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Calling all feminists...what next?

Thank you Nala I really appreciate what you have written above.

As I feminist it's sad to me that as developed Western nations any of us even have to select from candidates like Biden and Trump. I'd like to think that we have all evolved to want leaders that are better than this.
 
redwood66 said:
Would they? Do you think there's that much traffic because of it?
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Yes b/c the left wingers come here to beat up poor ole DF! ...;(
 
Dancing Fire said:
Yes b/c the left wingers came here to beat up poor ole DF! ...;(
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That's probably because "poor old DF" does a lot of defending of a President he supposedly didn't vote for. You guys could pick any decent conservative in politics and I'd have no further need to comment. You all seem to keep missing the point that I have a conservative government where I live, I didn't vote for them but they are doing a really great job during this health and economic crisis.

A mules left buttock would probably do a better, less narcissistic job than Trump has done. I get that you and many others here are conservatives, more than half my family, my husband etc are all conservatives. It's not you, or @redwood66 or @Queenie60 or anyone else here that is a conservative, or your beliefs or values, that I have an issue with - it is Trump.

Trump the man, Trump the person, Trump the President. He should NEVER have been allowed to be the leader of the free world and measuring his leadership on a global scale (because I don't live in the US and can do that pretty objectively) he is doing a terrible job. If you had a conservative leader doing a good job, like we do, I'd be more than happy to say that.
 
arkieb1 said:
A mules left buttock would probably do a better, less narcissistic job than Trump has done. I get that you and many others here are conservatives, more than half my family, my husband etc are all conservatives. It's not you, or @redwood66 or @Queenie60 or anyone else here that is a conservative, or your beliefs or values, that I have an issue with - it is Trump.

Trump the man, Trump the person, Trump the President. He should NEVER have been allowed to be the leader of the free world and measuring his leadership on a global scale (because I don't live in the US and can do that pretty objectively) he is doing a terrible job. If you had a conservative leader doing a good job, like we do, I'd be more than happy to say that.
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This. I married into a deeply religious, conservative family, and I get along just fine with my in-laws. They voted Republican until 2016, and they cannot fathom how other members of their family can support Trump. He is an affront to their values.
 
arkieb1 said:
That's probably because "poor old DF" does a lot of defending of a President he supposedly didn't vote for. You guys could pick any decent conservative in politics and I'd have no further need to comment. You all seem to keep missing the point that I have a conservative government where I live, I didn't vote for them but they are doing a really great job during this health and economic crisis.

A mules left buttock would probably do a better, less narcissistic job than Trump has done. I get that you and many others here are conservatives, more than half my family, my husband etc are all conservatives. It's not you, or @redwood66 or @Queenie60 or anyone else here that is a conservative, or your beliefs or values, that I have an issue with - it is Trump.

Trump the man, Trump the person, Trump the President. He should NEVER have been allowed to be the leader of the free world and measuring his leadership on a global scale (because I don't live in the US and can do that pretty objectively) he is doing a terrible job. If you had a conservative leader doing a good job, like we do, I'd be more than happy to say that.
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I get it @arkieb1 and I know you don't mean anything toward PSers.

I won't be admonished into keeping my opinion out of this topic because of other people's assumptions and misinterpretations of my posts. @nala was extremely brave to post this thread and I thank her for it.
 
redwood66 said:
I get it @arkieb1 and I know you don't mean anything toward PSers.

I won't be admonished into keeping my opinion out of this topic because of other people's assumptions and misinterpretations of my posts. @nala was extremely brave to post this thread and I thank her for it.
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Sometimes what you perceive as stating your opinion is actually lashing out at others. When called out on it, you come back with your "opinion" being "just as valid" and act as if the target of your nastiness is trying to squelch you somehow. When you responded to @Tekate, you said there was hypocrisy in her post and that she needed to go back and look at her former contributions. Did you state what you found hypocritical? Did you care to get involved in an actual discussion? There were many things you could have asked to understand why someone might find a difference between Ford/Kavanaugh and Reade/Biden. You could have stated YOUR opinions of how the issues were similar or different. You did none of that. You just lashed out with that "I can't help myself but get involved, so much correction needed here" attitude.
 
I'm not happy about Biden; and no I did not like Sanders either.
But Trump must be voted out of office.
It scares me though how many supporters he has still.
I once heard a speech of his (without seeing that it was Trump) and I truly thought it was somebody spoofing him.
 
Maria D said:
Sometimes what you perceive as stating your opinion is actually lashing out at others. When called out on it, you come back with your "opinion" being "just as valid" and act as if the target of your nastiness is trying to squelch you somehow. When you responded to @Tekate, you said there was hypocrisy in her post and that she needed to go back and look at her former contributions. Did you state what you found hypocritical? Did you care to get involved in an actual discussion? There were many things you could have asked to understand why someone might find a difference between Ford/Kavanaugh and Reade/Biden. You could have stated YOUR opinions of how the issues were similar or different. You did none of that. You just lashed out with that "I can't help myself but get involved, so much correction needed here" attitude.
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I am not sure what you are attempting to do here? This issue is so full of hypocrisy and I expected people to remember their own views as they were so verbose for so many weeks. That was obviously my mistake. @Tekate's issue it appears was not with the lack of discussion but that she assumed I was attacking her own experience which was not the case at all. My post was no different than her other argumentative posts to me. I am deeply sorry that she is upset.

I see no wiggle room when the BelieveAllWomen was such a prominent hashtag for so long. It was a stupid hashtag and doesn't allow for due process. The same due process that Biden supporters are calling for now. I'm sure Al Franken is wondering how Gillibrand and others can endorse Biden out of the same mouth as they called for Franken's resignation. Frankly I think Reade should have her day just like Blasey Ford. And Biden should speak up and be questioned about it. The whole MeToo movement has been submarined by that hashtag and that is a sad state of affairs for women.

ETA the 53 page thread.

Well, Now Brett Kavanaugh Can Face His Accuser

No one can, now, complain that Brett Kavanaugh is being denied his right to face his accuser. She has given an interview to "The Washington Post" and is on the record with her name and all her identifying information. And she certainly sounds like a credible woman, not to mention that the attack...
www.pricescope.com
 
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redwood66 said:
...I expected people to remember their own views as they were so verbose for so many weeks.

I do remember my own views and what I posted here. There is no hypocrisy to be cited.

@Tekate's issue it appears was not with the lack of discussion but that she assumed I was attacking her own experience which was not the case at all.

It didn't read to me that you were attacking her own experience. It read to me that you were calling her a hypocrite after a particularly vulnerable moment; harsh words with a harsh tone.

My post was no different than her other argumentative posts to me. I am deeply sorry that she is upset.

Yes, you both can be very argumentative. I believe there are very hurt feelings here because you have both come to think of each other as friends.

I see no wiggle room when the BelieveAllWomen was such a prominent hashtag for so long. It was a stupid hashtag and doesn't allow for due process.

I agree with you that it was a stupid hashtag and that due process is a must. But "see no wiggle room" because of a hashtag? It's a hashtag, not a law and I don't even think a majority opinion - which is that all women should be heard.

The same due process that Biden supporters are calling for now. I'm sure Al Franken is wondering how Gillibrand and others can endorse Biden out of the same mouth as they called for Franken's resignation. Frankly I think Reade should have her day just like Blasey Ford. And Biden should speak up and be questioned about it. The whole MeToo movement has been submarined by that hashtag and that is a sad state of affairs for women.

I agree with you on much of this.. I think Reade should have her day, but I think Biden should choose whatever strategy is best for him politically. Dems need to stop being political purists and start playing by the republican playbook if they want to win.
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I appreciate your comments. Thank you. By wiggle room I meant brushing off Reade after so much vitriol against Kavanaugh.
 
Maria D said:
I think Reade should have her day, but I think Biden should choose whatever strategy is best for him politically. Dems need to stop being political purists and start playing by the republican playbook if they want to win.
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This. I think Reade should have the same level of courtesy shown to her that was shown to Dr. Ford. That is to say, she can share her experience, and Democrats can dictate the terms and length of any FBI investigation into Biden. Then we’ll bring in Biden to scream about calendars and how much he loves beer.

Republicans set those standards with Kavanaugh and cannot expect Democrats to be held to a higher one.
 
nala said:
I’m a liberal. And I’m disappointed in The fact that Biden is our choice given that a woman is alleging that he sexually assaulted her. As a feminist, I can’t look the other way. I would not be true to my convictions. I would be a sell -out. No. Not gonna resort to if Trump backers can look the other way... because that would strip me of my essence of being a liberal.
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I haven’t always liked things you’ve posted, and we don’t agree politically; but I applaud you for standing by your principles and beliefs, and introspectively searching for an answer that allows you to cast your vote in alignment with your beliefs as well as challenging others who share your views to do the same. It’s admirable that you strive to stay true to yourself, even when the blowing wind appears counter to your otherwise intended path.
 
arkieb1 said:
That's probably because "poor old DF" does a lot of defending of a President he supposedly didn't vote for. You guys could pick any decent conservative in politics and I'd have no further need to comment. You all seem to keep missing the point that I have a conservative government where I live, I didn't vote for them but they are doing a really great job during this health and economic crisis.

A mules left buttock would probably do a better, less narcissistic job than Trump has done. I get that you and many others here are conservatives, more than half my family, my husband etc are all conservatives. It's not you, or @redwood66 or @Queenie60 or anyone else here that is a conservative, or your beliefs or values, that I have an issue with - it is Trump.

Trump the man, Trump the person, Trump the President. He should NEVER have been allowed to be the leader of the free world and measuring his leadership on a global scale (because I don't live in the US and can do that pretty objectively) he is doing a terrible job. If you had a conservative leader doing a good job, like we do, I'd be more than happy to say that.
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Bravo, @arkieb1!
 
soxfan said:
OMG DF you crack me up! LOL!
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And you are one of those left wingers!... :lol: Remember, you promise to bake me a "Trump cake" if he wins re-election in Nov...:bigsmile:
 
redwood66 said:
theintercept.com

New Evidence Supports Credibility of Tara Reade’s Allegation Against Biden

Reade’s mother called into the Larry King Live show in 1993 and discussed her daughter’s time with a “prominent senator.”
theintercept.com theintercept.com
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That is evidence that does support that Reade did in fact tell her mother that she was a victim of sexual harassment at her job with then Sen Biden. Reade is being heard as she should be. I don't know if that means she'll be believed, and even if she is, if this kind of thing even matters anymore. There are more than a handful of women who accuse Trump of sexual misconduct including sexual assault; he just calls them all liars and the public ignores it altogether.

It is intriguing to me how different things will be in the future for accusations of past events. A recording of a call in to the Larry King show is so happenstance. Decades from now the receipts will be abundant and precise: emails, tweets, texts, photos, videos... One can only hope that in the present and future, women are empowered to not wait decades to tell their stories. For me, that would be a true positive outcome of #metoo.
 
Maria D said:
It is intriguing to me how different things will be in the future for accusations of past events. A recording of a call in to the Larry King show is so happenstance. Decades from now the receipts will be abundant and precise: emails, tweets, texts, photos, videos... One can only hope that in the present and future, women are empowered to not wait decades to tell their stories. For me, that would be a true positive outcome of #metoo.
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I hope so @Maria D. I am hoping that the new evidence will make it hard for the legacy media to continue to ignore her.
 
redwood66 said:
I hope so @Maria D. I am hoping that the new evidence will make it hard for the legacy media to continue to ignore her.
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What do you want them to do? This is evidence that she told her mother she experienced sexual harassment, it's not earth shattering.

Does it bother you that "legacy" media do not give much voice to Trump's accusers? I can't even name one off the top of my head.

What if all the media did devote time and energy to all these accusations? What can we do with he said/she said information that is too old to be substantiated? This isn't quaint old times as when Lewinsky left a stain on her dress thus proving that she was intimate with Clinton. Back then, even consensual sex was considered illicit if it was extra-marital. Now it is considered completely inconsequential unless it is sexual assault, something very hard to prove even if it happened yesterday, never mind decades ago.
 
Maria D said:
What do you want them to do? This is evidence that she told her mother she experienced sexual harassment, it's not earth shattering.

Does it bother you that "legacy" media do not give much voice to Trump's accusers? I can't even name one off the top of my head.

What if all the media did devote time and energy to all these accusations? What can we do with he said/she said information that is too old to be substantiated? This isn't quaint old times as when Lewinsky left a stain on her dress thus proving that she was intimate with Clinton. Back then, even consensual sex was considered illicit if it was extra-marital. Now it is considered completely inconsequential unless it is sexual assault, something very hard to prove even if it happened yesterday, never mind decades ago.
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Oh I agree with all of that and said it in the Kavanaugh thread. I want women to be able to come forward when it happens. I want due process.

But what I also want is consistency from the MeToo Believeher crowd. Otherwise I have a hard time believing it was ever about the women.
 
redwood66 said:
Oh I agree with all of that and said it in the Kavanaugh thread. I want women to be able to come forward when it happens. I want due process.

But what I also want is consistency from the MeToo Believeher crowd. Otherwise I have a hard time believing it was ever about the women.
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Complete silence :silenced: from the left wing media. (the I believe her crowd)..:roll:they don't even bring up the Reade topic when interviewing Biden.
 
Dancing Fire said:
Complete silence :silenced: from the left wing media. (the I believe her crowd)..:roll:they don't even bring up the Reade topic when interviewing Biden.
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Not all. Rose McGowan is standing by her principles as well. Biden doesn't get asked and neither did any of the short list for VP on the Sunday shows.

Nice to see Cillizza at least saying Biden needs to speak up.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/27/politics/biden-tara-reade-senate/index.html

New person corroborating story on the record.

www.businessinsider.com

A former neighbor of Joe Biden's accuser Tara Reade has come forward to corroborate her sexual-assault account, saying Reade discussed the allegations in detail in the mid-1990s

Former Biden staffer Tara Reade says the Democratic presidential nominee sexually assaulted her in 1993. Reade's former neighbor tells Insider that Reade confided in her about the allegations at the time.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com
 
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She has pressed charges so there should be a trial, correct?
 
chrono said:
She has pressed charges so there should be a trial, correct?
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I think the LE agency has put the investigation into inactive status because of statute of limitations. I can't remember which article I read that said that and she knew it would happen.
 
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Dancing Fire said:
Complete silence :silenced: from the left wing media. (the I believe her crowd)..:roll:they don't even bring up the Reade topic when interviewing Biden.
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What do you think the right will do about this?
 
I believe Ms. Reade should be heard as well. Her accusations should be given the same examination as anyone else's. I do, however, agree with @Maria D that it has become clear that it is too difficult to "prosecute" such old accusations, regardless of the political party of the accused, and that the place to focus most of our attention is supporting people - male or female - who are enduring current or recent sexual harassment or assault in coming forward and taking action. I also agree with her that the situation with Biden is not the same as with Kavanaugh because Kavanaugh:1) lied under oath, and 2) was being appointed to a lifetime position, with no option for voters to weigh in on the matter. In addition to her reasoning, there were plenty of other viable options for that SC seat, even among conservative judges.

I am a liberal and a feminist. Barring new pertinent information, I will pinch my nose shut and vote for Biden. And I will hate every moment of it. It is disgusting and disgraceful that our only viable candidates for president are two men that have sexually assaulted women. How did we get here? Frankly, if the Republican candidate were just about anyone else but Trump and if the course of this country weren't so incredibly grave, I would vote third party and be fine with it. (I firmly believe we need more than two powerful parties nowadays, anyway.) But that is not the situation. And I am not and have never been a one-issue voter, as I don't believe that such complex matters can be reduced to that kind of black-and-white thinking. As important as my feminist values are to me, people dying outweighs people being sexually assaulted.

I don't believe I'm being a hypocrite, for several reasons. I believe that a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court is more serious and grants someone, frankly, more power than a four-year term in the presidency that any voter who wishes to gets to weigh in on, and therefore candidates for such should be held to a higher standard. (Also - he lied under oath.) I don't deny that the actions described in the accusations against Biden are as heinous and unacceptable as those against Kavanaugh or Trump or anyone else. But these are my options. No third-party candidate has any chance of winning at this time, although I hope that changes in the future. The future of this nation at such a critical time will be in the hands of one or the other of two assaulters, so I have to put on my big-girl panties, look at everything else about them, and make the choice as to which will be better for the nation in other ways, and that is clearly Biden.
 
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