were older and more established, not just starting out by any means. I had something in mind but with his budget (which he finally told me), it was really hard to do. I ended up picking something that was less than I dreamed of to meet the budget, which in all honesty, I still didn''t do. I never felt great about that ring.
I think he wasn''t quite sure of what to spend and he consulted his mother who probably told him what his sister''s husbands had spent. But they got married in their early 20''s and their DH''s didn''t make even close to what DH did at the time.
So, after discovering PS and looking further, I found something I loved. But I will never forget showing my original ring. I just didn''t feel good about it. At the time, there were a couple of much younger women that I worked with getting engaged and their rings were much bigger than mine.
I know it sounds materialistic but it is 100% honest.
DH didn''t bat an eye about my upgrade. He has never been ''cheap'' with me again since we got married. I think it was odd how he was feeling ''frugal'' at that point when we got the original ring. (I think it was partly because he was having trouble with the commitment of getting married after being a bachelor for so long). It is so unlike him now. And I love my ring because there was no ''cheapness'' attached to it.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 2/22/2006 5:16:50 PM
Author: skphotoimages

LOL It is laughable how you just don''t seem to get the point you even highlighted my point but still had to add you comment regarding something I never said. ''That''s the other thing that irks me about this forum. It is so great that they help people find quality stones, and well cut stones, but there are beatiful diamonds out there that aren''t AAA Ideal. I have a 60:60 ring and it is breathtaking.'' Every single person who posted when I picked out my diamond steered me away from it because it was a 60:60 stone. Despite it scoring a 0.8 on the HCA and having great angles. My post clearly says that I think helping someone find a good cut is a great thing, but most people here have ONE idea of what a great cut is. Lets not forget people thought a 60:60 was ideal five years ago. On top of that my post was directed at Tulip when I thought she was saying she loved her diamond, but that it has a flawed cut. It''s called being empathetic. I now understand her cut issue has nothing to do with tables and depths.



Well one things for sure, if I did, you''d sure pipe up with your great wisdom regarding the subject. And no doubt you''d still be clueless as to the point.

No, you still don''t get it. Most people here don''t have ONE idea of what a great cut. Yes, some people align their preferences with the major labs (who, by the way, know a thing or two about diamonds, so preferring their definition of ideal isn''t a bad place to start), but that doesn''t mean their preferences are exclusive to other cuts being great.

What you keep missing.....no one has said that there is only one universal definition of great cut. Cut is just like color or clarity; there is what the labs consider to be the utmost, the top (D color or IF clarity), and then there are colors below that. Doesn''t mean that others aren''t GREAT too.....an E stone is beautiful and an H stone is beautiful....and they are still among the upper ends of color. Cut is NO different. Yes, you can have the pinnacle (ags0), but you can also have something less than the pinnacle but STILL well-cut.

Several of the folks on here chant that all the time. Garry''s a huge proponent of thinking outside the box on it.....so is F&I. David from DLB touts the virtue of well-cut 60/60 stones all the time. While my personal preference might be for an AGS0, that doesn''t mean I (or others here) don''t consider some 60/60s well-cut.

As for what I contribute.......read it or don''t. No skin off my back. I never claimed to have great wisdom, but I''ll offer my opinion whenever I think it has merit and relevance.

 

[Rhapsody]

I think the thing that bothers me most about Hogs post is his claim that he doesn''t care about showing off the money he makes but he wanted to make sure we all knew he could afford much more than his 2k budget if he so desired. Maybe I''m "reading into things", but that doesn''t sound like someone who doesn''t care to me.

I like how SK mentions "PSer''s" like we''re so busy searching for the perfect diamond that we''ve lost touch with the outside world. None of my freinds or people I''ve worked with have understood my thing for jewelery, but EVERY girl I knew, however little jewelery she wore or how much she knew about diamonds had an idea of what she wanted for an engagement ring and they were all involved in the selection process.

And I don''t think a proposal is ever a complete surprise. The girl may not have known it was going to happen *then*, but if you are in a stable relationship with good communication you know approximately when it''s coming. I heard someone once say that women want their men to "surprise them with exactly what they wanted". I don''t think any girl wants to be *truly* surprised, she hopes that her guy will know her well enough to pick exactly what she would have. If he doesn''t she''s inevitably disappointed and worries he doesn''t know her very well. It''s silly really. I don''t think I have heard of one story where the guy picked out a ring all by himself and the women was happy with it. Why risk turing a happy memory into a bad one?

I hope Hog really knows his girlfriend and is basing his decisions on what would make her happy and not what he wants. However non-girlie and non-materialistic you are, the propsal and ring are a BIG DEAL. Take your time, do your research because you only get one shot at this.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 2/22/2006 7:23:49 PM
Author: Rhapsody
I don''t think I have heard of one story where the guy picked out a ring all by himself and the women was happy with it.

At least not THESE days!!! This reminded me of a situation that happened when I was e-ring shopping. Tiny store. Gorgeous gems. This girl literally RUNS over to my friend and I at the e-ring case and starts gushing. "Oh are you looking" "How pretty" Ooohing & Ahhing and dreamily looking at each ring. So - naturally I asked "Are you looking too?" but as the words toppled out of my mouth I glanced down at her hand and she kinda covered a weird, modern architectual setting with a tiny diamond. "Oh no" she said as her fiance approached her from behind "I already HAVE my ring & it''s perfect." She could not have been less convincing and I swear there were TEARS in her eyes.

I''m all for gratitude ... but that gal LOVED rings and HATED hers. In a million years that guy shouldn''t have picked that ring for that girl. She loved him enough to keep her feelings to herself apparently but, if I WAS THAT GUY ... I''d rather she be truly happy than fake it so I could keep on believing my mis-guided attempt at "creativity" on such an important piece of jewelry was on the mark.

And that guy was at least trying to be creative ... trying to "cheap out" is a whole new shade of awful.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 2/22/2006 5:16:50 PM
Author: skphotoimages

Date: 2/22/2006 2:04:38 PM
Author: aljdewey
Gee, do you get pissed off at the people who like the smell of flowers when you talk into a FLOWER shop, too?

Well one things for sure, if I did, you''d sure pipe up with your great wisdom regarding the subject. And no doubt you''d still be clueless as to the point.

skphoto

believe me!!! you ain''t gonna win this argument.

do you know who you''re messing with?

i hate to say it but,i kind of agree with Alj''s post.

 

[gailrmv]

This is not really to comment on anyone else''s post, but just an observation. I am around a lot of health care professionals. I notice that many of the younger women sport large, beautiful rings. Many of the females in their 40s, 50s, plus, wear smaller (but still pretty) rings, maybe half carat. These are a lot of doctors who could afford much more if they chose. Goes to show that the size is not always correlated with income. Of course, this is a generalization, but a definite trend amongst the people I know.

 

[fressia]

Gosh, after reading all 4 pages, I wonder if Hog is my ex-fiance!!!!!

A few years ago I was engaged to a guy that was all about finding the best deal he can. He was shameless and if he was interested in something you had, he had no qualms about asking the price of said item. It used to embarrass the heck out of me! I used to think he was frugal and was proud that he watched his money so well, but after a few years of this I realised he was just plain cheap. He never got me birthday presents as he claimed he was saving for our future, never bought me flowers as they were a waste of money, basically never got me anything because it was a waste of money to him. I convinced myself for a long time that I didn''t need these things and when I asked them about why I never got even a card for my birthday he accused me of being materialistic. Please don''t misunderstand me, I never expected anything extravagent or expensive, just something that showed that he cared.

What bothered me most is that he was not cheap when it came to himself. He bought himself a Movado watch as a present for completing his MBA. When he bought things, he researched for months before he made the purchase. Nothing wrong with doing some research, but when he did wind up getting something, it was always the most expensive item in its class. When he bought his car, he boasted as how he got the dealer to come down in price; I swear I must have heard that story 1000 times. But after that he never had any money to take me out. Again, not that I needed anything extravagent, but I wanted to do a little more than sit in every weekend and order Domino''s Pizza.

I still can''t believe that I accepted his proposal. He did surprise me with a proposal and a ring. I was so caught up in the moment that I did accept. When I came back to reality a few days later, he started telling me and everyone around what a great deal he got on my ring from Kay Jewelers. Only cost him $600! We were once out with friends and I excused myself and just went to the bathroom and cried when I overheard him say how we were just going to elope to save the money...something we had not even discussed! I stayed with him a few months longer, thinking that I could convince him to change his ways but his actions showed me he was clearly more interested in himself and saving his almightly buck than my feelings.

I am now engaged to the most wonderful guy in the world and it feels so good to know he actually cares about me. We are looking for rings together and he is most interested in getting me something I will love. His budget isn''t huge by PS standards ($3,000) but it could be $300 and I wouldn''t care. He isn''t interested in what kind of deal he can get or how much he can save. He just wants me to be happy, and he knows if I am happy then he will be the proudest guy in the world. He said he wants my face to light up every time I look at my ring. Isn''t that what it''s about?

 

[ladykemma]

Date: 2/20/2006 6:44:40 PM
Author: ladykemma
ok, I''ll bite

from the queen of frugality

go buy the books:
1. Diamonds: the antoinette matlins buying guide by antoinette matlins gemstone press woodstock vermont 2004
2. Diamond ring buying guide by renee newman 6th edition
3. a loupe 10X

now you''re out 40 bucks.

read and learn to spot problems with your eyes. I don''t buy by the numbers -- I can spot good/bad angles and depths and tables with my eyes. learn to use yours.

Now. go to pawn shops and estate sales. learn to look through crud and dirt. for $2000 I purchased a 1.25 carat used pear from a pawn shop. But a fresh 18K tiffany setting from jareds and you will come in at about $2200. plus 40 for the books and loupe.

so.... tulip.... when ya gonna go out buy yourself a ring? evil grin!

ok hawg, you troll, you!

went out pawn shopping yesterday hit on the motherlode of gorgeous stones. even if you have to buy a plane ticket to houston, it would pay off.

.5-.75 carat marquise D VS1 so white it looks blue $800 takes your breath away.

.34 ideal RB $150

old european cut about 0.5 carat $300

and many more! rounds, pears...

Think outside the box!

 

[tulip928]

LadyK - you''re inspiring me to take a field trip to the pawn shops to have some fun!

Did these diamonds have papers or did you grade them yourself with a loupe?

 

[Caribou]

Date: 2/22/2006 5:16:50 PM
Author: skphotoimages
LOL It is laughable how you just don't seem to get the point

What's even more laughable is that this is your first sentence in your response and YOU don't seem to get OUR point.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 2/23/2006 3:13:46 AM
Author: fressia
Please don''t misunderstand me, I never expected anything extravagent or expensive, just something that showed that he cared.

What bothered me most is that he was not cheap when it came to himself.

He isn''t interested in what kind of deal he can get or how much he can save. He just wants me to be happy, and he knows if I am happy then he will be the proudest guy in the world. He said he wants my face to light up every time I look at my ring. Isn''t that what it''s about?

This, in a nutshell, is the heart and soul of this discussion. I''m glad you found happiness.

 

[giantfan216]

I completely agree. The more I read this the more I believe that Hog''s post was part inquisitive in nature and part to maybe stir the proverbial pot and create some controversey, which he has succeeded in doing. skpho, your arguement is bogus for a few reasons:

1) If you were ever in this forum before, you would note that normally people who are seeking advice about rings state their desired budget and leave it at that. Never once in my time on this board have I EVER encountered someone criticizing another''s budget as being "too cheap". People on this board enjoy educating and helping others to the best of their ability find a right diamond for ALL budgets. It is a hobby that they enjoy doing and the purpose isn''t to move anyone into a more expensive diamond, but to relish and share in the satisfaction of hearing that someone benefitted from their help.

2) Words don''t lie. Hog used the words "I''m really cheap", "what I can get away with" etc. on his post. No one made that up, it is printed for all to see. This choice of words were unecessary and careless and people are calling him out on it. That''s all. Understand that HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BUDGET.

3) Having just bought an engagement ring two weeks ago I can understand and appreciate the effort to stay within your comfort zone (ie budget). Having said that, one should understand that buying an enagement ring should be viewed as a significant milestone in one''s life. Whether it is a .2ct or a 6ct ring it DOESN''T MATTER. It should be something you put effort into and much thought. Not to impress others, not to avoid the feeling of not being classified as "cheap" by strangers, but rather to show the person you want to spend the rest of your life with, that you care about them more so than yourself. My future fiancee is by far the most important thing in my life, I would glady trade my life in for hers any day of the week. How could I feel that way and then take the attitude of "trying to get away with" the cheapest ring I could pull together?

Answer me that, and you are a much better person than I am.

 

[Caribou]

Date: 2/23/2006 11:48:23 AM
Author: giantfan216
I completely agree. The more I read this the more I believe that Hog''s post was part inquisitive in nature and part to maybe stir the proverbial pot and create some controversey, which he has succeeded in doing. skpho, your arguement is bogus for a few reasons:

1) If you were ever in this forum before, you would note that normally people who are seeking advice about rings state their desired budget and leave it at that. Never once in my time on this board have I EVER encountered someone criticizing another''s budget as being ''too cheap''. People on this board enjoy educating and helping others to the best of their ability find a right diamond for ALL budgets. It is a hobby that they enjoy doing and the purpose isn''t to move anyone into a more expensive diamond, but to relish and share in the satisfaction of hearing that someone benefitted from their help.

2) Words don''t lie. Hog used the words ''I''m really cheap'', ''what I can get away with'' etc. on his post. No one made that up, it is printed for all to see. This choice of words were unecessary and careless and people are calling him out on it. That''s all. Understand that HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BUDGET.

3) Having just bought an engagement ring two weeks ago I can understand and appreciate the effort to stay within your comfort zone (ie budget). Having said that, one should understand that buying an enagement ring should be viewed as a significant milestone in one''s life. Whether it is a .2ct or a 6ct ring it DOESN''T MATTER. It should be something you put effort into and much thought. Not to impress others, not to avoid the feeling of not being classified as ''cheap'' by strangers, but rather to show the person you want to spend the rest of your life with, that you care about them more so than yourself. My future fiancee is by far the most important thing in my life, I would glady trade my life in for hers any day of the week. How could I feel that way and then take the attitude of ''trying to get away with'' the cheapest ring I could pull together?

Answer me that, and you are a much better person than I am.

If Skp, doesn''t get it after reading this...she never will.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 2/23/2006 11:58:40 AM
Author: Caribou

If Skp, doesn''t get it after reading this...she never will.

My money is on the "never will".