Calling on Vendors to Enact Across the Board 30 Day Returns...

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/6/2010 9:26:45 PM
Author: denverappraiser
I must be missing something. You’re talking about stones that are ordered in from a third party by the dealer, right? This means that pretty much every dealer can get it, including your local B&M store. The ONLY difference is in the terms offered by the dealer. Yes, the local folks offer a convenient showroom and helpful employees (hopefully) and these are fine reasons to shop with them. As I’m sure you’ve noticed, this is NOT a free service, despite the fact that it’s not separately billed. The same is true of dealers who order in the stone for a battery of tests, spend weeks exchanging email with you or offer you tradeups, financing or ‘free’ setting or other service. There are literally thousands of competitors trying to earn your business by promoting their own set of benefits over their competitors. This is a GOOD thing. If you want a long return policy but don’t have much need for financing (for example), by all means choose a dealer who matches the style you’re looking for. I routinely advise people to choose their dealer first and the diamond second, instead of the reverse for exactly this reason.

I’m not seeing the downside here. If your hot button is the length of the return policy, Costco will give you forever, but they may not give you something else you want. If you want the rock bottom prices, don’t expect much in terms of added service and if you want a fancy showroom and free coffee, don’t expect someone to do it for a $100 markup on a $$10,000 sale. Choice is a good thing for most people but it requires YOU to make an informed decision. The onus is on them to pitch the merits of their own deal but it’s on you to decide if that’s what you want.

Pricescope sells nothing but advertising. The dealers pay to be in the database and in the banners and they do this in the hope that you’ll buy something. They set their own terms and decide on their own sales pitches. In the end, you’re doing business with the dealer, not with Pricescope. Who you choose and why is a hotly competitive issue but it seems insane to me to expect PS to be dictating to them what sort of bundle of benefits they should offer.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

Ditto every word.

 

[Lula]

henearly, sounds like you got a in a bit over your head trying to score the best price on a stone. I don''t blame you for wanting to get the best value for your money, but your story reminds me of a saying that I''ve heard many businesses use...

You can get the cheapest price or you can get the best service or you can get the best quality. You can easily get two out of the three, but never all three at once.

As someone who has been a lurker/member of PS for over a year now, I could run down the list of PS vendors and tell you which offer service and quality at a higher price and which offer price over everything else. And there are several vendors who offer a low price and excellent service, but variable quality (some great stones, some not so great stones). Your only mistake was trying to get the Cadillac service with the Chevy purchase (my apologies to those who own Chevys).

Wink, thanks for your great post (about vendor policies, not about the steak, but that does sounds good!). I agree with you that your 21 day policy is more than enough time for the serious buyer to make up his/her mind, and I very much agree that if it takes longer than a millisecond or two for the emotional response of yes! to kick in (with some time for an appraisal if that''s part of the plan), it''s probably not the right diamond for the buyer.

I think it took me about one heartbeat''s time to decide that I loved my Infinity Diamonds. And, yes, henarly, I did upgrade my Infinity diamonds,not because I was spurning a gift from my loved one, or whatever your phrase was, but because I changed my mind about size in one case, and about color in another.

Because Wink and Crafted by Infinity have great policies, I was able to take my time and get exactly what I wanted -- these policies are satisfaction insurance, imho, but it does cost the vendor quite a bit more to offer this Cadillac level of service.

It all boils down to what is most important to you -- price or service or quality. To expect the vendor to offer you all three is a recipe for a bankrupt business.

 

[lucyandroger]

henearly,

You are probably correct that the average consumer does not understand the difference between an in-house diamond, a diamond brought in-house, and a diamond only brought in-house because the consumer requested that specific diamond. HOWEVER, the average consumer simply looks at what stones are available on a vendor''s site, chooses one and buys it.

When you start requesting certain rare specs, finding a virtual stone and then calling multiple vendors to bring in a stone, you are NOT the average consumer. Therefore, you have to inform yourself better than most and be aware of what you are asking vendors to do. If you can''t be bothered to ask the questions, then I would stick to the vendor''s current inventory.

 

[Gayletmom]

Date: 3/7/2010 9:02:18 AM
Author: brellymom
So it seems that we agree that Return Policies should be easily available and clearly stated. What I get from reading posts thus far is there is some question as to the availability and clarity about return policies related to inhouse vs. externally sourced stones. So I ask myself - are we to assume that online purchasers understand the difference between outside and inhouse stones? (or should I say, reasonably assume?) I just don''t know. And if they do (or don''t), rather than calling for an x-day requirement, should vendors [just] more clearly state the definitions thereof, the different return policies (if any), and then ensure that purchasers know what they are getting when the pursue one or the other?


i haven''t decided, but I am not sure every purchaser of a stone online would know (retain, remember, ''get'') this difference. I think when making a purchase of this type, individuals don''t do it often enough to remember everything - HCA scores, color, clarity, cut, size, what she likes, etc and so on. Yes, the purchaser needs to do his/her due diligence and it is on them (buyer beware), and of course the vendor has realities also (time pressures from the cutter,etc), so maybe this should be less a call for a fixed number of days and more a suggestion that vendors increase information about the rules when stones are called in from the outside - in the interest of education and good customer relations.

Brellymom seems one of the few to be speaking from the point of view of an "average" PS consumer (probably more educated than many diamond buyers). I''ve been on PS for over a year and have to tell you that although I may know a bit about idealscopes and ASET images, I don''t at all understand the workings of the diamond business. I know that many of you have specialized knowledge about the business, but the distinction between in-house and out-sourced would have likely been lost on my had I been shopping for a stone. Add to that the fact that there doesn''t seem to be an independent appraiser near me so I would be shipping the stone to the appraiser, then back to me, and I think 10 days is a pretty tight time frame.

I think it is quite reasonable to ask for more info from vendors and to expect that they will be very clear about what is what. For example, "Yes, Ms. Consumer, we will be glad to send this to your appraiser. Please remember that this is a stone we brought in for you and, therefore, you have 10 days, starting today, to examine it and make a final decision. ". After all, the vendor is well aware that the consumer wants to have it examined by the appraiser since vendor is shipping it there.

I mean, when you are buying online-and sight unseen-there is a higher expectation that the vendor will give you as much info as possible. It''s not at all analogous to buying from your local B&M (for both good and bad reasons). I wouldn''t be at all comfortable buying online if I didn''t trust that the vendor would be totally up front with me about the stone and his/her policies both good and bad. I want the vendor to tell me about the negatives of the stone I am considering-both technical specs and availability or lack of return. I can''t emphasize strongly enough how heavily I will rely on the vendor-who has the specialized knowedge, after all.

Luckily for me, this thread has been it''s own form of education. I''ll be asking lots of questions regarding return policies from now on and will direct my business to those vendors, like Wink, who focus on giving the buyer adequate time to make such an important decision.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Date: 3/7/2010 11:05:29 AM
Author: Gayletmom

Date: 3/7/2010 9:02:18 AM
Author: brellymom
So it seems that we agree that Return Policies should be easily available and clearly stated. What I get from reading posts thus far is there is some question as to the availability and clarity about return policies related to inhouse vs. externally sourced stones. So I ask myself - are we to assume that online purchasers understand the difference between outside and inhouse stones? (or should I say, reasonably assume?) I just don''t know. And if they do (or don''t), rather than calling for an x-day requirement, should vendors [just] more clearly state the definitions thereof, the different return policies (if any), and then ensure that purchasers know what they are getting when the pursue one or the other?


i haven''t decided, but I am not sure every purchaser of a stone online would know (retain, remember, ''get'') this difference. I think when making a purchase of this type, individuals don''t do it often enough to remember everything - HCA scores, color, clarity, cut, size, what she likes, etc and so on. Yes, the purchaser needs to do his/her due diligence and it is on them (buyer beware), and of course the vendor has realities also (time pressures from the cutter,etc), so maybe this should be less a call for a fixed number of days and more a suggestion that vendors increase information about the rules when stones are called in from the outside - in the interest of education and good customer relations.

Brellymom seems one of the few to be speaking from the point of view of an ''average'' PS consumer (probably more educated than many diamond buyers). I''ve been on PS for over a year and have to tell you that although I may know a bit about idealscopes and ASET images, I don''t at all understand the workings of the diamond business. I know that many of you have specialized knowledge about the business, but the distinction between in-house and out-sourced would have likely been lost on my had I been shopping for a stone. Add to that the fact that there doesn''t seem to be an independent appraiser near me so I would be shipping the stone to the appraiser, then back to me, and I think 10 days is a pretty tight time frame.

I think it is quite reasonable to ask for more info from vendors and to expect that they will be very clear about what is what. For example, ''Yes, Ms. Consumer, we will be glad to send this to your appraiser. Please remember that this is a stone we brought in for you and, therefore, you have 10 days, starting today, to examine it and make a final decision. ''. After all, the vendor is well aware that the consumer wants to have it examined by the appraiser since vendor is shipping it there.

I mean, when you are buying online-and sight unseen-there is a higher expectation that the vendor will give you as much info as possible. It''s not at all analogous to buying from your local B&M (for both good and bad reasons). I wouldn''t be at all comfortable buying online if I didn''t trust that the vendor would be totally up front with me about the stone and his/her policies both good and bad. I want the vendor to tell me about the negatives of the stone I am considering-both technical specs and availability or lack of return. I can''t emphasize strongly enough how heavily I will rely on the vendor-who has the specialized knowedge, after all.

Luckily for me, this thread has been it''s own form of education. I''ll be asking lots of questions regarding return policies from now on and will direct my business to those vendors, like Wink, who focus on giving the buyer adequate time to make such an important decision.

And therein lies the beauty of PS - the knowledge and information that can be gained here is second to none.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 3/7/2010 5:02:17 AM
Author: henearly89



Wink, as per your policies, I''m sure they are fair. I''m sure you note the distinction to your consumer when they are not buying one of your diamonds. I''m sure you also tell your consumers that since you do not already have this diamond in house, it is not something you are going to want to be stuck with, and therefore, all sales are final. And 21 days is very very reasonable. I think you also make it clear to consumers if/when they are buying freshly cut diamonds, no? You seem to do a great job of communicating with your customers and should be commended as such. My problem is not with you. It is with vendors who have 10 day return policies and do not make the distinction clear to their consumers. My problem is with vendors who source diamonds that don''t meet their standards and sell them to consumers regardless without warning consumers they won''t be able to return the diamond because it does not meet your standards.

Understood and appreciated

For some of us who are not buying the well supplied 1 carat, H, SI1''s, it takes months to find a diamond that meets our required specifications. The option to CHOOSE our vendor is not always present.

Herein lies the meat of your dilemma.

There seems to be a confusion here among many that diamonds are fungible and interchangeable. The expectation that somehow one of BN''s diamonds, or JA''s diamonds (or one of anyone else''s diamonds) is equal to one of of Paul''s Infinity diamonds just because the numbers are similar. This simply is not true. There are differences, albeit that they may be incredibly similar, from one diamond to the next. Often they are very different, although the differences may be quite difficult for the layman to appreciate, and those differences have a way of being reflected in the pricing of the diamonds and the policies of the vendors will also be reflected in the pricing of the diamonds.

Add in the complexity of desires that different buyers have settled on and suddenly there are many complex issues to be dealt with, including the bewildering disparity of policies and prices between vendors. Quite frankly, no one vendor can have every thing desired by all of the consumers. Some want only the best pricing, some want only the biggest diamond for their dollar, cutting be darned, so long as it is at least a little bit pretty. Some want great trade up policies and guaranteed buy backs, some could care less, just drop the price. Some care that their diamond be the best, most consistently perfectly cut diamonds, some just want the lowest price. Some want specific combinations and are willing to pay for them, and wait for them. (It took nearly a year for Infinity to source and cut a specific diamond for one of my clients, but they did it because the client was willing to spend what it took, and wait until it could be accomplished.) Some just want something to make their lady happy and could care less about all of the minutiae that wrap the Pricescope community up in interesting threads for days on end.

I wish I could wave my wand and make everyone''s business practices uniformly transparent and acceptable to all, but I fear that is both impossible and inpractical. After all, what I deem proper may seem inappropriate to others, just as what they deem proper seems inappropriate to me. Just for one obvious example, I deem the process of trying to commoditize diamonds as completely innapropriate, as they are totally NOT fungible. I totally accept and appreciate that those clients who only want the price of a commodity will never be my clients. In fact, I prefer that they not be my clients. I want to deal with people who expect me to be here tomorrow and who will pay a very small premium for the policies that they desire, such as lifetime trade up, guaranteed buy back, and other value added services that I provide.

Although this thread has been a bit heated I want to thank you for starting it. Thinking about it has given me a great excercise in understanding my own business better and allowing me to be able to clarify in my own mind the value of dealing with a wonderful vendor like Paul who expends great energy and expense in making policies for his vendors that have value both to them and to a certain segment of the buying public. There are many other vendors on this forum who similarly serve their clientele with great value added services, and there are those who offer only the hook of the lowest price. Each of us serve the different segments of the market that desire the particular level of service and price that comes with it.

Now, if only we could all make it obvious to the public which ones of us are which, it would be easier for you all to decide on whom you wished to do business with. Therein lies both the quandry and the fun of this oh so public search for the perfect diamond. We all (vendors, prosumers and other consumers) try to help you, when we too do not necessarily know which type of client you are, or understand all of your needs. This makes for great discussions, sometimes heated, and in the end, hopefully, the better selection of the diamond that is right for you.

I wish for you the successful conclusion of your search, and I thank you for making me think.

Wink

 

[Hest88]

For some of us who are not buying the well supplied 1 carat, H, SI1''s, it takes months to find a diamond that meets our required specifications. The option to CHOOSE our vendor is not always present.

henearly, I''m not sure if I''m understanding this correctly. It sounds like that''s exactly what you tried to do. You knew what diamond you wanted, you went back and forth trying to get your ideal price/policy, but there was never any doubt that the diamond existed. Plus, it sounds like where *something* fell down was in the extremely common scenario of having a salesperson not be complete well-versed in the company policies.

Date: 3/7/2010 9:08:50 AM
Author: MissGotRocks
I think that''s why it''s advised to find a vendor - whose policies you do understand and like - and then the stone.

Exactly. I love Pricescope, obviously, but I''ve never understood the tendency of many new consumers to go back and forth and back and forth agonizing over the minutiae of ten different stones and getting majorly stressed and confused, when they could be using less energy by first figuring out which vendor(s) they feel most comfortable with.

Plus, with the Internet it''s so easy to compare and contrast, but the "there''s no such thing as a free lunch" caveat still applies. You can get the best price, the best service, the biggest selection or the most expert advice, but you can''t expect to get them all in the same place. Something has got to give, eventually, for any vendor to stay in business and a savvy consumer needs to figure out what''s most important for him.

 

[Dreamer_D]

First, why not name "vendor X" so that they can have some feedback?

Second:

Date: 3/7/2010 5:02:17 AM
Author: henearly89
At that point I decided to go with Vendor X. I called them up and told them I would like to bring in their stone. I gave them all info and was about to hang up the phone when I asked them, just to be sure, to confirm the return policy for this stone if they got it for me. It was then and only then that they told me this stone was not an in-house diamond and was therefore was not eligible for the extended return. Surprised, I told her that the previous agent told me otherwise. She then explained the distinction between having them source a diamond and having them look for a diamond that THEY decided to bring in-house.

Needless to say I did not continue with this vendor because I was not happy with the policies for non in house stones. But this vendor did not inform me of this. In fact, they did enough to inform me otherwise that I felt assured I would be getting the favorable policies. They did not explain that distinction to me and I am confident the average consumer would not have understood either.

Sounds like they did advise you, which is why you decided to use a different vendor.

 

[Maisie]

I wonder if it would be possible for vendors to have a special circumstance return policy for overseas customers? I have purchased 4 diamonds from US vendors and didn''t see them until they were set in a ring and shipped to me. Its lucky that I liked them as they were bought based on the opinion of the vendor.

 

[kenny]

My 2 cents:

1. Vendors, PS or not, can have whatever policies they want.

2. Customers should do their homework on policies and do a search here about the vendor before deciding which vendor to buy from.

3. Do not complain when your vendor follows to their published policies to the letter. (IOW, day 11 is not the same as day 10.)

 

[Hest88]

Date: 3/7/2010 2:33:03 PM
Author: Maisie
I wonder if it would be possible for vendors to have a special circumstance return policy for overseas customers?

Interesting idea. However, I suspect there''s very little incentive for a vendor to do so. There''d be little recourse for a vendor if an overseas client were unscrupulous or whatnot.

 

[henearly89]

Date: 3/7/2010 2:21:28 PM
Author: dreamer_d
First, why not name ''vendor X'' so that they can have some feedback?

Second:

Date: 3/7/2010 5:02:17 AM
Author: henearly89
At that point I decided to go with Vendor X. I called them up and told them I would like to bring in their stone. I gave them all info and was about to hang up the phone when I asked them, just to be sure, to confirm the return policy for this stone if they got it for me. It was then and only then that they told me this stone was not an in-house diamond and was therefore was not eligible for the extended return. Surprised, I told her that the previous agent told me otherwise. She then explained the distinction between having them source a diamond and having them look for a diamond that THEY decided to bring in-house.

Needless to say I did not continue with this vendor because I was not happy with the policies for non in house stones. But this vendor did not inform me of this. In fact, they did enough to inform me otherwise that I felt assured I would be getting the favorable policies. They did not explain that distinction to me and I am confident the average consumer would not have understood either.

Sounds like they did advise you, which is why you decided to use a different vendor.

She did more to confuse me then to explain their policy. She left me feeling as though I would, in fact, be entitled to their favorable policies. It was only my wonderful interactions with Sheerah at WhiteFlash that made me ask one last time to make sure. Ultimately, I feel as though a vendor should offer the same policies for sourced diamonds as they do for in-house diamonds UNLESS they are clear in communicating to the customer that the sourced diamond does not meet the same standards as the stones they usually sell so while they will source it for you, they are not going to accompany it with the same in-house policies.

 

[IceExplorer]

Date: 3/7/2010 2:55:06 PM
Author: kenny
My 2 cents:
1. Vendors, PS or not, can have whatever policies they want.

2. Customers should do their homework on policies and do a search here about the vendor before deciding which vendor to buy from.

3. Do not complain when your vendor follows to their published policies to the letter. (IOW, day 11 is not the same as day 10.)

Ditto!
In addition to that:
Someone earlier mentioned (I think it was DenverAppraiser) something about: Find your jeweller first, then find your diamond.

This is very logical (to me anyway).

Otherwise...
It''s like paying for a renovation then looking for a contractor.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 3/7/2010 3:39:42 PM
Author: Hest88

Date: 3/7/2010 2:33:03 PM
Author: Maisie
I wonder if it would be possible for vendors to have a special circumstance return policy for overseas customers?

Interesting idea. However, I suspect there''s very little incentive for a vendor to do so. There''d be little recourse for a vendor if an overseas client were unscrupulous or whatnot.

Interestingly enough, for a client there is always incentive to treat them right. Perhaps for a one time customer, some retailers might not be thinking so far ahead.

I was one of the retailers that Maisie bought from and I would have probably made special arrangements with her had she asked. I might add that I would expect any of the Pricescope vendors to have discussed it with her and then to do what they can. Each will have their limits to what they can or can not do.

As for unscrupulous clients, we vendors probably have the advantage here, as we have been wire transferred the money and there will be no giving it back if we do not receive the gem back in an undamaged condition. That is one of the nice things about wire transfer, it is not subject to the whimsy of a cc company who may unfairly take the side of a consumer in a complaint.

I also offered just last week to send a diamond to Australia for a client to look at, but he decided based on the video that I sent him along with all the other information to just have me send it to Mark Morrell.

So yes, we have our policies written to protect us and to inform our clients, and yes, we can, against the advice of our attorneys bend them if we choose. That is half the fun of being in business, getting to write and rewrite the rules from time to time.

The reality is, most of us love what we do, and we will bend over backwards to help our clients, sometimes to our own detriment. That is why we end up writing policies and rules, to remind us of what happened when we did not follow them, especially BEFORE we had them.

Interesting question though, and interesting response from Hest. Both are clients of ours, and both seeing the question from different points of view. It is further illumination to just how complex this whole issue is.

Wink

 

[kenny]

Date: 3/7/2010 3:58:11 PM
Author: IceExplorer
Find your jeweller first, then find your diamond.[/b]

I disagree.
I want the price to be determined by the vendor knowing it must compete on the Internet for a buyer, so they price it competitively.

If they have a buyer lined up, who will be the only one to ever see the price, they could price it higher and you'd never know.

All the diamonds I have ever bought had a price published on the Internet.

 

[Lula]

Date: 3/7/2010 3:58:11 PM
Author: IceExplorer

Date: 3/7/2010 2:55:06 PM

Author: kenny

My 2 cents:

1. Vendors, PS or not, can have whatever policies they want.


2. Customers should do their homework on policies and do a search here about the vendor before deciding which vendor to buy from.


3. Do not complain when your vendor follows to their published policies to the letter. (IOW, day 11 is not the same as day 10.)

Ditto!

In addition to that:

Someone earlier mentioned (I think it was DenverAppraiser) something about: Find your jeweller first, then find your diamond.


This is very logical (to me anyway).


Otherwise...

It's like paying for a renovation then looking for a contractor.

Ditto this!

And I'd add, unless you are a well-educated or repeat diamond customer or are looking for something very specific, stay away from the virtual listings and work with the vendor on what they have in-house. The virtual listings create additional risk for you and the vendor if you don't like the stone after they bring it in for you.

 

[DiceKTak]

Date: 3/7/2010 2:55:06 PM
Author: kenny
My 2 cents:

1. Vendors, PS or not, can have whatever policies they want.

2. Customers should do their homework on policies and do a search here about the vendor before deciding which vendor to buy from.

3. Do not complain when your vendor follows to their published policies to the letter. (IOW, day 11 is not the same as day 10.)

I agree with 1 and 2 so long as salespersons are well-versed in these policies and do not try (deliberately or otherwise) to mislead consumers into believing they are getting something they are not.

I strongly disagree with #3. There is no reason the industry has to operate in such a way that day 11 is 30% different than day 10. It is only doing so because it can, and it only can because enough consumers haven''t spoken up about it and made a point about the importance of this. I think that will change in time. Meanwhile, the inventory cost of that lost day on a $6000 diamond is NOT $1800 for that one day. Nor do diamonds lose value between day 10 and day 11. The odds that you would have sold that diamond on day 11 are, based on my own observations of the average sales time of in-house diamonds in the industry, around what, 1/40? This is based on a small sample of tracking of in-house diamonds at GOG and WF. You can answer this question better than I. So take your margin (again, something you know more about than I do) and divide it by 40. For a $400 margin and 40 day sales time, it costs about $10 dollars to accept the return on day 11 instead of day 10. So why are you charging us $1800? Because you can.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 3/7/2010 2:33:03 PM
Author: Maisie
I wonder if it would be possible for vendors to have a special circumstance return policy for overseas customers? I have purchased 4 diamonds from US vendors and didn''t see them until they were set in a ring and shipped to me. Its lucky that I liked them as they were bought based on the opinion of the vendor.

Why *would* they? Just to be "nice"? Then selling to oversees clients would be less desirable for vendors. Why not try to sell the diamond to a US citizen who doesn''t request "special circumstances"?

This just comes down to, as in the original scenario posted by the OP, that buying is not a RIGHT. You do not have a RIGHT to optimal, equal policies and lowest possible prices from every vendor you desire to purchase from. You might LIKE that -- but this is a business like any other business. Its not any more important because of the emotional nature of engagements (which, the OP might want to keep in mind, is a very small percentage of overall internet & B&M jewelry sales ANYWAY).

People tend to think of their own circumstances as "special" when they are usually quite typical. Folks also tend to assume that THEY are smart enough to figure things out but "regular folk" are too dumb to do the same. Its quite transparent what is going on in this thread -- at least to long time Pscopers. Newbie wants to change the whole industry after one snag in his own highly emotional purchase. And what people are saying is: Um, no. Its not the system that''s broken. And its not the system''s responsibility to dumb itself down to the lowest common denomenator. Why does everyone feel so entitled these days? Geez.

 

[kenny]

If you don't like 10 days go with a vendor that has 30 days.
But then you'd probably whine on day 31.

Some people just feel the rules don't apply to them.

 

[henearly89]

Date: 3/7/2010 4:01:45 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 3/7/2010 3:39:42 PM
Author: Hest88

Date: 3/7/2010 2:33:03 PM
Author: Maisie
I wonder if it would be possible for vendors to have a special circumstance return policy for overseas customers?

Interesting idea. However, I suspect there''s very little incentive for a vendor to do so. There''d be little recourse for a vendor if an overseas client were unscrupulous or whatnot.

Interestingly enough, for a client there is always incentive to treat them right. Perhaps for a one time customer, some retailers might not be thinking so far ahead.

I was one of the retailers that Maisie bought from and I would have probably made special arrangements with her had she asked. I might add that I would expect any of the Pricescope vendors to have discussed it with her and then to do what they can. Each will have their limits to what they can or can not do.

As for unscrupulous clients, we vendors probably have the advantage here, as we have been wire transferred the money and there will be no giving it back if we do not receive the gem back in an undamaged condition. That is one of the nice things about wire transfer, it is not subject to the whimsy of a cc company who may unfairly take the side of a consumer in a complaint.

I also offered just last week to send a diamond to Australia for a client to look at, but he decided based on the video that I sent him along with all the other information to just have me send it to Mark Morrell.

So yes, we have our policies written to protect us and to inform our clients, and yes, we can, against the advice of our attorneys bend them if we choose. That is half the fun of being in business, getting to write and rewrite the rules from time to time.

The reality is, most of us love what we do, and we will bend over backwards to help our clients, sometimes to our own detriment. That is why we end up writing policies and rules, to remind us of what happened when we did not follow them, especially BEFORE we had them.

Interesting question though, and interesting response from Hest. Both are clients of ours, and both seeing the question from different points of view. It is further illumination to just how complex this whole issue is.

Wink

That alone would make a difference. Thanks for taking part in this thread Wink.

 

[Maisie]

Date: 3/7/2010 4:09:39 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 3/7/2010 2:33:03 PM
Author: Maisie
I wonder if it would be possible for vendors to have a special circumstance return policy for overseas customers? I have purchased 4 diamonds from US vendors and didn''t see them until they were set in a ring and shipped to me. Its lucky that I liked them as they were bought based on the opinion of the vendor.

Why *would* they? Just to be ''nice''? Then selling to oversees clients would be less desirable for vendors. Why not try to sell the diamond to a US citizen who doesn''t request ''special circumstances''?

This just comes down to, as in the original scenario posted by the OP, that buying is not a RIGHT. You do not have a RIGHT to optimal, equal policies and lowest possible prices from every vendor you desire to purchase from. You might LIKE that -- but this is a business like any other business. Its not any more important because of the emotional nature of engagements (which, the OP might want to keep in mind, is a very small percentage of overall internet & B&M jewelry sales ANYWAY).

People tend to think of their own circumstances as ''special'' when they are usually quite typical. Folks also tend to assume that THEY are smart enough to figure things out but ''regular folk'' are too dumb to do the same. Its quite transparent what is going on in this thread -- at least to long time Pscopers. Newbie wants to change the whole industry after one snag in his own highly emotional purchase. And what people are saying is: Um, no. Its not the system that''s broken. And its not the system''s responsibility to dumb itself down to the lowest common denomenator. Why does everyone feel so entitled these days? Geez.

I put forward an idea. I don''t know why you are being snarky. Or maybe its not aimed at me?

 

[henearly89]

Date: 3/7/2010 4:11:17 PM
Author: kenny

Date: 3/7/2010 4:09:16 PM
Author: DiceKTak

Date: 3/7/2010 2:55:06 PM

Author: kenny

My 2 cents:


1. Vendors, PS or not, can have whatever policies they want.


2. Customers should do their homework on policies and do a search here about the vendor before deciding which vendor to buy from.


3. Do not complain when your vendor follows to their published policies to the letter. (IOW, day 11 is not the same as day 10.)

I agree with 1 and 2 so long as salespersons are well-versed in these policies and do not try (deliberately or otherwise) to mislead consumers into believing they are getting something they are not.

I strongly disagree with #3. There is no reason the industry has to operate in such a way that day 11 is 30% different than day 10. It is only doing so because it can, and it only can because enough consumers haven''t spoken up about it and made a point about the importance of this. I think that will change in time. Meanwhile, the inventory cost of that lost day on a $6000 diamond is NOT $1800 for that one day. Nor do diamonds lose value between day 10 and day 11. The odds that you would have sold that diamond on day 11 are, based on my own observations of the average sales time of in-house diamonds in the industry, around what, 1/40? This is based on a small sample of tracking of in-house diamonds at GOG and WF. You can answer this question better than I. So take your margin (again, something you know more about than I do) and divide it by 40. For a $400 margin and 40 day sales time, it costs about $10 dollars to accept the return on day 11 instead of day 10. So why are you charging us $1800? Because you can.

If you don''t like 10 days go with a vendor that has 30 days.
But then you''d whine on day 31.

Not at all. If a customer can''t make a decision by day 30, too bad. Probably wasn''t the right diamond for you. But it takes 2-3 days to ship a diamond to you. 2 or so for your appraiser to look at it and get it back in the mail. 2-3 to get it back to you. It wouldn''t be hard to believe it''s day 9 before a consumer actually got to see their purchase for the very first time. You are not a B&M. In a B&M, I can walk in the store and LOOK at my diamond. I don''t pick my vendor and then the diamond. I find my diamond and see what vendor can provide the services I require. Often, price is my last consideration. I''m willing to PAY for the extra inspection period. But the option to go to a vendor with 14+ day returns AND Idealscope images isn''t always present. Vendors (understandably) only stock the most common combinations. Someone looking for a GIF is going to have a ton a trouble finding that diamond with a 14+ day return period AND Idealscope images or other analysis. Blue Nile and other virtual listing are about their ONLY option.

 

[Lula]

Yesterday, I returned a pillow I bought from Pottery Barn. The SA told me that she could only give me a merchandise credit, and not a refund, because I was returning it on the 31st day after I bought it and their return period for refunds is 30 days. She was apologetic; I said, not a problem, I didn''t read the receipt!

Did the pillow drop in value on the 31st day? No. The store is selling the same pillow; it''s in their spring line. But the store''s policy was clear; I chose not to read the receipt. For a store to stay in business, a sale does need to be final at some point. And I thought the merchandise credit I got was more than fair.

 

[kenny]

So don't buy from a 10-day vendor.

Others do.
I have.

People vary.
Vendors vary.

 

[henearly89]

Snarkiness has become commonplace on this site. Rather than approach an OP from the perspective of, maybe there really is a structural hole in the industry that isn''t being addressed and reflecting upon that possibility, they''d rather act holier than thou. Wink''s response on this thread was a sign of significant professional. You can tell he took the time to listen and consider his response thoughtfully, reflecting along the way. That does not happen often enough.

Again, kudos to Wink.

 

[kenny]

More words would only muddy up a very simple point.

 

[Maisie]

Date: 3/7/2010 4:26:50 PM
Author: henearly89
Snarkiness has become commonplace on this site. Rather than approach an OP from the perspective of, maybe there really is a structural hole in the industry that isn''t being addressed and reflecting upon that possibility, they''d rather act holier than thou. Wink''s response on this thread was a sign of significant professional. You can tell he took the time to listen and consider his response thoughtfully, reflecting along the way. That does not happen often enough.

Again, kudos to Wink.

I absolutely agree. Wink has been a great vendor to work with and I woudn''t hesitate to recommend him or work with him again.

 

[henearly89]

Kenny,

Again, that isn''t always an option. When it is, fine. But certain stone combinations are NOT available in the in-house industry. Go look for a D IF in the .75 carat range in the AGS000 or H&A cut quality. It doesn''t exist in the PS search. You''d have to go to one of the drop shippers, where you won''t find an idealscope or any confirmation you are actually getting an H&A.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 3/7/2010 4:11:17 PM
Author: kenny
If you don''t like 10 days go with a vendor that has 30 days.
But then you''d probably whine on day 31.

Some people just feel the rules don''t apply to them.

This!!!

 

[Lula]

Date: 3/7/2010 4:29:41 PM
Author: henearly89
Kenny,


Again, that isn't always an option. When it is, fine. But certain stone combinations are NOT available in the in-house industry. Go look for a D IF in the .75 carat range in the AGS000 or H&A cut quality. It doesn't exist in the PS search. You'd have to go to one of the drop shippers, where you won't find an idealscope or any confirmation you are actually getting an H&A.

If you choose your vendor first, and establish a relationship with them, they will get to know you and have a better understanding of what you're looking for. The vendors recommended on this site would be more than happy to work with you to find you want you want, and would no doubt be more efficient at finding it for you than you would be searching the virtual listings. I really do think you're going about this a bit backwards, since what you're looking for seems to require a bit more patience to find, and, yes, you may have to put your trust in a specific vendor and work with that vendor over time -- whether it's a B&M or an online vendor.

Just randomly calling in stones from the virtual listings is expensive, risky, and time-consuming, imho. And a potential waste of time for a vendor.
Wink works directly with the cutter of Crafted by Infinity diamonds, Paul Slegers, who could advise Wink of how long it would take to source a stone meeting your expectations.