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Apatite0007

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
13
LovingDiamonds|1318191173|3036649 said:
You are correct but when you see the term "Paraiba Tourmaline" being used by somebody who says they are a GIA Gemologist, it would be my assumption that the Tourmaline was (a) copper bearing (b) had the neon glow associated with a Paraiba Tourmaline and NOT just copper bearing and therefore a cuprian and (c) was either from Brazil OR stated that it was from Mozambique or elsewhere.

The advert stated "**I am a GIA Gemologist, and direct importer of fine and rare gemstones. All stones I sell have been examined and tested with multiple gemological tools, and I guarantee 150% the accurate description and authenticity of everything I sell! If I cannot guarantee it 150%, I will not sell it!!!!***

The other thing to note is that as the stone did not have a lab report at the point of sale, it's unclear as to how this could have been marketed as coming from Brazil. I don't know if this was determined by AGL or not but it's important because if not known, it shouldn't have been advertised as such as that in itself is misleading.


With the bolded statement, if we use that mind set, selling a stone as a tourmaline or sapphire or quartz without a lab report would be misleading. I don't know if the vendor knew or not if the stone is from brazil. But there is no evidence that the stone is not or that the vendor is unsure, so I can't and won't say that part if the description is misleading.

This thread is full of assumptions by people who don't have facts in hand and I am really surprised pricescope has allowed this "trial by internet" based on assumptions.
 

Arkteia

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
7,380
I am not well-versed in the legalities of the situation, but to me, it looks simple. Ebay offers minimal protection, to vendors or customers whatsoever. Its role is to promote sales and to get its percentage. Paypal offers some protection, but it is time-limited. So if someone is out of the time limit, for whatever reason (sending the stone for verification, being too trusting, or something else), there are very few avenues we can pursue to seek justice, and this forum is one of them. I wish we had more... Currently a vendor located out-of-state is reimbursing my expensive purchase in installments, and I trust him, but if he does not reimburse in full, and I am out of time, this forum is the first place I am going to go to, and he knows it... As clients, we are interested in seeing this case resolved, and so far it has not moved, which is sad. If it is never resolved, I shall make my conclusions, which will probably result in fewer purchases on ebay, more and sooner complaints, and also limiting my list of trusted vendors. Which would be counterproductive for the business. I think other customers will make their conclusions, too. It will not be good for ebay and not good for PS-ers who opened their businesses and who we support and respect. I would love to see this post closed, but only after some resolution has been achieved.
 

LD

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
9,621
Apatite0007|1318192209|3036659 said:
LovingDiamonds|1318191173|3036649 said:
You are correct but when you see the term "Paraiba Tourmaline" being used by somebody who says they are a GIA Gemologist, it would be my assumption that the Tourmaline was (a) copper bearing (b) had the neon glow associated with a Paraiba Tourmaline and NOT just copper bearing and therefore a cuprian and (c) was either from Brazil OR stated that it was from Mozambique or elsewhere.

The advert stated "**I am a GIA Gemologist, and direct importer of fine and rare gemstones. All stones I sell have been examined and tested with multiple gemological tools, and I guarantee 150% the accurate description and authenticity of everything I sell! If I cannot guarantee it 150%, I will not sell it!!!!***

The other thing to note is that as the stone did not have a lab report at the point of sale, it's unclear as to how this could have been marketed as coming from Brazil. I don't know if this was determined by AGL or not but it's important because if not known, it shouldn't have been advertised as such as that in itself is misleading.


With the bolder statement, if we use that mind set, selling a stone as a tourmaline or sapphire or quartz without a lab report would be misleading. I don't know if the vendor knew or not if the stone is from brazil. But there is no evidence that the stone is not or that the vendor us unsure, so I can't and won't say that part if the description is misleading.

This thread is full of assumptions by people who don't have facts.
I disagree. Most of these gemstones can be tested with equipment that will show they are categorically a sapphire/quartz or tourmaline. What these tests won't determine is locality and the more aggressive treatments. So marketing a "sapphire" as a sapphire or a tourmaline as a tourmaline is fine but then stating it is from a locality is not if the origin has not been determined by a lab report.
 

Apatite0007

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
13
I have browsed many pricescope vendors in the past, and most if not all sell gemstones stating the origin without a lab report. So this is obviously common practice, or are you saying those sellers are misleading as well.

I came to post my opinion and did. I am not going to contribute to the negativity of this thread by arguing, alhough I see how easy it is to get caught up. Thank you for allowing me to say my part.
 

Barrett

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
2,218
TL|1318083225|3035936 said:
This thread has been full of assumptions, speculation, and otherwise. No one knows the full extent of the truth except for RH, Kelpie and AGL. Yes, the stone was not advertised what it was supposed to be, but it was supposedly not returned in its proper condition either. Both sides have axes to grind here and may need to resolve this problem outside of this forum with the proper legal authorities.

I will have to say in RH's defense, I was taken aback at Kelpie wishing her a slow painful death in her first post. I'm really shocked no one noticed that, or seemed to care. Although I feel bad for anyone who loses their money in a transaction, and I am such a person who has lost lots of money through my years of gem collecting with unscrupulous sellers, I would never wish death on them.

I think Pricescope should stay out of this matter from now on. It's really none of our business, it's between Kelpie and RH. Kelpie had every right to report what she felt was a bad customer service experience, but I think everything that needs to be said has been said in this thread. It's now up to Kelpie and RH to try to resolve this situation. I truly hope they can come to an amicable conclusion despite the words and assumptions thrown around in this thread.
Great post TL..I concur
 

Aoife

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
1,779
Apatite0007|1318193184|3036672 said:
I have browsed many pricescope vendors in the past, and most if not all sell gemstones stating the origin without a lab report. So this is obviously common practice, or are you saying those sellers are misleading as well.
Most if not all vendors do list origin, and in those cases where the origin of the gemstone has limited impact on the quality or value of the gem, I don't suppose most buyers either bother to verify the origin or much care. Testing for origin, can be inexact, in any case. However, listing a gemstone as having an origin that does add value, or implies certain characteristics of color is a whole different matter. If I am buying, for example, a silky blue sapphire that is presented as being a Kashmir sapphire, the vendor better have the paperwork from a reputable lab to back that claim up, or be willing to send it off to obtain that paperwork. "Paraiba" is one of those locations, like Kashmir for sapphire, or Burma for rubies, where the vendor cannot throw the location of origin around without being willing to back it up.


Speaking only for myself, my concern over the nature of this obviously very unsatisfactory transaction rests on the fact that every consumer on this forum takes a risk every time we buy a gemstone. Over and over, on all of the PS forums, posters are cautioned to check out the vendor's return policy. Does the vendor have a return policy? Oh, well, in that case, why don't you buy the stone and take a look? You really have to judge the diamond/gemstone/setting with your eyes. As long as there is a return policy, you are safe.

Well, apparently not. When a vendor parlays his or her PS presence into a business asset, and then does not stand behind his or her self-stated guarantee, it should concern all of us.
 

Barrett

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
2,218
Aoife|1318196161|3036693 said:
Apatite0007|1318193184|3036672 said:
I have browsed many pricescope vendors in the past, and most if not all sell gemstones stating the origin without a lab report. So this is obviously common practice, or are you saying those sellers are misleading as well.
Most if not all vendors do list origin, and in those cases where the origin of the gemstone has limited impact on the quality or value of the gem, I don't suppose most buyers either bother to verify the origin or much care. Testing for origin, can be inexact, in any case. However, listing a gemstone as having an origin that does add value, or implies certain characteristics of color is a whole different matter. If I am buying, for example, a silky blue sapphire that is presented as being a Kashmir sapphire, the vendor better have the paperwork from a reputable lab to back that claim up, or be willing to send it off to obtain that paperwork. "Paraiba" is one of those locations, like Kashmir for sapphire, or Burma for rubies, where the vendor cannot throw the location of origin around without being willing to back it up.

Speaking only for myself, my concern over the nature of this obviously very unsatisfactory transaction rests on the fact that every consumer on this forum takes a risk every time we buy a gemstone. Over and over, on all of the PS forums, posters are cautioned to check out the vendor's return policy. Does the vendor have a return policy? Oh, well, in that case, why don't you buy the stone and take a look? You really have to judge the diamond/gemstone/setting with your eyes. As long as there is a return policy, you are safe.

Well, apparently not. When a vendor parlays his or her PS presence into a business asset, and then does not stand behind his or her self-stated guarantee, it should concern all of us.
Great point Aoife!! Well done!!! :))

Lets not be stupid here..paraiba tourmaline in today's market signifies copper bearing..no if, and's, or but's about it. No matter which way you try to spin it...this is a NO SPIN ZONE :errrr: :twirl: :mad: :o :praise: :rodent: :appl: :wavey: :ugeek: :geek:
 

VapidLapid

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Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Messages
4,266
Fascinating
from:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/paraiba-tourmaline-q.135043/page-4']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/paraiba-tourmaline-q.135043/page-4[/URL]

"contact them first and tell them the item is not as described (the photo showed blue) and you want to return it. If they say no, tell them you will open a claim and then file negitive feedback, if they refund you willingly (including shipping), you will still leave postive (I have done this many times and it usually works). If they still say no, open a paypal claim under item not as described. Tell paypal they photoshopped and you didnt get the item you saw in the picture. Wait a week and chances are you will get your money back. Half the time you dont even need to return the stone...expecially if the other party doesnt respond.

I bought a 1.5ct diamond and wanted to return it because it was chipped. They said no, and paypal gave me my money back and told me I didnt need to return the item because the seller didnt respond. Well now my hubby has a free 1.5ct diamond (although chipped, he doesnt care) in his ear.


"
 

Apatite0007

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
13
Maybe I missed something, but what does a post pulled out of the context of it's original thread have to do with the current thread other then to stir up more drama?

I just re read the first OPs first post and saw the above mentioned 'death wish' on the vendor.
I speak for myself and my collegues who have also read this thread today, we will be boycotting pricescope and it's sponsors. I am not siding with the vendor because I don't know the facts of this to take sides, I am just a bystander speaking about what I have read. I am shocked and ashamed to see this type of behavior from members of the gemological community and pricescopes allowance of this behavior on it's website. The death wish and the accusations of the vendor being threatened is the final straw for me and I know I don't wish to be a part if a community or purchase from those that support such behavior and I will be urging others in my trade to follow. I am sorry to see Kelpie have such a bad experience with a vendor, and I hope he situation can be resolved, but the words and behavior of this thread has not been the words and behavior of adults and professionals.
 

VapidLapid

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
4,266
I am not going to contribute to the negativity of this thread by arguing, alhough I see how easy it is to get caught up. Thank you for allowing me to say my part.
 

VapidLapid

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
4,266
That quote is not out of context, it was posted with the link to the entirety of it's original thread. That then is full context. That the quote is by rockhugger and is specifically about returning stones, in particular an alleged Paraiba, when they turn out not to be what they are purported to be, even when chipped makes it extremely relevant to this situation. That she goes on to say essentialy that one need not even return the stone when it turns out not to be what was claimed is pertinent, relevant and significant.

You say that you, "don't wish to be a part if a community or purchase from those that support such behavior and I will be urging others in my trade to follow", but you joined Pricescope only a few hours ago presumably only to respond to this one thread, since all your posts have been made here. Threatening to leave and to boycott a group that does not even know you is shilly.
Thank you for allowing me to say my part.
 

kelpie

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
2,362
Hi guys, I'm posting from my phone but wanted to say that the essential facts here aren't in despute. When I informed RH of AGL's findings she was apologetic and willing to accept the return. Something changed down the road whether it was because of the stones condition or her not having the money to reimburse me. I don't know, but her response signifying her remorse that the stone was not copper and I could return it showed she agreed that copper is essential when selling a stone you describe as a paraiba tourmaline. I am not comfortable filing an insurance claim because I don't know the stone's condition or how it got that way and I sincerely believe it's true value is no where close to what I paid in any condition considering the identically colored afghan stone I own that was precision faceted was $190. I'm sure comparisons can be found for similar eBay stones.

Eta- and I get that what I said was inflammatory and upsetting to some but it was not a "death wish" this individual is making some very bad karma for herself.
 

Arkteia

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
7,380
VL - amazing...
This thread was generated not by RH selling a non-cuprian as a Paraiba...it started with her claims of "150% guarantee" and then silence...not returning emails. Cracked stone or insurance were first mentioned here... so between RH and Kelpie, I totally believe Kelpie who I do not know at all. (And I had always been supportive and liked RH... sad).
Apatite - true, vendors here do not always list origin or check treatment, but if someone does and the stone is not as represented, trusted vendors accept it back and list as stated on the certificates. Things get resolved outside PS.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
22,852
crasru|1318209641|3036807 said:
VL - amazing...
This thread was generated not by RH selling a non-cuprian as a Paraiba...it started with her claims of "150% guarantee" and then silence...not returning emails. Cracked stone or insurance were first mentioned here... so between RH and Kelpie, I totally believe Kelpie who I do not know at all. (And I had always been supportive and liked RH... sad).
Crasru,
I know it sounds fishy, but RH said that Kelpie's emails didn't get to her in-box through ebay. I can't say what I believe because I am not RH. I don't know the whole truth. It is only speculation on our part that the emails were not read because RH decided not to read them. Again, speculation is getting us nowhere in this thread at all. However, I do understand the frustration of a consumer not being responded to when they need to urgently have communication with their seller. I can understand Kelpie's frustration in this case.

Kelpie,
I disagree with you about the worth of the stone. $750 would be a retail price on it from what I've seen similar material sell for on retail sites. However, you have seen it in person, and if that's what you think it's worth, that's your opinion. Lisa Elser who is a G.G., and others have also concurred that it could possibly be worth $750. Now, if it was insured for $20,000, that would definitely not be a realistic price. As for the fact that you don't know it was damaged on it's return to RH, I cannot speak to that.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
22,852
Aoife|1318196161|3036693 said:
Apatite0007|1318193184|3036672 said:
I have browsed many pricescope vendors in the past, and most if not all sell gemstones stating the origin without a lab report. So this is obviously common practice, or are you saying those sellers are misleading as well.
Most if not all vendors do list origin, and in those cases where the origin of the gemstone has limited impact on the quality or value of the gem, I don't suppose most buyers either bother to verify the origin or much care. Testing for origin, can be inexact, in any case. However, listing a gemstone as having an origin that does add value, or implies certain characteristics of color is a whole different matter. If I am buying, for example, a silky blue sapphire that is presented as being a Kashmir sapphire, the vendor better have the paperwork from a reputable lab to back that claim up, or be willing to send it off to obtain that paperwork. "Paraiba" is one of those locations, like Kashmir for sapphire, or Burma for rubies, where the vendor cannot throw the location of origin around without being willing to back it up.


Speaking only for myself, my concern over the nature of this obviously very unsatisfactory transaction rests on the fact that every consumer on this forum takes a risk every time we buy a gemstone. Over and over, on all of the PS forums, posters are cautioned to check out the vendor's return policy. Does the vendor have a return policy? Oh, well, in that case, why don't you buy the stone and take a look? You really have to judge the diamond/gemstone/setting with your eyes. As long as there is a return policy, you are safe.

Well, apparently not. When a vendor parlays his or her PS presence into a business asset, and then does not stand behind his or her self-stated guarantee, it should concern all of us.
Aofie,
Very good post. The only issue is that most of the vendors want the item returned in the exact state it was sent to the buyer. In other words, no damage. The guarantee is sometmes bound to that caveat. For example, many vendors explicitly state this on their websites. I just wanted to clarify that fact. :))

. . . and yes, I totally agree with you that as gem buyers, we always take a risk when buying gems. I have learned that the hard way as most of the vendors we buy from are not large corporations, and are very small businesses. There is often a higher risk in terms of consumer satisfaction with a smaller business than a larger one IMHO. I wish it were not so. I often "test the waters" with some sellers, but refunds for me, no matter who the seller, is always a very stressful situation.
 

Imdanny

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
6,186
LovingDiamonds|1318181700|3036560 said:
Aoife|1318179534|3036545 said:
colormyworld|1318178422|3036536 said:
lelser|1318176335|3036506 said:
But Colourmyworld, that's not the way the law works. You cannot say something is one thing, and then defend yourself when you're proven wrong by claiming that it was still a fair deal for the price and the buyer should have known. Under FTC rules that's completely illegal.

Cheers,

Lisa
www.lisaelser.com

Perhaps to us gem geeks but I don't think the common man or woman on the street would agree with you in this instance. Perhaps I am taking the notion of common law to far then?
This actually has nothing to do with whether or not we are gem geeks. An item (gems, cereal, handbags) that is advertised/represented as being A can't be B, even if B is worth the same as A, or "nearly as good as A" because that is not what the contract (sale) was for. The item was misrepresented, and the law is very clear on that, especially if the seller is presenting him or herself as a professional, and especially if the seller has explicitly stated that s/he will refund the money if the item isn't what she says it is--which, by the way, also becomes part of the contract. So, in this case, the seller is in violation of at least 2 parts of the contract. That is part of my frustration with some of the posts on this thread, because the basic conflict is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of the law governing transactions. Everything else is a distraction, and, as I have said before, irrelevant to the main issue.
Superb summary. Thank you Aoife.
Yes, thank you Lisa and Aoife.
 

ciciban

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
Messages
27
If both parties involved have good intentions, this situation shouldn't have reached these proportions. It is sad as they both seem to have valid points supporting their case. I say both, because I empathise with the OP, there's the loss of funds, frustration and also wasted emotional time. If I put myself in the shoes of the vendor I can sympathise with her, though coming across a bit aggresive and stubborn didn't help her case but I understand her plight, under the circumstances here.

IF this gemstone was insured it should not be unreasonable to claim insurance on the damaged item, insurance company will assess it and deal. They would be better equipped to make judgements on a claim, without a need to use ugly words such as '"fraud". I didn't get the impression that anyone was trying to defraud the postal insurance.

Something has gone wrong here, and it has to do with a lack of trust between people and a lack of basic mutual respect. My advice to both of you would be to bury these negative and useless emotions, shake hands and start afresh. And decide what are you going to do about insurance. This can be done amicably, if you want to.
 

Laila619

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
11,528
kelpie|1318208358|3036790 said:
I am not comfortable filing an insurance claim because I don't know the stone's condition or how it got that way and I sincerely believe it's true value is no where close to what I paid in any condition considering the identically colored afghan stone I own that was precision faceted was $190. I'm sure comparisons can be found for similar eBay stones.

Eta- and I get that what I said was inflammatory and upsetting to some but it was not a "death wish" this individual is making some very bad karma for herself.
RH's stone is now damaged. It was not damaged when it got to you. Therefore, the insurance claim needs to be filed. That's what the insurance was for.
 

Barrett

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
2,218
VapidLapid|1318202467|3036744 said:
That quote is not out of context, it was posted with the link to the entirety of it's original thread. That then is full context. That the quote is by rockhugger and is specifically about returning stones, in particular an alleged Paraiba, when they turn out not to be what they are purported to be, even when chipped makes it extremely relevant to this situation. That she goes on to say essentialy that one need not even return the stone when it turns out not to be what was claimed is pertinent, relevant and significant.

You say that you, "don't wish to be a part if a community or purchase from those that support such behavior and I will be urging others in my trade to follow", but you joined Pricescope only a few hours ago presumably only to respond to this one thread, since all your posts have been made here. Threatening to leave and to boycott a group that does not even know you is shilly. Thank you for allowing me to say my part.
LOL..good point, Vapid, and I wondered the same thing...LOLOLOL
Threatening to leave when you have like 7 post all associated to this one.
These type of threads are best left for the regulars and the OP's to hash out and/or discuss
 

MissStepcut

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
1,720
amethystguy|1318220342|3036898 said:
VapidLapid|1318202467|3036744 said:
That quote is not out of context, it was posted with the link to the entirety of it's original thread. That then is full context. That the quote is by rockhugger and is specifically about returning stones, in particular an alleged Paraiba, when they turn out not to be what they are purported to be, even when chipped makes it extremely relevant to this situation. That she goes on to say essentialy that one need not even return the stone when it turns out not to be what was claimed is pertinent, relevant and significant.

You say that you, "don't wish to be a part if a community or purchase from those that support such behavior and I will be urging others in my trade to follow", but you joined Pricescope only a few hours ago presumably only to respond to this one thread, since all your posts have been made here. Threatening to leave and to boycott a group that does not even know you is shilly. Thank you for allowing me to say my part.
LOL..good point, Vapid, and I wondered the same thing...LOLOLOL
Threatening to leave when you have like 7 post all associated to this one.
These type of threads are best left for the regulars and the OP's to hash out and/or discuss
If I were Ella I would definitely be checking IP addresses to check if that poster has more than one account coming from the same IP address.

Edit: not criticizing Ella's modding. I am saying I am curious enough that I would abuse my power that way :lol:
 

Imdanny

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
6,186
It's true what others have said that some of these posts don't sound genuine.
 

Imdanny

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
6,186
Laila619|1318220275|3036897 said:
kelpie|1318208358|3036790 said:
I am not comfortable filing an insurance claim because I don't know the stone's condition or how it got that way and I sincerely believe it's true value is no where close to what I paid in any condition considering the identically colored afghan stone I own that was precision faceted was $190. I'm sure comparisons can be found for similar eBay stones.

Eta- and I get that what I said was inflammatory and upsetting to some but it was not a "death wish" this individual is making some very bad karma for herself.
RH's stone is now damaged. It was not damaged when it got to you. Therefore, the insurance claim needs to be filed. That's what the insurance was for.
In no way, shape, or form, is RH entitled to keep Kelpie's money for selling her a misrepresented product, especially when the stone was guaranteed (150%!) to be as represented, AND they had an agreement as such involving lab verification, so in my opinion, RH should stop making excuses and give Kelpie's money back. As far as any insurance claim, I think, as I said before, RH ruined any chance of a legitimate determination being made by the lab's insurance company when she separated the packaging from the stone, and tossed them both in the mail again. In any case, it's remarkable that anyone would think that RH would ever be, under any circumstances, entitled to the retail price, which is what she seems to have been claiming this entire time.
 

Imdanny

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
6,186
LovingDiamonds|1318021139|3035540 said:
ruby59|1318017893|3035510 said:
pregcurious|1318017394|3035500 said:
ruby59|1318016238|3035480 said:
pregcurious|1318014082|3035457 said:
ruby59|1318008858|3035404 said:
As for the other points in your email about talking about the RH's personal information, the PS moderator has dealt with that and the post was removed (the post was immediately after one of my posts). The poster has apologized, and you can see her apology above.
(answer) The original post may be gone, but thanks to people copying and pasting, that information is still on this thread, which is how I found it.
You can email a mod to delete the information that you find offensive. I have done it before, and it is very easy.

I do not find it offensive, but of course it is not my business that has been laid out here. What I am saying is that once something goes on the Internet, it can never be taken back. My point is that this could have been handled a little better. People were throwing out accusations and presenting them as facts. The only ones who know for sure are the OP, lab, and RH. And as we know, there are three sides to every story. So until then, is it fair to trash someone's reputation?
I'm sorry but I disagree. RH sold a stone saying it was a Paraiba Tourmaline with a 150% refund guarantee if it wasn't. The lab confirmed it wasn't. RH has refused to refund and now has the money and the stone. All that is fact. RH has trashed her own reputation by her responses in this thread and her own actions.
In my relatively short or long time at PS, take your pick, I have not seen a more convoluted mess, and it all boils down to the facts that you just pointed out. Why anyone would want to make it any more complicated, I don't know. I don't believe that the stone was damaged any more than I believe RH's 150% guarantee. And even if it were, RH is not entitled to keep money that does not belong to her, and is not entitled to receive the retail price of the stone from an insurance company. RH "trashed" her own reputation as a businessperson. Not honoring your contract nor your guarantee, and keeping money that does not belong to you, while telling everyone you're entitled to be paid retail for your misrepresented stone by an insurance company is not reputable. I hope Kelpie finds a way to resolve this situation. I'm grateful to Kelpie for bring this to our attention. As a consumer, I certainly don't want to find myself in a similar situation.
 

colormyworld

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
1,172
kelpie|1318208358|3036790 said:
Hi guys, I'm posting from my phone but wanted to say that the essential facts here aren't in despute. When I informed RH of AGL's findings she was apologetic and willing to accept the return. Something changed down the road whether it was because of the stones condition or her not having the money to reimburse me. I don't know, but her response signifying her remorse that the stone was not copper and I could return it showed she agreed that copper is essential when selling a stone you describe as a paraiba tourmaline. I am not comfortable filing an insurance claim because I don't know the stone's condition or how it got that way and I sincerely believe it's true value is no where close to what I paid in any condition considering the identically colored afghan stone I own that was precision faceted was $190. I'm sure comparisons can be found for similar eBay stones.

Eta- and I get that what I said was inflammatory and upsetting to some but it was not a "death wish" this individual is making some very bad karma for herself.

Are you saying that the stone in this link is identical to the stone about which this thread is about?

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-does-this-look-like-to-you-chip-or-indented-natural.158387/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-does-this-look-like-to-you-chip-or-indented-natural.158387/[/URL]
 

smitcompton

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Messages
2,507
Hi Again,

LD, I respect your knowledge of gems and if that were the issue, i would certainly comcede any disagreement I may have had.
However, you keep repeating the misrepresentation of the stone as being the primary contract. My understanding, as Kelpie had stated several times that there was a meeting of the minds (Gem transaction terms) over the sale of the stone. Everything was fine until it was stated the stone was damaged. Now the contract is void--not before because they had agreed to the way the transaction was to be carried out. The effect of the damaged stone supercedes the original intent of both parties to the transaction. You must send back the item in the original condition. I can't conceive of a diamond dealer, who advertised the clarity and color were F. VVS and when sent to a lab, the grading didn't match. The seller agrees to take it back, only when it arrives he finds a chip on one of facets.
He refuses to take it back. I believe this happens. You know the rest. Back it goes, or the buyer sends it ro their insurer, hopefully they have one.

Next, Last year I send 2 rubies to AGL, and a yellow diamond to GIA. i remember clearly thinking when I received them back, within a week of each other, that the packaging was not very good on one of them.. I just don't remeber which one. I thought, god, iget better packaging from Jerry Newman & Jason than from these labs. One came in a soft envelope, one came in a hard box. Not great packaging. Also, Kelpie lives in Tanzania. Who says they take care of gemstone packages. There is so much room for possible damage, I'd like people to comsider other factors.

TL , of course is right in that the tread has gone on way too long. For myself, I am angrier now at PS for their total lack of judgement in keeping a thread like this open. I'm embarrassed it is in colored stones.

It will not be settled here. Please close the thread.



I
 

galeteia

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
1,794
smitcompton|1318269464|3037144 said:
TL , of course is right in that the tread has gone on way too long. For myself, I am angrier now at PS for their total lack of judgement in keeping a thread like this open. I'm embarrassed it is in colored stones.

It will not be settled here. Please close the thread.
I've been watching this thread and have not posted since it began to evolve into complex arguments because I am not a tradesperson. However, as a consumer and therefore the target market of this forum, I appreciate both the 'buyer beware' knowledge in order to avoid that vendor, and also the chance to see the vendor 'defend themselves'.

In my years here I have seen several vendors called out for various issues, and my respect for certain vendors has only increased after seeing how they responded to that criticism. An example would be John Pollard's apology in his WF days for some terrible product that a PSer received- he stood up, acknowledged what happened, took responsibility, and took steps to get it done correctly.

Gone are the days where consumers could be bullied and fleeced by vendors; PS gives everyday people like myself a forum (literally) for vendor accountability. This vendor chose to defend themselves unprofessionally without regard for negative PR, which was their choice and they will now have to deal with the consequences.

PS has done nothing wrong in allowing a place for a slighted consumer to air their grievances. Whether or not it was valid is beside the point; this is what the forum is for- consumers reaching out for recommendations, warn-offs, perspective, and expert advice.
 

movie zombie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
11,879
smitcompton|1318269464|3037144 said:
TL , of course is right in that the tread has gone on way too long. For myself, I am angrier now at PS for their total lack of judgement in keeping a thread like this open. I'm embarrassed it is in colored stones. It will not be settled here. Please close the thread. I

another vote for closing the thread.

everything has been said more than once.

we all know that there are issues when buying with eBay. if its too good to be true, then its too good to be true. let the buyer beware. color stones are one of the last things i'd be buying off eBay.....and this thread is a prime example of why. i know some have good relationships with some vendors but even then i see complaints from others re those same vendors. each of us has to decide what our tolerance level is when doing business with anyone. doing business on eBay raises the issues a notch.

i think the thread has served as a learning lesson for all and it is time to close it.
 

LD

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
9,621
smitcompton|1318269464|3037144 said:
Hi Again,

LD, I respect your knowledge of gems and if that were the issue, i would certainly comcede any disagreement I may have had.
However, you keep repeating the misrepresentation of the stone as being the primary contract. My understanding, as Kelpie had stated several times that there was a meeting of the minds (Gem transaction terms) over the sale of the stone. Everything was fine until it was stated the stone was damaged. Now the contract is void--not before because they had agreed to the way the transaction was to be carried out. The effect of the damaged stone supercedes the original intent of both parties to the transaction. You must send back the item in the original condition. I can't conceive of a diamond dealer, who advertised the clarity and color were F. VVS and when sent to a lab, the grading didn't match. The seller agrees to take it back, only when it arrives he finds a chip on one of facets.
He refuses to take it back. I believe this happens. You know the rest. Back it goes, or the buyer sends it ro their insurer, hopefully they have one.

Next, Last year I send 2 rubies to AGL, and a yellow diamond to GIA. i remember clearly thinking when I received them back, within a week of each other, that the packaging was not very good on one of them.. I just don't remeber which one. I thought, god, iget better packaging from Jerry Newman & Jason than from these labs. One came in a soft envelope, one came in a hard box. Not great packaging. Also, Kelpie lives in Tanzania. Who says they take care of gemstone packages. There is so much room for possible damage, I'd like people to comsider other factors.

TL , of course is right in that the tread has gone on way too long. For myself, I am angrier now at PS for their total lack of judgement in keeping a thread like this open. I'm embarrassed it is in colored stones.

It will not be settled here. Please close the thread.


I
Smit - I understand your reasoning and that you believe the contract wasn't just about the wording in the original advert but in pure law terms it IS the initial terms that set the contract. That wording also laid out a 150% guarantee and that refunds would/could be made. So, the basic contract was for a Paraiba Tourmaline. I'm sorry to keep banging on about this but all the other issues have confused this horrible situation. Essentially the contract became null and void when the stone was reported by the laboratory as NOT being what it was sold as. The damage is a secondary (and unfortunate end) to the misselling. There is another solution for RH though. Why doesn't she go back to her supplier (who presumably sold it to her as a Paraiba Tourmaline) and ask for her money back from them? She then won't be out of pocket because should be refunded what she paid - that's all that she's out of pocket.

There are a number of routes that RH could explore to resolve this situation but none of those seem to be forthcoming.
 
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