Calling on Vendors to Enact Across the Board 30 Day Returns...

[bgray]

Date: 3/6/2010 9:13:36 PM
Author: henearly89

Date: 3/6/2010 9:00:48 PM

Author: Gypsy

Date: 3/6/2010 8:48:08 PM

Author: henearly89

If the vendor is willing to source a stone that they themselves do not see fit to bring in house, how about making that clear to the consumer. Too often they do not. I can speak from first hand experience with 2 of the bigger vendors on PS. One made that clear, one did not.

Okay. So let me get this straight. You are talking to WALLYS WACKY WORLD OF DIAMONDS (completely fictional store... I *hope*) , a BIG Lazare dealer, and you ask Wally to source you a non-Lazare stone. Now, you are on PS, so you obviously know how to use the web and on their website in their policies section it says that LAZARE stones qualify for X and Y, and that others are on a case by case basis. You are not buying an Lazare stone, and it is somehow the VENDOR''S fault that it doesn''t occur to you to ask what the specific polices are pertaining to your stone?


How is that the vendor''s fault? YOU didn''t ask. They aren''t telepathic and frankly, some people don''t care about trade in or buy back policies (case in point all of Blue Nile''s customers) how are they supposed to know A) what information you have read, or not read on their websites and B) what questions you have about that information... or in general or whether you are planning to have the purchase appraised, or just plan to let the ring sit in your dresser drawer for 6 months waiting for aquairus rising and pluto to be in a specific orbit when you propose because Madame Zelda told you that you shouldn''t propose until these astrological conditions have been met.


Sorry... I''m not buying that any vendor, PS or otherwise, is to blame because you can''t read policies or ask questions, or *gasp* get things in writing. IF YOU care whether a stone is used or not, it''s your responsibility to understand that A) the industry does not track this B) MANY stones are ''used and C) that there are only certain specific vendors and certain specific stones that will meet your needs and YOU need to ask on a case by case basis if this is the case.

Conduct a basic poll of consumers on the issue of whether or not they care about whether the stone they are buying is used. Not Pricescope consumers. All consumers. Me thinks that if this information was easy to verify and available to consumers, that fact would be the MOST important factor in purchase decisions. More important than carat weight, cut, color, or clarity. The fact is, the industry does not track this BECAUSE it is in their benefit to keep this factor from becoming commonplace. Most consumers do not even realize that the stone they are wearing on their finger may have previously been worn by a couple who got divorced.


As per your earlier comment, this is very easy to do as a consumer. You go to a PS vendor asking about stone x, which qualfies for all of their return polcies. You go to another vendor and find stone Y. You tell the original vendor who says they will source stone Y for you. You had already looked at return policies, and do not realize that stone Y will not qualify for the same polciesi as stone X because the vendor isn''t upfront about it. Happens all the time. Not everyone is diligent enough to check again for fine print with regard to the change. Not everyone knows how the industry works enough to realize that the second stone is consider a sourced stone. Just because YOU are aware of the distinction, doesn''t mean Jane Smith is. Jane Smith can be an educated, active consumer and not realize she is going to get inferior return policies on the second stone. Jane Smith could easily be you when it comes to an industry you are not familiar with.

what?

 

[henearly89]

These things can be quantified. Poll consumers. The majority will find this to be "not for everyone."

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 3/6/2010 9:13:36 PM
Author: henearly89

Date: 3/6/2010 9:00:48 PM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 3/6/2010 8:48:08 PM
Author: henearly89
If the vendor is willing to source a stone that they themselves do not see fit to bring in house, how about making that clear to the consumer. Too often they do not. I can speak from first hand experience with 2 of the bigger vendors on PS. One made that clear, one did not.

Okay. So let me get this straight. You are talking to WALLYS WACKY WORLD OF DIAMONDS (completely fictional store... I *hope*) , a BIG Lazare dealer, and you ask Wally to source you a non-Lazare stone. Now, you are on PS, so you obviously know how to use the web and on their website in their policies section it says that LAZARE stones qualify for X and Y, and that others are on a case by case basis. You are not buying an Lazare stone, and it is somehow the VENDOR'S fault that it doesn't occur to you to ask what the specific polices are pertaining to your stone?

How is that the vendor's fault? YOU didn't ask. They aren't telepathic and frankly, some people don't care about trade in or buy back policies (case in point all of Blue Nile's customers) how are they supposed to know A) what information you have read, or not read on their websites and B) what questions you have about that information... or in general or whether you are planning to have the purchase appraised, or just plan to let the ring sit in your dresser drawer for 6 months waiting for aquairus rising and pluto to be in a specific orbit when you propose because Madame Zelda told you that you shouldn't propose until these astrological conditions have been met.

Sorry... I'm not buying that any vendor, PS or otherwise, is to blame because you can't read policies or ask questions, or *gasp* get things in writing. IF YOU care whether a stone is used or not, it's your responsibility to understand that A) the industry does not track this B) MANY stones are 'used and C) that there are only certain specific vendors and certain specific stones that will meet your needs and YOU need to ask on a case by case basis if this is the case.

Conduct a basic poll of consumers on the issue of whether or not they care about whether the stone they are buying is used. Not Pricescope consumers. All consumers. Me thinks that if this information was easy to verify and available to consumers, that fact would be the MOST important factor in purchase decisions. More important than carat weight, cut, color, or clarity. The fact is, the industry does not track this BECAUSE it is in their benefit to keep this factor from becoming commonplace. Most consumers do not even realize that the stone they are wearing on their finger may have previously been worn by a couple who got divorced.

As per your earlier comment, this is very easy to do as a consumer. You go to a PS vendor asking about stone x, which qualfies for all of their return polcies. You go to another vendor and find stone Y. You tell the original vendor who says they will source stone Y for you. You had already looked at return policies, and do not realize that stone Y will not qualify for the same polciesi as stone X because the vendor isn't upfront about it. Happens all the time. Not everyone is diligent enough to check again for fine print with regard to the change. Not everyone knows how the industry works enough to realize that the second stone is consider a sourced stone. Just because YOU are aware of the distinction, doesn't mean Jane Smith is. Jane Smith can be an educated, active consumer and not realize she is going to get inferior return policies on the second stone. Jane Smith could easily be you when it comes to an industry you are not familiar with.

Yeah. You are getting MY arguement and someone else's confused. I NEVER (and since you quoted my post, how about reading it... hmm???) I never said or implied that *I* am aware of any special distinction between in house and non-in house, I said that in the senario I posed it is CLEAR AS DAY to you that you are not buying a Lazare diamond and that ON THE VENDORS WEBSITE it states that non-Lazare diamonds are evaluated for policies on a case by case basis. And that as a result of the customers OWN actions by requesting a non-Lazare stone they should have asked about the specific policy for their stone.

I will bet you ANYTHING. That these 'two PS vendors' you have 'experience with' have it stated in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS what the policies are for in-house versus outside stones and that YOU JUST DIDN'T READ IT AT ALL, OR perhaps, CORRECTLY.

Prove me wrong. I dare ya.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 3/6/2010 8:46:36 PM
Author: honey22

Date: 3/6/2010 7:36:14 PM
Author: denverappraiser
How about just refusing to buy from a vender who has terms and conditions that you don’t like? As you point out, there’s plenty of competitors.


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

Professional Appraisals in Denver

Ditto. They are in the business to make money, end of story. Why should they cover the costs of sourcing a diamond they don''t see fit to keep as an in house stone? They have stones in house for a reason, they have confidence in their ability to sell them. Why should they bring in a stone for a consumer and then cover the costs if they don''t want it.

Vendors are here to run their business, not bend over backwards for customers. Get real! If you don''t like it, go somewhere else!

agree,especially at sucha low profit margin nowadays.

 

[bgray]

Date: 3/6/2010 9:19:01 PM
Author: henearly89
These things can be quantified. Poll consumers. The majority will find this to be ''not for everyone.''

It is not my responsibility to "poll consumers" --consumers educated or not walk with their feet and their dollars. We dont need a "big brother" to think and do for us--at least on Pricescope.

 

[henearly89]

Date: 3/6/2010 9:19:32 PM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 3/6/2010 9:13:36 PM
Author: henearly89

Date: 3/6/2010 9:00:48 PM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 3/6/2010 8:48:08 PM
Author: henearly89
If the vendor is willing to source a stone that they themselves do not see fit to bring in house, how about making that clear to the consumer. Too often they do not. I can speak from first hand experience with 2 of the bigger vendors on PS. One made that clear, one did not.

Okay. So let me get this straight. You are talking to WALLYS WACKY WORLD OF DIAMONDS (completely fictional store... I *hope*) , a BIG Lazare dealer, and you ask Wally to source you a non-Lazare stone. Now, you are on PS, so you obviously know how to use the web and on their website in their policies section it says that LAZARE stones qualify for X and Y, and that others are on a case by case basis. You are not buying an Lazare stone, and it is somehow the VENDOR''S fault that it doesn''t occur to you to ask what the specific polices are pertaining to your stone?

How is that the vendor''s fault? YOU didn''t ask. They aren''t telepathic and frankly, some people don''t care about trade in or buy back policies (case in point all of Blue Nile''s customers) how are they supposed to know A) what information you have read, or not read on their websites and B) what questions you have about that information... or in general or whether you are planning to have the purchase appraised, or just plan to let the ring sit in your dresser drawer for 6 months waiting for aquairus rising and pluto to be in a specific orbit when you propose because Madame Zelda told you that you shouldn''t propose until these astrological conditions have been met.

Sorry... I''m not buying that any vendor, PS or otherwise, is to blame because you can''t read policies or ask questions, or *gasp* get things in writing. IF YOU care whether a stone is used or not, it''s your responsibility to understand that A) the industry does not track this B) MANY stones are ''used and C) that there are only certain specific vendors and certain specific stones that will meet your needs and YOU need to ask on a case by case basis if this is the case.

Conduct a basic poll of consumers on the issue of whether or not they care about whether the stone they are buying is used. Not Pricescope consumers. All consumers. Me thinks that if this information was easy to verify and available to consumers, that fact would be the MOST important factor in purchase decisions. More important than carat weight, cut, color, or clarity. The fact is, the industry does not track this BECAUSE it is in their benefit to keep this factor from becoming commonplace. Most consumers do not even realize that the stone they are wearing on their finger may have previously been worn by a couple who got divorced.

As per your earlier comment, this is very easy to do as a consumer. You go to a PS vendor asking about stone x, which qualfies for all of their return polcies. You go to another vendor and find stone Y. You tell the original vendor who says they will source stone Y for you. You had already looked at return policies, and do not realize that stone Y will not qualify for the same polciesi as stone X because the vendor isn''t upfront about it. Happens all the time. Not everyone is diligent enough to check again for fine print with regard to the change. Not everyone knows how the industry works enough to realize that the second stone is consider a sourced stone. Just because YOU are aware of the distinction, doesn''t mean Jane Smith is. Jane Smith can be an educated, active consumer and not realize she is going to get inferior return policies on the second stone. Jane Smith could easily be you when it comes to an industry you are not familiar with.

Yeah. You are getting MY arguement and someone else''s confused. I NEVER (and since you quoted my post, how about reading it... hmm???) I never said that *I* am aware of any distiction, I said that in the senario I posed it is CLEAR AS DAY to you that you are not buying a Lazare diamond and that ON THE VENDORS WEBSITE it states that non-Lazare diamonds are evaluated for policies on a case by case basis.

I will bet you ANYTHING. That these ''two PS vendors'' you have ''experience with'' have it stated in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS what the policies are for in-house versus outside stones and that YOU JUST DIDN''T READ IT AT ALL, OR perhaps, CORRECTLY.

Prove me wrong. I dare ya.

No, they do have it stated. And I was aware enough of the industry to understand that they would be "sourcing" this stone and that it was not an "in-house" diamond. They did not use these terms. They did not warn me. The AVERAGE consumer would not have understood what was going on. All they hear is "we can sell you this stone, give us a few days." You are injecting your own knowledge of the industry on the average consumer. You can blame the consumer all you want for this. The fact remains, you will make this same mistake when it comes to an industry you are not familiar with at some point in your life. It is then that you will wish someone was there to protect you in situations like these.

 

[bgray]

Warn you about what?

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 3/6/2010 9:21:59 PM
Author: bgray

Date: 3/6/2010 9:19:01 PM
Author: henearly89
These things can be quantified. Poll consumers. The majority will find this to be ''not for everyone.''

It is not my responsibility to ''poll consumers'' --consumers educated or not walk with their feet and their dollars. We dont need a ''big brother'' to think and do for us--at least on Pricescope.

This is what it boils down to for me. Consumers are not forced to spend their money. They make a choice. If they are willing to do so without giving any thought to the purchase, it is on their head.

Poor little Jane needs to think a little before she spends her money.

 

[denverappraiser]

I must be missing something. You’re talking about stones that are ordered in from a third party by the dealer, right? This means that pretty much every dealer can get it, including your local B&M store. The ONLY difference is in the terms offered by the dealer. Yes, the local folks offer a convenient showroom and helpful employees (hopefully) and these are fine reasons to shop with them. As I’m sure you’ve noticed, this is NOT a free service, despite the fact that it’s not separately billed. The same is true of dealers who order in the stone for a battery of tests, spend weeks exchanging email with you or offer you tradeups, financing or ‘free’ setting or other service. There are literally thousands of competitors trying to earn your business by promoting their own set of benefits over their competitors. This is a GOOD thing. If you want a long return policy but don’t have much need for financing (for example), by all means choose a dealer who matches the style you’re looking for. I routinely advise people to choose their dealer first and the diamond second, instead of the reverse for exactly this reason.

I’m not seeing the downside here. If your hot button is the length of the return policy, Costco will give you forever, but they may not give you something else you want. If you want the rock bottom prices, don’t expect much in terms of added service and if you want a fancy showroom and free coffee, don’t expect someone to do it for a $100 markup on a $$10,000 sale. Choice is a good thing for most people but it requires YOU to make an informed decision. The onus is on them to pitch the merits of their own deal but it’s on you to decide if that’s what you want.

Pricescope sells nothing but advertising. The dealers pay to be in the database and in the banners and they do this in the hope that you’ll buy something. They set their own terms and decide on their own sales pitches. In the end, you’re doing business with the dealer, not with Pricescope. Who you choose and why is a hotly competitive issue but it seems insane to me to expect PS to be dictating to them what sort of bundle of benefits they should offer.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[decodelighted]

WHY aren''t all the vendors just answering "Yes sir, right away sir!"??

** tiptoeing off to start my new thread "Calling on Cafes to Enact Across The Board 30 Minute Returns" -- granted the meal MAY look a bit different than it arrived at the table.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 3/6/2010 9:23:57 PM
Author: henearly89

Date: 3/6/2010 9:19:32 PM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 3/6/2010 9:13:36 PM
Author: henearly89

Date: 3/6/2010 9:00:48 PM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 3/6/2010 8:48:08 PM
Author: henearly89
If the vendor is willing to source a stone that they themselves do not see fit to bring in house, how about making that clear to the consumer. Too often they do not. I can speak from first hand experience with 2 of the bigger vendors on PS. One made that clear, one did not.

Okay. So let me get this straight. You are talking to WALLYS WACKY WORLD OF DIAMONDS (completely fictional store... I *hope*) , a BIG Lazare dealer, and you ask Wally to source you a non-Lazare stone. Now, you are on PS, so you obviously know how to use the web and on their website in their policies section it says that LAZARE stones qualify for X and Y, and that others are on a case by case basis. You are not buying an Lazare stone, and it is somehow the VENDOR''S fault that it doesn''t occur to you to ask what the specific polices are pertaining to your stone?

How is that the vendor''s fault? YOU didn''t ask. They aren''t telepathic and frankly, some people don''t care about trade in or buy back policies (case in point all of Blue Nile''s customers) how are they supposed to know A) what information you have read, or not read on their websites and B) what questions you have about that information... or in general or whether you are planning to have the purchase appraised, or just plan to let the ring sit in your dresser drawer for 6 months waiting for aquairus rising and pluto to be in a specific orbit when you propose because Madame Zelda told you that you shouldn''t propose until these astrological conditions have been met.

Sorry... I''m not buying that any vendor, PS or otherwise, is to blame because you can''t read policies or ask questions, or *gasp* get things in writing. IF YOU care whether a stone is used or not, it''s your responsibility to understand that A) the industry does not track this B) MANY stones are ''used and C) that there are only certain specific vendors and certain specific stones that will meet your needs and YOU need to ask on a case by case basis if this is the case.

Conduct a basic poll of consumers on the issue of whether or not they care about whether the stone they are buying is used. Not Pricescope consumers. All consumers. Me thinks that if this information was easy to verify and available to consumers, that fact would be the MOST important factor in purchase decisions. More important than carat weight, cut, color, or clarity. The fact is, the industry does not track this BECAUSE it is in their benefit to keep this factor from becoming commonplace. Most consumers do not even realize that the stone they are wearing on their finger may have previously been worn by a couple who got divorced.

As per your earlier comment, this is very easy to do as a consumer. You go to a PS vendor asking about stone x, which qualfies for all of their return polcies. You go to another vendor and find stone Y. You tell the original vendor who says they will source stone Y for you. You had already looked at return policies, and do not realize that stone Y will not qualify for the same polciesi as stone X because the vendor isn''t upfront about it. Happens all the time. Not everyone is diligent enough to check again for fine print with regard to the change. Not everyone knows how the industry works enough to realize that the second stone is consider a sourced stone. Just because YOU are aware of the distinction, doesn''t mean Jane Smith is. Jane Smith can be an educated, active consumer and not realize she is going to get inferior return policies on the second stone. Jane Smith could easily be you when it comes to an industry you are not familiar with.

Yeah. You are getting MY arguement and someone else''s confused. I NEVER (and since you quoted my post, how about reading it... hmm???) I never said that *I* am aware of any distiction, I said that in the senario I posed it is CLEAR AS DAY to you that you are not buying a Lazare diamond and that ON THE VENDORS WEBSITE it states that non-Lazare diamonds are evaluated for policies on a case by case basis.

I will bet you ANYTHING. That these ''two PS vendors'' you have ''experience with'' have it stated in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS what the policies are for in-house versus outside stones and that YOU JUST DIDN''T READ IT AT ALL, OR perhaps, CORRECTLY.

Prove me wrong. I dare ya.

No, they do have it stated. And I was aware enough of the industry to understand that they would be ''sourcing'' this stone and that it was not an ''in-house'' diamond. They did not use these terms. They did not warn me. The AVERAGE consumer would not have understood what was going on. All they hear is ''we can sell you this stone, give us a few days.'' You are injecting your own knowledge of the industry on the average consumer. You can blame the consumer all you want for this. The fact remains, you will make this same mistake when it comes to an industry you are not familiar with at some point in your life. It is then that you will wish someone was there to protect you in situations like these.

We ask that the consumer is an educated one, and do the best to educate them on all levels.... We are a consumer forum through and through. You come here, you will get the knowledge you need to make an informed purchase....
I don''t know where your beef is, but clearly you are missing the mark here, at least...

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 3/6/2010 9:23:57 PM
Author: henearly89

No, they do have it stated. And I was aware enough of the industry to understand that they would be 'sourcing' this stone and that it was not an 'in-house' diamond. They did not use these terms. They did not warn me. The AVERAGE consumer would not have understood what was going on. All they hear is 'we can sell you this stone, give us a few days.' You are injecting your own knowledge of the industry on the average consumer. You can blame the consumer all you want for this. The fact remains, you will make this same mistake when it comes to an industry you are not familiar with at some point in your life. It is then that you will wish someone was there to protect you in situations like these.

Prove it. I don't think you are right. And yes, that is by virtue of being a PS member. Put your money where your mouth is... what vendors are we talking about? I am sure *I* can find the page on their site that makes the polices of the vendor clear... and if you don't understand them... you to ASK about the specific policies pertaining to your diamond. And while I am definitely not the 'average' diamond buyer... the policies ARE THERE and are CLEAR. Which was my point. Most folks could figure out TO ASK about their diamond. WHICH WAS THE ENTIRE POINT OF MY RESPONSE. IT IS THE CUSTOMER'S RESPONSIBILITY TO ASK IF THEY HAVE QUESTIONS.

Here you go: http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds_info/t/confidence.aspx?articleid=9&zoneid=2 Specifically refers to ACA and A Cut Above ONLY. Where's the confusion... is your stone an ACA or not?

How about this: http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/home/need-help-faq/ Under Policies and Special programs.

Or this: http://goodoldgold.com/LifetimeGuarantee/ Amgiuity? Nope.

Here maybe? http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=f-a-q Nope. Clear as day.

James Allen, anyone? http://www.jamesallen.com/about-us/upgrade-policies.asp "These policies apply to our laboratory graded diamonds only"

I feel like I'm snipe hunting. Which "MAJOR PS VENDORS" were you referring to again? Oh yeah... none of them.

 

[MissGotRocks]

There are two sides to every story. While it might be nice for all vendors to offer 30 day return policies, most businesses can''t operate that way. You would need to step into the vendors shoes to understand that. For every perk like that, the price of their goods would have to increase. They are not working on huge profit margins and can''t afford to be extended in that way.

I think we would all agree that it would be a nice thing; reality says that it can''t happen - particularly with the online prices we are accustomed to seeing. The information and lessons learned here are to ask all questions before plunking your money down. While all consumers may not have the benefit of PS, ignorance of the policies is really no excuse - it applies to most everything we do - including the laws we live by.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 3/6/2010 9:27:53 PM
Author: decodelighted
WHY aren''t all the vendors just answering ''Yes sir, right away sir!''??

** tiptoeing off to start my new thread ''Calling on Cafes to Enact Across The Board 30 Minute Returns'' -- granted the meal MAY look a bit different than it arrived at the table.

LOL! Finally a post that I dare to reply to. Wow, what a hot button this topic is!

We are not just answering ''Yes sir, right away sir!'' because we can not.

I have called in a stone that will arrive here on Tuesday for a client to look at. I must send it to her, let her have it appraised and you would NOT BELIEVE how my vendor hollered when I told him I gave my clients 21 days to make up their mind, he very nearly told me no way, but I convinced him that it would probably NOT take that long, say a couple of days at most, but I can not guarantee that. He finally relented and will send me the stone, but he did not like it one little bit!

By the way, if you read my print, somewhere, I think, it says once you say I'' own it", you own it. I will forever buy back any of my Infinity diamonds at 80% of what you paid, but not outsourced diamonds. Too many people buy something that I get for them because they want it, but I would never ever sell it again if I owned it, so I do NOT want to own it, Ever. Period! And yes, that is discussed. Especially once you have it set, you own it! Even one of my Infinity Diamonds, once you set it, it is yours. I will buy it back, but only at the 80% of what you paid, and only after it has passed inspection to verify that there was no damage. (We sent them back to AGS for inspection and updating of the report.)

For what it is worth, I give 21 days, because that is long enough. If you can not make up your mind by then, then it is probably the wrong diamond for you. In the last six or seven years, I have had only two people ever take that long. Most take a millisecond or two and some even go through the motions of seeing an appraiser, but they knew from the moment they opened the paper.

Any way, it works for me, even if the two times the whole 21 days were needed it made my stomach hurt wondering what was the matter with my beautiful diamond. Turns out nothing, both were kept. As for the one or two that were returned, they were returned well within that period, so out of hundreds of diamonds sold, the 21 days was more than enough time for all but two of them.

Now if I were making the margins you get at a restaurant or a furniture store I could be more generous, but we deal in a high ticket item with such ridiculously small margins that we must turn them several times a year if we are to pay the rent.

By the way deco, if you find a restaurant like that, please let me know where, I want to eat there at least once before they go out of business!

Wink

 

[kenleekenlee]

Date: 3/6/2010 10:20:09 PM
Author: Wink
By the way deco, if you find a restaurant like that, please let me know where, I want to eat there at least once before they go out of business!


Wink

I wonder how those returns would be handled.

Ugh haha.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 3/6/2010 10:28:30 PM
Author: kenleekenlee

Date: 3/6/2010 10:20:09 PM
Author: Wink
By the way deco, if you find a restaurant like that, please let me know where, I want to eat there at least once before they go out of business!


Wink

I wonder how those returns would be handled.

Ugh haha.

LOL! I just ate a GREAT NY strip steak. I don''t think I want to even wonder about things like that right now...

Wink

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 3/6/2010 10:20:09 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 3/6/2010 9:27:53 PM
Author: decodelighted
WHY aren''t all the vendors just answering ''Yes sir, right away sir!''??

** tiptoeing off to start my new thread ''Calling on Cafes to Enact Across The Board 30 Minute Returns'' -- granted the meal MAY look a bit different than it arrived at the table.

LOL! Finally a post that I dare to reply to. Wow, what a hot button this topic is!

We are not just answering ''Yes sir, right away sir!'' because we can not.

I have called in a stone that will arrive here on Tuesday for a client to look at. I must send it to her, let her have it appraised and you would NOT BELIEVE how my vendor hollered when I told him I gave my clients 21 days to make up their mind, he very nearly told me no way, but I convinced him that it would probably NOT take that long, say a couple of days at most, but I can not guarantee that. He finally relented and will send me the stone, but he did not like it one little bit!

By the way, if you read my print, somewhere, I think, it says once you say I'' own it'', you own it. I will forever buy back any of my Infinity diamonds at 80% of what you paid, but not outsourced diamonds. Too many people buy something that I get for them because they want it, but I would never ever sell it again if I owned it, so I do NOT want to own it, Ever. Period! And yes, that is discussed. Especially once you have it set, you own it! Even one of my Infinity Diamonds, once you set it, it is yours. I will buy it back, but only at the 80% of what you paid, and only after it has passed inspection to verify that there was no damage. (We sent them back to AGS for inspection and updating of the report.)

For what it is worth, I give 21 days, because that is long enough. If you can not make up your mind by then, then it is probably the wrong diamond for you. In the last six or seven years, I have had only two people ever take that long. Most take a millisecond or two and some even go through the motions of seeing an appraiser, but they knew from the moment they opened the paper.

Any way, it works for me, even if the two times the whole 21 days were needed it made my stomach hurt wondering what was the matter with my beautiful diamond. Turns out nothing, both were kept. As for the one or two that were returned, they were returned well within that period, so out of hundreds of diamonds sold, the 21 days was more than enough time for all but two of them.

Now if I were making the margins you get at a restaurant or a furniture store I could be more generous, but we deal in a high ticket item with such ridiculously small margins that we must turn them several times a year if we are to pay the rent.

By the way deco, if you find a restaurant like that, please let me know where, I want to eat there at least once before they go out of business!

Wink

Great post Wink.

 

[purrfectpear]

Some comments about topics in the thread:

1. You can't legislate against STUPID. Some consumers will always whine and want things their way no matter if you give them 10 days or 100 days.

2. Prove it Gypsy? Surely you jest. Posters no longer have to prove anything. They can spin and complain until the censor stick comes out.

3. Brick and Mortar stores do not let the customer look at the stone multiple times unless you've paid for it. You only get to look at the stone as long as it hasn't been sold and it's still in inventory. You might look at it at noon, and it's sold to someone else by 1:00. You don't even get ten days to make up your mind

 

[bgray]

Date: 3/6/2010 10:35:58 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Some comments about topics in the thread:


1. You can''t legislate against STUPID. Some consumers will always whine and want things their way no matter if you give them 10 days or 100 days.


2. Prove it Gypsy? Surely you jest. Posters no longer have to prove anything. They can spin and complain until the censor stick comes out.


3. Brick and Mortar stores do not let the customer look at the stone multiple times. You only get to look at the stone as long as it hasn''t been sold and is still in inventory. You might look at it at noon, and it''s sold to someone else by 1:00. You don''t even get ten days to make up your mind

 

[Gypsy]

Wink, I love your post. "I do not want to own it." Exactly. On the one hand we have people shouting "THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT" even if they can't read or speak. Or think. So a vendor has to source whatever they have decided they want "An EGL-Europe K with I3 clarity because your dog told you that's the best there is, SURE!" And on the other... they are supposed to try to re-sell it once the frozen piece of spit is returned. Uh huh.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 3/6/2010 10:50:33 PM
Author: Gypsy
Wink, I love your post. ''I do not want to own it.'' Exactly. On the one hand we have people shouting ''THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT'' even if they can''t read or speak. Or think. So a vendor has to source whatever they have decided they want ''An EGL-Europe K with I3 clarity because your dog told you that''s the best there is, SURE!'' And on the other... they are supposed to try to re-sell it once the frozen piece of spit is returned. Uh huh.

OR ... the vendor is supposed to say "YUUUUCKKKKKK!" when the request is made originally. Does this mean I can order bacon from the Kosher deli near me too ... you know, if I start a Facebook campaign about it?

 

[purrfectpear]

That depends on whether the deli menu was crystal clear about bacon. There''s nothing worse than an ambigous deli menu, or maybe you just forgot to ask about the bacon before you bought the sandwich

 

[bgray]

Date: 3/6/2010 10:56:37 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 3/6/2010 10:50:33 PM

Author: Gypsy

Wink, I love your post. ''I do not want to own it.'' Exactly. On the one hand we have people shouting ''THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT'' even if they can''t read or speak. Or think. So a vendor has to source whatever they have decided they want ''An EGL-Europe K with I3 clarity because your dog told you that''s the best there is, SURE!'' And on the other... they are supposed to try to re-sell it once the frozen piece of spit is returned. Uh huh.

OR ... the vendor is supposed to say ''YUUUUCKKKKKK!'' when the request is made originally. Does this mean I can order bacon from the Kosher deli near me too ... you know, if I start a Facebook campaign about it?

or hold your breath til your face turns red and stamp your feet hard enough....

 

[decodelighted]

Can''t WAIT until the Pricescope listings start reading like:

1.57 G VS1 $15,000
1.50 F SI2 $12,999
Bob & Melanie, Married 3 years, He cheated $11,545

 

[bgray]

Date: 3/6/2010 11:10:12 PM
Author: decodelighted
Can''t WAIT until the Pricescope listings start reading like:


1.57 G VS1 $15,000

1.50 F SI2 $12,999

Bob & Melanie, Married 3 years, He cheated $11,545

and

John Doe: Bought 4/1/10. Returned 4/30/10. Reason code 5: didnt like it.

 

[Amethyste]

The job of a consumer is to inform itself so they can make an educated purchase. Reading the fine print is included in that "educated" purchase. Finding answers to cover your own a$$ is important as so much valued $$$ is going into this lifetime purchase.

Most vendors ( I mean reputable ones ) do have their return/exchange clearly listed on their website or store. If you don''t see one, don''t assume anything and inquire. If it is not to your liking, you have the choice to NOT buy from this vendor or ask them to modify their policy to appease your worried mind. There is always a choice.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I love the classic PS sha-zam coming out the play in this thread

 

[henearly89]

Let me explain the situation that has bothered me, in greater detail.

On February 23rd I made contact with Sheerah, a sales agent from WhiteFlash. I told her that I was interested in one of their ACA stones (let''s call this STONE#1) and asked a few questions about the appraisal process and some of their policies that I had read about on their website.

Several days went by and I began looking at a different diamond (STONE#2) on Blue Nile but was not very happy with the fact that they did not provide a buyback policy or Idealscope images.

That same day, I contacted a third highly regarded PS vendor (we will call them Vendor X) and asked them if they had any stones that matched the specifications of the original WhiteFlash stone (STONE#1). They did not but they informed me of the favorable policies that they had that Blue Nile did not and told me they could work with me to find a diamond of my liking. They made it very clear that if they eventually found a stone like STONE#1, I would have access to the favorable policies they originally described (what I didn''t understand at the time was that I would only have access to these policies because they chose to find a stone and bring it in-house, rather than fulfilling my request and doing the same).

Later that day I proceeded to call a fourth vendor, GOG, who told me they had access to STONE#2. They said it would cost about $150 more, but I would have access to all of their consumer friendly policies like their trade up and all of their analysis.

I then called up Vendor X. They too said they had access to STONE#2 that was listed and would be happy to sell it to me. They did not make it clear that this stone would be brought in and was therefore not eligible for some of their favorable policies. Moreover, because they had said earlier that they would find me a stone that they currently did not have and that that stone WOULD be eligible and I was not aware of the technicalities in the distinction between these two actions, I hung up the phone feeling very confident I would have access to all of their favorable policies.

I then called back WhiteFlash one more time to ask about purchasing STONE#2 from them. They said they would look into it. The following morning they said they too could get the stone for me. They said though, that the stone would not be one of their in-house ACA''s because it had fluorescence and therefore would not qualify as an ACA stone, regardless of the cut quality when they inspected it. As a result, the stone would not qualify for the same policies that come with purchasing an ACA stone. They directed me to their website, and noted the distinction between buying an in-house diamond and one they had to call in.

At that point I decided to go with Vendor X. I called them up and told them I would like to bring in their stone. I gave them all info and was about to hang up the phone when I asked them, just to be sure, to confirm the return policy for this stone if they got it for me. It was then and only then that they told me this stone was not an in-house diamond and was therefore was not eligible for the extended return. Surprised, I told her that the previous agent told me otherwise. She then explained the distinction between having them source a diamond and having them look for a diamond that THEY decided to bring in-house.

Needless to say I did not continue with this vendor because I was not happy with the policies for non in house stones. But this vendor did not inform me of this. In fact, they did enough to inform me otherwise that I felt assured I would be getting the favorable policies. They did not explain that distinction to me and I am confident the average consumer would not have understood either.

The Federal Government protects consumers in high involvement purchase decisions in many/most other industries. In other industries, the fine print has become so cumbersome that a reasonable person could not be expected to read and understand every word. There simply aren''t enough hours in the day to read all 130 pages of my bank account terms and conditions, all __ pages of my credit card terms and conditions, all ___ pages of my home insurance terms and conditions, ALL of which are eligible for CHANGES at any time. Buyer Beware has gotten out of hand. Retailers have a responsibility to communicate their fine print in a way that is easy for consumers to understand. Yes, the fine print in the diamond industry isn''t nearly as dense and burdensome, but no consumer should be expected to understand the difference between an in-house diamond, a diamond brought in-house, and a diamond only brought in-house because the consumer requested that specific diamond. I wonder if Kristie was confused by the same situation.

Wink, as per your policies, I''m sure they are fair. I''m sure you note the distinction to your consumer when they are not buying one of your diamonds. I''m sure you also tell your consumers that since you do not already have this diamond in house, it is not something you are going to want to be stuck with, and therefore, all sales are final. And 21 days is very very reasonable. I think you also make it clear to consumers if/when they are buying freshly cut diamonds, no? You seem to do a great job of communicating with your customers and should be commended as such. My problem is not with you. It is with vendors who have 10 day return policies and do not make the distinction clear to their consumers. My problem is with vendors who source diamonds that don''t meet their standards and sell them to consumers regardless without warning consumers they won''t be able to return the diamond because it does not meet your standards.

For some of us who are not buying the well supplied 1 carat, H, SI1''s, it takes months to find a diamond that meets our required specifications. The option to CHOOSE our vendor is not always present.

 

[brellymom]

So it seems that we agree that Return Policies should be easily available and clearly stated. What I get from reading posts thus far is there is some question as to the availability and clarity about return policies related to inhouse vs. externally sourced stones. So I ask myself - are we to assume that online purchasers understand the difference between outside and inhouse stones? (or should I say, reasonably assume?) I just don''t know. And if they do (or don''t), rather than calling for an x-day requirement, should vendors [just] more clearly state the definitions thereof, the different return policies (if any), and then ensure that purchasers know what they are getting when the pursue one or the other?

i haven''t decided, but I am not sure every purchaser of a stone online would know (retain, remember, "get") this difference. I think when making a purchase of this type, individuals don''t do it often enough to remember everything - HCA scores, color, clarity, cut, size, what she likes, etc and so on. Yes, the purchaser needs to do his/her due diligence and it is on them (buyer beware), and of course the vendor has realities also (time pressures from the cutter,etc), so maybe this should be less a call for a fixed number of days and more a suggestion that vendors increase information about the rules when stones are called in from the outside - in the interest of education and good customer relations.

 

[MissGotRocks]

I think that''s why it''s advised to find a vendor - whose policies you do understand and like - and then the stone. I don''t think a 30 day return policy would have helped you in the situations you described. I''m guessing you found a stone you liked (the ACA) and then tried to find a vendor that could find you another one just like it that would also have a longer than ten day return policy. Unfortunately, in that situation, no one had one in-house that you liked. You asked them if they could get a particular stone; they said yes that they could get it for you and would sell it to you. Communication is key here - did you tell them that you wanted to buy from them because you liked all of their return and trade-in policies? Probably not - at least not in the beginning. Is it fair to expect them to go through all of their policies with everyone everytime they call? I wonder how many calls they get a day with people just ''shopping around''? Perhaps if you had gotten ready to purchase the stone from one of the vendors, they would have then explained all the policies to you.

This is almost being presented as one of those ''gotcha'' situations where you are saying that consumers aren''t informed until after the purchase is made. I think that paints some of the vendors with a bad brush. We as consumers are responsible for being informed and knowing these facts before we pay the money too. No one likes getting or feeling stuck with something but when you are making a purchase this large, you can''t assume anything. Ask. Get it in writing.

I think your idea was a good one for discussion but after it was rolled around with consumers and a vendor, we all see how it just wouldn''t work. We would all like to have stones called in, be offered a rock bottom selling price, and have a good deal of time to make a decision before, as Wink says, ''it''s yours''. Unfortunately, this just isn''t possible or practical.

The ten day period on the ACA would have given you time to have it shipped to an appraiser, have his opinion bestowed upon it, then overnighted to you. I''m quite certain you would have still been in the ten day return period. There are a whole lot of people here who''ve done it many times.